Other Stall

[jpw234]

I've seen a slight spike in LO Kyu-B and BD Azumarill, but nothing too crazy with regard to all-out stallbreakers.

 

[jbtc10]

Since getting counterteamed bad like a week ago playing stall on ladder, I stopped playing, (also due to finals) Are people still running hard stall breakers on ladder or can I actually play stall on ladder now?

I've had a few months off playing on the ladder but when I got back into it this week I realized my experience has been similar to yours; almost every team I face now, even lower level ones, are packing a rather obnoxious stall/wall breaker and their teams in general are pretty mean to stall due to the new megas and the way teams are now designed around them. This has made playing stall much more unpleasant and difficult. Balanced offense seems to be the best playstyle right now because they can simply throw a stall breaker like Manaphy on their team to basically deal with a whole playstyle and not being deadweight against other styles, while still having 5 other team members to optimize against the rest of the meta. Afterwards I built a balanced team and was having a lot more success with it than pure stall. It seems like a team full of walls isn't as good as it once was, but it's still viable.

 

[Ajwf]

I'd talk about how you should really be preparing for stallbreakers right from the get go but the team I need some major help on gets shattered by quite a few stall breakers so it's not really the time to be talking about that...

MAlt Stall

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Roar
- Defog
- Flash Cannon

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 154 Def / 104 SpD
Bold Nature
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Heal Bell
- Hyper Voice

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 104 HP / 248 Def / 156 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Mirror Coat
- Scald

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Wood Hammer
- Drain Punch
- Leech Seed

Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Skill Swap
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight
- Shadow Ball

So this is the team that OrdA and I designed... it's a very, very solid team but it just gets broken by some threats that are too common for my liking. These threats are MG Clefable (which last mons this team like no other) and TG RD manaphy. Endeavor leads are kinda a bitch too since end+Pursuit takes a life, guaranteed. That's kinda a rare niche problem but I'm not a fan of losing alomomola or worse, Rhyperior, so early.

Some other less important threats: MAlt itself... I think this is just a product of bad bulk spread on Emp but I couldn't think of a good spread. Conkeldurr is kinda a hassle, although we can handle it if we get MAlt evolved. This generally requires a wish pass from Alo to MAlt (which almost always draws a drain punch and not an ice punch so all is good). Wisp Zard stall is annoying but still beatable.

The fixes I have tried: First, I made an Amoongus>Chesnaught switch, since hey it kills off most MG clefs with Clear smog. Doesn't always beat RD manaphy, but gives you a chance. Loses to Bisharp more often than not, though. Spike stacking is completely gone. It was probably the most decent switch, if I recall correctly. This one was also much shakier (outright loses when BD) to azumarill given knock off. Oh... I think ice pokemon became a bigger issue, too (weavile was the main one).

Secondly, I tried replacing MAlt out for Charizard-Y, replacing Cress for Jirachi and empoleon for Tentacruel. Also not a bad change, but now you have issues with rocks like crazy, meaning Landorus gets closer to sweeping you if you can't take out the hazards. You're also in a more precarious situation against Sable teams since even though Zard counters Wisp and beats the hell out of Sable, Flamethrower is not powerful enough in a defensive format. And yes, you get beaten to hell on the ground attacks... Cress/Alt gone, exchange for one flying on non-roost turns and three ground weaknesses on roost turns.

I actually ended up reworking the entire team into a bulky offense team under Mega Latias with how many changes I tried making (the only remaining character was Chesnaught to help clear darks).

Don't get me wrong: the team is very good... We won every single match it played the first day and to this point I've only lost one match with it (I think I have roughly 20...). Would've rolled right through a tour had I not gotten bored after four rounds of 100+ turn games and forfeited out. However, Orda has been finding flaws more than I have, due to this being more his primary team (I have that Bro team). It's really the issue of not being able to take on MG Clef without losing to something else... and really not knowing how you could ever take on RD manaphy without royally screwing everything else up. If it wasn't 2-attack, I can mirror mola it but any time Psychic is involved, GG. I know that it isn't possible to cover every threat, but leaving such a bad one wide open is not a good idea.

