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[SPOILERS] USUM Speculation & Discussion

Discussion in 'Video Game Championships' started by Pyritie, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Pyritie

    Pyritie

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,758
    thread approved by blarajan

    New Pokemon:

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    ======
    804 - Naganadel (UB Adhesive's evolution)
    ======
    Base Stats: 073/073/073/127/073/121 (BST: 540)
    Ability: Beast Boost
    Type: Poison / Dragon
    - Air Cutter
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Peck
    - Growl
    - Helping Hand
    - Acid
    7 Fury Attack
    13 Venoshock
    19 Charm
    23 Venom Drench
    31 Nasty Plot
    37 Poison Jab
    41 Toxic
    47 Fell Stinger
    53 Air Slash
    61 Dragon Pulse
    TM02 Dragon Claw
    TM06 Toxic
    TM09 Venoshock
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM21 Frustration
    TM24 Thunderbolt
    TM27 Return
    TM28 Leech Life
    TM32 Double Team
    TM34 Sludge Wave
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM36 Sludge Bomb
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM40 Aerial Ace
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM46 Thief
    TM48 Round
    TM49 Echoed Voice
    TM58 Sky Drop
    TM62 Acrobatics
    TM65 Shadow Claw
    TM67 Smart Strike
    TM76 Fly
    TM81 X-Scissor
    TM82 Dragon Tail
    TM84 Poison Jab
    TM88 Sleep Talk
    TM89 U-turn
    TM90 Substitute
    TM95 Snarl
    TM97 Dark Pulse
    TM100 Confide
    Tutor Draco Meteor
    Tutor Signal Beam
    Tutor Gunk Shot
    Tutor Uproar
    Tutor Dragon Pulse
    Tutor Iron Tail
    Tutor Snore
    Tutor Heat Wave
    Tutor Tailwind
    Tutor Sky Attack
    Tutor Shock Wave
    Tutor Gastro Acid
    Tutor Helping Hand
    Tutor Outrage
    Tutor Snatch
    Tutor Ally Switch
    Tutor Throat Chop
    Tutor Laser Focus

    [​IMG]
    ======
    805 - Stakataka (UB Assembly)
    ======
    Base Stats: 061/131/211/053/101/013 (BST: 570)
    Ability: Beast Boost
    Type: Rock / Steel
    Weight: 820.0 kg
    - Protect
    - Tackle
    5 Rock Slide
    11 Stealth Rock
    17 Bide
    19 Take Down
    23 Rock Throw
    31 Autotomize
    37 Iron Defense
    43 Iron Head
    47 Rock Blast
    53 Wide Guard
    61 Double-Edge
    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect
    TM20 Safeguard
    TM21 Frustration
    TM23 Smack Down
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM33 Reflect
    TM37 Sandstorm
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM48 Round
    TM59 Brutal Swing
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM69 Rock Polish
    TM71 Stone Edge
    TM74 Gyro Ball
    TM78 Bulldoze
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM83 Infestation
    TM88 Sleep Talk
    TM90 Substitute
    TM91 Flash Cannon
    TM92 Trick Room
    Tutor Iron Head
    Tutor Magic Coat
    Tutor Block
    Tutor Gravity
    Tutor Magnet Rise
    Tutor Iron Defense
    Tutor Superpower
    Tutor Zen Headbutt
    Tutor Bind
    Tutor Snore
    Tutor Role Play
    Tutor Magic Room
    Tutor Wonder Room
    Tutor Recycle
    Tutor Stealth Rock
    Tutor Skill Swap
    Tutor Telekinesis
    Tutor Ally Switch
    Tutor Stomping Tantrum

