I was considering a Tentacruel and M Sableye combo, if it runs Psychic (I feel it's the least likely coverage move too) Sableye can take a Psychic. SpD Dragonite sounds interesting. How does Tentacruel beat it though? Acid Spray and Scald?
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Other Stall
- Thread starter ShootingStarmie
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While you are correct with your other Pokemon counters, MegaG still loses to Energy Ball.
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 326-384 (98.4 - 116%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Energy Ball vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 326-384 (92.3 - 108.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Even if MegaG switches in and Manaphy happened to use Rain Dance or Surf, Manaphy is free to set up a Tail Glow and KO on the next turn.
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 163-193 (45.1 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 246-289 (68.1 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I have been playing Stall a lot lately. Here is my team: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-stall-is-real.3525738/
On the current discussion about how to stall Manaphy. Imo the best mon out there to stall Manaphy is obviously Clefable. Unaware > Manaphy.
252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable in Rain: 127-150 (32.2 - 38%) -- 1.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
On the current discussion about how to stall Manaphy. Imo the best mon out there to stall Manaphy is obviously Clefable. Unaware > Manaphy.
252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable in Rain: 127-150 (32.2 - 38%) -- 1.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I have a question about clefable, well it pertains to clefable.
I have one bred with aromatherapy that I'm going to be using 252 hp/ 160 def/ 96 sp.def and is there any difference between heal bell and aromatherapy? On pretty much all of the sets I see heal bell mentioned but I thought they both had the same pp and did the same thing.
I have one bred with aromatherapy that I'm going to be using 252 hp/ 160 def/ 96 sp.def and is there any difference between heal bell and aromatherapy? On pretty much all of the sets I see heal bell mentioned but I thought they both had the same pp and did the same thing.
The only real difference used to be that Heal Bell didn't work on Pokemon on your team with Soundproof. As of generation V, this is no longer the case. The only difference now is that Aromatherapy is breedable on Clefable, while Heal Bell will cost you shards for a tutor to teach it.
EDIT: As to why only Heal Bell is mentioned, I think it's just cause more things learn it, so it is just mentioned everywhere else more as well. I cannot think of any differences between the two.
In practise, burns make this about 15x harder and wastes Heal Bell PP and Clefable typically struggles to keep up.
Sableye + Tentacruel is a nice combo because Tentacruel takes on the Fairy-types Sableye hates. Add Jirachi and you got yourself a standard M-Sableye core lol. Tentacruel can indeed use Acid Spray and eventually rain boosted Scald's to defeat it or at least weaken it for something else to finish the job. Rain Dish is also really funny and makes it even harder for Manaphy to beat.
Panda
You're right lmao, I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that sentence.
Would you recommend Rain Dish over Liquid Ooze? I feel like beating up Ferrothorn would be kinda nice (though Sableye sets up all over Ferro anyways). Only problem I see is two EQ wesknesses, but that can be worked around.
Liquid ooze is generally better in all scenarios for the mentioned ferrothorn and mega Venusaur.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. I normally run HO or balanced offense, so stall is super new to me but I *really* like Mega Sableye so I want to use it.
Like boltsandbombers said, Liquid Ooze is generally more useful. Rain Dish really screws over rain teams though, so if its your primary answer to Water-type monsters such as Manaphy and Omastar I would choose Rain Dish.
Been running stall quite a lot recently, been having quite a bit of success. Do you guys have any solutions to deal with Mega Gardevoir, it's the one threat that my team really struggles to deal with atm.
For the guy asking about how to deal with manaphy, I have a set which I think is pretty good on stall. It's basically calm mind blissey, this is the set I run;
Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 6 SpA / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
Seems pretty gimmicky but it can switch in and beat a lot of pokemon that stall generally has trouble with instead of just sitting around doing nothing which chansey/blissey generally end up doing, because let's face it, no decent team doesn't have a way to deal with standard blissey/chansey.
For the guy asking about how to deal with manaphy, I have a set which I think is pretty good on stall. It's basically calm mind blissey, this is the set I run;
Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 6 SpA / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
Seems pretty gimmicky but it can switch in and beat a lot of pokemon that stall generally has trouble with instead of just sitting around doing nothing which chansey/blissey generally end up doing, because let's face it, no decent team doesn't have a way to deal with standard blissey/chansey.
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
SpD Jirachi is a very good answer to Mega Gardevoir and other fairies like Clefable
Victini (248 hp / 100 SpD) Mega Scizor and Bronzong also beat it.
Chansey can beat it if played well because Seismic Toss is a 3HKO and Psyshock doesn't 3HKO the 252 HP / 252+ Def set
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What does it handle that normal Blissey can't just use Toxic or Thunderwave on? Anything that can deal with the standard Chansey will probably destroy that Blissey as well.
Its low defense and speed means it's going to be forced out a lot, so using Calm Mind instead of status will often just be a waste. Especially on stall, which is all about swapping out to counter opposing threats.
