Ladder STABmons (the old one)

[EV]

Please post Pokemon and sets you think would be mandatory on a threatlist. And keep up the good work on your homework.

 

[canno]

Here's a rough sketch as to what I think the threatlist should be

Threatlist

Sawsbuck @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
Ability: Sap Sipper / Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Lovely Kiss / Jump Kick
- Shell Smash / Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Horn Leech / Power Whip

Espeon @ Fist Plate
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Judgment
- Stored Power / Psystrike
- Shadow Ball / Lovely Kiss

Sylveon @ Earth Plate / Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Judgment / Lovely Kiss
- Rapid Spin / Whirlwind
- Soft-Boiled

Sylveon @ Earth Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature / Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Judgment
- Shell Smash
- ExtremeSpeed / Recover

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature / Timid Nature
- Blue Flare
- Roost / Dragon Pulse
- Solar Beam
- V-create / Oblivion Wing / Dragon Pulse

Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature / Naive Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Stone Edge / Fire Blast

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Play Rough
- Rock Slide

Scizor @ Scizorite / Lum Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Attack Order
- Superpower / Bullet Punch

Talonflame @ Sitrus Berry (Totally didn't steal Deoxymoron's set. Nope)
Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Adamant
Evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Belly Drum
- Acrobatics
- V-Create / Flare Blitz
- Roost / Steel Wing / Lovely Kiss

Talonflame @ Life Orb / Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash / Sword Dance
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire / V-Create / Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed / Roost / Lovely Kiss

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Superpower / Ice Punch

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Water Shuriken
- Play Rough
- Waterfall

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent / Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Night Daze
- Dark Void / Ice Beam / Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Hydro Pump / Hidden Power [Fighting]

Greninja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 30 Spd
- Spikes
- Dark Void
- U-turn
- Crunch

Greninja @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
Ability: Torrent / Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 4 Atk / 252 SAtk
Hasty Nature
- Dark Void / Toxic Spikes
- Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Hydro Pump / Ice Beam
- U-turn / Taunt

Greninja @ Lum Berry
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn / Hidden Power [Fire]

Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Spd / 4 Atk / 252 SAtk
Hasty Nature
- Electrify
- Thunderbolt
- Oblivion Wing
- U-turn

Jolteon @ Earth Plate / Flame Plate / Icicle Plate
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Electrify
- Thunderbolt
- Judgment
- Volt Switch

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- ExtremeSpeed
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch

Hawlucha @ Choice Band
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat / High Jump Kick
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

Pyroar @ Fist Plate / Life Orb / White Herb
Ability: Unnerve / Moxie
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature / Naive Nature
- Shell Smash
- Boomburst
- Blue Flare
- Judgment / ExtemeSpeed

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Topsy-turvy
- Foul Play / Taunt / Parting Shot
- Dark Void / Will-O-Wisp / Parting Shot
- Recover / Destiny Bond / Parting Shot

Alakazam @ Focus Sash / Life Orb / Alakazamite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Psystrike
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Encore / Substitute / Disable / Calm Mind

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite / Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge / Crunch
- Superpower / Stealth Rock / Dark Void

Togekiss @ White Herb
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 SDef / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Geomancy
- Aeroblast
- Aura Sphere / Fire Blast
- Roost / Moonblast

Forretress @ Leftovers / Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Sticky Web / Stealth Rock / Heal Order
- Spikes / Heal Order / Powder
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin / Heal Order

Ellipses sets
Ursaring @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- ExtremeSpeed
- Close Combat / Fire Punch
- Crunch

Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Ghost / Bug / Ice / Electric] / Icy Wind / Sleep Talk

I missed a ton of threats on the list, so feel free to shout at me suggest other threats or other sets on the threats I posted.

