Ladder STABmons (the old one)

[Adonzo]

I never got around to using Shuckle last gen, but really wanted to try Tail Glow Shuckle. Thanks to Heal Order and his colossal bulk, he can easily get to +6, where he sits at 520 Special Attack with 252 EVs and a Modest nature, the equivalent of roughly an unboosted Modest max investment base 187 SpA. For reference, that's Deoxys-A / Mega Mewtwo Y levels, but with 20/230/230 bulk and reliable recovery.

He suffers from some 4MSS, having Bug Buzz, Power Gem, Sludge Bomb/Wave, and Earth Power in his special movepool but only 2 spots open, and Status and Taunt remain Shuckle's Achilles' Heel. He becomes dead weight when taunted, and until he sets up he can't do much to prevent it or status, but 2 otherwise easy turns of set-up leave you with the ultimate tank.

 

[Excitement]

Yeah. I do love Shuckle, but, you're right, it can easily become dead weight. It also stinks how much that 20 HP stat limits its bulk.

 

[Adonzo]

I've also wanted to test if there was any merit in Choice Band Ninjask, SR issues aside. 90 Attack isn't bad, especially when's he picked up powerful moves in Megahorn, Brave Bird, and Earthquake (via Nincada), Infiltrator is a great ability for a Bander (no less need for Bonemerang), and he can easily go Adamant thanks to his base 160 Speed.

EDIT: Back on Shuckle, even at +6 he stands no chance against the blobs and other hugely specially defensive targets.

+6 252+ SpA Shuckle Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 165-195 (23.1 - 27.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery and takes massive damage from Seismic Toss due to base 20 HP

 

[Excitement]

I guess Ninjask could work, but I have a feeling that its pitiful defenses can't stand up to the priority that nearly everything has now; Ground moves and Infiltrator are pretty cool, though.

Edit: Shuckle... you have failed us miserably.

Not to mention all the new shenanigans the blobs can pull on it.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 274-324 (38.3 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 406-478 (56.8 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Blissey cannot switch into Download versions

 

[Yellow Cheese]

I've also wanted to test if there was any merit in Choice Band Ninjask, SR issues aside. 90 Attack isn't bad, especially when's he picked up powerful moves in Megahorn, Brave Bird, and Earthquake (via Nincada), Infiltrator is a great ability for a Bander (no less need for Bonemerang), and he can easily go Adamant thanks to his base 160 Speed.

I quess it can work, Banded Ninjask is quite good in UU, since nobody expets it :P

 

[ChicagoJones]

[quote="
Are thee any good Freeze Dry users? The only thing I can think of is Cloyster, who is walled by a lot of Water-types in Standard.[/quote]
It's not standard but I think the poke to really benefit from Freeze Dry is Kyurem-W since it doesn't have the means to deal with water types well

 

[Excitement]

Did someone say PSYWAVE WOBUFFET?!

No, seriously. On average, it's like having a bulky trapper with Seismic Toss. Imputs?

 

[Expulso]

OMG Tail Glow Volcarona

y/n
------------------------------------------------

Did someone say PSYWAVE WOBUFFET?!

No, seriously. On average, it's like having a bulky trapper with Seismic Toss. Imputs?

This is pretty cool, as Wobbuffet has never really needed it's 4th moveslot anyway. I like it! The only problem is unreliability, but ah well.

 

[Adonzo]

As a sweeper, Quiver Dance remains the better option for Volcarona as base 100 Speed is not enough to sweep unboosted. Tail Glow Volcarona certainly has merit however as a powerful wall breaker.

+3 252+ SpA Volcarona Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 459-541 (64.2 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Detective Scruffy]

Things that come to mind are Nasty Plot Greninja and Togekiss that gets Nasty Plot/Oblivion Wing/Moonblast :O

 

[yikes]

Things that come to mind are Nasty Plot Greninja and Togekiss that gets Nasty Plot/Oblivion Wing/Moonblast :O

Togekiss gets GEOMANCY too. Yeah.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Togekiss gets GEOMANCY too. Yeah.

speaking of which, how would geomancy diancie fare in the meta? especially when it can get access to power gem (like, finally, gamefreak).

