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I can't run damage cals right now but I think it can be beat down with generally good cores.
Magnet koko using volt switch on a nasty plot should put it in range for something like mega scizor bullet punch or banded zygrade extreme speed. And I'm sure if people were forced to run scarf koko there could be a kill after rocks, volt switch, plus dazzling gleam and out speeds it.
Tapu fini plus heatran break it's Dragon stab with terrain and protect is still runnable on trapping heatran who would scare off bisharp looking for a defog boost on switch.
But that core would lose to it using t-bolt over fire blast but then it gets walled by other steels.
Scarf Lando switching in on fire blast/t bolt and nasty plot would threaten it and if it had u-turn Lando would also and come out on top over all
Edit later with more sets like calm mind ice beam blissey/sea cucumber xD
Mega zam is a really messed up switch in on nasty plot with encore or psychic and able to steam roll the team after
Prankster jingle keys can switch in on every single move he has besides fire blast and encore/set hazards and I expect it can run a berry for that and t-wave it and defog now if hazards aren't Your thing. But zone will give it trouble
Stick To It (Naganadel) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 88 Atk / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
This is a naganadel set I really look forward to using because of just the fact that it can revenge a majority of the metagame and be a pivot
This Dragon/Poison/Fire coverage of my favorite mon (My Showdown and Youtube names are ItzAdhesive) allows for it to beat the likes of fairies which is huge for a dragon to be able to do. I believe this mon will force a lot more scarfed latios being run and that is why scarf works so well on it. It can outspeed AshGren being able to take a Water Shuriken from it. This set has enough EVs to outspeed Scarfed Latios also. And coincidentally with this things base stats if I run 252 SPATK I get the beast boost raise in Special Attack making it even better for this mon in a scenario. This set is only really efficiently checked by heatran and bulky grounds such as spdef hippowdon and things like AV TTar in which it can U-Trn out into an offensive water type to gain momentum during the match such as AshGren or Greninja. This mon also takes out the fairies that AshGren struggles with making it all the better to pair with it. The offensive synergy between these two monswill be devastating for the metagame in my opinion and could even lead to one of the two being suspected.
In all fairness extra bulk is always nice but the extra damage for U-Turn I find to be superior in this case sheerly due to the fact that its bulk is mediocre
Also did I forget to mention that this thing can check koko to help preserve gren before it has "mutated" in ashgren? Also beats the grass types ash gren struggled with like ferrothorn and can create a U-Turn core between the two
In all fairness extra bulk is always nice but the extra damage for U-Turn I find to be superior in this case sheerly due to the fact that its bulk is mediocre
No reason to waste it on speed when it outspeeds every scarfer that it needs to and the fastest mon in the metagame. Also facing hoopa-u (which i know this is an extremely situational and almost irrelevant calc)
0 Atk Naganadel U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 236-280 (78.4 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
88 Atk Naganadel U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 264-312 (87.7 - 103.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
The only reason I could see you having added it to speed (which makes it so you don't get special attack beast boost) is to outspeed Scolipede at +1 which is honestly not that big of a problem when it comes to naganadel's status
No reason to waste it on speed when it outspeeds every scarfer that it needs to and the fastest mon in the metagame. Also facing hoopa-u (which i know this is an extremely situational and almost irrelevant calc)
0 Atk Naganadel U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 236-280 (78.4 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
88 Atk Naganadel U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 264-312 (87.7 - 103.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
The only reason I could see you having added it to speed (which makes it so you don't get special attack beast boost) is to outspeed Scolipede at +1 which is honestly not that big of a problem when it comes to naganadel's status
Name a reason to have it in anything else. This is not a sweeping set. It is made to chip things down and get occasional kills allowing other mons to sweep/clean. It can also clean in itself.
