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Discussion in 'Site Projects' started by Sonuis, Oct 29, 2008.

  1. Sonuis

    Sonuis Doofenshmirtz Evil Incorporated!
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 24, 2004
    I need to start gathering opinions on ST5. It's almost hit its 1 year mark, so it probably needs to start up pretty quick. I need some opinions on what I should do to make it better than last year's tournament. There are some things though to figure out. I've got some of my opinions, but I want to run it over with you guys and see what the overall opinion is in the IS.
    1. Should we go for 256 again? There were more than enough people who signed up and extra as substitutes. (It's an iffy here for me. It can be hard to control)
    2. Should the tournament be set up as random pairings or should we go with the bracket format? (The bracket format ended up being a wee bit hard for some reason. Maybe it was due to some people failing to finish their battles)
    3. Should we hold another predictions tournament with the prize as a one time custom title choice of the winner's choosing. Unless a person has a badge, then there is no point. (This would become easier if there are random pairings. orochi won this last year and because he had a badge which let him create a custom title already, nothing changed. I think running this would be a good idea as it'd bring more attention to the tournament, bringing in more participants. Surgo's Perl program worked okay for this, but it was suited more for random pairings).
    4. Should this wait until all of the trials for the new Platinum pokémon (Namely Shaymin-S) be finished or should it start right away without any problems? This affects when ST5 will start up.
    5. When the tournament starts up, shall we close off tournament registrations, wait for all tournaments to finish up, then run ST5 as the only active tournament? This will reduce confusion possibly.
    6. Should all active members of Smogon, regardless of post count or whoever is hosting, be allowed to join? Member status will still apply on joining. This would require the negation of log requirements and let the word of the players be trusted. This might churn a problem if this is the case. Then again, people who just registered can join unlike last year.
    I'm sure there are some other questions/things that can be asked and debated on here.
  2. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Aug 3, 2005
    1. Go for whatever power of 2 we can hit. I have no doubt that we could get 256 easily.
    2. The bracket is functionally identical to random pairings, except you get more of a "prediction" kind of feel to it. I say stick with the bracket.
    3. Don't see why not?
    4. Whatever we decide, we should stick with the same rules the whole tournament.
    5. No opinion.
    6. Maybe make it so people who've joined in the last month or whatever are basically put in as alternates?
  3. Hipmonlee

    Hipmonlee Have a rice day
    is a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Dec 19, 2004
    I agree with everything ipl said. Not allowing people to sign up who registered after sign ups were posted might be a good idea.

    A quick ip check of all entrants would be a good idea too, but obviously not flawless..

    Have a nice day.
  4. Stallion

    Stallion 20% of the time, it works every time
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Jun 11, 2006
    256 is fine, I'm just worried that due to timezones as to when its posted, better battlers who are from Europe or non US countries will miss out, maybe preferences to well known battlers first to make it a stronger playing field? Also agreeing with IPL that we run this after Shaymin's status is determined. Also I say yes to the predictions tournament, but ehh I really don't think that prize is that amazing. I know a few Wi-Fi users who may put up a clone of a few certain good EV'd pokemon (Movie Darkrai anyone?), so maybe one of those as a prize?
  5. Taylor

    Taylor i am alien
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 11, 2006
    You can always hire extra staff for Smogon Touranment 5. If the general work load becomes too difficult to handle on your own, choose a couple of trustworthy members of the community, who also fully understand how ST5 is ran, to give you help organizing and running the tournament.

    I prefer the bracket format. I would like to continue with this function for ST5, too.

    The predictions tournament was a cool idea. It gave everyone a chance to win something. I'd love to see it back for another tournament.

    I wasn't bothered if Skymin's tier was undecided at the point in time where we begin the tournament. However, it will affect those who intend on using just one team throughout the tournament. That's more of a reason to determine Skymin's tier sooner rather than later. So... yes, I suppose we should determine its tier first.

    If we shut off other tournaments, people would have very little to do when just 32/16 participants are left in the tournament, out of the hundreds who want to compete. On the other hand, holding off every other tournament further establishes the value of the Smogon Tour, what with everyone's attention directed towards it. Plus, if you were in other tournaments simultainiously, it can affect the ammunt of effort you're expected to give to just one; after all, having many opponents for different tournaments is tough when you have different deadlines to meet. This could affect the speed of ST5; instead of being efficient and fluent, it becomes stale to many because of the sluggish progression. It may be a reasonable option to go with closing all other active tournaments.

    I agree with imperfectluck's time proposal.
  6. Havak

    Havak I'm the Best. You're a Towel.
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 18, 2005
    1. I agree with IPL, definately aim for 256 again as it's easily acheived here on Smogon. I'd definately be up for helping with anything if needed as well.

    2. I've always preferred random pairings, but I'm not too fussed if we go for the Bracket again. So I'm fairly neutral on this, but would more like to see random.

    3. Prediction tournaments are cool. It's a little extra work, but it's fun and gives people who miss out a chance to try and win something.

    4. I'd say wait until Shaymin-S's tiering is somewhat finalized (which will be roughly the end of November) before we start up. Then we'll have what could possibly be the "final" Uber tier for quite a while. So basically, we should play Smogon Tournament #5 with the same OU's, BL's, and UU's we have right now, but await Shaymin-S's placement for the final word. After that, if there is any more testing to take place while the tournament is happening, it shouldn't effect ST5.

    5. I'd say yes. (Though you may not need to wait for all other tourney's to finish. Just close application for others to start next month sometime).

    6. IPL hit the nail on the head again here, so I agree with him. Usual signing up rules shall apply, but if your join date is after the date of the sign ups topic, you can't join. Also agreeing with IPL that any staff helping host the tournament should still be allowed to compete.
  7. Aeolus

    Aeolus Bag
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Sep 12, 2005
    Sonuis, please don't make any public announcements about this before talking to me on IRC.

    * 256 is fine.

    * Please don't start until after the vote on Shaymin-S. Any subsequent changes will not affect the rules in place for the tournament

    * Random pairings are preferable to the bracket. As Obi already identified, they are functionally identical, however, with random pairings, the host's hands aren't tied if the winners of two unfinished matches are scheduled to play in the following round. This will facilitate a more timely progression, which is terribly important in a tournament of this size that will undoubtedly incorporate unreliable participants. Yeah, the bracket is cool... but it just isn't worth the trouble it causes in the early rounds.
  8. twash

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 26, 2007
    Basically the same as Hipmonlee, in agreeing completely with IPL.
  9. Great Sage

    Great Sage Banned deucer.

    Jul 31, 2006
    Definitely try to get to 256; there's a huge number of people on these forums. I don't see why we shouldn't have a predictions tourney like last time just for a bit of fun, especially since it doesn't affect anything anyways.
  10. Venom

    Venom red eyes no visine
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Nov 9, 2007
    I agree with IPL as well.

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