EDIT: added Ellipses sets

 

[ellipse]

Old reliable:
Ursaring @ flame orb
Ability: guts
Adamant/jolly
4 hp/ 252 atk/ 252 speed
-fake out
-extremespeed
-close combat/fire punch
-crunch

Keldeo @ choice scarf
Ability: justified
Timid/modest
4 hp/ 252 sp atk/ 252 spd
-water spout
-hydro pump/surf
-secret sword
-sleep talk/ hp electric/ hp bug/ hp ghost

Yanmega @ focus sash
Ability: Speed boost
Timid/ modest
4 hp/ 252 sp atk/ 252 spd
-tail glow
-bug buzz
-aeroblast
- hp fighting

Aerodactyl @ Focus sash / aerodactylite
Ability: Rock head
Adamant/ jolly
4 hp/ 252 atk/ 252 spd
-Head smash / stone edge
-brave bird
-earthquake
-taunt/ stealth rock

Cloyster @Lum Berry/ kings rock/ forcus sash/ life orb
Ability: skill link
Adamant/ jolly
4 hp/ 252 atk/ 252 spd
-water shuriken
-icicle spear
-rock blast
-shell smash

Lucario @ lucarionite
Ability: justified or steadfast
Adamant
4 hp/ 252 atk/ 252 spd
-shift gear
- high jump kick/ close combat/ mach punch
-gear grind/ bullet punch
-mach punch/ bullet punch/ shadow claw/ blaze kick

Edit: I was assuming that you were creating the official threatlist, so I posted the sets for you anyways, and I added a few more now that I'm on my computer

 

[canno]

Old reliable:
Ursaring @ flame orb
Ability: guts
Adamant/jolly
4 hp/ 252 atk/ 252 speed
-fake out
-extremespeed
-close combat/fire punch
-crunch

Keldeo @ choice scarf
Ability: justified
Timid/modest
4 hp/ 252 sp atk/ 252 spd
-water spout
-hydro pump/surf
-secret sword
-sleep talk/ hp electric/ hp bug/ hp ghost

Yeah, Ursaring is still really good in the meta in my opinion with Fake Out + Extremespeed. MegaKangaskhan gives it a lot of competition though, as it can run the same exact set. Still, Ursaring doesn't lose to Sabeleye like Kangaskhan does.

Keldeo is also pretty good with its really powerful Water Spout, especially with a Choice Scarf. I added both sets to my threatlist if you don't mind.

 

[Halliday]

Also add the classic Transform chansey, who has the niche of walling sylveon to hell and back, as well as Smashpeon who still abuses the incredibly strong stored-power. Oh, and PH gliscor which manhandles a lot of status abusers such as sawsbuck or sableye.

 

[Adonzo]

Scizor @ Scizorite / Lum Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Attack Order
- Superpower / Bullet Punch

One thing I'd like to point out here to no one had really noticed, is that Scizor now gets a buffed Technician Pin Missile. With 112.5 BP on average, capping at 187.5 BP, this is absolutely the Bug-STAB of choice on most Scizor sets.

EDIT: Here's another old, severely underrated threat from last gen and my favorite Extreme Speeder, working even better now with the nerf to Steel-types.

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity/Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Attack
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Extreme Speed
- Crunch
- Recover

Curse can also be replaced with Belly Drum and a more offensive spread, and Recover with Earthquake for perfect coverage, but priority and recovery solve the biggest hurdles Curselax had.

 

[Halliday]

Speaking of Snorlax, I just had an idea for a set: Assaultlax! With assault vest, Snorlax's SpD reaches ridiculous levels, and STABmons gives it the tools to abuse it. With extremespeed to overcome it's mediocre speed, Snorlax with assault vest is fully capable of abusing it's amazing bulk and coverage.

 

[EV]

Keep up the good sets/threats! I added Power Herb Geomancy Gardevoir, too. I think it's worthy of considering with the same Speed and Special Defense as Togekiss, plus 5 more in Special Attack. Which is better: Trace vs. Serene Grace? Psychic/Fairy vs Flying/Fairy? Gardevoir also gets Stored Power, which as we saw with Espeon, is dangerous with 3 +2 boosts. Both have good movepools, too.

 

[canno]

Keep up the good sets/threats! I added Power Herb Geomancy Gardevoir, too. I think it's worthy of considering with the same Speed and Special Defense as Togekiss, plus 5 more in Special Attack. Which is better: Trace vs. Serene Grace? Psychic/Fairy vs Flying/Fairy? Gardevoir also gets Stored Power, which as we saw with Espeon, is dangerous with 3 +2 boosts. Both have good movepools, too.

