Resource [SPOILERS] Early VGC 2017 Interesting Pokemon

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So with the datamining last night, a number of Pokemon sprites were left unscrubbed out of the game and make for what is very likely the Alolan Pokedex. I decided to breeze through the dex and try to point out all the interesting

Please let me know if I made any mistakes or neglected something! I'm happy to correct them and edit other interesting Pokemon onto this list.

I made a number of assumptions here, but I think most of them can be grounded in previous generational transitions:

  • The TM List will remain relatively the same
  • Typical Move tutor exclusive attacks (Icy Wind, Helping Hand, Tailwind, Hyper Voice) will remain move tutor exclusive and unavailable for SuMo.
  • Non-Alolan forms of Alolan Pokemon are allowed, even if they require Pokemon Bank transfer
  • All Pokemon have access to their hidden abilities, which should be true once Pokemon Bank relaunches in January.
  • UB's are probably usable as Pokemon, but neglected for now
(personally I hope those first two assumptions are wrong and the TM list gets revamped to include some very deserving moves as TMs but that's irrelevant)

There will no doubt be tons of movepool additions in SuMo. Once we learn of those, I'll slap them on here too.

Regarding new Pokemon and Alolan formes:
  • I was a little iffy on purely alolan lines inheriting their non-alolan line's TMs and Egg moves and did not assume they obtained those moves.
  • Families that go from Non-Alolan -> Alolan probably keep the same egg moves and pre evo tms, but I neglected to assume this for now just in case.

What we can presume to be the Alolan Dex so far consists of:
Butterfree
Raticate + Alolan Raticate
Fearow
Pikachu + Raichu + Alolan Raichu
Sandslash + Alolan Sandslash
Clefairy + Clefable
Ninetales + Alolan Ninetales
Wigglytuff
Crobat
Parasect
Dugrtio + Alolan Dugtrio
Persian + Alolan Persian
Golduck
Primape
Arcanine
Poliwrath + Politoed
Alakazam
Machamp
Tentacruel
Golem + Alolan Golem
Slowbro + Slowking
Magneton + Magnezone
Muk + Alolan Muk
Cloyster
Gengar
Hypno
Exeggutor + Alolan Exeggutor
Marowak + Alolan Marowak
Chansey + Blissey
Kangaskhan
Seaking
Staryu
Scyther + Scizor
Electivire
Magmortar
Pinsir
Tauros
Gyarados
Lapras
Ditto
Every Eevee Evolution
Porygon2 + Porygon Z
Aerodactyle
Snorlax
Dragonite

Ledian
Ariados
Lanturn
Sudowoodo
Murkrow + Honchkrow
Misdreavous + Mismagius
Granbull
Weavile
Corsola
Delibird
Skarmory
Porgyon2
Smeargle
Miltank

Pelliper
Masquerain
Hariyama
Probopass
Sableye
Sharpedo
Wailord
Torkoal
Spinda
Flygon
Whiscash
Milotic
Castform
Absol
Glalie + Froslass
Relicanth
Luvdisc
Salamence
Metagross

Rampardos
Bastiodon
Gastrodon
Drifblim
Garchomp
Lucario
Lumineon

Stoutland
Gigalith
Whimsicott
Lilligant
Krookodile
Carracosta
Archeops
Garbodor
Vanilluxe
Emolga
Alomamola
Braviary
Mandibuzz

Talonflame
Pangoro
Carbink
Goodra
Klefki
Trevenant

Rowlett2
Litten2
Popplio2
Pikipek2
Gumshoos
Charjabug + Vikavolt
Crabrawler2
Oricorio x4
Ribombee
Lycanroc Day + Lycanroc Night
Wishiwashi
Unnamed Urchin Pokemon
Mudsdale
Unnamed Water Skidder Pokemon
Florantis
Morelull2
Salandit2
Bewear
Tsareena
Comfey
Oranguru
Passimean
Wimpod2
Pallosand
Pyukumuku
Silvally
Minior
Komala
Turtonator
Togedemaru
Mimikyu
Bruxish
Drampa
Unnamed Anchor Pokemon
Komo-o
Tapu Koko
Unnamed Pink Tapu
Unnamed Red Tapu
Unnamed Purple Tapu


Interesting Pokemon out of these:

