Stalling In RU

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Spirit, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. Spirit

    Spirit forsaken
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
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    Approved by molk

    Introduction:

    Nidoqueen's resurgence to the UU tier is nothing but good news for stall teams. Now that the most potent stallbreaker has left the tier, there are now many more options to consider when building a stall team. That's not to say that stall teams are now perfect, nor will they be able to counter every threat in the metagame. It is still necessary to play around certain threats in order to maintain your core and win the game, nevertheless the options are as plentiful as ever now. In this thread you are free to post Stall Cores and Stall Breakers that you have found effective. Make sure to include some reasoning as to why they're good at what they do.


    Purpose:
    • To discover new stall cores and stall staples
    • Find ways to beat common offensive threats
    • Not to try and counter every threat
      but learn how to get around them through
      intelligent maneuvering
    • Build stall teams with a strong foundation
    • Discover which pokemon threaten stall and
      the most common stall breakers

      How to start:

      When building a team, you must always have a goal in mind. In this case, it is to outlive your opponents and gradually wear them down through entry hazard damage, weak attacks, and status inflictions. Stall matches are known to take an extensive period of time, as much as 40+ turns. The best way to get going is to build a stall core(2-3 pokemon) and use them to cover any gaping weaknesses in your team. The remaining Pokemon can either be an offensive core or an additional stall core. Keep in mind, that no stall team can defeat every threat, with every good stall team, there is one significant weakness that will likely bring the team down. In this thread, we will discover how to overcome these weakness and to strengthen your stall cores.

    Stall Cores:

    Example:

    ✰✰✰[​IMG]✰✰✰[​IMG]✰✰✰

    Tangrowth and Slowking, otherwise known as Tangking, were a well-known stall core. These two pokemon together could wall a vast majority of the tier. This is all thanks to their ability, Regenerator. With Regenerator, both of these pokemon can frequently switch out and regain health, allowing them to fend off some of the most powerful pokemon in RU such as Kabutops and Entei. Like every stall core, they are not without their faults. Galvantula and Escavalier can break through the two of them easily, by virtue of their STABs alone. Despite this flaw in their defenses, through intelligent playing and switching, both pokemon can find ways to get around the two aforementioned threats. Tangrowth can either paralyze or put Galvantula to sleep, or hit both Escavalier and Galvantula with Hidden Power Fire. Slowking has an incredibly vast movepool and can use Fire Blast to roast those two bug types or nail both of them with Thunder Wave on the switch.

    Other Cores
    Show Hide


    [​IMG]

    Alomomola @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Waterfall
    - Toxic

    [​IMG]

    Roselia @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Spikes / Toxic Spikes
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Rest / Aromatherapy / Toxic Spikes

    Alomomola and Roselia pair quite well on RU stall, in fact, the vast majority of my RU stall teams have utilized this core or something very similar to it (such as Poliwrath>Alomomola). The two Pokemon support each other exceptionally well in my opinion, and together cover much of the metagame in two teamslots. Like the Cryogonal mentioned in the post above, Roselia's great at switching into the special Grass- and Electric-type attacks that Alomomola despises, taking them on with ease, and using some of them as Spikes/Toxic Spikes fodder (special Sceptile and hp rock Lilligant can't touch Roselia at all for example). In return, Alomomola can take on many of the physical attackers that Roselia's not bulky enough to handle, such as Entei, Absol, Druddigon, and Emboar, switching into them with relative ease and stalling with a combination of Toxic, Wish, and Protect. Furthermore, Alomomola can pass her massive wishes to Roselia, healing 267 or Roselia's 304 maximum HP with just one wish, pretty much fully healing her teammate. Because of Alomomola's massive Wishes, Roselia's much less dependent on Rest to restore her hp, and can sacrifice Rest for a third support move such as Aromatherapy or Toxic Spikes, or even for Hidden Power Fire to get the jump on Escavalier who try to switch in on her. Lastly, Roselia's Poison-type lets her switch into various Toxics that might be aimed at Alomomola with near impunity, while also absorbing Toxic Spikes that might cripple Alomomola and the rest of Roselia's teammates if left unchecked simply by switching in. If needed, some more defense can be run on Roselia to allow her to take some physical attacks from Pokemon mola might struggle with. For example: 200 Defense Bold Roselia can take a +1 Crunch from SubDD Crawdaunt from full HP and can OHKO in return with Giga Drain. Roselia still has enough special defense to check most of the threats she's supposed to check even with the extra defense investment, so the drop in special bulk isnt a huge loss. While Alomomola+Roselia is definitely a solid defensive core, it still struggles with a few threats, most notably special attacking Fire-types such as Moltres and Magmortar. Regirock serves as a good third teammate to cover these, being one of the few counters to Moltres and taking attacks from Magmortar admirably, although it has to watch out for Focus Blast+some prior damage. Regirock also serves to cover some Sigilyph varients, which pose a threat to Alomomola+Roselia as well, and sets up Stealth Rock for the stall team.


