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St(all)s Well that Ends Well

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Muddy Rain, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. Muddy Rain

    Muddy Rain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    19
    This metagame is filled with offensive teams. This is not one of them.


    When I was building this team, the goal was to safely counter every Pokemon that I could come across in the OU tier, and punish the opponent on switches with entry hazards, and I think this team does a pretty good job of this.


    Team Building:

    When I was thinking of the core of this team, I wanted a FWG core, that could have utility beyond just taking hits. In the end, I decided on a core of Heatran, Celebi, and Jellicent (female because it's cooler :P).

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    From there I needed someone to set hazards up safely, namely spikes. After testing with Skarmory, Cloyster, and even Drapion for toxic spikes, I settled on Forretress, because he is the most dependable Pokemon for getting up Spikes or Toxic Spikes (or both). Now the team looks like this.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    At this point, Celebi was the one setting up Stealth Rocks, and it really needed that extra move slot, so I went with another synergy pair of Gliscor (for Stealth Rocks) and Rotom-Wash, for the final two Pokemon, making the final team look like this.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    The team:


    [​IMG]


    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    -Heal Bell
    -Psychic
    -Recover
    -Perish Song

    To put it simply, Celebi is the glue to this team. I decided on physically defensive Celebi due to the ground and fighting weaknesses of Heatran and the lack of physical bulk of Jellicent. The way this Celebi functions is as a set up stopper with Perish Song, and as a cleric. All of my Pokemon are walls, and three of them carry Rest because Celebi can get them right back into the game with a single Heal Bell. Perish Song pseudo-phazes, adding on the the entry hazard damage, and Psychic destroys Toxicroak, and this Celebi especially counters Breloom if sleep-clause is activiated, which it often is due to so many Pokemon with Rest. Synergy wise Celebi works great with Jellicent and Heatran. Most importantly, it can take the Earthquakes that neither of those two want to take. It is one of three physical walls on the team.


    [​IMG]


    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 SpA
    -Roar
    -Protect
    -Lava Plume
    -Rest

    Heatran is my main counter to Sun teams, and a member of the FWG core. The way this Heatran functions is it phazes, Protect stalls, and prevents Ferrothorn and Forretress from setting up all over me. As the only phazer on the team, it is extremely important that I keep this guy alive. Without reliable recovery? Rest and heal bell do wonders for Heatran, and can even scare some people out thinking it's a rest-talk set. In terms of synergy, Heatran works great for Celebi, taking fire attacks, and protecting to see if they are choiced or not. It's major weakness to ground is covered by Celebi, and it's fighting weakness is covered by Celebi and Jellicent and even Gliscor. It is one of three special walls on the team.

    [​IMG]


    Jellicent @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP/222 SpD/36 Def
    Calm Nature
    -Will O Wisp
    -Recover
    -Scald
    -Ice Beam

    Jellicent is the final member of the FWG core. It functions as a spin blocker as well as a great special sponge. This Jellicent counters Starmie and scares Forretress. Will-o-wisp just wears down the opponent, along with the entry hazards and constant switches this team forces. Recover is again for reliable recovery, because this team just does not die. Scald hit's incoming physical threats and can possibly burn, whereas Ice Beam is solely for Latias and Latios, which would otherwise beat this team. In terms of synergy it's weakness to grass is covered by Forretress, Heatran, and Celebi. It's weakness to electric is covered by Gliscor, Celebi, and even Rotom-W. Jellicent basically sponges everything.


    [​IMG]


    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP/184 Def/72 Spe
    Bold Nature
    -Stealth Rock
    -Roost
    -Toxic
    -Taunt

    Gliscor usually functions as my lead. It can come in and taunt slower Pokemon, and proceed to safely set up Stealth Rocks. The reasoning behind Bold nature is that it doesn't even carry a single attacking move, so I may as well lower the Attack as much as possible in case of Confusion. Late game, Gliscor walls most all fighting types, and can toxic them or force a switch if it's an obvious choice Pokemon. Gliscor does wonders for this team. It gives me a second resistance to fighting, along with the immunity from Jellicent, so I can play a lot of mind games with choiced Infernapes and fighting types in general. Also, it is one of only two ground immunities, and it's weaknesses are covered by the FWG core. Roost is just for staying power. Gliscor is one of three Physical Walls.


    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def
    Calm Nature
    -Thunder Wave
    -Thunderbolt
    -Hydro Pump
    -Rest

    Rotom-W does a lot for my team, he is a secondary water type special wall to Jellicent, which gives me a lot of insurance there, and it is my standard lead against rain teams. The way this Rotom-W functions is as a special wall, that comes in and paralysis threats such as Latias and Latios, making them an easy kill for Jellicent. Rotom-W has a lot of synergy with Gliscor, making a great pair of Pokemon for the team. In addition, Rotom-W gives me another much needed fire resistance, as well as one of only two ground immunities. It's weaknesses are covered by the FWG core. Rest is another recovery move on this team. Rotom-W is one of three special walls on this team.