 

[Adonzo]

Diancie still has a poop movepool, only having Psychic/Psyshock and HP, although she is certainly unique simply by being a special Rock-sweeper, which may be justification enough. This was a few years ago, but I think Obi determined that special Rock was the best type/spectrum combo in the game, at least at the time (Gen 4). The only other special Rock sweeper is Omastar.

EDIT: Also, 50 Speed is really slow even at +2

 

[Albacore]

Diancie still has a poop movepool, only having Psychic/Psyshock and HP, although she is certainly unique simply by being a special Rock-sweeper, which may be justification enough. This was a few years ago, but I think Obi determined that special Rock was the best type/spectrum combo in the game, at least at the time (Gen 4). The only other special Rock sweeper is Omastar.

We really, REALLY need more special Rock-type attackers in general. They're pretty much the most unexplored area of Pokemon competitive-wise
Besides Omastar, what exactly do we have? Cradlily? Doesn't that prefer a physical Curse/SD set? Aurorus? With that typing? The only other usable Rock-type special attacker is Archeops, which makes no sense because it's a physical attacker. We need an official Stratagem!

 

[As I Burn]

Nobody else is fearing the almighty Heal Order Shuckle again?

I never saw shuckle do that in my life

 

[Adonzo]

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Power Whip / Horn Leech
- Gunk Shot / Synthesis / Leech Seed
- Earthquake / Synthesis / Leech Seed

Yeah, try breaking this. Natural 80/123/120 bulk, only 2 somewhat uncommon weaknesses, decent base 100 Attack, poison immunity, 3 different forms of recovery... Mega Venusaur is probably the best Coiler in the game.

EDIT: Except for that part where it can't beat Skarm. Like, at all.

 

[DinaIsha]

Believe it or not, with all the OM craze, I thought about this exact Metagame three days ago and was deciding about getting it approved. I wasn't sure if it'd be a great idea. Well, what do you know. This OM is certainly going to be great.

Normal types have the upper hand, getting access to Shell Smash or Belly Drum and also having a wide movepool including the coveted ExtremeSpeed. Shell Smash Adaptability Porygon-Z comes to mind.

And the next best thing is, as well all know, Quiver Dance. Quiver Dance Accelgor, Yanmega, Galvantula would be some great options. You can even let them have 252 HP, seeing as how they'll be quick anyway.

Steel gets the next best set-up move. Shift Gear Scizor, Excadrill, Bisharp, Durant are all potent threats.

Oh, I forgot Geomancy. Slurpuff would be a great candidate. Mr. Mime too, as he can mess up special walls with Psystrike.

 

[SpartanMalice]

Been a long time since I posted in this, and considering this was my first OM ever, well...

Anyways, I was going through the critical hits thread earlier, and this is likely gimmicky but, I've been annoyed by many a Critdra before. In standard however, it's limited to Scope Lens. On the other hand, here it gets Crabhammer, which I believe has a crit rate of 2. With FE boosting it twice, that would bring it to the 100%, right? So it can use an item, preferably LO, plus the sniper boost. Maybe run Rain Dance. Similarly, anything with Aeroblast.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Believe it or not, with all the OM craze, I thought about this exact Metagame three days ago and was deciding about getting it approved. I wasn't sure if it'd be a great idea. Well, what do you know. This OM is certainly going to be great.

Normal types have the upper hand, getting access to Shell Smash or Belly Drum and also having a wide movepool including the coveted ExtremeSpeed. Shell Smash Adaptability Porygon-Z comes to mind.

And the next best thing is, as well all know, Quiver Dance. Quiver Dance Accelgor, Yanmega, Galvantula would be some great options. You can even let them have 252 HP, seeing as how they'll be quick anyway.