(Just so we're clear, the reason that Unaware Clef isn't an issue is because I Skill Swap Unaware with Clefable and laugh as they fail to do anything more than Neutral). I have heard that Psycho shift Cress isn't a bad idea, but remember that it is currently working to take Gardevoir-mega and Landorus-mega. Outside of that, it just sits there and absorbs special attacks while bugging them with Skill Swap.

 

[jbtc10]

Heart Swap Manaphy could theoretically deal with both MG Clefable and TG RD / CM Manaphy in a single slot, as well as a few other annoying set-up sweepers like CroCune. The set would be something like Scald / Energy Ball / Heart Swap / Toxic or Filler @ Lefties. Toxic allows it to beat any Clef set regardless of its ability since if it's Unaware you just cripple it with status and then steal away its boosts after a few CM's and then potentially counter sweep.

Ferro is another option for TG RD Manaphy, but doesn't simultaneously handle Clef since pretty much every sweeping set is carrying a fire move. Ferro + CM Unaware Clef was a nice core I've made use of on many of my past stall teams which handles both of those threats while being very solid against the general meta.

Edit: Managed to dig up an old replay of me vs Halcyon showing the Ferro + CM Unaware Clef core in action; http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-167662751

 

[HolyAvatar]

MAlt Stall

cf his post

So this is the team that OrdA and I designed... it's a very, very solid team but it just gets broken by some threats that are too common for my liking. These threats are MG Clefable (which last mons this team like no other) and TG RD manaphy. Endeavor leads are kinda a bitch too since end+Pursuit takes a life, guaranteed. That's kinda a rare niche problem but I'm not a fan of losing alomomola or worse, Rhyperior, so early.

Gengar is also a huge threat:
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 510-603 (134.2 - 158.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 411-485 (96.9 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 205-244 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 104 HP / 156+ SpD Alomomola: 265-312 (53.3 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Mega Altaria: 338-400 (95.4 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 244-289 (65.5 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I know it is very hard to prepare for it. It also destroyed my balanced team :(.

 

[tehy]

edit: @awjf

You could swap out something for Toxic (ideally,give Alomomola it instead of Mirror Coat, since it kind of becomes lolbait without toxic imo). Toxic Clefable, then skill swap it with Cresselia. Voila! Edit: Toxic alomo gives you a legit WispZardX forceout too.

Something i've actually been running on my stall is SpD CM BP Celebi (you could go Phys.D), and that takes care of most manaphys (bar the all-out offensive which, you do have roar empo and you can take 1 Ice beam most likely with Cele to polish it off). Against Clefable, just CM to max and

4 SpA Empoleon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 206-246 (52.2 - 62.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(206, 210, 212, 216, 216, 218, 222, 224, 228, 230, 230, 234, 236, 240, 242, 246)

Unless it gets fairly lucky with Moonblast in the first two turns or so,you got it. Plus

+5 4 SpA Empoleon Flash Cannon vs. +6 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(182, 182, 186, 188, 192, 192, 194, 198, 198, 200, 204, 206, 206, 210, 212, 216)

And they usually go for Flamethrower on Celebi anyhow.

This also lets you dominate CM Bro and CM Cune, who otherwise can be irritants to your team (an early burn on chesnaught, even with it packing Leech Seed, means you have to go Heal Bell, and at that point either of them may have accumulated enough boosts to 2hitko right through Chesnaught the next time it comes in. And that assumes that both chesnaught and Malt are alive.)

That said, it only makes you weaker to Bisharp, so sorry if that's a deal breaker.

Also consider tenta>empo; Spin is cool, Tspikes are cool, Acid Spray lyfe (can take on gengar to a greater extent which is nice since, as above said, that's a potential problem for your team). If you want to ubersmash Mguard fable, Spray+bomb can obviously work too. Ofc this also gives you some great checking capabilities for BD Azu.