    [​IMG]

    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
    Impish Nature
    -Spikes
    -Toxic Spikes
    -Rapid Spin
    -Rest

    Forretress sets up hazards, and spins them away. That's all it does. It's my main counter to Outrage, as well as physically based Pokemon in general. Forretress can always get up at least one layer of Spikes or Toxic Spikes due to Sturdy, though with a proper switch in I can usually get at least three layers up. Most players try to get an obvious spinner out of the game early, and Forretress does not have reliable recovery such as Roost, therefore, I put Rest on it. Giving Forretress an extra life or two to keep the threat of a spinner, or to put up more hazards puts a lot of pressure on the opponent. In terms of synergy, there really isn't much, but that doesn't matter, all it does it put up hazards, and spins them away. It is also one of three physical walls on the team.


    Recap:

    This team is a huge stall team, and relies on entry hazards to win.
    Thank you for reading, and I am open to any suggestions except adding weather.

    Thank you.
  2. Episode36

    Episode36

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    Hi. Nice looking team. FWG is always good for stall, so I like your first 3 Pokemon. Rest+Heal Bell is also cool. The first thing I thought when looking at the team was, how do you deal with set up boosters, particularly one such as Volcarona (even worse in sun). Celebi will get demolished by fire. Heatran can't take HP Ground. Jellicent is set up bait. Gliscor is demolished. Rotom-W can do the most, but if Volc has accrued 2 boosts, it will be hard pressed to deal much with HP. And Forretress is of course demolished. I really like that you have roar and perish song, but against particular threats, you just won't be able to use them before dying.

    I think a specially defensive spread would suit your Celebi better. Possibly consider turning Rotom-W physically defensive to keep your balance among the team. Overall, though, this team doesn't have a lot of good things going for it as far as movesets go, imo. You have very little offensive presence. As I said, perish song, roar, taunt are all well and good, but there are some threats that will just sweep you. Sun teams in particular can just sweep. Many use Dugtrio, Heatran is gone, Venusaur/Volcarona free to sweep. I know stall is tough, and I'm not a big expert, so maybe some other people can shed more light.

    Props to you, though, for trying it. I like the core. Rotom-W is always solid. Gliscor might need replacing, maybe a different spinner too, I don't know. Good luck!
  3. Livio

    Livio
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    255
    Hey Dude, cool team is enaugh similar to Ojama's Toxic Invasion. I love to play stall and i love to use Celebi it too, now let's rate!

    First off, i see some embarassing weakness such as against the most common special sweepers, i mean things such as SheerForceLandorus or LO/Expert Belt Thundurus, so these are my advices that could help you.

    1. Change DefCelebi spread into a SpDCelebi, that s because you already have something that you may use against Toxicroak, his name is Jellicent and you need a pokemon that you can switch-in on Thundurus/SheerLandorus or Latwins. Another suggest is to change Heal Bell on Celebi, cause it s already status absorber, and you have Heatran too, that could be only Paralyzed. Heal bell could be substitute by U-Turn or Baton pass. Why? Baton Pass is perfect to escape from random Pursuiter, such as CBandScizor or CBandTyranitar and setup with forretress. Psychic is not a good idea, cause you must hit things like Rotom-W/Gastrodon and it s useless against the common switch into Tyranitar fpr example, so let s try Giga Drain >Psichic, with it you can hit harder common bulky water pokemons and sometimes recover something.

    2. Now that you have not Heal Bell on Celebi you must change some set, for example Heatran can try Earth Power/Toxic>Rest (I suggest you the second) to poison Rotom-W, Politoed,Gastrodon, Jellicent or Latios/Latias, that are the most common switches in on Heatran. The same slot of Rotom-W you can replace with Pain Split or change his item from Leftovers to Chesto Berry. I also suggest you to give it Will-o-Wisp instead of Thunder Wave, that s because Ferrothorn can give some problem especially when you have entry hazards inside and can t switch to many time in Heatran.

    3. Your Forretress is a best Setup fodder that i ever seen. You need something that could hit Opponent's pokemon, and Gyro Ball>Toxic Spikes maybe is an idea from the moment it is your only pokemon that can enter on a possible Dragon Physical pokemon such as Bandnite or Haxorus/Kyurem-B, you have to do him 0Ivs in Spd to hit harder fast pokemon. For this stall the Toxic Spikes are not so fundamental, you already have Gliscor that abuse of his trait to stall with poison status.
    The slot that you used to Rest now is empty, i d suggest you Volt Switch>Rest, so you don t lose the momentum that s basic to stall the opponent, with this move you also avoid some forced switch that could benefit the opponent.