I would only invest in attack if it lets it net a kill with u-turn on weevile otherwise I'd like a non defense dropping nature with defense to live banded ice shard after rocks 1-2 times
I don't feel Weavile will be as good as people are making it out to be in this meta. Fini will just rise in usage tbh. My team would rather run negative defense to check special koko better for ashgren
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I think Klefki can have a spot in OU tbh with defog being added. The amazing fairy typing with prankster defog allows it to bait in things like ashgren, mega sableye, and ttar. Since prankster doesn't affect dark types, Bisharp actually can not get a +2 boost from this thing using defog
Unlockable (Klefki) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Play Rough
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise
This could be a nice hazard remover on HO or BO teams allowing it to thunder wave to the likes of things like Volcarona that Klefki generally lets in for free without T-Wave
I mean honestly as nice as a special attack boost would be on a scarf set, a +1 boost to speed prevents you from being revenge killed by anything other than priority, so it might be better to invest in more speed.
Name a reason to have it in anything else. This is not a sweeping set. It is made to chip things down and get occasional kills allowing other mons to sweep/clean. It can also clean in itself.
Gonna make this quick as to get on to my main point, 3 Reasons:
1) Hasty Nature, or even Naive.
Running a Hasty Nature, or Naive even with Naganedels bulk only limits it revenge killer capabilities, as the chip it takes, the faster itll be put into range of priority. If you then decide to run Naive, the situational benefits of missing an attack or role and then living, or eating the SpAtk better, is better than the small damage U-Turn is doing.
64+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Dragalge: 153-181 (53.3 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Dragalge: 173-204 (60.2 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Dragalge: 130-154 (45.2 - 53.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Dragalge: 209-246 (72.8 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Dragalge: 106-125 (36.9 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
2) U-Turn
2 things here, first is the small damage U-Turn is doing to targets, most things you will want to be revenge killing such as Greninja wont be staying in and switching out to something else to take the attak, and looking at the tier, most of them are already taking little damage from U-Turn (note I added Zygarde as a switch as Draco is unfavourable to be locked into, so it can work as a decent switch situationally). I will admit Ohkoing Hoopa-U is good, as it eats all your Special Attacks, however, Hoopa-U is Bl, meaning it hasnt got the usage for OU. Unless Hoopas usage shoots up in USM, the advantages of the bulk, far out weight this single situation
84 Atk Dragalge U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 124-146 (44.1 - 51.9%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO
84 Atk Dragalge U-turn vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 80-96 (19.8 - 23.8%) -- possible 5HKO
84 Atk Dragalge U-turn vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 10-12 (2.5 - 3.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
84 Atk Dragalge U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 37-44 (10.3 - 12.2%) -- possible 8HKO after Stealth Rock
84 Atk Dragalge U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Toxapex: 15-18 (4.9 - 5.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
3) The extra bulk
Lastly, the extra bulk you gain from both losing the -Def Nature and the extra 80 Evs in Hp and the 4 in Def make a significant difference to damage roles, improving the situations you find your self in.
0 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 228-268 (79.4 - 93.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 228-268 (74.2 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 235-277 (81.8 - 96.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 235-277 (76.5 - 90.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 117-138 (40.7 - 48%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Quick Attack vs. 80 HP / 4 Def Dragalge: 117-138 (38.1 - 44.9%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 116-137 (40.4 - 47.7%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 116-137 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
In general, U-Turn is only used for pivoting on Special Attackers, and while its nice to increase the chip damage you do by not decreasing Ivs to 0 and putting the last 4 Evs in Atk, you shouldnt damage its other stats or prioritise it over potential significant bulk. I hope I explained it in an understandable way:)
Now on to what I wanted to talk about, new Hazard removal. Ahhh, I get to use sprites, making my post nice and Colourful C:
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 24 SpD / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Defog
The new Defoger everyones been talking about, Lando-T can now pretty much fill any role it wants to. Defensive, Wallbreaker, Sweeper, Stealth Rock, Hazard removal, its versatility is now insane whether or not you think Defog will be good on it. People believe it will be outclassed by Defog Ha Gliscor, but I believe that the two fit in on different play styles, with perhaps a small overlap on balance. Unlike Gliscor, LandoTs EQ still hits really hard, and Phys Def being better due to intimidate, allowing it to check things Gliscor never will. These reason I believe it will mainly fit on BO and more offensive variants perhaps on HO, where its main usage point will be synergising in new hazard cores that were before not possible. BO used to have to rely on few hazard removal options such as Tapu Fini, Latios, M.Scizor and perhaps the rare Mantine, but with Defog LandoT, it can now free up for Offensive Scizor, CM Latios or other mons. Viable SR users are far more common too, thus giving BO more options to use, rather than relying on a small group of mons.
Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 196 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Spikes
- Toxic / Thunder Wave / Magnet Rise / Recycle (With Air Balloon)
- Play Rough
As robopoke (S/o to the cool recycle Air Balloon tech too) mentioned earlier, Klefki seems to be a great option for HO builds, being able to Spike, Defog, and checking certain set up sweepers from tearing through your team with its priority Thunder Wave or Toxic. I feel its role compaction for HO is kinda insane, fulfilling 3 things at once, while its defensive typing is amazing, resisting some of the most spam-able moves against HO. The set I went with is both Defog and Spikes, to be able to remove trouble some hazard, such as Toxic Spikes, lead Webs, and Rocks/Spikes, while being able to stack your own up quickly. Thunder Wave and Toxic are there to help shut down certain set up sweepers that run through HO builds, with Toxic hitting Zygarde and stopping bulkier sweepers such as Latias from Roost Stalling and Ttar from Dragon Dancing further to alleviate Thunder Wave. Thunder Wave is also a great option as it hits Magearna but other speed boosters or fast Pokemon from plowing through the team if slower. Lastly I decided to go with Play Rough to hit Dark types trying to come in to stop the Defog. The invesment gives it a 75% chance to Ohko Greninja after Stealth Rock while it always lives a Specs Hydro from Ash after Rocks. Magnet Rise and Recycle + Air Balloon are options, with Air Balloon allowing Klefki to avoid Spikes damage and switch in on EQs, and Magnet Rise allowing you to switch in on Knock Off, but also access to Leftovers passive recovery.
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Klefki: 253-298 (79.5 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
60 Atk Klefki Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja-Ash: 240-284 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Probably the best new Defoger we got, Gliscor, now with access to both Ha and Defog, it can beat many of the tiers current hazard setters, and is probably the best switch-in to Toxapex when its running certain moves. As I said above, I feel the only time where Gliscor and LandoT will compete for a Defog spot, is on balance, but with the super fat balances going around, I feel Gliscor will mostly come on top, which Lando perhaps running more offensive Defog sets, perhaps on Scarf. I see Gliscor mainly working on bulky Balance builds, Semi-Stall and Stall itself, as with Roost + Poison Heal making Gliscors longevity throughtout the match insane, nice utility options in Toxic, relatively fast Taunt for stall, and Knock being annoying and hard to switch into. I feel like Taunt will be the best option, as it stops people from trying to waste you Defog PP as Stealth Rock, Spikes and Tspikes all have more PP, while also letting you stop Recovery from slower Pokemon, beat both CM Rocks Clefable and Toxapex 1v1 and prevent set up in general, not leaving Gliscor so open. Knock Off is another great option allowing you to beat SpDef Toxapex 1v1 while crippling many many Pokemon in the tier. Both these options are nice Vs fatter teams. Vs more offensive teams however, Toxic is nice to put Pokemon such as LandoT on a timer while U-Turn can pick up momentum very easily. The Evs spread is very customisable, but I felt outpacing max speed Magearna was a nice option.
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 144-170 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 18.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 144-170 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 186-218 (61.7 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- SpA Landorus-Therian Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 248 SpD Gliscor: 156-184 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
I honestly don't know how Tornadus Therian Formation will run Defog. It could run it on Offensive sets, but will lose a potentially valuable coverage option or Utility option in Knock Off and Taunt or U-Turn, a Defensive but doesn't have the added bulk from Assault Vest, but Regenerator Defog is so so nice as it can stay healthy throughout the match. Also with amazing Utility options at its disposal, and coverage it can potentially beat any Hazard setter, Heat Wave for Ferro, Icy Wind for LandoT, and if youre feeling spicy, Iron Tail for both Diancie and Clefable, being highly customisable to the team. I imagine it'll fit best on BO, maybe some Rain/HO and balance with more offensive or defensive being ran.
