Other Stall

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I highly recommend AV Torn-T to anyone building a stall team. His lack of a strong, reliable STAB is unfortunate for offensive teams looking to use this great mon, but stall teams don't really need hurricane to hit every time. The mere threat of a hurricane is enough to force out knock off absorbers like Gliscor and mega Venu so you can knock off every other mon's item. Superpower is great for killing Tyranitar (you out run scarf variants), and u-turn is borderline retarded on something that has regenerator.

He's finally getting some well-deserved usage (OU level last month!) and I suggest new stall players learn to use him well before everyone else catches on.

I just think full stall is flat-out shit. You NEED more offensive presence than just a zard x or scizor. Semi-stall isn't much better, but at least it has something resembling offensive presence. I just think you need to settle for checking the bigger threats(hera, medi, garde, terra, mew etc.)and countering the rest. you can't counter the meta anymore, and its just too apparent this gen. Gen 6 was the point where a balanced meta became somewhat impossible, because the power creep is too great. Unless something drastic happens next gen, I feel pokemon is doomed to an inherently imbalanced meta.
No. With the knock off buff, defog buff, reducing damage on crits, and lack of permanent sun/rain, stall is better than it has been since gen 3. It's the most consistent play style by far for ladder play on Showdown.

because the ladder is generally mediocre, and shitty stall/semi-stall>shitty offense users
I've played almost everyone currently in the 1900+ range on Showdown, and few are mediocre.

The reason stall is good on showdown is consistency. Stall won't lose to someone using quick pass Espeon + Smeargle with dual screens, assuming you 1) don't get haxed like hell and 2) you build your team well. A lot of well-built offensive teams can and will lose in that situation because offense just doesn't have a counter for that. It's a lot easier for stall to put dragon tail on something to counter Espeon than it is for offense.
 
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I highly recommend AV Torn-T to anyone building a stall team. His lack of a strong, reliable STAB is unfortunate for offensive teams looking to use this great mon, but stall teams don't really need hurricane to hit every time. The mere threat of a hurricane is enough to force out knock off absorbers like Gliscor and mega Venu so you can knock off every other mon's item. Superpower is great for killing Tyranitar (you out run scarf variants), and u-turn is borderline retarded on something that has regenerator.

He's finally getting some well-deserved usage (OU level last month!) and I suggest new stall players learn to use him well before everyone else catches on.



No. With the knock off buff, defog buff, reducing damage on crits, and lack of permanent sun/rain, stall is better than it has been since gen 3. It's the most consistent play style by far for ladder play on Showdown.



I've played almost everyone currently in the 1900+ range on Showdown, and few are mediocre.

The reason stall is good on showdown is consistency. Stall won't lose to someone using quick pass Espeon + Smeargle with dual screens, assuming you 1) don't get haxed like hell and 2) you build your team well. A lot of well-built offensive teams can and will lose in that situation because offense just doesn't have a counter for that. It's a lot easier for stall to put dragon tail on something to counter Espeon than it is for offense.
like i said smog frog upper ladder is dominated by stall, which isn't crap.

also with how uncommon espeon is these days trying hard to just find a dragontail user just for espeon restricts team building
 
I highly recommend AV Torn-T to anyone building a stall team. His lack of a strong, reliable STAB is unfortunate for offensive teams looking to use this great mon, but stall teams don't really need hurricane to hit every time. The mere threat of a hurricane is enough to force out knock off absorbers like Gliscor and mega Venu so you can knock off every other mon's item. Superpower is great for killing Tyranitar (you out run scarf variants), and u-turn is borderline retarded on something that has regenerator.

He's finally getting some well-deserved usage (OU level last month!) and I suggest new stall players learn to use him well before everyone else catches on.



No. With the knock off buff, defog buff, reducing damage on crits, and lack of permanent sun/rain, stall is better than it has been since gen 3. It's the most consistent play style by far for ladder play on Showdown.



I've played almost everyone currently in the 1900+ range on Showdown, and few are mediocre.

The reason stall is good on showdown is consistency. Stall won't lose to someone using quick pass Espeon + Smeargle with dual screens, assuming you 1) don't get haxed like hell and 2) you build your team well. A lot of well-built offensive teams can and will lose in that situation because offense just doesn't have a counter for that. It's a lot easier for stall to put dragon tail on something to counter Espeon than it is for offense.
What I meant by this is the fact that Mega Heracross and Mew are rising in popularity, and those two just utterly DESTROY stall. Ladder is infamous for being behind the times, and Stall being consistent is a myth, because A: its matchup based beyond belief and B: its really easy to pressure stall if you make good plays, so you have to make unsafe predictions to impose your rhythm.
 
