STABmons Viability Ranking

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EV

Banned deucer.
Togekiss loses to common threats depending on its coverage. It likes Oblivion Wing for STAB and recovery. Moonblast is good for STAB and the Special Attack drop chance. Then there's Aura Sphere to beat Heatran or Fire Blast to beat Aegi and Jirachi I guess. I think the limitations placed on the Geo set is what keeps it in middle A, which almost feels too high to be honest.

I've run it as a more supportive Pokemon because it has bulk while maintaining an offensive presence. Heal Bell and Thunder Wave are good additions to sets with just STAB attacks. Sadly, Rock and Steel are really good right now and limit it in just about any role.

I'm actually curious to see if anyone thinks it should drop. Geo sets rely on that herb to function, so if it doesn't have the appropriate coverage move and gets forced out, it loses a lot of its potency. Maybe A- is better suited? And if it doesn't influence the metagame anymore, maybe it needs to be somewhere in B.
 
I think it should drop. The metagame is too prepared for setup sweepers, and when you only have one opportunity to set up, you really aren't doing much.

Use it for awhile and was pretty disappointed. B+ seems fine.
 
I'm fine with Togekiss where it is right now. I mean, Moonblast 2HKOes Sableye even if it Topsy-Turveys which is neat as well and it has a cool niche in having almost perfect neutral STAB moves. Honestly, a set of Geomancy / Oblivion Wing / Aura Sphere / Fire Blast isn't that farfetched. It hits everything neutrally and hits 381 Pokemon for normal effectiveness, along with 393 Pokemon super effectively. Meanwhile Fairy / Fighting / Flying hits everything but Aegislash, 365 NE, and 405 SE. Finally, Fairy / Fire / Flying hits 2 NVE (Rotom-H and Macargo), 456 NE, and 316 SE. Of these, the most balanced is the Flying / Fighting / Fire. Fairy might seem like a necessity, but what does it hit that Flying and Fighting don't hit hard enough anyways? Still need to test it, but it doesn't seem bad. Togekiss is strong, and defensive sets have merit. I think it's perfectly fine and does not need to move down at all.

The Eevee General
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Also, after some more consideration and consensus on Showdown, Landorus-I has floated up to join those in S rank, or the gods among us.

That brings our total of S-mons to 5. I feel like that's a lot. Are the others still S worthy? Or am I just feeling claustrophobic for no reason?
 
Also, after some more consideration and consensus on Showdown, Landorus-I has floated up to join those in S rank, or the gods among us.

That brings our total of S-mons to 5. I feel like that's a lot. Are the others still S worthy? Or am I just feeling claustrophobic for no reason?
No, they all belong there imo.
 
Terrakion: B ---> B+ / A-

Terrakion is really awesome right now. I took your suggestion and tried it out and have not once have I regretted it. Diamond Storm / Close Combat are so strong and give great coverage and Hidden Power Ice allows it to beat down Gliscor and Landorus as well. What I think is so important about Terrakion is its fantastic Speed tier of 108. Terrakion unleashes powerful attacks and not much wants to switch into it bar Slowbro or Aegislash. Its bulk is decent and at +1 it's actually really good for an offensive Pokemon. One thing I especially like about Terrakion is the fact that, although it's an offensive Pokemon, it offers defensive synergy and can actually take a hit or two. Terrakion is just really a great Pokemon and far eclipses any other B Rank Pokemon and should move up, even to A- really, it's just really good and really powerful.

Probopass: Unranked ---> C

Probopass is a Pokemon you've probably never even seen out of NU or where it was being used as a shitty joke - but it carves itself a niche. Doom Desire. Doom Desire transforms Probopass and it's actually quite powerful even off of only 75 Special Attack. Magnet Pull is another niche it has and works nicely in tandem with Landorus-I because of their flawless synergy. The only thing that isn't covered is Water-type Pokemon, which can be taken care of with a teammate. Anyways, Magnet Pull. Magnet Pull traps Heatran and Bisharp, which is cute, but more importantly, it traps Skarmory. Skarmory doesn't stand a chance and will either Whirlwind it or faint. Probopass seems like a niche Pokemon at first, and I definitely need a lot more testing, but it's still a really potent Pokemon and deserves to be ranked somewhere.