Other Potential Ou Hazard Removal Options:
M.Altaria: M.Altaria has a super nice type combo, bulk, and access to recovery and team support options in Heal Bell while still hitting hard due to both Pixilate and high base power moves in Return, Hyper Voice and nice coverage in Eq and Fire Blast. I feel M.Altaria could work really well on Semi-Stall, Stall and perhaps a few of the fatter Balances.
Flogres: Similar to M.Altaria, but with higher SpDef, and not using up a Mega slot, I could see Flogres working well on Stall builds as it can be used along side M.Sableye. It also has nice utility options in Wish support and Aromatherapy and Toxic.
Zapdos: Like Gliscor, Defog is now compatible with Zapdos's Ha, improving its Phys Def sets, by punishing U-Turn and other Physical moves. It also helps it spread Paralysis in tandem with Discharge, which could be nice along side Jirachi if you wanna be that guy.
Tapu Koko: A mon almost as versitile as LandoT, being able to run numerous Z-moves, items, boosting moves, pivot moves, utility and hazard removal. Though I doubt it will often run this move, as find a place for it in a set is quite difficult, I feel it can be ran as a second defoger on teams with Volcarona on, reducing pressure on the main defoger
Dhelmise: It didnt get access to Defog, but it did get access to Synthesis, giving it reliable recovery with a nice defensive typing. Though I dont imagine seeing it in OU often, or perhaps not even on the Vr, it is now one of the better Rapid Spin users, along with Starmie.
Rotom-W: Rotom-W was an excellent pivot last gen, being able to come in on many of the tiers scariest threats, such as LandoT and M.Pinsir. But with the introduction of Z-Moves and general power creep overall, just having a solid typing wasnt enough for Rotom anymore and thus dropped and I don't think the added option of defog will change its fate, as losing Pain Split, Wisp, Vswitch or Hydro is a huge blow. However, I do think it will rise on the Vr with its added utility, being a nice option for BO builds, being able to check M.Pinsir, Fly-Z Lando somewhat, and provide nice Wisp and pivot utility.
Its a shame Celesteela didnt get Stealth Rock of Defog
I'm still unsure whether people are serious or joking about AV TTar becoming a legit thing in the upcoming meta ...
If AV TTar does become a thing though, 248 HP/ 252+ SpD with AV seems overkill. I ran some calcs and came up with the set below:
Tyranitar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 220 Atk / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Crunch
Basically, the idea is that 248 HP and AV let you live +2 Z-Draco from Naganadel (which is the main reason for this set to become legit it seems) comfortably. Rest of EVs can go to Atk and Spe imo.
36 Spe is to outspeed AV Magearna and EQ it before it Volt Switch on you. Depends on what become relevant in USUM, you can run more or less.
With 0 Atk, you need rocks to kill Naganadel with EQ and Pursuit does just a bit over half so probably should invest some there. I put all remaining EVs in Atk and give it Adamant to max damage output.
tl;dr: 248 HP/ 252+ SpD with AV seems overkill. I think there are more optimal spreads
Tyranitar@ Assault Vest
Adamant
Sand Stream
248 HP 116 Atk 108 SDef 36 Spe
Crunch
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Pursuit
116 Attack and Adamant means you always kill Naganadel with EQ. 36 Speed outspeeds uninvested Magearna (might even be worth adjusting that). The rest are dumped into SDef to, of note, be able to take a Focus Blast from Specs Lele in the Sand most of the time. This might require further adjustment, but it shows promise.
Calcs:
116+ Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 4 Def Dragalge: 288-340 (93.8 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (Sand does 6.25% so it's guaranteed to finish it off if the EQ doesn't kill)
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 208-246 (51.6 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 139-165 (34.4 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 316-372 (78.4 - 92.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 88 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 320-380 (79.4 - 94.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (bare minimum SpD investment, IMO)
The reason people are running near max-max spreads on AV T-Tar is because that boy needs to be as fat as possible if it wants to be able to check all of these new threats at the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if cores like Volc + Naganadel or Naganadel + Blacephalon start popping up on the same team, and T-Tar's gonna feel heavily pressured if that's going to be your main answer to them.
