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Resource [SPOILERS] Early VGC 2017 Interesting Pokemon
- Thread starter TheMantyke
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You can only use a Z-Move once per battle, but technically speaking, it is possible to hold more than one z-crystal; though it would be a waste of an item slot.
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In the demo I gave every single one of my team members an electrium Z to hold. Though I don't know how it works with item clause -- I assume every team member would need to at least hold a different z crystal.
They all share the same Z move. I'm guessing it'll replace Nature's Madness, another move they all share.
Make's sense. It always deals damage equal to 75% of the targets remaining health so it isn't broken.
No, I'd rather have my Z Move actually be able to knock something out. If they end up being support mons, then an item such as Sitrus, Leftovers, Mental Herb, etc would be more beneficial. Even if they were offensive, I'd rather just give them any of the other Z moves than Guardian of Alola.
I think the Tapu Z-move is actually pretty cool. It probably won't be as immediately useful as other Z-moves, but once the format slows down and gets fatter like it always does, I'd expect it to get usage. It maims anything without a Sitrus Berry to the point where any partner with strong spread is picking up the knockout. Things get hairier with a Sitrus since it just becomes basically a normal Super Fang at that point, but taking huge chunks out of bulky stuff is pretty cool, I feel. Plus, it seems fairly simple to fit on a moveset at this point just between Primary-type STAB / Fairy STAB / Nature's Madness / Protect. Let's see if there's something else those mons really want in that third slot.
Added the new Tapus and Helping Hand users to the list, don't know how I managed to overlook HH of all things writing this.
Added the new Tapus and Helping Hand users to the list, don't know how I managed to overlook HH of all things writing this.
So when Bank returns we can breed Alolan dex Pokémon with previous gen Pokémon to get the moves we want? But still can't use previous gen mons?
Dark Void is dead. It's over. Poor Darkrai...
Also Incineroar is another Intimidate mon which is cool since it gets Fake Out except it's base 60 Speed...
Also Incineroar is another Intimidate mon which is cool since it gets Fake Out except it's base 60 Speed...
That hasn't stopped hitmontop!
Anyway here's some more info from the leaks. I'll only list things that look competitively useful. Video is here:
78/107/75/100/100/70
HA: Long Reach -- its moves that make contact no longer do so (so it won't get iron barbs damage etc)
Egg moves: Curse, Haze, Baton Pass, Defog
Spirit Shackle (80 BP physical ghost move, traps)
U-turn
Sucker Punch
Brave Bird
Leaf Blade
Synthesis
Nasty Plot
Light Screen
Roost
Safeguard
Solar Beam
Smack Down
Shadow Ball
Facade
Low Sweep
Energy Ball
Acrobatics
Shadow Claw
Swords Dance
Grass Knot
Nature Power
HA: Long Reach -- its moves that make contact no longer do so (so it won't get iron barbs damage etc)
Egg moves: Curse, Haze, Baton Pass, Defog
Spirit Shackle (80 BP physical ghost move, traps)
U-turn
Sucker Punch
Brave Bird
Leaf Blade
Synthesis
Nasty Plot
Light Screen
Roost
Safeguard
Solar Beam
Smack Down
Shadow Ball
Facade
Low Sweep
Energy Ball
Acrobatics
Shadow Claw
Swords Dance
Grass Knot
Nature Power
95/115/90/80/90/60
HA: Intimidate
Egg moves: Nasty Plot, Crunch, Fake Out, Revenge, Heat Wave
Darkest Lariat (85 BP physical dark move, ignores target's stat changes)
Bulk Up
Throat Chop (80 BP physical dark move, prevents target from using sound moves for two turns)
Roar
Flamethrower
Flare Blitz
Cross Chop
Outrage
Taunt
Earthquake
Leech Life (buffed to 80 BP)
Brick Break
Fire Blast
Torment
Facade
Flame Charge
Low Sweep
Overheat
Focus Blast
Brutal Swing (60 BP physical dark move, "the user swings its body around violently to inflict damage on everything in its vicinity")
Quash
Will-o-wisp
Acrobatics
Shadow Claw
Swords Dance
Bulldoze
U-turn
Snarl
Dark pulse
HA: Intimidate
Egg moves: Nasty Plot, Crunch, Fake Out, Revenge, Heat Wave
Darkest Lariat (85 BP physical dark move, ignores target's stat changes)
Bulk Up
Throat Chop (80 BP physical dark move, prevents target from using sound moves for two turns)
Roar
Flamethrower
Flare Blitz
Cross Chop
Outrage
Taunt
Earthquake
Leech Life (buffed to 80 BP)
Brick Break
Fire Blast
Torment
Facade
Flame Charge
Low Sweep
Overheat
Focus Blast
Brutal Swing (60 BP physical dark move, "the user swings its body around violently to inflict damage on everything in its vicinity")
Quash
Will-o-wisp
Acrobatics
Shadow Claw
Swords Dance
Bulldoze
U-turn
Snarl
Dark pulse
80/74/74/126/116/60
HA: Liquid Voice - All sound based moves become water-type moves
Egg moves: Charm, Perish Song
Sparkling Aria (90 BP special water move, cures burns, is probably sound based)
Aqua Jet
Encore
Sing
Moonblast
Hydro Pump
Misty Terrain
Ice Beam
Blizzard
Hyper Voice
Psychic
Shadow Ball
Reflect
Light Screen
Energy Ball
Scald
Acrobatics
Psych Up
Surf
Waterfall
Dazzling Gleam
HA: Liquid Voice - All sound based moves become water-type moves
Egg moves: Charm, Perish Song
Sparkling Aria (90 BP special water move, cures burns, is probably sound based)
Aqua Jet
Encore
Sing
Moonblast
Hydro Pump
Misty Terrain
Ice Beam
Blizzard
Hyper Voice
Psychic
Shadow Ball
Reflect
Light Screen
Energy Ball
Scald
Acrobatics
Psych Up
Surf
Waterfall
Dazzling Gleam
Just some initial thoughts on the starters. I'm going to assume that tutor moves aren't in Sun/Moon at the moment, just like how they've never been in the flagship games of any gen.