    [​IMG]
    ======
    806 - Blacephalon (UB Burst)
    ======
    Base Stats: 053/127/053/151/079/107 (BST: 570)
    Ability: Beast Boost
    Type: Fire / Ghost
    Weight: 013.0 kg
    - Ember
    - Astonish
    7 Magic Coat
    13 Stored Power
    17 Flame Burst
    23 Night Shade
    29 Light Screen
    31 Calm Mind
    37 Fire Blast
    41 Shadow Ball
    47 Trick
    59 Mind Blown
    TM03 Psyshock
    TM04 Calm Mind
    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM16 Light Screen
    TM17 Protect
    TM21 Frustration
    TM23 Smack Down
    TM27 Return
    TM29 Psychic
    TM30 Shadow Ball
    TM32 Double Team
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Flame Charge
    TM44 Rest
    TM46 Thief
    TM48 Round
    TM50 Overheat
    TM56 Fling
    TM60 Quash
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp
    TM64 Explosion
    TM65 Shadow Claw
    TM66 Payback
    TM87 Swagger
    TM88 Sleep Talk
    TM90 Substitute
    TM97 Dark Pulse
    TM100 Confide
    Tutor Uproar
    Tutor Foul Play
    Tutor Last Resort
    Tutor Snore
    Tutor Knock Off
    Tutor Heat Wave
    Tutor Pain Split
    Tutor Spite
    Tutor After You
    Tutor Trick
    Tutor Recycle

    there's also zeraora but it's an event mon so it'll never be VGC relevant

    there's also a bunch of new stuff with necrozma but those won't be relevant until 2019 at the earliest



    New Moves:

    Show Hide

    Mind Blown
    The user attacks everything around it by causing its own head to explode. This also damages the user.
    Fire, Special, 150 Power, 100% Accuracy, 5 PP
    All adjacent Pokémon
    Turns into Inferno Overdrive (200 Power)
    Takes away 50% of the user's maximum HP, rounded up. Odd HP numbers will not let you use this 3 times. Works similarly to Explosion/Self Destruct in terms of who faints first and Damp making the move not work.

    Let’s Snuggle Forever
    After obtaining Z-Power, the user, Mimikyu, punches the target with full force.
    Fairy, Physical, 190 Power, based on Play Rough
    Single Adjacent Pokémon

    Splintered Stormshards
    After obtaining Z-Power, the user, Lycanroc, attacks the target with full force. This move negates the effect on the battlefield.
    Rock, Physical, 190 Power, based on Stone Edge
    Single Adjacent Pokémon
    Removes current terrain

    Clangorous Soulblaze
    After obtaining Z-Power, the user, Kommo-o, attacks the opposing Pokémon with full force. This move boosts the user’s stats.
    Dragon, Special, 185 Power, based on Clanging Scales
    All adjacent opponents
    +1 Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed for the user, only if the move connects (i.e., doesn't whiff into anything immune to it)


    New tutor moves:

    look at this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOI7e6lW0AE1fCS.png:orig
    notable shit:
    - fini got icy wind and knock off
    - phero got drill run and icy wind
    - kartana got knock off and tailwind
    - tapu koko got electroweb and a bunch of physical moves, still no play rough though
    - a load of things got stomping tantrum
    - basically everything learns ally switch now
    - celesteela got superpower
    - alolan muk got recycle and elemental punches
    - togedemaru got iron head, helping hand, super fang
    - kommo-o got close combat as well as that new z-move but it's probably still gonna be garbage
    - and a bunch of stuff got PuP as an egg move but kang didn't
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  2. R-B-Y

    R-B-Y

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    343
    Oh those tutor moves are the shit. Icy wind fini? Tailwind Kartana? RECYCLE muk?
  3. NeekumsPKMN

    NeekumsPKMN

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    Thats Lit Bro
  4. DisguiseBusted!

    DisguiseBusted!

    Joined:
    May 29, 2017
    Messages:
    55
    As I and other people said in the Stakataka thread, this man along with Skill Swap Ice Beam TR Cress is a menace. You don't need strange IVs and Lonely nature, which is nice, since you will have Levitate most of the times. It features the strongest Gyro in the game, even without a boosting item, along with a rather potent STAB Rock Slide. I'll definetively at least try it out.
    I love Blace to bits. It has a fantastic offensive typing, good STABs at its disposal, like Heat Wave, Fire Blast, Shadow Ball, and some handy tricks like Knock, Trick, Wisp, Taunt, screens, explosion, Foul Play, Recycle + Mind Blown, Sub, Swagger, Quash, which does give the element of unpredictability to it. Did I already mention that I love it?
    Naga is cool. I can see bulkier sets being run, maybe AV with Draco, Sludge Bomb, Heat Wave and Sky Drop due to its useful asses of resistances, mainly walling Koko and Fini to almost no end with an AV. If not I can see it (her?) work like the VGC17 Kartana: Sash 3 attacks/sash tailwind, Z Poison or Sub two attacks, modest Scarf being run. I personally think you can drop the Dragon STAB with Fini being EVERYWHERE, whereas Poison + Fire is just godly coverage. Being faster than every Tapu and hitting them supereffectively is just fantastic for it, too. The one personally I find more appealing is Z Poison, being able to outspeed everything up to Jolly Mence and OHKO it is REALLY nice, but I'll see how AV works out too.
  5. transwiththeplans

    transwiththeplans

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    432
    Would Stakataka / Tapu Fini / Cresselia be a good Team?