Edit: Triple hazards lyfe also btw; that's some nostalgic shit. With Msaur dropping out of the picture (2 bad tenta's rising tho) tspikes suddenly aren't lolabsorbed. Even though they don't affect a lot of Pokemon, it's quite helpful for those that they do affect, despite the burn immunity Dx. Also, you don't really have a solid switch-in for Zard Y, espc. modest Zard Y which can muscle past the stuff you're running, tenta can pivot in and force it out; not perfect but it gives you a nice buffer against it.

 

[56k]

Gonna second (third?) the danger that gengar presents to all the teams I've built. While it is true that tentacruel usually beats it, it typically finishes the fight at such low % that it can never do anything useful like spin in the rest of the match. That's not always the case though -- I've taken to running enough speed on tenta to outspeed timid specs gothitelle and that actually speed creeps an awful lot of stuff, so even though tenta gets out of the gengar fight at 20% hp or so it can still sometimes come back in later for a spin or knock off against stuff like adamant mamoswine or slow gliscors or slow mews or whatever. I've been awfully surprised many times at just how slow people are running their stallbreakers/wallbreakers. But the problem is that since tentacruel was forced in to deal with gengar it can leave me open to something like heatran or greninja. I will definitely be defaulting back to porygon2 on the next team that I make for a damn ghost immunity that I otherwise never seem to have.

 

[Ajwf]

You can actually use Gliscor to counter Gengar, too. Spdef does a nice job. For this team, Mirror Mola is enough. It's a nice surprise hit on Gengar and an easy Ohko. There's obviously an issue if it subs, yes, but LO Gengar is going to run a sub much less commonly.

The Celebi sounds interesting... I think I'd have to place it over Chesnaught, which means I have a bisharp issue, so taking Cress out for Gliscor isn't a bad response. That still takes care of Landorus, but leaves an issue with Gardevoir and Azumarill. Azumarill is a huge deal breaker because I can still survive a hyper voice gard and ohko it with Mirror Coat from Alomomola if needed. One of the huge reasons we went to mirror Mola was to give us a chance vs special threats we didn't explicitly cover.

I guess I could try taunt Gliscor alone, as it lets Clef get to +1 but forces it out with EQ damage as Clef can't recover. Still has an issue with TG RD manaphy, but that's not terrible.

 

[metmaver]

Ajwf, talking about that Alomomola, its EVs spread is inefficient. You need a bold nature to maximize its stats. With 104 EVs in HP, 184 in Defense and 220 in Special Defense, you reach the same stats with a nice +8 points in defense. If you want those points in spdef just run 104 in HP, 156 in Defense and 248 in Special Defense or something similar.

Alomomola (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 104 HP / 184 Def / 220 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

Also, as someone else suggested, Toxic seems a decent option to better deal with some threats over Mirror Coat.

 

[jbtc10]

You can also drop Scald if need be since with Mola it's literally just there to pray for the 30% burn chance and is a wasted turn if it doesn't happen, you might as well have tried your luck with Sheer Cold if it were legal. Wish/Protect/Mirror/Toxic is a viable set. Food for thought.

 

[HolyAvatar]

I guess I could try taunt Gliscor alone, as it lets Clef get to +1 but forces it out with EQ damage as Clef can't recover. Still has an issue with TG RD manaphy, but that's not terrible.

It needs knock off or those spdef def drops will be the death of you.
What set are you thinking about?
Taunt/knock off/earthquake/protect?
Without protect you risk the 2hko:
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 156-185 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

I will definitely be defaulting back to porygon2 on the next team that I make for a damn ghost immunity that I otherwise never seem to have.