Here's the set, btw:


Probopass @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
- Doom Desire
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- King's Shield
- Volt Switch


 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
I call your Probopass and raise you this:
Seriously how is this not ranked yet.

Idk what rank this should be, but this outclasses Probopass in almost every way except for bulk, which is usually irrelevant. The main purpose is to trap Skarmory, so pokemon like Diggersby can easily rip through the opponent's team.

Basically, traps steel types mentioned above, except it can actually deal damage :)

252+ SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 272-324 (84.2 - 100.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 272-324 (70.4 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 292-344 (103.9 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 292-344 (85.1 - 100.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 217-256 (79.7 - 94.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Do I even need to calc Skarmory

EVs are pretty arbitrary, mainly to outspeed Jolly Heatran / Diggersby (is that even a thing) so it can serve as a last resort check to them.

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 132 HP / 252 SpA / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon / Doom Desire
- Volt Switch

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch

Adjusted EVs for speed

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch

To trap non speed invested Heatran and creep the pokes that creep base 80s

TBH this is probably the best set.

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 84 HP / 252 SpA / 172 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch

Same thing for fire


etc
 
Scizor-Mega: A+ -----> S

Requesting Scizor-mega to be moved to S. How is this not STABmons defining? It has the bulk to take hits, power to fire and recovery to round off. A bulky Shift Gear set can do wonders in conjunction with its two Technician-boosted STABs (With Scizor, some of the 2HKOs may not happen; so its best placed at A+). Here are some calcs:

252+ SpA Aegislash-Shield Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 79-94 (22.9 - 27.3%) -- 59.9% chance to 4HKO

+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 210-248 (64.8 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


+2 252+ Atk Technician burned Mega Scizor Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 258-306 (84.8 - 100.6%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Pin Missile (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 180-216 (45.6 - 54.8%) -- approx. 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 300-360 (76.1 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Pin Missile (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 369-435 (69.1 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 615-725 (115.1 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 78-93 (22.6 - 27%) -- 36.6% chance to 4HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 372-438 (105 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Moveset:

Scizor (M) @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Roost
- Pin Missile
- Gear Grind

Arguably, any rational Scizor-Mega set gets hard-walled by Heatran, but that's about the only thing stopping this thing, unlike other Offensive mons in the tier that have at least 2-3 checks and/or counters. Scizor-Mega is a great replacement for Mawile-Mega and as such, it should be S Rank.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
unfixable I have to agree that Magnezone is a better alternative to every instance of Probopass EXCEPT for taking out Heatran with Earth Power when Magnezone would rather run HP Fire.

I forgot to rank Maggy, so I'll add it. I'm thinking B to start. It can adapt because it can trap the Steel-types that your team needs out of the way. It doesn't have a lot of versatility, though I do quite like the set I posted in the main thread with Analytic Doom Desire for some big boom damage. Plus, when something switches in to resist the DD, Maggy Volt Switches out to your counter/check.

I'll think about Terrakion and Scizor-Mega some more. They're both really good but struggle against well built cores. I would also say that Skarmory is the best Scizor check over Heatran as long as it has King's Shield, since it can reduce Gear Grind's damage, Roost, and Whirlwind out. Scizor often carries Superpower just for Heatran and usually forgoes Roost to do so.

Anything else that needs a rank that doesn't have one yet? D rank stuff is fine, too! Nominate it all.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Such S ranks :S

We need like an X Rank now for the baddest of the baddest of the bad. AKA the ban me pleases.
 