Steel gets the next best set-up move. Shift Gear Scizor, Excadrill, Bisharp, Durant are all potent threats.

Oh, I forgot Geomancy. Slurpuff would be a great candidate. Mr. Mime too, as he can mess up special walls with Psystrike.

Dont forget that Bug types also get Tail glow (Tail glow Surskit anyone?)

 

[Adonzo]

Been a long time since I posted in this, and considering this was my first OM ever, well...

Anyways, I was going through the critical hits thread earlier, and this is likely gimmicky but, I've been annoyed by many a Critdra before. In standard however, it's limited to Scope Lens. On the other hand, here it gets Crabhammer, which I believe has a crit rate of 2. With FE boosting it twice, that would bring it to the 100%, right? So it can use an item, preferably LO, plus the sniper boost. Maybe run Rain Dance. Similarly, anything with Aeroblast.

Critdra can actually do the same thing on the special side with Spacial Rend. Life Orb Spacial Rend hits just as hard as itemless (scope lens) Draco Meteor, while having better accuracy and also giving a 30% boost to Kingdra's other moves. Problem is that Crabhammer and Spacial Rend are the only high crit moves Kingdra has access to, leaving any coverage moves with only a 50% crit chance if you run Life Orb.

EDIT: The only other mons that can run Sniper Focus Energy are Beedrill, Octillery, and Fearow (picks up Focus Energy via Normal-typing), non of which are going to see a lot of play anytime soon. Beedrill can run it with Attack Order, Poison Tail, and Drill Run, allowing a full Life Orb set, but it's still Beedrill. Octillery's only high crit move is Crabhammer, forcing it to run Scope Lens, and even then it's still only good in Trick Room. Fearow gets Aeroblast but has a shitty SpA, and only has Slash and Drill Run on the physical side. Besides that, Focus Energy Fearow is outclassed by Shell Smash Fearow is outclassed by a dozen other Shell Smashers anyways.

 

[SpartanMalice]

I thought about Fearow initially, then later remembered it had shit SpA. If only Gen III crit mechanics worked this way, it would have been great there. I believe Salamence or something will have a better chance with Aeroblast, on a possible mixed set. Hell, Critdra can run mixed, don't see much of a problem with that. They don't have to have Sniper, it's basically set up that allows you to bypass stat boosts (read: Cosmic Power Clefable and the like).

And what about Multi-hit moves? Doesn't crit chance multiply with them? Take for example, Water Shuriken and Dual Chop. Both of which Kingdra has access to here.

 

[Adonzo]

Each individual hit has its own crit chance. Using Dual Chop as an example, both hits have a 50% crit chance at +2 (Focus Energy, no Scope Lens). This results in a 25% chance of both hits critting, 50% chance of only one critting, and a 25% chance of neither critting. This means a 25% chance of it being (after Sniper) 180 BP, 50% chance for 130, and 25% chance for 80. Comparatively, Dragon Claw would be 50% chance for 80 and 50% chance for 180. Both result in an average 130 BP, but Dragon Claw's output is spikier while Dual Chop's is more reliable. Of course, this doesn't take into account Dual Chop's 90% accuracy.

Focus Energy Dragon Claw/Dual Chop with a Life Orb comes to an average 169 BP (104-234). Comparatively, the same with a Scope Lens comes out to a guaranteed 180 BP, without Life Orb recoil. Running normal crit-rate moves without a Scope Lens isn't really worth it.

In the end, it's largely irrelevant to this meta. Critdra pales in comparison to many of the other sweepers available.

 

[EV]

I almost for a tiny second thought that since the DNA Splicer fuses and unfuses Kyurem with Reshiram/Zekrom, that meant they could trade Ice and Fire/Electric all up in that shiz. But that's not possible, right?

right?

Probably for the best. Kyu-B is already boss. It doesn't need Sacred Fire, too.

 

[En Passant]

Kyurem doesn't change types with its forms.