I feel that, in general, Togekiss is better than Gardevoir. If we compare stats, we get
Togekiss
85 / 50 / 95 / 120 / 115 / 80
Gardevoir
68 / 65 / 65 / 125 / 115 / 80

As you can see, Togekiss is much more bulky than Gardevoir thanks to its higher HP and its actually pretty good defense. Not only that, but it's coverage is better than Gardevoirs imo. Aeroblast / Air Slash / Oblivion Wing + Aura Sphere gives it really good coverage, allowing for Roost or Air Slash as an option. Meanwhile, Gardevoir has to use up all 3 moveslots for coverage. Not only that, but Moonlight is Gardevoir's best recovery move. Kiss does have a SR weakness, and Trace is a pretty cool ability to be honest (Air Slash Serene Grace is better imo). Not only that, but it has Stored Power for some crazy shenanigans, and unlike Espeon it actually has bulk, at least on the special side. So yeah, Kiss is better in general, but Voir is like Espeon and Kiss had a baby.

 

[Monte Cristo]

I feel that, in general, Togekiss is better than Gardevoir. If we compare stats, we get
Togekiss
85 / 50 / 95 / 120 / 115 / 80
Gardevoir
68 / 65 / 65 / 125 / 115 / 80

As you can see, Togekiss is much more bulky than Gardevoir thanks to its higher HP and its actually pretty good defense. Not only that, but it's coverage is better than Gardevoirs imo. Aeroblast / Air Slash / Oblivion Wing + Aura Sphere gives it really good coverage, allowing for Roost or Air Slash as an option. Meanwhile, Gardevoir has to use up all 3 moveslots for coverage. Not only that, but Moonlight is Gardevoir's best recovery move. Kiss does have a SR weakness, and Trace is a pretty cool ability to be honest (Air Slash Serene Grace is better imo). Not only that, but it has Stored Power for some crazy shenanigans, and unlike Espeon it actually has bulk, at least on the special side. So yeah, Kiss is better in general, but Voir is like Espeon and Kiss had a baby.

this is the one thing that gardevoir has that is envied by togekiss: psystrike
+2 252 SpA Gardevoir Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 421-496 (59.8 - 70.45%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
double goemancy/geomancy + smash is a great core because it beats chansey to death till one of them sweeps

 

[yikes]

Hi guys, I have found an underrated Pokemon that may make a splash in the STABmons metagame with its super-powerful priority. Crawdaunt.

w/ Adaptability
Adamant/Jolly, 4HP/252A/252SP, @ Choice Band
-Aqua Jet/Water Shuriken
-Knock Off/Crunch
-Crabhammer
-Crunch/Superpower/Switcheroo

Crawdaunt's sky-high Attack, coupled with Adaptability, makes his Water priority moves hit like a truck. The choice between Aqua Jet and Water Shuriken is up to you. I prefer Water Shuriken, however. Knock Off is there for absurd STAB power when Knocking Off an item, and Crunch is there for reliability. Crabhammer is there to smack anything that resists Knock Off/Crunch with absurd power on the switch. Crunch is in the last slot for reliability, but there's also Superpower for coverage or Switcheroo for utility.

w/ Adaptability
Adamant/Jolly, 4HP/252A/252SP, Life Orb/Leftovers/whatever
-Swords Dance
-Dark Void
-Water Shuriken/Aqua Jet
-Sucker Punch

This set can hit like a truck with a Swords Dance up. Dark Void is to ease setup, and the twin priorities speak for themselves. Sucker Punch can hit like an eighteen-wheeler with priority if this thing gets an SD up. However, it is weak to opposing priority, so that can easily stop it.

So, what do you think of Crawdaunt?

 

[EV]

What about DD over Swords Dance?

 

[Ash Borer]

Im thinking water shuriken is better than aqua jet, if it hits 3, 4 or 5 times then it does superior damage. If it hits twice, it is weaker, but not by such a huge change that it will be massively important, yes?

 

[Sewa]

Maybe it was already brought up by someone but can't find it.
What happens to those few pokemon which changed typing with the new generation?
Will we let them by 'passed via Pokèbank' and gain access to their old type moves? I.E. Granbull with Extreme Speed, Meloetta with Judgement...

 

[copycatcat]

Maybe it was already brought up by someone but can't find it.
What happens to those few pokemon which changed typing with the new generation?
Will we let them by 'passed via Pokèbank' and gain access to their old type moves? I.E. Granbull with Extreme Speed, Meloetta with Judgement...

It's the "No Gen Jumping types" clause.

 

[Adonzo]

Meloetta did not change type - or at least, we won't know until pokebank.