Intimidate:
Arcanine
Tauros
Gyarados
Granbull
Masquerain
Salamence
Stoutland
Krookodile

Follow Me:
Clefairy
Clefable
Lucario

Rage Powder:
Butterfree
Parasect
Ariados

Fake Out:
Raichu
Persian
Kangaskhan
Weavile
Hariyama
Sableye
Spinda

Auto-set Weather and Terrains:
Ninetales (Sun)
Politoed (Rain)
Tapu Koko (Electric Terrain)
Tapu Lele (Psychic Terrain)
Tapu Bulu (Grassy Terrain)
Tapu Fini (Misty Terrain)

Helping Hand
Arcanine
All Eeveelutions
Chansey
Blissey
Hariyama
Stoutland
Whimsicott
Lilligant
Alomamola


Trick Room:
Alakazam
Slobro
Slowking
Gengar
Hypno
Exeggutor
Starmie
Porygon2
Porygon Z
Espeon
Misdreavus
Mismagius
Spinda
Kecleon
Whimsicott
Carbink
Trevenant

Tailwind:
Butterfree
Aerodactyl
Ledian
Murkrow
Honchkrow
Pelliper
Drifblim
Whimsicott
Rufflet
Mandibuzz
Talonflame

Icy Wind:
Glaceon
Weavile
Delibird
Spinda
Glalie
Froslass
Vaniluxe

Quick Guard:
Machamp
Crobat
Scizor
Lucario
Archeops
Talonflame
Pangoro

Wide Guard:
Parasect
Machamp
Golem
Aerodactyl
Pelliper
Hariyama
Probopass
Bastiodon
Gigalith
Carracosta
Alomomola

Quick Guard-esc Abilities:
Bruxish
Tsareena

Lightning Rod
Raichu
Marowak
Alolan Marowak
Seaking
Togedemaru

Storm Dragin
Gastrodon
Lumineon

Swift Swim
Golduck
Poliwrath
Seaking
Lumineon
Carracosta
Chlorophyll
Exeggutor
Leafeon
Whimsicott
Lilligant

Surge Surfer
Alolan Raichu

Prankster:
Murkrow
Sableye
Whisicott
Klefki

Highly Accurate Sleep:
Butterfree (Compoundeyes Sleep Powder)
Parasect (Spore)
Smeargle (Dark Void)

Strong Priority:
Scizor
Metagross
Talonflame

Defiant / Competitive:
Wigglytuff
Primape
Milotic
Bravairy

Trapping
Dugtrio

Every Move I just posted:
Smeargle

Other Interesting Pokemon:
Charjabug: Battery
Passimean: Receiver
Oranguru: Instruct
Oricorio: Dancer

Strong Pokemon from Past Formats:
Raichu
Clefairy
Clefable
Crobat
Arcanine
Politoed
Gengar
Scizor
Gyarados
Smeargle
Hariyama
Sableye
Miltoic
Salamence
Metagross
Gastrodon
Garchomp
Lucario
Whimsicott
Talonflame

Pokemon that take minor to major hits if Move Tutors are Absent:
Politoed (Icy Wind, Helping Hand)
Scizor (Bug Bite, Superpower)
Sylveon (Hyper Voice)

What's there to talk about?
  • Everything hits a lot weaker than what we saw in 2014 and 2015 with the lack of Megas. What offensive powerhouses stand out? The most prominent I see at the moment are Pokemon like Garchomp and Talonflame.
  • The pool of redirection is extremely small. Clefable seems to be the best around. Can any of the others contend?
  • Fake Out users have some nice variety to them.
  • Intimidate mons have decent variety. Salamence, Gyarados and Arcanine stick out the most with other interesting Pokemon like Granbull, Stoutland, and Krookodile also looking solid.
  • What Pokemon seem to be the most powerful at a glance? Talonflame, Garchomp, Metagross, and Salamence all really seem to like the condensed field.
  • Smeargle's back and that means Dark Void's back once Bank launches if the move isn't outright banned like in 2012 or 2013. Will it settle back down to 2014 and 2015 usage or will its popularity in 2016 carry over somewhat into the next year? Personally, I'm skeptical it'll hold on too much without gigantic cover legendaries that more than make up for Smeargle's non existent offensive presence.
 
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God help us all. Talonflame has lost its four best answers (Heatran, Rotom-A, Thundurus-I and Landorus-T). ._.