    Stall Staples (offensive or defensive)
    Show Hide


    [​IMG]
    Cryogonal @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Haze
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover

    Rapid Spin is incredibly important on stall, probably more important than on any other playstyle in fact in my opinion, Stall teams generally dont hit nearly as hard as other playstyles and this makes it much easier for hazard setters to get multiple layers of hazards up against them, making it much easier for the user to break through the opposing team, making Rapid Spin pretty much a requirement on any stall based team, and Cryogonal's easily the best option for the job. Cryogonal matches up well against most of the spinblockers in the tier thanks to its good special bulk, Ice STAB, and reliable recovery, walling Rotom and Misdreavus with ease, while hitting the rarer Golurk and Drifblim with a super effective Ice Beam, Cryogonal even matches up decently against offensive Spiritomb, being able to take a CB pursuit for about 47% with the ev spread used above, making it harder for tomb to trap and eliminate Cryogonal early on. Aside from being a somewhat reliable Rapid Spinner, Cryogonal makes a cool special wall as well, being able to take a slew of Special Attacks from common Pokemon while recovering off the damage and either striking back with a decently powerful Ice Beam or using them as an opportunity to spin away hazards. Haze is very useful as well, allowing Cryogonal to wipe away stat boosts from things such as Quiver Dance Lilligant and Cosmic Power Sigilyph (which is actually pretty threatening to stall otherwise despite its somewhat bad rep of being critbait). before they get too dangerous, giving it significant utility outside of the Rapid Spinning role. Cryogonal isnt without its flaws, though, Ice-typing is pretty undesirable on a defensive Pokemon, only resisting itself (although a bulky Blizzard resist IS cool). while giving Cryo weaknesses to multiple common offensive attacks such as Fire Blast, Stone Edge, and Focus Blast, not to mention that although Cryogonal's special bulk is great, its physical bulk leaves much to be desired, making it vulnerable to almost every physical attacker in the metagame. All in all though, Cryogonal is one of the best Rapid Spinners in the tier and arguably the best option that stall has for getting rid of entry hazards, and while its flaws get in the way sometimes, it still pulls its weight the majority of the time.

    [​IMG]
    Poliwrath @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    - Circle Throw
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Scald / Toxic

    Poliwrath has a very useful set of resistances that stall teams need, and it also has the really cool move in Circle Throw. Poliwrath, while not much on the offensive front, can take hits from Pokémon such as Escavalier, Entei, Kabutops, and Aggron and retailiate. Unlike Slowking, Poliwrath has a very nice Fighting-type, so it actually resists their coverage moves or alternative STABs, and can therefore switch into them and then threaten them. It can hope to burn with Scald (or just hit them hard with Scald if they are weak to it) or phaze them out, ridding them of their boosts if they have them. This is all thanks to its unique set of resistances, which means that it sometimes can resist all but the weakest moves, or just straight up everything, on a certain Pokémon's moveset. Circle Throw can add up damage over time, especially when combined with entry hazards such as Spikes. While RestTalk is generally considered to be bad because it loses momentum, the fact that it is recovery for Poliwrath is a good thing, especially considering how Poliwrath can get rid of those sleep turns by staying in on a Pokemon that doesn't threaten it, which is a long list indeed.

