stall me not my favorite song but it fits the thread so well Genny Edit Genny's approval: [1/1] This thread is for discussing: How stall's viability has been affected by the bans of Excadrill and Thundurus What Pokemon / moves / techniques / playstyles help beat stall First of all, I want to note that the recent bans have made stall much better. Thundurus and Excadrill were possibly the two most dangerous Pokemon against stall. For example, Excadrill completely screwed over stall. You cannot spinblock Excadrill. At all. You can bring in your ghost but it's going to be at risk to a +2 Earthquake (unless it's Gengar, but that dies to Rock Slide). Or, you can bring in Gliscor and get your hazards spun away and have Excadrill switch out into something that doesn't fear Gliscor (read: the majority of the metagame). Now, Gliscor is actually viable on stall teams, so you can switch into Excadrill just fine. But it's still wearing stuff down, spinning out your hazards... it doesn't help that it's immune to two of the most common statuses in OU. Now that Excadrill is gone, how will that move the metagame, and in turn how will that affect stall? Excadrill being gone seems to allow heavy offense to shine, and how will stall deal with that? Now that Gliscor isn't a near-necessity on stall teams, what Pokemon will fill that role as a physical wall? Right now I am seeing a fairly sizable uptick in the usage of Skarmory. Skarmory seems to be a superior physical wall to Gliscor as it can phaze, it has better coverage with one stronger attacking move, and it isn't completely useless against levitators. It also has a way of taking advantage of turns it gains by laying down Spikes. This is certainly a benefit stall has gained: it can deal with Dragon-types better and can run arguably superior or at least better-fitted Pokemon for whatever the team needs. This also may mark an end to the age of "run HP Ice on X physical attacker to beat Gliscor." Skarmory isn't nearly as easy to break with HP Fire, so other ways must be sought to eliminate it. I'll cover those in a later section of this post. Slowbro is also an excellent physical wall, being one of the few bulky waters that easily vanquish Ferrothorn. Regenerator allows it to switch in again and again- thoughts on its possible popularity in the future? Moving on to spinblocking. Since Excadrill is gone, Jellicent has gotten much better. It beats basically every spinner in existence as well as having an extremely useful typing, reliable recover, and also being one of the best stallbreakers in existence. BW stall and balanced used to involve spinblockers not being necessary; I've seen several RMTs where a Ghost-type was never deemed necessary, even on a spikestacking team. That is likely to change. Now that spinblocking is "possible", beating stall will become much harder than slapping a Forretress / Tentacruel / Starmie on to spin away those pesky hazards. Add this to how easy it is to lay hazards in the first place -- Ferrothorn, the ultimate hazards platform, combined with Deoxys-S, the ultimate suicide lead -- and it's easy to see how much better stall can be. That being said, how can you beat stall? There seem to be four main options of beating stall: Stat boosting Strong Choiced / Mixed Attackers Spinning / Other Stallbreaking Techniques Trapping Stat boosting. Oftentimes the best way to smash through a stall team is to weaken it gradually until you can bring in a Swords Dancer or a Nasty Plotter to sweep. Since the two premier users of both moves are gone, what will fill the void? Terrakion is probably all around the best stat booster in the meta. With Gliscor popularity dropping likely as not, it can easily come in, Swords Dance, and proceed to wreck opposing teams, fearing only a Stone Edge miss. It does have issues with Celebi and Slowbro as well as whatever revenge killers a stall team may run, but overall it is a solid choice, albeit being vulnerable to hazards and status. Celebi was once UU this gen, but it has really shined as a Nasty Plot sweeper. It, along with Virizion, is the bane of rain stall, only really being stopped by a Chansey or a Blissey. SubDD Dragonite easily sets up on and threatens a lot of Pokemon in stall. Yes, Steel-types wall it, but that's why trapping used. There are also other excellent Sub Boosters such as Latias; however, Dragonite seems to be the most effective one right now. Strong Choiced / Mixed Attackers. Perhaps one of the most infamous ones is CB Haxorus. While it has been extremely effective in the past -- largely helped by Gliscor being more popular than Skarmory -- with Gliscor dropping out of the limelight and Skarmory becoming more and more popular, its effectiveness may be falling. Another Dragon-type is possibly the most common Specs user -- Latios. Tyranitar usage shows no indication of dropping, but on teams that can eliminate it as well as steel-types from the picture, Latios can often switch in with impunity to smash things with a Draco Meteor. As for mixed attackers, Salamence is still a great mixed attacker that can come in, spam Draco Meteor, and Roost again and again. Infernape is also extremely effective, threatening pretty much everything in OU. Spinning seems to be less effective for the reasons stated before; Jellicent is better than ever. Donphan looks like it's getting more common as a spinner, and Trick Starmie seems like another possibility. Unfortunately, all spinners will have issues with Jellicent. Other Stallbreaking Techniques includes lots of things. For example, I can speed creep my Jellicent, block my opponent's spin, and Taunt stallbreak them. Mew is also one of the best stallbreakers out there. Calm Mind Espeon can often singlehandedly defeat full stall teams, as can Swords Dance Gliscor... though Gliscor can't sweep anything but stall. Trapping is a fun one. Wobbuffet is possibly one of the most overlooked stallbreakers in existence. It can switch in on a lot of pokes, Encore a recovery move, and Tickle or PP stall them out of recovery to bring in a Pursuiter. Dugtrio is not as effective against stall but forms the other half of "Wobbtrio" as well as handling pokes like Heatran and Tyranitar. Magnezone is also extremely useful in a DragMag combination, eliminating steel types for Dragon-types to wreak havoc. Well, that's all I have for now. How has stall changed with the bans? What new pokes are extremely effective on stall? How about against stall? I'll try and edit good ideas into the OP when I find the time. Final note: please don't just list things, give an explanation. Bare-boned lists killed the other thread.