EDIT: if that list is correct and complete

EDIT2: I am not saying that CHALK being dead or Heatran + genies being gone is a bad thing. The point is, neither is Talonflame.
 
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Adamant Zoroark

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God help us all. Talonflame has lost its four best answers (Heatran, Rotom-A, Thundurus-I and Landorus-T). ._.

EDIT: if that list is correct and complete

EDIT2: I am not saying that CHALK being dead or Heatran + genies being gone is a bad thing. The point is, neither is Talonflame.
Bruxish (Dazzling) and Lycanroc (Accelerock) exist now though, and I'm sure Aerodactyl and Minior will be seeing use as well just because of Talonflame. Lanturn might even end up being popular as a (weak and Wisp-less) Rotom-W substitute specifically for Talonflame.
 
I'm predicting Sinnoh Classic will be a reasonable starting place for this. They seem to share a lot of similarities, with similar threat lists in terms of old Pokemon, and Sinnoh Classic being the last non-Mega doubles format we've had.

That means strong Trick Room and Intimidate being less of a presence. Definitely looking at Porygon2, Lapras and Snorlax for early testing, though something will need to deal with Hariyama. They all benefit from the lack of ridiculous offense a format without Megas brings. All of the new Tapu Koko-style Pokemon should be interesting, especially if they come with any kind of speed control; if there's a reason to war over terrains, all the more reason to look to slow builds and Trick Room options. Clefairy should still be good as well, though teams will have to pick between that and Porygon2. Will also be looking at Crobat, who's as useful a tool as it was in '16, with Haze here perhaps being useful against Minimizers abusing the new time system, rather than boosting Xerneas.

God help us all. Talonflame has lost its four best answers (Heatran, Rotom-A, Thundurus-I and Landorus-T). ._.
While I'd actually be happy to see Talonflame again, I'm not convinced it'll be a ton more useful than it was in '15, especially if bulky Trick Room becomes prominent. There are a good number of priority blockers, both through abilities and good Quick-Guarders that can fit onto a number of teams without threat of high damage from megas, Tapu Koko is likely to show up a lot, and things like Porygon2 and Lapras really couldn't care less about it.

Re: Smeargle: I don't see it having a huge place in the format unless there's something to as immediately capitalize on sleep turns for a game-winning setup as there was in '16, which was the whole reason its usage shot up there. Not to mention at least one Pokemon in the format carries automatic Electric Terrain.

One more thought: There is not a strong field for redirection. Clefairy and Clefable are the only viable long-term options, whereas Smeargle and Lucario can be useful for getting one turn of setup and providing field pressure should they choose not to redirect (Dark Void, Final Gambit, etc.). In all, it seems to make single-target-only attackers much safer options than they sometimes are.

I can't stress enough how much this looks like the Sinnoh Classic outside of the new Pokemon. Very few relevant 'mons from Gens 5 and 6 were kept, but many of the best from Generations 1, 3 and 4 are still present, set to shine in another format without Megas.
 
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Fireburn

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I don't really play VGC so take my opinions with a grain of salt, but this list of Pokemon seems intriguing and I wanted to comment on a couple things.

I think TapuToed teams might have potential. Weather and Electric Terrain stack, so Tapu Koko and other Electrics (Alolan Raichu perhaps?) would enjoy flinging around perfectly accurate, 50% stronger Thunders complemented by Water-types tossing out rain-boosted attacks. Rain would be relatively easy to maintain since Politoed's only competition for autoweather is Ninetales (lol), and Tapu Koko's typing lends itself towards combating things that might otherwise bother Rain/Thunder spam (looking mostly at Talonflame and Garchomp/Goodra). Other natural enemies of Water/Electric such as Ferrothorn are also absent. However, the strategy largely depends on Tapu Koko getting good stats, and there is admittedly a problem with the Swift Swimmer selection when Golduck and Poliwrath are the best options. Gastrodon is also both a blessing and a curse, since it helps against Trick Room and opposing Tapus but kind of walls the strategy itself. Could be fun to play with though!

I think Tapu Koko in general will be amazing, assuming it has good stats. Its offensive STAB coverage is extremely threatening to a lot of the usual standards and the boost from Electric Terrain both amps up its offensive potential and is useful defensively for ruining Smeargle's day. Tapu Koko's mere existence makes Smeargle a riskier pick in general.