On their own, Primarina and Incineroar definitely look viable for VGC. Primarina has a Sylveon vibe going for it with its great special bulk and special attack, and its ability, Liquid Voice, gives it Water STAB on Hyper Voice (is it confirmed whether it also gives the 1.3x boost yet?). I can see it being a good spread-attacker throwing off Hyper Voices and Dazzling Gleams, and Water/Fairy with 80/74/116 defenses gives it good switch-in opportunities. It also gets Perish Song for Perish Trap teams and support options in dual screens and Encore. Honestly, Primarina looks like a solid mon; it's viability will probably depend on whether Tapu Fini, the Water/Fairy Tapu, outclasses it.
Incineroar is looking to be a weird hybrid of Arcanine and Scrafty. It gets Fake Out, Intimidate, decent 95/90/90 defensive stats, and a Fire typing to avoid burns, though the Dark typing makes it neutral to Fairy. It gets Snarl, WoW, Taunt, and U-Turn for support options too. And it can still hit decently hard with that 115 attack backed by Flare Blitz. Sadly, no Knock Off though until move tutors come back. Base 60 speed is also great for Trick Room. Funnily enough, its pre-evolve, Torracat, has base 90 speed, so someone's probably going to meme with Torracat + Eviolite as a poor man's Arcanine with Fake Out.
I don't know how I feel about Decidueye. It honestly looks more like a singles mon, and even then, medicore at best due to that sucky base 70 speed. Spirit Shackle has a single-target Mean Look effect, which might work for Perish Trap. 78/75/100 defenses are pretty shoddy though. I'm not expecting to see this much.
On their own, Primarina and Incineroar definitely look viable for VGC. Primarina has a Sylveon vibe going for it with its great special bulk and special attack, and its ability, Liquid Voice, gives it Water STAB on Hyper Voice (is it confirmed whether it also gives the 1.3x boost yet?). I can see it being a good spread-attacker throwing off Hyper Voices and Dazzling Gleams, and Water/Fairy with 80/74/116 defenses gives it good switch-in opportunities. It also gets Perish Song for Perish Trap teams and support options in dual screens and Encore. Honestly, Primarina looks like a solid mon; it's viability will probably depend on whether Tapu Fini, the Water/Fairy Tapu, outclasses it.
Incineroar is looking to be a weird hybrid of Arcanine and Scrafty. It gets Fake Out, Intimidate, decent 95/90/90 defensive stats, and a Fire typing to avoid burns, though the Dark typing makes it neutral to Fairy. It gets Snarl, WoW, Taunt, and U-Turn for support options too. And it can still hit decently hard with that 115 attack backed by Flare Blitz. Sadly, no Knock Off though until move tutors come back. Base 60 speed is also great for Trick Room. Funnily enough, its pre-evolve, Torracat, has base 90 speed, so someone's probably going to meme with Torracat + Eviolite as a poor man's Arcanine with Fake Out.
I don't know how I feel about Decidueye. It honestly looks more like a singles mon, and even then, medicore at best due to that sucky base 70 speed. Spirit Shackle has a single-target Mean Look effect, which might work for Perish Trap. 78/75/100 defenses are pretty shoddy though. I'm not expecting to see this much.
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Really?! Hell yes! I actually like Inceniroar and was interested in using this guy. He may be extremely good in Trick Room especially against anything that opposes setters.