I had P2 but it still broke through me :(.
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 172-203 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Sun King]

Alrighty, this is gonna be my first serious post in this thread since ORAS came out because I FINALLY got some ladder time in to figure out the new meta (was AWOL in battling for a while). I just want to bring up the discussion we had earlier about comparing and contrasting, as Ajwf highlighted, the "Three Big M-Evos" we got for stall (those being M-Sableye, M-Slowbro, and M-Altaria). I think each of the three are extremely viable in our metagame, as the metagame is still very young and undeveloped in regards to stall breaking cores. As such, Stall is probably more viable than it has ever been since before we lost Aegislash.

Mega Sableye

Wow--where do I start. So I just stole TheKingKarp 's team (here) and tested out Sableye stall. Holy. Shit. This thing can switch in on SO MANY things and just laughably set up in their face. It pretty much invalidates Ferrothorn, Mew and any passive stall breakers, to name just a few things it can set up on. As Ajwf posted earlier, it is somewhat reminiscent of "Hazard Control" stall teams of days past; it's got a unique way of playing, and teams ABSOLUTELY revolve around Mega Sableye. As such, you see multiple Fairy resists on teams with it, and I can see that as a point of weakness in the future because Offensive players will start packing things to overwhelm those Fairy resists (the smart ones are already doing that). Magnezone's presence is unpleasant to that extent, and so is Gothitelle's for the Poison-Types. One last note about Mega-Sableye is that if you can keep it healthy, it's always going to be a major factor in the game; in other words, it's ability just lets it accomplish so much just by being alive. Bouncing status, hazards, or Taunt back is extremely useful, and Sableye's typing lets it switch into A LOT. Very, VERY fun Mega to play with.

Mega Slowbro

Say hello to two Pokemon defensive cores--everyone get your Chanseys ready, because ChansBro is the new SkarmBliss. Mega Slowbro has a similar feel to all those VenuTran teams in XY because you can just sit there and rely on your bulk. Obviously, you need to make some aggressive plays, but it's basically just an amazing Skarmory that can actually kill stuff. I think it requires more skill to use well than the other two Megas purely because there is a balance you need to strike between bulk and Regenerator--that is--you need to time when you Mega Evolve. Mega Sableye and Mega Altaria both have the luxury of (generally) being better evolved, but Mega Slowbro really misses out on that Regenerator healing. You need to keep an eye on that health bar and make sure it can tank hits and Slack Off the damage before you switch it out. All in all, it's a great Mega Evolution.

Mega Altaria

This is probably the most interesting Mega to me purely because of that typing. It's, to say the least, really awesome. Additionally, Altaria packs a decent punch with Pixilate Hyper-Voice (I prefer special Altaria because you can hit behind Pokemon that try to dodge your team with Substitute). Probably the most valuable asset though is Heal Bell. Because Altaria can run Heal Bell, you can actually free up some pressure on your other clerics. I, for example, tested out running Thunder Wave over Heal Bell on my Chansey; turned out that being able to cripple things like Terrakion really helps alleviate the pressure on your teammates in killing it, as they have to stomach fewer hits. I know that move was a little unorthodox, but it was relatively effective for my team. Personal experience aside, I'd say that Altaria gives you more freedom with your clerics because you can run a cleric core instead of relying on just ONE full cleric. It lets you run Alomomola without putting too much extra pressure on the rest of your team (the two have excellent type synergy). As far as how it plays, I'm a little let down by the bulk; if only it could carry Leftovers, that would make things a lot easier. If, however, you can get it in safely, it'll do the job quite nicely.

In conclusion, I guess I'd like to just thank Game Freak for giving Stall more variety. These three Megas have certainly breathed new life into the play style, and I would expect offense to centralize around beating these three. They're all essential to their teams, and each have unique builds that come with them. I look forward to experimenting more with each of them in the future and seeing what new Pokemon have creative and defensive niches as a result of them being in our metagame (for example Stalltini in XY).

Later folks!

Sun King

 

[YoYoNerd]

Mega Latias got a 20 point spDef boost and a 30 points Def boost. Not worth a mention?