What I meant by this is the fact that Mega Heracross and Mew are rising in popularity, and those two just utterly DESTROY stall. Ladder is infamous for being behind the times, and Stall being consistent is a myth, because A: its matchup based beyond belief and B: its really easy to pressure stall if you make good plays, so you have to make unsafe predictions to impose your rhythm.
Mew in OU is a stall mon, so I would consider Mew being popular a sign that stall is doing pretty well.

Mega Heracross is beaten by hazard damage, predictions, and flying move users such as my aforementioned AV Torn-T or aerial ace Gliscor. Mega Venu can switch in on a close combat and force him out, and fast Heatran can switch in on a pin missile. You say offense can pressure stall by making good players; well, stall can pressure offense by making good plays.

like i said smog frog upper ladder is dominated by stall, which isn't crap.

also with how uncommon espeon is these days trying hard to just find a dragontail user just for espeon restricts team building
You say "dragon tail restricts team building," I say "dragon tail gives you the opportunity to beat something that other play styles can't." Don't use dragon tail if you don't mind losing to geomancy pass teams.
 
Mew in OU is a stall mon, so I would consider Mew being popular a sign that stall is doing pretty well.

Mega Heracross is beaten by hazard damage, predictions, and flying move users such as my aforementioned AV Torn-T or aerial ace Gliscor. Mega Venu can switch in on a close combat and force him out, and fast Heatran can switch in on a pin missile. You say offense can pressure stall by making good players; well, stall can pressure offense by making good plays.



You say "dragon tail restricts team building," I say "dragon tail gives you the opportunity to beat something that other play styles can't." Don't use dragon tail if you don't mind losing to geomancy pass teams.
Mew is a stallbreaker, and probably the best at that. Also, Mega Heracross essentially gets a kill every time it comes in if the opposing player isn't mediocre/you have shitblade. And just the fact that Mega Heracross is in the game means you have to make unnecessarily risky plays, which may or may not get you killed. And fast Heatran needs upwards of max speed to jump Heracross. There is also the fact that Mega Heracross forces switches, so you get hazard damage on yourself too, which means you have to heal up, which in turn gives Heracross free turns.
 
Mew is a stallbreaker, and probably the best at that. Also, Mega Heracross essentially gets a kill every time it comes in if the opposing player isn't mediocre/you have shitblade. And just the fact that Mega Heracross is in the game means you have to make unnecessarily risky plays, which may or may not get you killed. And fast Heatran needs upwards of max speed to jump Heracross. There is also the fact that Mega Heracross forces switches, so you get hazard damage on yourself too, which means you have to heal up, which in turn gives Heracross free turns.
Mew is a stallbreaker... who only fits on stall. Again, the fact that he is good is proof that stall is good.

Mega Hera does not get a free kill every time he comes in. He has to predict correctly to get those kills. You used close combat on that Chansey, and the stall player switched to Gliscor? No kill for you. You used rock blast, expecting Gliscor to come in, but Chansey stayed in and used toxic? Sucks for you.

Mega heracross is slow as shit and can't actually OHKO everything like you make it out to. It's very possible to play around. Yes, it's the biggest threat to stall out there, way bigger than Medicham and Gard, but it's not unbeatable by any means. He's also pretty rare in general -- he's still UU in usage.
 
Mew is a stallbreaker... who only fits on stall. Again, the fact that he is good is proof that stall is good.

Mega Hera does not get a free kill every time he comes in. He has to predict correctly to get those kills. You used close combat on that Chansey, and the stall player switched to Gliscor? No kill for you. You used rock blast, expecting Gliscor to come in, but Chansey stayed in and used toxic? Sucks for you.

Mega heracross is slow as shit and can't actually OHKO everything like you make it out to. It's very possible to play around, and I've done it quite a few times.
Mew only fitting on stall is blatantly incorrect...it can fit on balance, bulky offense, heck, even some offense teams. its (near)unparalleled ability to break stall is appreciated on a LOT of teams. And Mega Heracross should ALWAYS SD on the Chansey, because its going to get kills regardless if it gets poisoned or not. And what on stall can outspeed fully invested base 75? some Heracross even run Jolly. It's just near impossible to play around Heracross without shitblade if you are against someone with any skill at all, while you may have some skill too, you need to make INCREDIBLY risky plays to beat Heracross.
 