    Lead with Stak and Cress, skill swap, swap for Fini and spam Swagger on Stak?

    Something like

    Stakataka @ Assualt Vest
    Ability: Beast Boost
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Sassy Nature
    -Gyro Ball
    -Rock Slide
    -Earthquake
    -Infestation

    Trap with Infestation, spam Gyro Ball.

    Cresselia @ Mental Herb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Relaxed Nature
    - Psychic
    - Trick Room
    - Thunderbolt
    - Skill Swap

    The leading partner.

    Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
    Ability: Misty Surge
    EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 156 SpA / 28 SpD
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Muddy Water
    - Moonblast
    - Swagger
    - Protect
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  6. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Battle Spot Leader

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    Messages:
    3,981
    if you skill swap levitate onto Stakataka, it won't get the misty terrain protection and will get confused by swagger
    jedirb likes this.
  7. Speedholes

    Speedholes

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2013
    Messages:
    77
    Hype for some of these new moves, lets take a look.
    Z Ally Switch gives +2 Speed. Letsa go:

    Tapu Lele @ Psychium Z
    Ability: Psychic Surge
    EVs: 4Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Modest Nature
    - Psychic
    - Moonblast
    - Ally Switch
    - Protect

    So now Lele has the option to either fire off a huge Shattering Psyche, or get an agility boost. Outside of this Ally Switch can still be useful when Lele's partner has good defensive synergy - it's not like you really needed that third moveslot anyway. Honestly you should probably run a bulky spread with this but it's hard to know what that will look like until we see how things shake out.

    Stomping Tantrum aw yeah:

    Metagross @ Metagrossite
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 4HP / 252Atk / 252Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Stomping Tantrum
    - Protect

    Stomping Tantrum had as much power as EQ after spread reduction. It's also a contact move so it gets boosted by Tough Claws, and doesn't suffer a penalty from Grassy Terrain. This gives Metagross its most reliable and powerful attack against Heatran and opposing Metagross. Also 2HKOs Aegislash in shield form but King's Shield is a pain. Unfortunately does not get a damage boost from Protect blocking your last move.

    PUNCH DRAGON OMEGA:

    Kommo-o @ Kommo-oium Z
    Ability: This thing seriously gets 3 good abilities just use whatever
    EVs: 100Atk / 236SpA / 172Spe
    Naughty Nature
    - Clanging Scales
    - Close Combat
    - Iron Head
    - Protect

    Close Combat OHKOs 4HP Kang and 4HP Heatran without a boost. After the Z-move boost you outspeed MegaMence and KO with Clanging Scales, as well as OHKO both Mega Gardevoir and Lele with Iron Head. Sounds impressive maybe but lets be real this thing probably still sucks :(
    transwiththeplans likes this.
  8. Fire Fist Ace

    Fire Fist Ace

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2014
    Messages:
    149
    Would like to flag cant say for coming up with this serious meme. Not sure how well Hydreigon would serve in the next VGC format, although I bet it would be a decent niche pick for fighting Lando-T, Heatran, Cresselia, Aegislash, etc.

    But cant say brought up this little hidden gem on the BSS speculation thread.

    Hydreigon @ Poisonium Z
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
    Modest / Timid Nature
    - Belch
    - Earth Power / Dark Pulse
    - Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Earth Power
    - Protect / Fire Blast / Draco Meteor

    This Pokémon would definitely require some skill to play effectively, but absolutely punishes the main type it should be scared of. With the number of Tapus we saw last format, I would not even be close to surprised if they come back as a dominant force this format. But Z-Belch turns into the one-time nuke of 190 BP Acid Downpour, which smashes or heavily dents most of the Tapus, and a bunch of Fairies.