The problem with the sets above is that by cutting away at the SpDef, you no longer tank a +1 Savage Spinout from Volcarona even after Stealth Rock damage is applied:
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 392-464 (97.2 - 115.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 354-416 (87.8 - 103.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 296-350 (73.4 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
32 Atk Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 612-720 (196.7 - 231.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
192 SpDef still enables you to not only tank the +1 Spinout, but also run those 36 Speed EVs for AV Magearna and dump the rest to Attack. What's neat about this spread too is that +0 Bug Buzz in to Savage Spinout doesn't even OHKO T-Tar from full.
The reason people are running near max-max spreads on AV T-Tar is because that boy needs to be as fat as possible if it wants to be able to check all of these new threats at the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if cores like Volc + Naganadel or Naganadel + Blacephalon start popping up on the same team, and T-Tar's gonna feel heavily pressured if that's going to be your main answer to them.
The problem with the sets above is that by cutting away at the SpDef, you no longer tank a +1 Savage Spinout from Volcarona even after Stealth Rock damage is applied:
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 392-464 (97.2 - 115.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 354-416 (87.8 - 103.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 296-350 (73.4 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
32 Atk Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 612-720 (196.7 - 231.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
192 SpDef still enables you to not only tank the +1 Spinout, but also run those 36 Speed EVs for AV Magearna and dump the rest to Attack. What's neat about this spread too is that +0 Bug Buzz in to Savage Spinout doesn't even OHKO T-Tar from full.
If I may say something, Blacephalon and Volc do have other counters besides TTar, but Naganadel...doesn't really have any. To top that all off, I don't think it's that hard to use something like Pex or Zygarde (or hell, even Heatran to double as a backup Naga counter + Rocks setter that eats Blacephalon for breakfast) for Volc and the main set to counter with Naganadel is a Z-Crystal set (Dragonium Z to be exact). Beyond that, you can sack something to Volc if all else fails...but you can't do that to a Naga because of Beast Boost upping its speed--Blacephalon's Beast Boost is SAtk while Volc lacks the ability--so IMHO, the prerogative is KOing the thing. Hell, both Volc and the clown can be picked off with priority by Ash-Greninja (both are Fire-Type) or by scarfers (it helps that Volc isn't that quick and the clown can't boost its own speed) Naga is too fast for scarfers to pick off if you let it get a Beast Boost and isn't weak to priority.
For the sake of argument, let's assume that there is a Naga + Volc combo with Volc holding a Z-Crystal and Naga holding a Life Orb:
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 183-216 (45.4 - 53.5%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO
32 Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge [Naganadel]: 248-292 (86.4 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (the sand won't pick it off if it isn't LO, bear in mind, so it still has another turn to weaken you even more)
68 Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 254-300 (88.5 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (if you drop the 36 Speed Evs into Attack)
252 SpA Volcarona Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 200-236 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO (it's shaky to say the least)
Granted, Volc won't get a boost, but that's still something it needed gone out of the way and opening an opportunity for it later. Going further, the Naga may be Choiced in some way (Specs or Scarf) and packing U-Turn to weaken TTar (yes it doesn't do much damage but still). While I do like your set...I don't think TTar as a Volc check/counter is that good of an idea to begin with unless you have a Wish passer to keep it healthy (forget using Bulu since you weaken TTar's EQ).
And yes, I know that rocks guarantee the kill on Naga...but I'm not so sure you can rely on that with freaking EVERYTHING getting Defog (including Lando-T, one of TTar's best counters that regularly packs U-Turn, btw).
I basically covered this in another post I made earlier, where I had an AV T-Tar pair up with a Mantine on a more balanced team. I never once said T-Tar was going to handle everything completely by himself, but I felt like the extra bulk was much more important if Mantine were to go down or was too whittled to continue checking these mons. It's really just an insurance policy more than anything. I feel like by the mid-game, these mons that T-Tar and Mantine will be going up against will have taken at least some chip damage, whether it's from rocks, sand stream, LO damage, whatever, which leads me to believe that AV Tar doesn't really need that much Atk investment, especially when it can OHKO Volc with Rock Slide and Blacephalon with Pursuit without it.