Mew only fitting on stall is blatantly incorrect...it can fit on balance, bulky offense, heck, even some offense teams. its (near)unparalleled ability to break stall is appreciated on a LOT of teams. And Mega Heracross should ALWAYS SD on the Chansey, because its going to get kills regardless if it gets poisoned or not. And what on stall can outspeed fully invested base 75? some Heracross even run Jolly. It's just near impossible to play around Heracross without shitblade if you are against someone with any skill at all, while you may have some skill too, you need to make INCREDIBLY risky plays to beat Heracross.
If Hera SDs and Torn-T or Latias or anything faster than base 85 with a flying move comes in, you're forced out.

Stall has plenty of answers for Hera. We don't need to get in to each individual situation.
 
What I meant by this is the fact that Mega Heracross and Mew are rising in popularity, and those two just utterly DESTROY stall. Ladder is infamous for being behind the times, and Stall being consistent is a myth, because A: its matchup based beyond belief and B: its really easy to pressure stall if you make good plays, so you have to make unsafe predictions to impose your rhythm.
doublade, gliscor, unaware clefable can sort of counter mega hera. Many other things can check it like fairies or faster things.

mew can be dealt with
 
gliscor can't beat SD hera, and clefable dies after rocks

doublade i'll give, altho its shit

and you kinda need zard x on your stall to beat mew
It avoids ko and kos back or even possiblly before with aerial ace.

wish+protect can help mitgate rocks.

doublade actually really good right now.

Most fire types can beat mew.
 
aerial ace gliscor is ass

you switch in on the rock blast, and wish on the second rock blast(aka, ur ded)

doublade is literal deadweight agains teams without pinsir/hera/garde/cham

the only fire that beats mew is zard, heatran loses too but it isn't worth all the PP thats needed.
beating a huge threat is pretty good.

first hera has to rock blast and have rocks up.
then you protect for leftover recovery
wish and ok chance of surviving

zard y also beats mew w/o rocks up.
victini does also (which i don't like)
gliscor also decent match up

it is a huge problem poke tho.
lot of times mew gets into 50 50s where it has to chose between healing or taunting.

Lots of stall pokes can be dead weight, but countering 4 of the deadliest megas pretty good niche
 
A fast Pokemon is becoming more necessary on stall. Not just for Hera/Gard/Medicham, which are kinda overrated, but for a lot of the other really dangerous stallbreakers too - Swords Dance LO Garchomp/Haxorus, Swords Dance + Tailwind Charizard X (the best stallbreaker there is imo [and the most broken thing in OU]), Mega Pinsir, Nasty Plot Infernape... Mega Aerodactyl is great at the moment. Latias is also good, beating Landorus nicely.

Jirachi is the best Gardevoir counter stall has, and it can nicely check some others like Latis, CM Clefable, Staraptor, non-EQ Mega Pinsir. Can Wish pass, so it adds support to the team rather than requiring it like Doublade. It will soon become a staple, I am sure. I run Shed Shell because stall really doesn't need more Pursuit Bisharp issues (assuming SS does work against Pursuit)
 
A fast Pokemon is becoming more necessary on stall. Not just for Hera/Gard/Medicham, which are kinda overrated, but for a lot of the other really dangerous stallbreakers too - Swords Dance LO Garchomp/Haxorus, Swords Dance + Tailwind Charizard X (the best stallbreaker there is imo [and the most broken thing in OU]), Mega Pinsir, Nasty Plot Infernape... Mega Aerodactyl is great at the moment. Latias is also good, beating Landorus nicely.

Jirachi is the best Gardevoir counter stall has, and it can nicely check some others like Latis, CM Clefable, Staraptor, non-EQ Mega Pinsir. Can Wish pass, so it adds support to the team rather than requiring it like Doublade. It will soon become a staple, I am sure. I run Shed Shell because stall really doesn't need more Pursuit Bisharp issues (assuming SS does work against Pursuit)
I wouldn't say you NEED a fast mon, but it certainly is a viable path you can go down. I've noticed that some people prefer to check down certain threats with a faster one, such as Scarf Latias for Lando-I and Zard X. As for Gardevoir, there a few good answers. Mega Scizor is awesome because he can Defog; Bronzong is great as he can lay SR; Doublade requires support, but handles the Three Horseman of the Stallpocalypse (I said it first--y'all saw it here); and as you said, Jirachi can help assist a cleric in healing your team.
 
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I feel checking those threats isn't quite good enough.
Victini is 2hko by HJK after SR
heracross does major damage also

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 202-238 (62.3 - 73.4%)
can't ko back either.

Jirachi is pretty good tho.