As to the question...

+CLAUSES

• Standard OU banlist
• Sleep, OHKO, Species, Evasion, Moody in effect
• Sketch is banned except on Smeargle
• No Gen jumping types (An example would be Togekiss keeping its Normal typing from Gen 5. Since I'm trying to keep things simple, I decided not to allow it.)

EDIT: Ninja'd

 

[yikes]

Im thinking water shuriken is better than aqua jet, if it hits 3, 4 or 5 times then it does superior damage. If it hits twice, it is weaker, but not by such a huge change that it will be massively important, yes?

I know, I like it more. I just did Aqua Jet first because, well, I don't know why...

What about DD over Swords Dance?

Maybe, but I think the +1 speed isn't that necessary due to the twin priorities.

 

[EV]

Oh, duh. Too bad it's so frail. It has a hard time switching in. And its Dark typing isn't doing itself any favors with Fairies, but that Adaptability Sucker Punch hurts.

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

Is there supposed to be a ladder for this right now? Because I finally got time to start playing and there doesn't seem to be one on the main server.

 

[yikes]

Oh, duh. Too bad it's so frail. It has a hard time switching in. And its Dark typing isn't doing itself any favors with Fairies, but that Adaptability Sucker Punch hurts.

But if it can get a free switch-in, Dark Void a check, then set up a free SD, it's golden.

 

[Adonzo]

For the front page threatlist, I suggest replacing all mentions of Aqua Jet with Water Shuriken. It is just completely outclassed except in the case of Tough Claws Barbaracle.

EDIT: I would also mention Powder on Forretress and Scizor's entries. They are both huge Fire bait, and even the threat of Powder, without it even being on the set, can deter the opponent from attacking their only weakness.

EDIT2: The more I think about this meta, the more I want to start playing it again. Hurry up and get a Gen 6 ladder on PS!

 

[Sewa]

Wow, pretty dumb. I checked it 3 times and still didn't see it, sorry @_@

Has anyone thought about MegaMawile yet? It gets one of the best stat-boosting moves of the game in the form of Shift Gear.
A set with Shift Gear/Gear Grind/Play Rough/Crunch(or Sucker Punch or even baton pass) can wreck.

Mr. Mime can be a monster too:
I still didn't think about the EVs, but w/Power Herb and Geomancy/Stored Power/Moonblast/HP ground it can hit anything pretty hard.

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

Wow, pretty dumb. I checked it 3 times and still didn't see it, sorry @_@

Has anyone thought about MegaMawile yet? It gets one of the best stat-boosting moves of the game in the form of Shift Gear.
A set with Shift Gear/Gear Grind/Play Rough/Crunch(or Sucker Punch or even baton pass) can wreck.

Mr. Mime can be a monster too:
I still didn't think about the EVs, but w/Power Herb and Geomancy/Stored Power/Moonblast/HP ground it can hit anything pretty hard.

Mr. Mime is so physically frail, that I wouldn't think of using it as a sweeper without some way of boosting defense. Otherwise, you're just going to be picked off by priority. Passing it some defense boosts would also make his Stored Power more powerful. Also, since you're running Technician for HP Ground, you might want to consider Draining Kiss over Moonblast. Less power, but you recover 75% of the damage dealt, so that might be worth while.

Edit: 100th post yay!

 

[Adrian Marin]

I think Mr. Mime should be used with Soundproof, this allows it to wall Sylveon and other Boomburst Pokemon, it can recover damage through Moonlight and potentially be used in a Baton Pass team with its nice Perish Song immunity.

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

How well do Baton Pass teams do in STABmons? I imagine that with the higher distribution of powerful boosting moves like Shell Smash, Shift Gear, etc, baton passers get ignored in favor of boosting sweepers 99% of the time, but I don't know if it offers many advantages over them. Defense boosts can help make things take priority better, which every sweeper must be able to do. My Celibi set that was in the homework a while ago was designed to support Espeon by making it completely unphazeable. I guess Focus Energy could be passed to other sweepers, so that when Sableye reverses their stat boosts they are still hitting as hard as they would have at +1. Is it worth while to dedicate all that support and spend several turns setting up, instead of just grabbing a Shell Smasher or two and having them set up themselves? If it is, can you prevent Sableye from shutting you down partway through setup?