The Eevee General - That's a key niche imo because it gives it a miniscule thing over Magnezone. That, and higher bulk everywhere, do seperate it. That's why I'm arguing for low C Rankings because it is below Magnezone (which mainly outclasses it)
 

EV

Banned deucer.
The Eevee General - That's a key niche imo because it gives it a miniscule thing over Magnezone. That, and higher bulk everywhere, do seperate it. That's why I'm arguing for low C Rankings because it is below Magnezone (which mainly outclasses it)
:/ I'm gonna give it D only because of Earth Power. It has too many weaknesses to abuse its bulk. Not even King's Shield can save it from Terrakion for instance, and Earthquake as we know evades the shield's effects. Even as a Metal Burst Pokemon it isn't that valuable because it has such a low HP stat. Besides Earth Power, it can also run Taunt to prevent Whirlwind on Skarmory, assuming Skarmory doesn't Taunt it first.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
S rank is too big, we should split s-rank into three categories like the rest of them, which some OM already did (i dont remember atm) so I think it would help out with sorting the S Rank mons.

Also I kinda disagree with lando, considering its piss-poor bulk and the heavy offensive nature of the current metagame. Its mediocre in my experience, and the lack of stall means it cant really shine in any way. It doesnt really do a ton in my experience, as its extremely hard to get in and never seems to be able to stay in since anything relevantly powerful OHKOs it. I have also noticed that it doesnt net enough OHKOs for its bulk; if it doesnt have a super effective hit you tend to be making 2hkos, which means you are gonna die.

I think it doesnt really fit S. Stall isint unviable just because of landorus, and its not all that metagame defining or a threat you have to be extensively prepared for. If the S-rank splits I would be fine with it being S-, but it looks way overrated in the same ranking as sableye and diggersby, both of whom being on a much higher level than lando.
 
Five Pokemon in S rank is not too many... OU has 5 as well. If it gets any larger (which I don't think it will) we can decide if we want to split up the rankings.

Also xJownage, there is definitely not a "lack of stall" in STABmons. At a higher level of play it's everywhere, and to be honest, it's probably the most threatening playstyle atm. Stall definitely does have to prepare for STAB Life Orb Sheer Force-boosted Hurricane from this thing, or else it will lose.

I don't think we should have this mentality that too many Pokemon in S-rank is a bad thing, because it isn't. We want to accurately represent the metagame, and if we have 5, 6, 7 Pokemon in S rank, then so be it.
 
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xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
I never set out to argue that we have too many S-rank mons, mainly the fact that it would be a good idea to split up the S-rank in general. My other argument was that landorus isint in the same class as sableye and diggersby, so I really dont like seeing them in the same rank. Landorus doesnt make stall unviable, you just said stall is very potent atm (I meant offense is much more common in general) and so apparently it is very viable despite lando's presence.

Saying that lando is in the same class as sableye and diggersby is a joke, both of those two are outrageously overcentralizing and make tons and tons of mons unviable or mediocre. Landorus definitely doesnt make stall mons or any mons unviable, and is not nearly as centralizing as any of the other mons in S atm.

So right now the question is this: Is Landorus even close to as centralizing as diggersby or sableye, or even mega ttar and tran? If not, why is he in the same rank as them?
And splitting it into just two ranks S+ and S or S- can let us isolate the differences between the S rank mons.

I misworded myself, I mean not that S rank has too many mons but is too diverse for its size, which is why splitting it could really help there be less range in terms of how good those mons really are.
 
I never set out to argue that we have too many S-rank mons, mainly the fact that it would be a good idea to split up the S-rank in general. My other argument was that landorus isint in the same class as sableye and diggersby, so I really dont like seeing them in the same rank. Landorus doesnt make stall unviable, you just said stall is very potent atm (I meant offense is much more common in general) and so apparently it is very viable despite lando's presence.

Saying that lando is in the same class as sableye and diggersby is a joke, both of those two are outrageously overcentralizing and make tons and tons of mons unviable or mediocre. Landorus definitely doesnt make stall mons or any mons unviable, and is not nearly as centralizing as any of the other mons in S atm.

So right now the question is this: Is Landorus even close to as centralizing as diggersby or sableye, or even mega ttar and tran? If not, why is he in the same rank as them?
And splitting it into just two ranks S+ and S or S- can let us isolate the differences between the S rank mons.