    4.Now you need to change some EVs spread, the first that i suggest you is Jellicent, you Have to use 252Hp/208SpD/48Spd Calm Nature, with this you can outspeed Standard CBandZor and burn it before the obvious Pursuit, you have also to replace Taunt instead of Ice Beam, that s because in this way he doesn t give setupp fodder and avoid the eventually status (most common are Toxic Chansey/Blissey or Ferrothorn Twave/Spikes), it work incredibly fine with Will-o-Wisp too. Another my suggestion is to give Acrobatics>Stealth Rock on Gliscor, the reason is simple, without Acrobatics to have nothing against TechLoom wich now is everywhere. You can give Sr to Heatran in place of Roar, this because you already have a PseudoHazer and is Celebi with Perish Song.

    Hope I Helped

    Tl;dr

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 216 SDef / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Perish Song
    - Baton Pass
    - Recover
    - Giga Drain


    [​IMG]

    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 SDef / 16 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Stealth Rock

    [​IMG]

    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Volt Switch
    - Gyro Ball
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin


    [​IMG]

    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 208 SDef / 48 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover
    - Taunt
  4. Shiny Charizard

    Shiny Charizard

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Messages:
    46
    Hey. I'm not totally experienced with stall teams, as they don't really work out for me. However, I do have some advice I can give you.

    First of all, Psychic really doesn't have much utility, and since this team really needs Celebi, I doubt you would want to get it killed by a Pursuit Tyranitar. I'm not going to advise Giga Drain or anything either, as it does minimal damage to Tyranitar in sandstorm. My suggestion is to put U-turn on Celebi. Though it may not deal with Conkeldurr quickly, either Gliscor or Jellicent can completely wall it depending on if it's using Ice Punch or Payback. Also, your spread will need to be let you outspeed all non-scarf versions of Tyranitar. Try 252 HP/232 SpD/24 Spe. This lets you U-turn before Tyranitar can hit you, which is always a benefit. Finally, I'd go for Stealth Rock instead of Perish Song. Heatran already phazes, and I'll get to why Gliscor shouldn't be running it when I get to his rate.

    As for Heatran, I suggest you change the spread to 248 HP/252 SpD/8 Spe. Though it seems quite random, it lets Heatran outspeed slower threats that may be problematic. I also believe relying on Rest + Heal Bell is a dangerous strategy, as keeping Celebi alive is not that easy. In its place, I think you should either run Toxic or Will-O-Wisp. Either of these can support Gliscor or Jellicent, respectively. Also, when in conjunction with Roar, you can status whole teams.

    Jellicent is fine, but Shadow Ball instead of Ice Beam because Jellicent's STAB Shadow Ball hits the Lati twins for more damage than Ice Beam.

    As for Gliscor, I will get to the reason of why not to run Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock is not allowed for use on a Poison Heal Gliscor, so I'm afraid that you can't use Stealth Rock on Gliscor. As for Roost, it is quite pointless on Gliscor when you have Poison Heal, as you can simply use stall moves to regain health. I think you should change Roost and Stealth Rock to Earthquake and Protect. This allows you to deal damage quickly and Protect is extremely effective with Toxic and Poison Heal, as the opponent loses health and you gain health; plus you don't get attacked that turn. I also think that with Earthquake, you should change Bold to Impish.

    For Rotom-W, I think you should run 248 HP/28 SpA/232 SpD. This spread lets you hit a bit harder. An effective VoltTurn core could work here, do I think Volt Switch over Thunderbolt is nice here. Also, as mentioned before, I think you shouldn't rely on Rest + Heal Bell, and I think Pain Split is a good alternate that serves decently for Rotom-W's recovery. Finally, I think Will-O-Wisp beats Thunder Wave here, as Thunder Wave will have you running too many status conditions.

    Finally, I think Forretress could use Volt Switch instead of Rest because once again, Heal Bell + Rest is far too risky. Also, since Forretress puts down hazards and spins, you'd want to keep it alive, right? Volt Switch is crucial for escaping Magnezone, who would otherwise trap and destroy Forretress.

    My last thing is just a simple suggestion. If you find that keeping your Pokemon without sufficient recovery alive is that important, a Wish Jirachi set could replace Celebi. Wish Jirachi can do exactly what Celebi can, except it has more resistances along with an extremely annoying (perfect for stall) ability in Serene Grace. However, this is simply a suggestion, as you might want to keep your FWG core, instead. Also, Jirachi brings forth a biger weakness to Landorus, so that's bot really something to aim for. Here's the set if you're interested.

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP, 224 SpD, 32 Spe
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Careful
    Moves:
    -Iron Head
    -Body Slam/Thunder Wave
    -Wish
    -Stealth Rock

    (Note: if using Jirachi, than you can start using Thunder Wave on Rotom-W, again.)

    Cool team, and gl.

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