    [​IMG]

    Spiritomb @ Choice Band
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Sucker Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Trick

    Stall teams can't check every threat sheerly on the merit of defensive buffering. It should be made perfectly evident right now, since the number of powerful and diverse threats in the RU metagame prevent this from being wholly realistic. That being said, Spiritomb offers a decent "catch-all" for a plethora of weakened or generally frail sweepers, keeping them in check with a powerful Sucker Punch. Its typing and moderate bulk also makes it one of the best responses to Gallade in the tier (who I do agree is far and away one the biggest threats to stall as a whole, though Sub+Bulk Up sets are also really tough for Stall to play around), being immune to its dual STAB and threatening to deal upwards of 85% with Shadow Sneak / Pursuit (upon switching out). These attributes similarly allow it to threaten and either KO or significantly wear down Pokemon such as SubCM Uxie, Clefable, or Sigilyph, all of whom are otherwise huge headaches to any given stall team to face. What's more, the Pokemon it cannot check as comfortably (most Dark- and Steel-types for those unaware .-.) are all for the most part handled quite aptly by other stall "staples" such as Poliwrath and Steelix (which btw should both be getting big mentions :>). It even offers the utility of Trick, allowing it to cripple a key defensive 'mon in a match-up against opposing stall teams, ensuring it isn't dead weight. Lastly (and admittedly least), Spiritomb's Ghost typing allows it to soft-spinblock entry hazards, which while definitely not being as helpful as it might have been were the better spinners of the tier not designed to beat it does at the very least pressure the opposing spinner to not click Rapid Spin upon switching in safely, meaning that the stall team has a shot at preserving their hazards by forcing the spinner out with another 'mon as the spinner anticipates Spiritomb (ex: Poliwrath switching into Kabutops's SD / Cryogonal's IBeam expecting 'Tomb to come in and scaring them out with a Circle Throw)


    Stall Breakers:

    Example:

    ✰✰✰[​IMG]✰✰✰[​IMG]✰✰✰

    Choice Specs Moltres and Swords Dance Gallade are easily the most threatening Pokemon to stall teams. With their high base power moves, great coverage, and menacing offensive stats, it's no wonder why the would be such threats. For Example,

    252 SpA Choice Specs Moltres Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 116+ SpD Slowking: 216-255 (54.96 - 64.88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 258-304 (63.86 - 75.24%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    One of the best special walls in the tier and one of the best physical wall are both cleanly 2HKO'd. Despite their raw power, both Moltres and Gallade have crippling weaknesses. Moltres has that nasty SR weakness along with two inaccurate STABs in Hurricane and Fire Blast, which makes sweeping difficult. Gallade on the other hand is quite frail, and the Close Combat defense drops only continue to augment this problem. This makes Gallade a pokemon that is easy to KO after a defense drop, not to mention that any status, be it poison, burn, or paralysis will severely cripple Gallade.

    Other Stall Breakers
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]

    Absol @ Life Orb
    Trait: Super Luck
    EVs: 4 SAtk / 252 Spd / 252 Atk
    Naughty Nature
    - Night Slash
    - Sucker Punch
    - Superpower
    - Fire Blast

    Meet the monster. This is why most full stall teams have to run Poliwrath or Alomomola over Slowking as their bulky water of choice, otherwise, Absol will gut the whole core (hello TangKing). Fire Blast is the crux of this set, with it both Tangrowth and Steelix (the 2 other premier physical walls of stall) are both seriously mangled taking enough damage to be 2HKO'd by the next physical attack they encounter from Absol. Plus, carrying a fast mon or scarfer such as Cinccino to clean late game won't even work to stop it as it boasts the strongest priority in the game to stop such shenanigans. Don't bother with trying to run Thunderbolt or Psycho Cut in the last slot as neither will dent the the 2 bulky waters enough to justify losing to Tangrowth and Steelix.