I misworded myself, I mean not that S rank has too many mons but is too diverse for its size, which is why splitting it could really help there be less range in terms of how good those mons really are.
You can't use the argument "Landorus doesn't make stall unviable so it's not S-rank." Should Diggesby drop a few rankings as well, seeing as it doesn't make offense unviable? Of course not. Just because a Pokemon doesn't singly-handedly destroy a playstyle doesn't mean it shouldn't be S-rank.

I do agree that Diggersby and Sableye stick out above the rest. S w/ Diggersby and Sableye and S- with Mega Ttar, Tran, and Landorus is an option.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
w0rd said this on the simulator and I have to agree: I'm way more afraid when I see a Landorus-I than when I see a Sableye or Heatran on the opponent's team.

Lando is incredibly versatile. I think people are only qualifying it based on its LO special set, but it can do more than that. I like running Smack Down on most special sets, and while you lose coverage, you're able to hit any Flyers that stay in or hit whatever switches in with STAB Earth Power. Also believe it or not, physical sets do exist, and they usually run Sand Force. Hell, it can even take advantage of Bulk Up with Roost, Substitute, and Brave Bird. Not to mention it can carry Knock Off (which can help it get past Chansey) or U-turn on just about any set.

Sheer Force Hurricane is probably what makes it famous, but is has a ton of other viable options.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
In my experience, it's Oblivion Wing, not Hurricane that makes it really hard to deal with. Otherwise calm Chansey does a good job walling it. Oblivion wing allows it to heal up more than half of its hp by attacking chansey.
 
Honestly, although I made the nom in the first place, I would be perfectly fine with Heatran dropping. I don't know what it is, but I have been seeing less and less Sableye. Although it's thought to be a league above I would be ok with it dropping simply because a.) taunt fucks it and b.) it honestly is just there. It does perform exceptionally and it's perfectly clear why it's where it is but Sableye dropping is not absurd. Other than that Lando, Ttar, and Diggersby are deserving. L
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
TBH I have conflicting opinions on Diggersby being S rank. Sure, it's one of the most centralizing pokemon in the metagame, but it's also one of the most easy to counter pokemon.

How do I counter thee? Let me count the ways:
Hard Counters:
Skarmory, Landorus-T, Gourgeist (lol), Solrock (Actually works, but still lol)

Soft Counters / Hard Checks:
Quagsire, Aegislash (Air Balloon), Bronzong, Scizor

Soft Checks:
Pretty much anything that can survive an espeed

There's probably more pokemon that I missed.
 
Soft Checks:
Pretty much anything that can survive an espeed
That's not really very many Pokemon, especially since most of them are only viable on defensive teams.

Diggersby can also wear down shit like Landorus-T very easily with Stealth Rock up.

There's also the fact that a good portion of those you listed aren't the most viable.

Overall, Diggersby's access to Huge Power STAB Fake Out + Extremespeed allows it to check a ton of scary setup sweepers that would otherwise be able to run through teams. Swords Dance makes it extremely powerful, and it can can even 2HKO Quagsire with Head Charge. Its a huge headache for offensive teams, and is also run by offensive teams to deal with opposing offensive teams, if that makes any sense @_@.

I couldn't see Diggersby anywhere but S-rank tbh.
 
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EV

Banned deucer.
Honestly, although I made the nom in the first place, I would be perfectly fine with Heatran dropping. I don't know what it is, but I have been seeing less and less Sableye. Although it's thought to be a league above I would be ok with it dropping simply because a.) taunt fucks it and b.) it honestly is just there. It does perform exceptionally and it's perfectly clear why it's where it is but Sableye dropping is not absurd. Other than that Lando, Ttar, and Diggersby are deserving. L
But Heatran is soooo good at what it does. Roars shit in between Doom Desire, which shuffles even more. Throws up SR and Toxic. Burns with Searing Shot, Sacred Fire, or good ol' Lava Plume. Carries Earth Power for coverage and other Heatrans. Holds a Balloon to thwart Charizard's with Earthquake. Uses King's Shield to cripple physical attackers and buy a turn for Doom Desire. It is the epitome of bulky support and supportive offense all wrapped up in one package. The fact that it can perform in so many roles and still maintain an offensive presence is what got it to S. The thing is a incredible.
 
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