I'm also really hoping Oranguru has decent stats since Instruct seems like it has a ton of potential. Having Gyarados or Salamence DD (or Kanga PuP if it manages to get it by some other method) twice in a single turn sounds extremely terrifying. I also wonder if you could target enemy Pokemon with Instruct - I could see Oranguru potentially nullifying Trick Room setups by forcing the enemy to use it twice, for example.

Really interested to see how this meta develops.
 

Pyritie

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I'm also really hoping Oranguru has decent stats since Instruct seems like it has a ton of potential. Having Gyarados or Salamence DD (or Kanga PuP if it manages to get it by some other method) twice in a single turn sounds extremely terrifying. I also wonder if you could target enemy Pokemon with Instruct - I could see Oranguru potentially nullifying Trick Room setups by forcing the enemy to use it twice, for example.

Really interested to see how this meta develops.
I'm curious about how Instruct works. If it requires the targeted pokemon to have already used a move in the same turn, then it will be completely useless for reversing trick room like you described. On the other hand, if you can use it to make a pokemon use a move that they used in the previous turn, I imagine it'll be treated like Encore where trick room setters will just switch out after they set it.
 
Just a little nitpick, but you forgot Salamence on the list of Intimidaters (though you did mention it later at the end of the post).

On the topic of Intimidaters, I noticed that Milotic has a good matchup versus all of the ones that have been viable in previous years (Arcanine, Gyarados, Salamence, Krookodile). Gyarados is the only one with a decent matchup, and it still doesn't like Scald burns. Unless some Gen 7 mon gets Intimidate as a hidden ability, or stuff like Granbull get some huge buff, it looks like Milotic's going to be a staple on teams with a lot of physical attacks.

Regarding redirection, I know this is basically speculation, but I'd be shocked if the new mushroom Pokemon doesn't get Rage Powder (and Spore cough). Grass/Fairy typing with Rage Powder isn't bad, though just like the Clefs, there's the glaring Steel and Poison weakness.

I'd guess that the terrain effects are going to be big this year. Can't say much about them right now with our limited information, but I can imagine the Island Deities finding their way onto teams just for their legendary-caliber stats and terrain side-effects. Mystic Terrain and the new Psychic Terrain stand out to me as the most general purpose, with Mystic Terrain acting as a weaker-Safeguard that blocks all but confusion for grounded mons, and Psychic Terrain blocking priority for set-up sweepers (Salamence, Gyarados, and Oricorio might be fun).
 
so what's the deal with non-alola forms of alola pokemon (ninetales, dugtrio, etc)

are they legal for VGC '17 and if so how do we obtain them? do they require being bred from a non-alolan parent?
 
oh hey, idk how i missed this.
Right now i'm contemplating a few core ideas with what we have knowledge of (Gastrodon/Milotic and Arcanine/Talonflame/Scizor for one. yes, kinda ambiguous.) to start with.
 
Have we forgotten about z-moves?
Talonflame plus z-move equals instant flying death to anything.
God help us all
 
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Demantoid

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Have we forgotten about z-moves?
Talonflame plus z-move equals instant flying death to anything.
God help us all
If it uses a Z-move with Brave Bird from what we've seen it would have around 200 BP which isn't too much stronger than a banded Brave Bird. It would also leave it with fairly weak attacks after. Additionally, Bruxish and Tsareena have abilities blocking priority attacks, and there's a new terrain that prevents priority attacks that one of the Rapid will probably have an ability for.
 
so what's the deal with non-alola forms of alola pokemon (ninetales, dugtrio, etc)

are they legal for VGC '17 and if so how do we obtain them? do they require being bred from a non-alolan parent?
All Pokemon in VGC 2017 must originate in the the Alola Region so I doubt you will be able to get any of their non alolan forms, at least pre-bank. After bank, we will have to see how breeding and evolution mechanics play out. My assumption that Kanto Raichu, Marowak, and Exeggutor will illegal since Exeggucute, Cubone, and Pikachu will just evolve into their Alolan forms, but that's an assumption.
 