 

[jbtc10]

Mega Latias got a 20 point spDef boost and a 30 points Def boost. Not worth a mention?

Definitely is worth a mention and a 30 point SpA boost never hurts either nor does a reduced Knock Off weakness. It definitely has the potential to be a strong centerpiece for stall, but it does face a bit of competition from Altaria due to its better typing.

 

[YoYoNerd]

Yeah I agree. Defog is a valuable asset though especially on an SR neutral mon and psychic typing is not bad. If anything, the biggest downside of psychic is that the steel changes makes it hard to easily cover weaknesses. Idk, would like to see her more often because all I see is CM Stored Power.

 

[Jukain]

The problem with Mega Latias stall is that it inherently makes you weak to Pursuit-based cores i.e. TTar + Char Y/Keldeo/Landorus, which is crippling enough for it to be unviable.

 

[YoYoNerd]

You can leave a slot for Reflect and remedy that weakness.

 

[Ajwf]

It needs knock off or those spdef def drops will be the death of you.
What set are you thinking about?
Taunt/knock off/earthquake/protect?
Without protect you risk the 2hko:
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 156-185 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 176 SpD / 88 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Roost

If I need to maneuver, I will. However, all I've seen on this page besides tehy is suboptimal sets... Bending so far backwards you lose functionality vs other threats is not a good idea. Unless Gengar is getting that 2hko, he's dying or switching out.

 

[Reverb]

I've been using the following Tyranitar set to handle stall:

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

It's EV'd for maximum power and to outspeed Skarmory (it its 180 speed). The rest is for bulk which lets it live two LO Latios DM or a DM+EQ. Crunch is for STAB and for MegaBro and Cresselia, among other threats. Pursuit is to trap. Stone Edge will do around 75% to Clefable switch-ins. Finally, Superpower does 90%+ to Chansey. I should note, however, that if you are suspecting a Chansey switch, you can use Pursuit to do ~45% to Chansey.

 

[jbtc10]

Anyone else tried using Gourgeist now that it has access to Synthesis? I've tried out the XL aka Super version and most notably, it counters Diggersby and Keldeo, the former being especially alluring due to the scarcity of counters and unlike the fading in popularity Skarm, it can't be trapped by Zone or even Goth either. It spin blocks Exca like no other, laughs at Breloom and also does well against Terrakion and Conk (yes, that's actually not a bad selling point, I'm sure you've all built stall teams that get surprisingly annoyed by Conk). Grass switch-ins get punished with a Wisp and Fires get hit with Leech Seed. It's not the greatest mon or anything, but it has an acceptable niche now.

Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Pickup
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SpD
Impish Nature
- Seed Bomb / Shadow Sneak
- Leech Seed
- Will-O-Wisp
- Synthesis

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-192157441

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

jbtc10 thing is diggerby not particular common, keldeo can burn it and I believe hp fly is 2hkp, Terrak Stoneedge hits hard, Conk knock off hurts and if its guts wisp just makes it stronger.

 

[56k]

I put sceptile on a stall team to deal with the rotom-wash half of volt-turn strats. Outspeeding greninja and latias (prevent a healing wish) is nice. I noticed that in a lot of my games, while sylveon indeed counters latias, it actually gives it the chance to healing wish back up into the otherwise almost dead azumarill, heatran, whatever they have.

Not to mention outspeeding keldeos, gengars, manaphys, and so on. Sure he's kinda weak but that's the whole point of the stall team around him, to wear stuff down with hazards and status (and for gods sake kill the talonflames). He's pretty cool - I added a few extra HP evs in there to be able to survive more landorus-t u-turns more comfortably as well. But this dropped my speed down to only manetric levels so I can't tie with bees or other sceptiles. Interestingly, all I ever use is giga drain, dragon pulse, and earthquake. I've tried all kinds of random stuff in the last slot from leaf storm to worry seed to leech seed to HP fire, I literally change it almost every match without noticing a difference in the games.