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looking at these base stats, i think it's pretty safe to say that the ultra beasts are going to be banned. they're just crazy strong. as for the island guardians, they'll probably be legal. tapu koko and tapu lulu look especially promising from a competitive standpoint. with its high speed and unique typing, tapu koko will be able to check a good handful of top threats such as salamence, garchomp, talonflame, and others. tapu lulu, on the other hand, just has crazy high special attack and special defense, although it has a middling speed tier. since psychic-types typically get great movepools, it may be able to carve a niche out for itself as a supportive pokemon with some form of speed control (trick room, thunder wave, etc.) and its solid fairy/psychic typing.
Preliminary thoughts:
- Primarina is probably the best starter, going by stats. It can hit very hard and with its HA gets a very nice spread move option, even if it doesn't boost the damage. Even then, it should do fine without being HA.
- Incineroar is basically a slower, slightly bulkier and harder hitting Arcanine that trades Extremespeed for Fake Out. I would say this may actually wind up in a more supportive role than an attacking one, although it does rely on its HA for viability.
- Not sure how to feel on Decedueye, but I do think it has one of the strongest Sucker Punches in the format, so it does have that. Spirit Shackle could help on Perish Trap, but I am not sure how effective the ability to lock a single Pokemon onto the battlefield could be... but it may have the stats to help it do that.
- Alolan Ninetales getting access to Icy Wind is pretty neat. Alolan Ninetales (109 base speed) being faster than Garchomp (102 base speed) is also pretty Neat. Guess what I will be trying out first?
- Does Spotlight mean you can cause your opponent to attack their Own Pokemon? If so, then that's pretty OP since it has Priority. If not... redirect into Baneful Bunker.
- Speaking of... Toxapex seems like a more Annoying Ferrothorn. It has higher defenses (but a lower HP) and a pretty good defensive typing, and both Recover and Regenerator. It also has access to Wide Guard, at the expense of Speed Control.
- Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele are still the most likely to see play. May have to double check, but Tapu Fini may have good enough support options to warrant third (at least, with 70/115/130 bulk it can survive some stuff. And 95 base attack isn't too shabby.) and Tapu Bulu is likely last. Granted, it does have some good Bulk and a great base 130 attack, so it isn't all bad.
- Tapu Koko more specifically is one of the faster Pokemon in the Meta with a 130 base speed, although trollfreak gave it a higher attack than special attack. Even then, 95 SpA isnt too shabby and it gets a boost to electric attacks thanks to its terrain. It can probably bring the pain, especially in the rain.
- Tapu Lele on the other hand has a pretty massive SpA stat, high SpDef, and a speed that should still be higher than a lot of things in the meta. Plus an immunity to Priority and a terrain that boosts its Psychic STAB attacks. Likely to be one of the Pokemon to prepare for, it does have a base 75 Defense, so there's a usable way to deal with it.
- Shiitonic, to nobody's surprise, is the new Amoonguss.
- Talonflame is dead, and Gengar is mostly dead.
- Silvally has all base 95 stats and no recovery or priority moves. Multi-Attack is base 90 power though... this is actually one of the better case scenarios, so physical sets may work out really well? It also gets pretty much nothing for support moves, and most of the coverage seeps special based. I'm not sure if mini-arceus has anywhere near the movepool it would most desire, but it can still probably work with it.
- Minior is actually pretty good. Makes me wonder how the ability works with a Sitrus, but the fact that it doubles its speed once its ability Procs is pretty shiny. It also gets Shell Smash and can have a set on either side of the Physical/Special split with its movepool.
- Z-Destiny Bond sounds fairly bonkers. Follow Me + a potential free KO? I can see a lot of people fearing that.
- Lastly: This meta is a lot slower than past ones. Most of the new Pokemon have a base speed below 80, and I think if we add in Alola Forms and Pokemon from previous generations, you may still get most of the meta with a base speed below 90. The general slowness of the new Pokemon may not be as pronounced this year, which is cool.
Primarina gives legitimately good typing and very much qualifies itself in the existence of Azumarill. It also gives a reliable, accurate, spread Water STAB that doesn't hit your ally, which is unheard of in Doubles. Surf hits ally, Muddy Water has limited distribution, an amazing side effect, and cringeworthy acc. Water-typed Hyper Voice is extremely solid and 126 Sp. Atk is no joke; that puts it as the highest Sp. Atk of ANY non-Uber, non-Mega Water type and is high even among Fairies as well.
Water + Fairy + Grass with that Sp. Atk and respectable bulk is great. Grass/Poison dooms it, I know, but that never stopped Azumarill.
I will very much be trying it out, and expect some serious results. Watch out for Weakness Policy sets LOL.
