Stalemates and Trolling in Balanced Hackmons (Or Why Heal Pulse Should Be Banned)

[ntiller]

I still don't understand why anyone would think how long you can click a button is something a turn based strategy game should test, especially given that in any other turn based strategy game such tactics are banned. Also, my remark was intended to point out that any turn based strategy game that gives an advantage to a player with an auto clicker is flawed. The emoticon was simply an expression of my opinion that that concept is kinda ridiculous. Sorry if it offended you. Lastly, can try explaining why points like "turn based strategy games should not allow for tests of mechanical endurance" are flawed? I really don't understand where you're coming from. This is especially true because there's precedent: Wobbuffet was banned for similar reasons.

 

[youngjake93]

Sure a metal trapper spiritomb acupressure baton passer to a prankster jirachi with stored power/copycat/ and fighting move will doom anyone. However this is besides the point, the point is that your being hypocritical. You cant ban something that in your eyes sucks. Btw i would like to say that the use of an auto clicker (which you mentioned up above) is something that I have never used, and never will use. Doing such a thing would be despicable and unfair in all aspects, using it would strip the meaning of the set away. There have been several occasions where I have given the game.

Deciding to troll people and waste their time with an everlasting game is good for this metagame, but autoclickers are despicable? You do realize that winning because you have no life and can afford to spend hours in an everlasting battle is a lot more pathetic, right?
Why the irrational hate toward computer programming, but an unnatural love for the art of pissing people off?



Anyway, if this strategy gave you an auto win and was preventable, I don't see a point in banning it because like others have said "you shouldn't fall for it". However, you don't win, you just change the game from Pokemon into a no-lifing contest. This should be banned/dealt with as what it is, an unintentional broken game mechanic AKA glitch. When you think about it, this is not utilizing a strategy, it's abusing a glitch. It may not be the most game-breaking glitch, but it is a glitch all the same.

Also, the OP ignores other arguments leading to an unproductive thread...

 

[Pikachuun]

And going back up to @pika dont forget knock off.

I didn't. Rachi can just Recycle the Leppa Berry that got knocked off. Hurray for forgetting basic mechanics for 2 seconds!

 

[Adrian Marin]

I didn't. Rachi can just Recycle the Leppa Berry that got knocked off. Hurray for forgetting basic mechanics for 2 seconds!

Just a note, this was from the Recycle analysis: "Recycle fails if the user was not holding an item, if the item was a popped Air Balloon, or if the item was lost to Bug Bite, Covet, Incinerate, Knock Off, Pluck, or Thief." Recycle cannot restore Knocked Off items.

I just want to say that even if Heal Pulse is banned, Me, gtfo, and klang have about 5 different ways to use the same strategy without it. how??? better not say it or else mewtwo will try to get all those other ways banned. The problem is, these alternatives are WAY harder to get banned because the abilities have other uses. Please stop trying to ban one of the most annoying strategies created in BH, it really is just fantastic. Hurray for not noticing Pikachuun saying he did a mistake!

 

[Pikachuun]

Just a note, this was from the Recycle analysis: "Recycle fails if the user was not holding an item, if the item was a popped Air Balloon, or if the item was lost to Bug Bite, Covet, Incinerate, Knock Off, Pluck, or Thief." Recycle cannot restore Knocked Off items.

Hence the reason why I put "Hurray for forgetting basic mechanics for 2 seconds!" 2 seconds after I posted that, I read the analysis and saw that you can't recover those items. It was just a stupid mistake on my part. Hurray for not noticing Adrian saying that he didn't notice that I made a mistake!

 

[ntiller]

I just want to say that even if Heal Pulse is banned, Me, gtfo, and klang have about 5 different ways to use the same strategy without it. how??? better not say it or else mewtwo will try to get all those other ways banned.

Now, as Klang, gtfo and others have pointed out, banning Heal Pulse might not be able to entirely remove these scenarios. Rather than banning Leppa Berry (which I do not advocate, as it certainly does have other uses), I would say that prolonging a battle in this way should be handled in the same way as timestalling. At the very least, the victim should be able to declare a draw if the trapper does not attempt to allow the battle to progress. There needs to be some consistent way of resolving this situation that does not test either player's willingness to mindlessly click a button- if button clicking is a skill that a competitive game can and should test, why doesn't pokemon showdown use the level up system? Making players click buttons for the sake of clicking buttons is stupid, mindless and cruel. It adds nothing of any strategic value to the game. Let's have a consistent community policy for handling situations like these, one that doesn't give an unfair advantage to the player with the auto-clicker :p

I think I've already addressed this. Rather than banning things, treating this strategy as either timestalling or an auto-draw is a much more efficient way of resolving these situations quickly and without resorting to using factors outside the game to determine the outcome.

 

[-Sparkbeat-]

The dumbest part about this is the fact that anyone would even use this strategy, because you're not guaranteed to win from it, and instead you're just wasting your time as well as whoever you're playing's time. I'm not a BH player, so I don't have much to say. I just wanted to point out that this is a really really stupid strategy, and if anything just ban the combo of Heal Pulse + Leppa Berry or some combo that wouldn't be used on any other set. Allowing irl factors to determine the outcome of a match is just plain dumb. And, when using this strategy, if you're not trying to win, you're losing.

 

[Adrian Marin]

Why do you all play pokemon?? you play to have fun. Why do we use that strategy? Because it's just really hilarious and fun to use, simple.

 

[ntiller]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there are more people that think it's not fun than there are people that think it's fun. Also, I'm going to guess that, if stuff like this rises in popularity, the overall growth of the tier will diminish as players decide this otherwise amazing meta simply isn't worth their time. Regardless, the issue is not really how "fun" it is. The issue is that it tests something which has no business being tested in a competitive turn based strategy game. If official policy decides to always treat these situations as a draw, that would be okay. If it is decided that doing this is timestalling, that would be okay. However, simply saying that the player who can click longer wins just seems incredibly ridiculous, especially since things have been banned in the past for similar reasons.

 

[Arcticblast]

This thread has pretty much devolved into pointless arguing now. Verbatim has made his statement already and nothing new is being brought up, so I'm locking this.

Also, this set will now be forever named Dickrachi, because you're a dick if you use it regularly.
(Imagine Dickrachi vs. Harvest Shuckle... *twitch*) (god I hate these smilies)