I haven't heard any chatter about the paralyze nerf now dropping speed to half. I feel like that is a game changer in and of itself.
Not necessarily a game changer but it does affect things. The main thing I see is Timid Scarf Mence still has a speed of 125 after paralysis so that might be an EV benchmark to reach for the middling speed tiers.
 
If it uses a Z-move with Brave Bird from what we've seen it would have around 200 BP which isn't too much stronger than a banded Brave Bird. It would also leave it with fairly weak attacks after. Additionally, Bruxish and Tsareena have abilities blocking priority attacks, and there's a new terrain that prevents priority attacks that one of the Rapid will probably have an ability for.
I see what you're going at.
Still, it will be unbelievably powerful, and it will have all the support moves left over. But you're right, it's far better to use the z crystal on something like Salamence.
 
I see what you're going at.
Still, it will be unbelievably powerful, and it will have all the support moves left over. But you're right, it's far better to use the z crystal on something like Salamence.
Speaking of which, what Pokemon do you expect people to be giving their Z Crystal to? Right now I'm expecting Metagross, Salamence, Garchomp, Scizor, Hariyama, are there any others I'm missing?
 

Jibaku

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I think that can depend on whether Z moves copy negative side effects or not. Sylveon @ Normalium Z with Hyper Beam can blow up stuff if the Z move doesn't copy the recharge (and then it can Hyper Beam something else later before it dies).

I'm also thinking Z moves can be used for coverage. Porygon2 looks hard to KO and I wouldn't be surprised if people started running Fighting Z move on stuff to break it down.

At some point in the format there'll probably be people trying to cheese certain watermons with Grassium Z Solarbeam Talonflame...
 

Pyritie

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I think that can depend on whether Z moves copy negative side effects or not. Sylveon @ Normalium Z with Hyper Beam can blow up stuff if the Z move doesn't copy the recharge (and then it can Hyper Beam something else later before it dies).
Moves like draco meteor and overheat would also be popular choices if the Z move doesn't still inflict the -2 SpA drop.
 
You should probably add a list for helping hand. I personally feel got a nerd considering that Kingdra and Ludicolo are banned, and all the other ones look really lackluster, exception of poliwrath and maybe Carracosta

EDIT: Leech Life as a TM? And I thought incinerate was bad...
 
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Figuring out how Z-moves work is the huge X-Factor in figuring out what will be good in this meta imo since without megas, you're going to want a Z-crystal holder or two around just to counter knock off regardless. Who gets that slot depends on how all of these interactions work. If you can pixilate a Z move Sylveon would obviously be amazing for it, Archeops would also love a 100+ BP boost and recoil removed from his Head Smash.

Another huge factor will be how well Bruxish/Lycanrock can actually deal with Talonflame (sadly I think it's fair to assume Tsareena will be trash as a mono-grass physical attacker). It's possible that Talonflame is now in the trash heap, or possible that gamefreak has just committed a grave mistake by including it in the Alolan dex. I think the latter is probably more likely. I think there's definitely a 'big four' of Chomp/Mence/Metagross/Talonflame that will be everywhere barring some huge change introduced by new pokemon. Weavile matches up fairly well against 3 of those and also has the fastest fake out in the meta plus icy wind for speed control, so I can definitely see it being popular as well (though under electric terrain, raichu's fake out will be faster).

Milotic will be good just because Salamence will doubtlessly be a major threat, given how stupid dragon gem draco meteor was I can definitely see him being a major Z-move threat. Clefable and Sylveon will both be good counters to this that weren't around/weren't immune back in the dragon gem days though. I think defensive playstyles will indeed be more viable now that megas aren't around since it's easier to work around one super-powerful move than one super-powerful pokemon. You just have to figure out which Z-moves can pick apart your defensive core and have something to switch into them with.

As several people have said, Porygon2 and pure normal bulky pokemon in general are good since you can work around fighting type Z moves with ghost types. Normal/Ghost cores might work pretty well, though the ghost type selection is pretty slim, pretty much just Gengar, Mismagius and Palossand. Makes me wonder if the water shuriken smeargle+weakness policy palossand might be more than a meme since porygon2 will be quite strong as a trick room setter (assuming palossand is slow).
 

Pocket

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Do we know if there is a limit to how many Z crystals a team can hold? Just like a mega stone, it seems like the trainer needs to also be holding a Z crystal bracelet, which makes me think that this Z crystal move may only be limited to one mon per team.
 
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