Water + Fairy + Grass with that Sp. Atk and respectable bulk is great. Grass/Poison dooms it, I know, but that never stopped Azumarill.
I will very much be trying it out, and expect some serious results. Watch out for Weakness Policy sets LOL.
Just some corrections you can make to the original post now that we have more information.
Pelipper and Torkoal get Drizzle and Drought respectively, so you can add them to the auto weather setters.
Tapu Lele's ability is quick guard-esque. While it only applies to grounded Pokemon and can be contested by other Tapu's, as well as being on a timer, I don't believe Tapu Lele has to stay in for this effect to take place which is somewhat of a niche.
You can remove Smeargle from highly accurate sleep, or at least change Dark Void for Spore (since Smeargle neither learns Dark Void anymore, nor is it highly accurate).
There's plenty of other notable things about the new Pokemon leaks, it would just take too long to fit them all into the categories.
Oh also, I'm not sure if previous forms of Pokemon will be allowed since I'm not sure whether you'll be able to catch them in Alola and I assume it is something like the pentagon rule where the Pokemon need to be caught in Alola. I might be completely wrong here and somebody please correct me if I am, but if that's the case then you can remove Dugtrio from Trapping since it no longer gets Arena Trap.
Pelipper and Torkoal get Drizzle and Drought respectively, so you can add them to the auto weather setters.
Tapu Lele's ability is quick guard-esque. While it only applies to grounded Pokemon and can be contested by other Tapu's, as well as being on a timer, I don't believe Tapu Lele has to stay in for this effect to take place which is somewhat of a niche.
You can remove Smeargle from highly accurate sleep, or at least change Dark Void for Spore (since Smeargle neither learns Dark Void anymore, nor is it highly accurate).
There's plenty of other notable things about the new Pokemon leaks, it would just take too long to fit them all into the categories.
Oh also, I'm not sure if previous forms of Pokemon will be allowed since I'm not sure whether you'll be able to catch them in Alola and I assume it is something like the pentagon rule where the Pokemon need to be caught in Alola. I might be completely wrong here and somebody please correct me if I am, but if that's the case then you can remove Dugtrio from Trapping since it no longer gets Arena Trap.
Pelliper's buff is significant since it gets drizzle+STAB hurricane which might merit use over Politoed. I wouldn't underestimate Bulu either. Grassy Terrain plus Comfey might allow it to significantly slow down the pace of the game and force some really stupid prediction games with protect/priority heals. Comfey also gets helping hand which is nice in a meta with no tutors. Trick room as well, which is usually kind of crap on a pokemon with 100 base speed but considering it has priority on its useful moves it might have its uses.
I think Gigalith will be very good now as a rain remover, the sand boost helps patch up its otherwise meh s. def. Its support movepool is unfortunately shallow, but it does get wide guard and has a very strong rock slide in trick room.
edit: eviolite nerf was disproven, long live Porygon2.
I think Gigalith will be very good now as a rain remover, the sand boost helps patch up its otherwise meh s. def. Its support movepool is unfortunately shallow, but it does get wide guard and has a very strong rock slide in trick room.
edit: eviolite nerf was disproven, long live Porygon2.
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I think minior will be a very Interesting pokemon if it gets a shell smash off it can force plays. after two shell smashes even in its shield form it's super fast and strong paired with oranguru it can do two rock slides in a row
I'm starting to try and get back into VGC this year, and right now I am doing a bit of teambuilding. At first I was deciding on a Hariyama + Metagross combo, but unfortunately Hariyama can't learn helping hand (Volbeat isn't in this gen), so as of now I think I am going to do a Metagross + ElecRain team. I don't know where to go aside from Metagross + Politoed/Pelipper (Pelipper has speed control, flying immunity, U-turn + wide guard, so might be better) and Tapu Koko, and would appreciate a little help.
Looking at something similar, although I had gone with Scarf Xirkitree because:
252 SpA Xirkitree Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Toxapex: 300-354 (98.6 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
That said, Tapu Koko does actually edge it out:
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Toxapex in Electric Terrain: 290-344 (95.3 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex in Electric Terrain: 320-377 (105.2 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Huh... Well, guess I'll need to make a couple of alterations to the team. Besides that I have Pelipper for Rain, Gastrodon and Scizor for weakness balancing, Persian-A For support and as the Designated Z-Move user (Z-Parting Shot is arguably one of the strongest effects you can get from a Z-Move in VGC) and Tapu Bulu for more weakness Balancing (Although swapping it out with something else to avoid potential Terrain Conflict may be in order.) Nothing too set in stone (items for most of the 'mons are missing and the only thing that's mostly done is the Alolan Persian Set since barring EV calculations it's pretty much good to go.)
But yeah, seems my view on how much Tapu Koko's Thunders can hurt was justified. Well, guess that's something to pay attention to.
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