Why does something so frail possibly have a place on stall? Because stall brings everything down into killing range for him.

 

[jbtc10]

jbtc10 thing is diggerby not particular common, keldeo can burn it and I believe hp fly is 2hkp, Terrak Stoneedge hits hard, Conk knock off hurts and if its guts wisp just makes it stronger.

It's not the best Keldeo counter by any means, but it has the typing to be able to do so and you can invest more EV's in the special side to your liking to make it more of a comfortable counter. HP Flying isn't particularly common anymore either. Conk gets seeded and Knock Off does nothing after the first one and he can't recover with Drain Punch like he can against other things like Skarm, guaranteeing the damage you do to him stays permanent.

@56 sounds like you might as well go the whole hog and dump everything into speed for Sceptile since a clutch tie with Beedrill and opposing Sceptiles is probably bound to happen at some point and I doubt you'll miss that slight bit of extra HP. No idea why you'd be factoring Lando U-Turns into your spread, he has no business in taking multiple U-Turns from Scarf-T. HP Fire is probably a better choice in that last slot over the others you mentioned, since Scizor/Ferro troll the rest of your set pretty badly, but then you do lose that 1 speed point so you'd be back to missing out on Beedril and M-Sceptile again, but that's a minor detail compared to what the extra coverage does for you.

 

[56k]

I've started using bronzong for it's unique coverage of handling diancie, gliscor, landorus-t, latis and even some landorus-Is as well. There's much less stress on sylveon for teams that have multiple dragons or fairies, for example. At the moment I'm just using this regular old set:


Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]

I realize someone may criticize bronzong's shortcomings compared to say skarmory or ferrothorn but I think it's important to note that he can actually hit heatran, magnezone, diancie, etc really damn hard. Stall sometimes scoops up real niche pokemon from lower tiers and I'm really liking him on the team that I'm using (with sabeleye, sylveon, talonflame, tentacruel, and a random 6th poke)

But I was wondering how I could alter the EVs and IVs? For example, can I lower my speed IV (for better gyro ball) but still keep HP Ice? Also, how should I shift bulk around if at all? Max def seems pretty solid so far but I suppose there's random weak HP Fires out there, stuff like that, to pay attention to.

 

[Seth Vilo]

I've started using bronzong for it's unique coverage of handling diancie, gliscor, landorus-t, latis and even some landorus-Is as well. There's much less stress on sylveon for teams that have multiple dragons or fairies, for example. At the moment I'm just using this regular old set:


Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]

I realize someone may criticize bronzong's shortcomings compared to say skarmory or ferrothorn but I think it's important to note that he can actually hit heatran, magnezone, diancie, etc really damn hard. Stall sometimes scoops up real niche pokemon from lower tiers and I'm really liking him on the team that I'm using (with sabeleye, sylveon, talonflame, tentacruel, and a random 6th poke)

But I was wondering how I could alter the EVs and IVs? For example, can I lower my speed IV (for better gyro ball) but still keep HP Ice? Also, how should I shift bulk around if at all? Max def seems pretty solid so far but I suppose there's random weak HP Fires out there, stuff like that, to pay attention to.

The easiest way to address the HP Ice issue is this: give Bronzong 0 Spe IVs, leaving all the others at 31. In older generations, that was only a base 68 powered HP, but with the new mechanics, that doesn't matter anymore and you're good to go. Although I'll say that I've found Toxic to be an awesome replacement in the last slot. Bronzong sucks momentum away, and is begging to have things come in a set up on it, like Charizard-X, Talonflame, and Mega Gyarados. CM Stored Power Mega Latias is something terrifying that only Toxic Bronzong can stop by spamming Gyro till it can't make a Sub, and nailing with Toxic as it Roosts; otherwise Latias just stalls you out of Gyro PP, and HP Ice can't do enough back. The only thing you really miss out on is nailing Lando (I or T) and Gliscor hard; however, these frequently have Knock Off, so even with HP Ice it's risky.