    I believe this would be a decent early-season tool, because this set is still not talked about a lot, although it may lose traction later on if this set were to become popular.
  9. transwiththeplans

    transwiththeplans

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    432
    Muk-Alola @ Black Sludge / Figy Berry
    Ability: Poison Touch / Gluttony
    EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 172 Def / 40 SpD
    Brave Nature
    - Curse / Recycle
    - Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
    - Fire Punch / Ice Punch
    - Knock Off
    thesecondbest likes this.
  10. DisguiseBusted!

    DisguiseBusted!

    Joined:
    May 29, 2017
    Messages:
    55
    Recycle Alolan Muk sounds like an amazing set, right? Factor in the 5 min timer tho.
    All these stallish mons, like Muk now and Steela, will probably be seen a lot at the start of the meta to only realize that you may be winning against your opponent, but you have lost to timer.
  11. transwiththeplans

    transwiththeplans

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    432
    That’s what the Punches are there for

    I predicted that Ground and Steels are gonna wall the hell out of Muk, so why not trick them into thinking “Oh, god, stall” and then hit em with the suprise Fire / Ice Punch that may end up poisoning them if you run Poison Touch.
  12. Leader Wallace

    Leader Wallace

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Messages:
    312
    Use Poison Jab instead. Poison has better coverage.
    Calcs: +1 100+ Atk Kommo-o Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 136-160 (93.1 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
    +1 232 SpA Kommo-o Clanging Scales vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Salamence-Mega: 188-224 (109.9 - 130.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 100+ Atk Kommo-o Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 150-178 (102.7 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    52+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o: 63-75 (42 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
    +1 232 SpA Kommo-o Clanging Scales vs. 244 HP / 28 SpD Suicune: 75-88 (36.4 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    +1 100+ Atk Kommo-o Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 92 Def Suicune: 109-129 (52.9 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    100+ Atk Kommo-o Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan-Mega: 180-212 (100 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 232 SpA Kommo-o Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 69-82 (30.3 - 36.1%) -- 46.9% chance to 3HKO
    0 SpA Cresselia Psychic vs. +1 0 HP / 0- SpD Kommo-o: 60-72 (40 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    0 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. +1 0 HP / 0- SpD Kommo-o: 40-48 (26.6 - 32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. +1 0 HP / 0- SpD Kommo-o: 148-180 (98.6 - 120%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
    0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Kommo-o: 132-160 (88 - 106.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
    +1 100+ Atk Kommo-o Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 116+ Def Tapu Fini: 88-104 (49.7 - 58.7%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    100+ Atk Kommo-o Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 168-200 (100.5 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 100+ Atk Kommo-o Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Metagross: 106-126 (68.3 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    I'm going to pair this up with Mega-Gengar. Gengar can trap all the pesky fairy-types, while Kommo-o destroys Dark types, and can even switch to Shadow Ball thanks to Bulletproof. I think a lot of people underestimate Kommo-o. I reached top 20 PGL for VGC 17 using Kommo-o with a set consisting of Clanging Scales, Focus Blast, Flamethrower and Protect, with Fightinum Z as the item. People seriously need to think 4x weakness to Fairy = Bad Mon. A quad weakness has plagued Garchomp and Lando-T, but that hasn't stopped them from dominating. In fact, a quad weakness to Ice is arguably worse than Fairy, since Ice is more common for coverage. Just pair it up with an anti-fairy mon and have fun!
  13. FamousDeaf

    FamousDeaf

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2014
    Messages:
    4
    What I am interesting in some pokemon with move tutor in VGC 18, I've been messed with some new UBs pokemon:
    [​IMG]
    It gets Stomping Tantrum which it's allow to OHKO Heatran without Shuca Berry and Stakataka after LO recoil. It has a way to hit Aegislash which it's helpful for double target it. I think Stomping Tantrum will be a really good last move for Mega Metagross. Stomping Tantrum mechanics is confusing mechanics, I am suggesting you to read on http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...earch-read-post-2.3620030/page-4#post-7579600


    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    They are common partners for TR team, Stakataka almost always have max power Gyro Ball and able to set up Trick Room by itself. I hope you won't play Ally Switch Cresselia with Stakataka in VGC 18 events because it's really annoying to play against. They are normally having Mega Charizard-Y and Landorus-T to hit Steel-type pokemon (it's really influx in the VGC 18 metagame). Stakataka is the best new Ultra Beast pokemon for this format, it's one of the pokemon that need to watch.