I basically covered this in another post I made earlier, where I had an AV T-Tar pair up with a Mantine on a more balanced team. I never once said T-Tar was going to handle everything completely by himself, but I felt like the extra bulk was much more important if Mantine were to go down or was too whittled to continue checking these mons. It's really just an insurance policy more than anything. I feel like by the mid-game, these mons that T-Tar and Mantine will be going up against will have taken at least some chip damage, whether it's from rocks, sand stream, LO damage, whatever, which leads me to believe that AV Tar doesn't really need that much Atk investment, especially when it can OHKO Volc with Rock Slide and Blacephalon with Pursuit without it.
Just read your original post (good stuff, by the way) and wondered...could we see a core of AVTar + Mantine + WishTect Rachi? Max/Max SDef Rachi walls the main weakness of your core, Mega Diancie (Earth Power doesn't 2HKO plus Rachi resists Rocks and is immune to TTar's Sand), and can either OHKO it with Iron Head or get a U-Turn off plus hey, TTar likes wishes (especially easy to do with Wish + a slow U-Turn). If you want you could even use Stealth Rock Rachi and get hazards + Defog in the same core. You'd mainly need something for Koko (a grass type, probably Tangrowth) but like you said Koko 3HKOes TTar at worst.
EDIT: Alternatively you could just use Tangrowth (I personally like an AV set with the PhysDef EV spread) to handle both Koko and Diancie but Rachi as a concept works pretty well with AVTar (mainly Wish + U-Turn is great for an AV mon with limited recovery).
My ironic pfp doesn't tel you anything but I feel this thing will at least rise to UU and maybe even be a low ranked OU pokemon. This thing checks Lando decently as well and we all like stuff that check Lando. A fire type that can be waters is always great especially on AshGren teams. It packs a will-o-wisp too allowing it to cripple things that come in on its defog such as bisharp (which you will overheat anyways but creates a safer play in most situations). As Volcarona rises this mon's immunity to HP Ground and a resist to Volcarona's stab could give it a niche. A SpDef set completely walls volcarona and allows a check to the upcoming Blacephalon.
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Defog
- Roost
- Ice Fang
This thing is another amazing defogger. Checking Lando-T and Zygarde almost as well as lando-t is a great attribute. The ability for this thing to have celesteela like recovery every turn is as almost as annoying as celesteela itself. Roost and Ice Fang are just filler moves which can be replaced with things like U-Turn and Taunt. ice Fang is to have a decent damaging move towards lando and zygarde
-1 0 Atk Gliscor Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 132-156 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- 73.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Gliscor Ice Fang vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 156-184 (43.5 - 51.3%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Stick To It (Naganadel) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 88 Atk / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- U-turn
- Sludge Wave
- Flamethrower
Run you timid 56 HP 32 SPDEF if you are really scared of priority and koko
Protean Deficiency (Greninja-Ash) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Water Shuriken
Iron Woman (Magearna)
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Ice Beam
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flash Cannon
Hammerhead (Landorus-Therian) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Knock Off
Elmo (Conkeldurr) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
Massive Theorymon incoming, but my reasoning as to why this mon won't be super-low tier in the future, maybe not OU, but definitely not Guzzlord_bad:
(Bastiodon=Stakataka)
I honestly think that Stakataka is one of the most solid Solo TR Mon after putting even more thought into this mon:
1. Other Niche TR Sweeper
Look at Cofagrigus TR set(which, afaik, was ranked C-), which I think is the most fair comparison for using TR:
Cofagrigus @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
- Hidden Power Fighting
- Trick Room
HP:58
Attack:50
Defense:145
Sp. Atk:95
Sp. Def:105
Speed:30
Urgh, what a "bad" set imho: Its main stab has an immunity to face, it has terrible base special attack (95SpA), and you HAVE TO run a Z-move and you have to setup twice.