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
Yeah Blissey is pretty much outclassed by Chansey in gen 6 (sand and hail in gen 5 made it better then) outside of beating Gengar and Knock Off Landorus-I
It basically beats Sp. att boosting sweepers, and you're never meant to sweep with it. Examples of stuff it can beat are the aforementioned rain dance rest manaphy and calm mind clefable. I'd be curious as to what you guys are using to handle manaphy?
SketchUp I was considering replacing my heatran with jirachi actually, i'm just concerned as to whether I'll be able to handle mega sableye in that case though.
SketchUp I was considering replacing my heatran with jirachi actually, i'm just concerned as to whether I'll be able to handle mega sableye in that case though.
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Just want to give Stall player a warm hug before Hoopa Unbound gets into the game and destroys everything you love and enjoy :(
Someone says that every time a new stallbreaker is released. Stall will adapt, as it always has.
This thing OHKO's Chansey after a Nasty Plot, which in other words means it can't even switchin on it because it gets 2HKO(no lefties)
Blissey gets OHKO after Nasty Plot without any boosting item like Life Orb
It has 160/170 offenses and better couverage than Kyurem Black alongside a wall breaker boost move in Nasty Plot
all rounded off with 80/60/130 bulk (80/60 sux, 80/130 is hype)
It only weakness is bug, while 4x weak to it, I don't recall stall with Uturns. Might adapt to it though.
Just to make clear what I mean with couverage compared to Kyurem Black:
Gunk Shot, Dark Pulse, Hyperspace Fury, Focus Blast, Elemental Punches etc.
It has a rich movepool
It's a struggle just to find checks to Hoopa's Nasty Plot set:
Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
There's Mandibuzz, who can still get KO'd by +2 Focus Blast after rocks. And Foul Play doesn't OHKO back vs a special set (still does a lot, 63-75%). Or if Hoopa is really paranoid, it can just fry Mandibuzz with Thunderbolt but it doesn't seem Thunderbolt has much other use (all I can think of is to avoid the 50/50 with Gyarados mega turn)
Klefki can come in and limit the damage with a status move, but if Focus Blast connects after that it's gone.
Drapion looks like it has the right typing but Focus Blast does too much...Hoopa can OHKO even an Assault Vest set at +2 with Focus Blast, and while Drapion can speed creep it, it can't OHKO first. Not worth it considering how shaky it is combined with being fucking Drapion. It looks like Drapion is a pretty reliable check to physical/mixed sets if you go for that though.
Mega Gardevoir always works once, but after that it's 2HKO'd by either of Hoopa's STABs. Possibly you can work around this by running Wish and some defensive EVs, as Hyper Voice OHKOs even with no EVs. Something like this.
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 32 SpD / 196 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- whatever
252 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 32+ SpD Mega Gardevoir: 142-169 (41.8 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 32 Def Mega Gardevoir: 140-166 (41.2 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Yay! Technically a counter!*
*It's really not.
What a pain in the ass to get 4 unreliable checks to a single set (and 2 of them suck). Maybe we should just say fuck it and 2HKO it with Sash dugtrio.
Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
There's Mandibuzz, who can still get KO'd by +2 Focus Blast after rocks. And Foul Play doesn't OHKO back vs a special set (still does a lot, 63-75%). Or if Hoopa is really paranoid, it can just fry Mandibuzz with Thunderbolt but it doesn't seem Thunderbolt has much other use (all I can think of is to avoid the 50/50 with Gyarados mega turn)
Klefki can come in and limit the damage with a status move, but if Focus Blast connects after that it's gone.
Drapion looks like it has the right typing but Focus Blast does too much...Hoopa can OHKO even an Assault Vest set at +2 with Focus Blast, and while Drapion can speed creep it, it can't OHKO first. Not worth it considering how shaky it is combined with being fucking Drapion. It looks like Drapion is a pretty reliable check to physical/mixed sets if you go for that though.
Mega Gardevoir always works once, but after that it's 2HKO'd by either of Hoopa's STABs. Possibly you can work around this by running Wish and some defensive EVs, as Hyper Voice OHKOs even with no EVs. Something like this.
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 32 SpD / 196 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- whatever
252 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 32+ SpD Mega Gardevoir: 142-169 (41.8 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 32 Def Mega Gardevoir: 140-166 (41.2 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Yay! Technically a counter!*
*It's really not.
What a pain in the ass to get 4 unreliable checks to a single set (and 2 of them suck). Maybe we should just say fuck it and 2HKO it with Sash dugtrio.
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NP sets easily walled by unaware clefable which is quite viable.
Gunk shot sets are a pain, but that is what scouting is for.
Gunk shot sets are a pain, but that is what scouting is for.
Def. Mega Altaria counters this, as does unaware Clefable, and that Gardevoir set you mentioned could.
...Then they all get destroyed by Gunk Shot mixed sets, lol
Even just a modest set 1hkos all of these after rocks (it even has a chance without) at +2, except for Clefable who is cleanly 2hko'd by psyshock and only does like 60% max back thanks to its great special bulk.
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