    [​IMG]
    It's just average pokemon in the metagame, it's walled by Cresselia and Stakataka. Landorus-T is still most common pokemon that can take a hit and OHKO it or even outspeed it with Scarf Earthquake. It's lost to Tapu Lele and Mega Metagross team unless you want to be fancy to run Scarf to ohko Scarf Tapu Lele. It's access to Tailwind and able to threat the Tapus, it's probably best pair with Mega Charizard-Y.

    [​IMG]
    I think it should be used like Gengar (it's better than offensive non-mega Gengar). I am not sure what best set for Blacephalon, I've seen Scarf Blacephanol which it's make sense to me because It's able to outspeed MegaGross, Tapu Lele, Nagadanel and etc.
  14. ethan06

    ethan06 ⋖(☼┆☼)⋗
    is a Community Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    918
    [​IMG]
    Tsareena @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Queenly Majesty
    EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Power Whip
    - Play Rough
    - Low Kick / Knock Off / High Jump Kick
    - Feint

    Tsareena got a lot better in the switch up to USUM. It's probably still not amazing but it has a lot of really cool tools to set it apart from the format's other bulky Grasses, not least the ability to block Fake Out even for non-grounded allies, access to Feint, and the ability to damage Dragon-types. In VGC17 it fell by the wayside due to a weak STAB, unreliable Fighting coverage and a complete inability to hit Ghost-type threats like Marowak and Gengar - with the new games, all three of these problems have been rectified at once. It's still a little disappointing damage output-wise but having actual high-powered moves helps it out a ton at checking the things that it's designed to check, especially the likes of Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Suicune, Landorus, and Gardevoir, as well as improving its matchup versus Rain and Sand archetypes. The new coverage gives it more ways to annoy the likes of Stakataka, Kangaskhan, and Heatran with Low Kick, and Amoonguss, Celesteela, and Aegislash with Knock Off. Not sure if it's enough to make it popular but it sits far more comfortably in its niche now.

    As an aside, Silvally gets Tailwind now... having a setter with flexible typing seems handy for teambuilding but who can say if that means anything ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  15. DisguiseBusted!

    DisguiseBusted!

    Joined:
    May 29, 2017
    Messages:
    55
    About Tsareena: why would she care about hitting dragons? The two relevant dragons in the format are Mence and Naga, in which you would not stay in anyway. Wouldn't a set with Knock/HJK for Ferro over Play Rough be better? Do you think a super sitrus set with helping hand, synthesis or worry seed (lol) set to be decent?
    I'm on phone now, but later I'll post about how cool Icy Wind Parting Shot Persian Alola is, expecially to ease set-up.
  16. ethan06

    ethan06 ⋖(☼┆☼)⋗
    is a Community Contributor Alumnus

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    Whoops, forgot to mention that this set hits 101 speed for use with Tailwind. Generally speaking, it probably isn't that useful, but it bops the odd Scrafty or Hydreigon and under Tailwind it can chunk Mence pretty hard (you're never taking Double-Edge but Assault Vest can eat a spread Hyper Voice pretty easily...). I'll have to play around with Whip/Knock/Low Kick/Feint (HJK is not safe in doubles unless you are a prediction god) and see how useful it is, cheers ^_^

    As far as support moves go, Helping Hand is the only one I'd consider to be useful... not really rating recovery moves this year especially with the new battle timer. It does get some other cool stuff like dual screens and Grass Whistle (Gravity, do it) but I feel like Assault Vest is just a solid call considering Feint and Knock.
    DisguiseBusted! likes this.
  17. R-B-Y

    R-B-Y

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    Nov 6, 2015
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    If any of you are having problems with blacephalon, tyranitar walls it completely.
  18. Pyritie

    Pyritie

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
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    1,758
    blacephalon used will-o-wisp!
  19. Leader Wallace

    Leader Wallace

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
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    312
    Stills walls it.
  20. R-B-Y

    R-B-Y

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    Idk, lum berry, or Tapu fini. Or even harking back to the 2014 days, some kind of janky special ttar, but idk if that'll work very well.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017 at 8:06 PM
  21. FamousDeaf

    FamousDeaf

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2014
    Messages:
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    You should not let Blacephanol against Tyranitar, it could have scarf, Tapu Fini or even speed controls. It's 100% lost against Tyranitar anyway.

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