Like compare it to this:
OFFENSIVE TR SET:(Beast Boost +Atk)
Stakataka @ Rockium Z / Metal Coat / FightiumZ
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Lonely Nature
IVs: 15 Def / 0 Spe
- Trick Room - Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake/Superpower
Base stats compared to Cofagrigus
HP:61 +3
Attack:131 +36
Defense:211 +56
Sp. Atk:53 +3
Sp. Def:101 -4
Speed:13 "+17"
Look at the stat improvement! Yes typing does count for defensive purposes, but look at neutral attacks:
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Cofagrigus in Electric Terrain: 253-298 (79.3 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bastiodon in Electric Terrain: 262-310 (80.3 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The special bulk is similar, however the important aspect: Both can setup Trick Room on SPECS Tapu Koko! But here is the main difference ladies and gentlemen:
252+ SpA Cofagrigus Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Koko: 145-172 (51.6 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Metal Coat Bastiodon Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 373-439 (132.7 - 156.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This is just one example of a very prominent Pokemon in OU causing trouble.
What does that mean? With no Z-move usage and no setting up of an equivalent Swords Dance, Stakataka is capable of destroying Tapu Koko easily, with Trick Room activated and a +1 Boost to Attack. Cofagrigus has to use its Z-move against something as frail as Tapu Koko...
Now what is important about Stakataka too? Since it can run 2 moves alongside Gyro Ball for Coverage(and usinga Z-Move itself):
252+ Atk Bastiodon Z-Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 190-225 (62.5 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
What if you are in a position to steamroll your opponent? Well...
+1 252+ Atk Bastiodon Z-Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 285-336 (93.7 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (my fav calc)
+1 252+ Atk Bastiodon Z-Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 402-474 (101 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Bastiodon Z-Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 292-345 (87.6 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Bastiodon Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 295-348 (92.4 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
NON SPECS 252 SpA Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bastiodon: 222-270 (68 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Bastiodon Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja-Ash: 280-330 (98.2 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (alternative, SE always kills)
252+ Atk Bastiodon Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 44 Def Heatran: 440-520 (117 - 138.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO +1 252+ Atk Bastiodon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 121-143 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- 49.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery WALLS IT+1 252+ Atk Bastiodon Superpower vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 292-344 (82.9 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery a possible solution
Another thing about Stakataka: It isn't blocked by Chansey at all, too. Another good point for it.
Furthermore I also wanted to point out another Rock/Steel brethren of the past: Aggron. It isn't OU viable, but I just want to compare, as italso has a 150 STAB move to throw around, but there are three differences which are important and show what Stakataka does much better: 1. Head Smash miss. Everyone hates this one. Gyro Ball can't miss
2. No Beast Boost, you can't start to steamroll with Aggron
3. Rock Polish Aggron is ridiculously slow. TR Stakataka outspeeds pretty much everything Conclusion:
I think this thing is gonna have a TR Niche in OU. By itself it isn't "OU good", but it will act like a stronger Solo TR Cofagrigus. Which is nice!
It could be useful on dedicated Trick Room teams, but why would I use Stakatacka over Trick Room Magearna? While Magearna is faster, it has much better typing and can still snowball thanks to Soul Heart.
It could be useful on dedicated Trick Room teams, but why would I use Stakatacka over Trick Room Magearna? While Magearna is faster, it has much better typing and can still snowball thanks to Soul Heart.
Stakataka actually has a stronger niche and is better than people rag on it for. Band Gyro Ball clocks a fuckton on a lot of Pokemon and many people seem to forget this - we get it that it's yet "another" Rock / Steel Pokemon, but these are the Pokemon that often have a unique way of shaking PU and NU:
- Aggron has a devastating Head Smash, and many of its switchins either dont enjoy the coverage alongside it or cant switch in repeatedly.
- Probopass has actually gotten some credit in NU since it's a decent Ice-type resist that can also trap non-Roar Steelix thanks to Magnet Rise.
I'm not going to go as far as theorymon where it ends up, but as far as I'm concerned it is ragged on way too much for all the wrong reasons. Also remember unlike Aggron it can set up its own Trick Room - while not great by OU standards as suicide leads such as Uxie outclass it, consider some sweepers like Alolan-Marowak and Crawdaunt lack that quality and rely on Uxie / Cresselia / Magearna to set up Trick Room for them.
I wanted to post this not necessarily to add fuel to the fire, but because MANY users in this thread have relentlessly mocked it and I think the mon at least deserves a fair share of credit. Reference - 290 Speed Mew is OHKOed by Banded Gyro Ball. That's actually impressive.