    [​IMG]

    Magmortar @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 24 HP / 252 SAtk / 232 SpD
    Modest / Mild Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Focus Blast
    - Earthquake / Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice

    Just like former RU stallbreaker Nidoqueen, Magmortar is capable of tearing through the majority of stall teams with ease using its high powered STAB moves and excellent type coverage. First off, Magmortar's Fire Blast is incredibly powerful, able to easily 2HKO any Pokemon that doesnt resist it at worst, and even some that do resist the move such as Qwilfish suffer the same fate. (fun fact: Modest Magmortar's Fire Blast is even stronger than Moltres's Fire Blast due to the nature difference). The fun doesnt stop there, though. Unlike most other Fire-types, Magmortar has a reliable way to get rid of all the bulky Water-types that can take its Fire Blast in the form of Thunderbolt, allowing Magmortar to easily blow past Poliwrath and Alomomola, and it even has the power to 2HKO Slowking after Stealth Rock, a feat only Moltres can rival when it comes to Fire-types, and it has to rely on the inaccurate Hurricane to do it, while Thunderbolt has no such accuracy issues. Focus Blast does serious damage to bulky Normal-types such as Clefable, Lickilicky, and Munchlax, while also 2HKOing Rhydon, who can take Fire Blast and Thunderbolt with ease. The last moveslot depends on what you think you need to hit at this point. Hidden Power Grass gets the OHKO on Quagsire and Seismitoad (although Life Orb Fire Blast gets a guarenteed 2HKO on Quaggy after Stealth Rock) while also giving Magmortar a way to hit Rhydon without having to rely on a 70% accurate move. Earthquake and Hidden Power Ice both allow Magmortar to get around threats that can still beat it even with its mighty coverage, for example: Earthquake gets an easy 2HKO on Lanturn after Stealth Rock damage while taking out the rare Flareon and Lampent as well, while Hidden Power Ice allows Magmortar to get rid of troublesome Dragons such as Druddigon and Altaria more easily, if Magmortar is using Earthquake, then a Mild Nature should be used instead of a Modest one to maximize damage output. Lastly, while a Life Orb maximizes Magmortar's damage output and makes it even harder to wall, Expert belt is also a perfectly viable option, as Magmortar's great coverage means it'll usually be getting the boost anyway, and it spares Magmortar from being worn down by Life Orb recoil over the course of the match, meaning the opponent will have a much harder time eliminating it just by playing around it.

    [​IMG]

    Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Toxic Boost
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Facade
    - Close Combat
    - Quick Attack / Night Slash

    Oh jeez. After a Swords Dance boost, your stall team is screwed unless you can predict correctly. It even OHKOs Tangrowth for goodness sake, to give you perspective of how strong this this is! While offensive teams often don't give Zangoose a single turn because it is so frail, a Stall team's reliance on Toxic (which of course activates its ability) or Pokémon that are rather weak can let Zangoose actually get the Swords Dance boost. You may not actually need Swords Dance to kill stuff easily, but I am just emphasizing that Zangoose can get up the boost, even the bulkiest Pokémon fail at walling it, and then Protect stalling or really good switching takes it down (don't be too lenient of switching because Zangoose may get the boost on that turn). It goes down rather quickly, but the damage it can cause leaves you open to being cleaned up by a quick Choice Banded Pokemon or something along those lines.
  2. col49

    col49 you know I used to try
    is a Contributor to Smogon
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    Oh, this is really cool, nice to see something this going up n_n Anywho, I'll definitely comment more later, but there is a Pokemon I really want to "hype up" for use on stall-oriented teams:

    [​IMG]
    Spiritomb @ Choice Band
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Sucker Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Trick


    Basically all of my stall / semi-stall teams (or at least the more successful iterations of them '~') have packed CBtomb thanks to the massive loads of utility it offers most stall teams. While obviously not offering up much in terms of defensive support, Spiritomb is a really useful addition to such teams for a number of reasons.