Keldeo and Pinsir countering is pretty important tho

and smog frog last i checked semi stall was topping the ladder
Victini is aiming for a burn most of the time... I mean, in practice, Adrian and Monte both claim it is incredibly good for them. Starmie... I definitely wouldn't use it as my only answer, but if I were to couple it with say a sableye, I might find it worth while. I mean, I prefer doublade since it saves me a teamslot comparatively and gives me all three countered+pinsir+latis+starmies/other psychics.

Just ignore smog frog as a general rule of thumb, esp with stall.
 
Victini is aiming for a burn most of the time... I mean, in practice, Adrian and Monte both claim it is incredibly good for them. Starmie... I definitely wouldn't use it as my only answer, but if I were to couple it with say a sableye, I might find it worth while. I mean, I prefer doublade since it saves me a teamslot comparatively and gives me all three countered+pinsir+latis+starmies/other psychics.

Just ignore smog frog as a general rule of thumb, esp with stall.
don't be a poopyhead meanie :(
 
I feel checking those threats isn't quite good enough.
Victini is 2hko by HJK after SR
heracross does major damage also
Assuming you kept hazards off the field, just wanted to point out that Victini can avoid the 2HKO from HJK.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Victini: 159-187 (39.4 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Stalltini is great against the big three (assuming Mega Garde doesn't have Shadow Ball), as long as you have hazard control. I mean, look at this:
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Victini: 360-430 (89.3 - 106.6%) -- approx. 12.5% chance to OHKO

That's Adamant Mega Heracross.

With a spread of 248 HP / 100 Atk / 108 Def / 56 Speed with a Jolly nature, Victini outspeeds Mega Heracross, avoids the 2HKO from any normal Mega Medicham attack, any non-Shadow Ball Mega Gardevoir attack, and OHKOs all three with V-create.

100 Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 246-289 (94.2 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
100 Atk Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 304-358 (109.3 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
100 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 380-450 (104.3 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Even bulky Mega Heracross is OHKO'd.

Entry hazards are an issue, of course, but if you can keep them off your side, then Victini becomes an amazing answer to the Big Three.
 
Is using M-Aero as a check to Landorus, Zard-X, and as counter for M-Pinsir too many roles for Aero to take on? Also, what is the Aero set people use on stall teams?
 
Assuming you kept hazards off the field, just wanted to point out that Victini can avoid the 2HKO from HJK.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Victini: 159-187 (39.4 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Stalltini is great against the big three (assuming Mega Garde doesn't have Shadow Ball), as long as you have hazard control. I mean, look at this:
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Victini: 360-430 (89.3 - 106.6%) -- approx. 12.5% chance to OHKO

That's Adamant Mega Heracross.

With a spread of 248 HP / 100 Atk / 108 Def / 56 Speed with a Jolly nature, Victini outspeeds Mega Heracross, avoids the 2HKO from any normal Mega Medicham attack, any non-Shadow Ball Mega Gardevoir attack, and OHKOs all three with V-create.

100 Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 246-289 (94.2 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
100 Atk Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 304-358 (109.3 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
100 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 380-450 (104.3 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Even bulky Mega Heracross is OHKO'd.

Entry hazards are an issue, of course, but if you can keep them off your side, then Victini becomes an amazing answer to the Big Three.
Yet it can really only stop them once, which isn't really reliable.
 
real talk tho

granbull is shit, no doubt about that, but it can stop heracross, medi terrak and some other misc shit

also has heal bell but use clefable for that

i built tesung a granbull team, and it used

Granbull @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Roar
- Play Rough

roar was because it works on ogre in ubers and all its other support is kinda outclassed
 
Is using M-Aero as a check to Landorus, Zard-X, and as counter for M-Pinsir too many roles for Aero to take on? Also, what is the Aero set people use on stall teams?
No, it's not.

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Roost
- Aqua Tail
- Aerial Ace / Stone Edge / Earthquake

Well, the EV spread is my own, I just stole Tesung's moves. I personally used Ice Fang over Aqua Tail on mine, but Aqua tail takes care of most rock type bird spam checks. The speed will beat pinsir-mega in base form. In mega, it can outspeed 125 base speeds with full invest and + natures (basically, faster than everything in OU not named Manectric/Weavile). Also Talonflame if not jolly so...

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 204 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 227-267 (62.5 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 192-228 (70.8 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That's kinda why I like stone edge, but aerial ace does have better coverage.
 

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doublade is literal deadweight agains teams without pinsir/hera/garde/cham
this isn't even true. firstly it handles cham, gard, and hera excellently. it's a meh pinsir answer imo but can definitely check it if needed. it checks lati@s, it counters terrakion, and beats stallbreaker aero. plus, its gyro isn't that weak. this dead weight aspect is heavily exaggerated and misrepresents a rather useful pokemon overall.
 
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