    Stall teams can't check every threat sheerly on the merit of defensive buffering. It should be made perfectly evident right now, since the number of powerful and diverse threats in the RU metagame prevent this from being wholly realistic. That being said, Spiritomb offers a decent "catch-all" for a plethora of weakened or generally frail sweepers, keeping them in check with a powerful Sucker Punch. Its typing and moderate bulk also makes it one of the best responses to Gallade in the tier (who I do agree is far and away one the biggest threats to stall as a whole, though Sub+Bulk Up sets are also really tough for Stall to play around), being immune to its dual STAB and threatening to deal upwards of 85% with Shadow Sneak / Pursuit (upon switching out). These attributes similarly allow it to threaten and either KO or significantly wear down Pokemon such as SubCM Uxie, Clefable, or Sigilyph, all of whom are otherwise huge headaches to any given stall team to face. What's more, the Pokemon it cannot check as comfortably (most Dark- and Steel-types for those unaware .-.) are all for the most part handled quite aptly by other stall "staples" such as Poliwrath and Steelix (which btw should both be getting big mentions :>). It even offers the utility of Trick, allowing it to cripple a key defensive 'mon in a match-up against opposing stall teams, ensuring it isn't dead weight. Lastly (and admittedly least), Spiritomb's Ghost typing allows it to soft-spinblock entry hazards, which while definitely not being as helpful as it might have been were the better spinners of the tier not designed to beat it does at the very least pressure the opposing spinner to not click Rapid Spin upon switching in safely, meaning that the stall team has a shot at preserving their hazards by forcing the spinner out with another 'mon as the spinner anticipates Spiritomb (ex: Poliwrath switching into Kabutops's SD / Cryogonal's IBeam expecting 'Tomb to come in and scaring them out with a Circle Throw). Not sure what the qualifications are for a "stall staple", but I'd definitely consider mentioning 'Tomb somewhere ^_^
  3. Swamp-Rocket

    Swamp-Rocket screw economics!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Oh wow, stall... when was the last time I ran into one of these teams commonly?

    Boons to Stall Teams

    [​IMG]
    Poliwrath @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    - Circle Throw
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Scald / Toxic

    Poliwrath has a very useful set of resistances that stall teams need, and it also has the really cool move in Circle Throw. Poliwrath, while not much on the offensive front, can take hits from Pokémon such as Escavalier, Entei, Kabutops, and Aggron and retailiate. Unlike Slowking, Poliwrath has a very nice Fighting-type, so it actually resists their coverage moves or alternative STABs, and can therefore switch into them and then threaten them. It can hope to burn with Scald (or just hit them hard with Scald if they are weak to it) or phaze them out, ridding them of their boosts if they have them. This is all thanks to its unique set of resistances, which means that it sometimes can resist all but the weakest moves, or just straight up everything, on a certain Pokémon's moveset. Circle Throw can add up damage over time, especially when combined with entry hazards such as Spikes. While RestTalk is generally considered to be bad because it loses momentum, the fact that it is recovery for Poliwrath is a good thing, especially considering how Poliwrath can get rid of those sleep turns by staying in on a Pokemon that doesn't threaten it, which is a long list indeed.

    Dangeous Stallbreakers

    [​IMG]
    Escavalier @ Choice Band
    Trait: Swarm
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Megahorn
    - Pursuit
    - Iron Head
    - Sleep Talk

    Bug-types match up well against stall in RU, and Escavalier makes no exception of this. Its Megahorn is not resisted by very much – what does resist it is sometimes 2HKOed by it, and common stallers such as Tangrowth, Slowking, and even neutral targets such as Amoonguss find themselves incapable of switching in, unless they want to get completely destroyed by he sheer power of a Choice Banded Megahorn. Its Steel-typing also messes up stall teams, and it overall is hard to take down with status – Paralysis is basically irrelavent because it is so slow, and getting paralyzed = it cannot be burned, it has Sleep Talk, and it is immune to Toxic damage and therefore cannot be worn down. It also means that Pokémon that depend on one move are going to do pathetic amounts of damage to it, and lose one on one with ease. Especially when you consider its only weakness is Fire, which is a typing that is terrible defensively for various and obvious reasons, stall teams often need to take special precautions to take care of this thing, such as by running Fire Blast on their Slowking just to take it down and remain vulnerable to a lot of other threats.

    Here is a rarer, yet possibly more dangerous stallbreaker.

    [​IMG]
    Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Toxic Boost
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Facade
    - Close Combat
    - Quick Attack / Night Slash

    Oh jeez. After a Swords Dance boost, your stall team is screwed unless you can predict correctly. It even OHKOs Tangrowth for goodness sake, to give you perspective of how strong this this is! While offensive teams often don't give Zangoose a single turn because it is so frail, a Stall team's reliance on Toxic (which of course activates its ability) or Pokémon that are rather weak can let Zangoose actually get the Swords Dance boost. You may not actually need Swords Dance to kill stuff easily, but I am just emphasizing that Zangoose can get up the boost, even the bulkiest Pokémon fail at walling it, and then Protect stalling or really good switching takes it down (don't be too lenient of switching because Zangoose may get the boost on that turn). It goes down rather quickly, but the damage it can cause leaves you open to being cleaned up by a quick Choice Banded Pokemon or something along those lines.

    EDIT (April 7th): These two do pretty well against cl's defensive core down there. +2 Zangoose most likely OHKOs both, and Escavalier probably OHKOs Gallade with Megahorn while (most likely) 2HKOing Regirock with Iron Head. To be fair the core is meant to defeat special attackers and both are phys. attackers, but regardless.
  4. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
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    [​IMG]
    Absol @ Life Orb
    Trait: Super Luck
    EVs: 4 SAtk / 252 Spd / 252 Atk
    Naughty Nature
    - Night Slash
    - Sucker Punch
    - Superpower
    - Fire Blast

    Meet the monster. This is why most full stall teams have to run Poliwrath or Alomomola over Slowking as their bulky water of choice, other wise Absol will gut the whole core (hello TangKing). Fire Blast is the crux of this set as with it both Tangrowth and Steelix (the 2 other premier physical walls of stall) are both seriously mangled taking enough damage to be 2HKO'd by the next physical attack they encounter from Absol. Plus carrying a fast mon or scarfer such as Cincinno to clean late game won't even work to stop it as it boasts the strongest priority in the game to stop such shenanigans. Don't bother with trying to run Thunder Bolt or Psycho Cut in the last slot as neither will dent the the 2 bulky waters enough to justify losing to Tangrowth and Steelix.
  5. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
    is a Pre-Contributor
    Mentor

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    Messages:
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    Stall definitely got a lot better with nidoqueen leaving the tier, but I still don't think that stall teams are as good as an offensive team. I've faced a few stall teams, and won every time since it is very easy to get down entry hazards quickly(spikes helps especially against stall team IMO, since a lot of the best walls, such as steelix, qwilfish, poliwrath and slowking, take full damage from spikes)and then keep up offensive pressure easily with pokes such as LO sigilyph, moltres, magmortar, absol and most rotom forms. You can also wear down walls quickly by using VoltTurn-the rotom forms are especially good candidates since they lure out cryogonal, a stall teams main spinner, and wrack up hazard damage on it. With such a ridiculous number of high powered threats in the metagame, p much every stall team will have a weakness as well which you can easily exploit-it is pretty much impossible to cover specs moltres, cb entei, absol, magmortar, CB druddigon, cb aggron, specs glaceon, specs rotom-f, sceptile, SD gallade, jynx, zangoose etc. all at once. It's also quite easy to trap some stall pokemon with pursuit, such as cryogonal, weakened misdreavus and roselia which makes it even harder to win. Although stall can be used, and a well built stall team can be very difficult to beat, it is incredibly difficult to build a team to handle every single threat and imo is not as effective in higher level play as offensive teams due to how easy it is on offensive teams to keep offensive pressure up, get entry hazards up quickly, wrack up a lot of damage with a dedicated stall breaker(since there are loads of ridiculously powerful pokes in ru it is rare that one of these isn't on a team) and trap key members with Pursuit.

    Cool thread btw.
  6. Molk

    Molk idk
    is a Tutoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
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    Dangerous Stallbreakers

    [​IMG]
    Magmortar @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 24 HP / 252 SAtk / 232 Spe
    Modest / Mild Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Focus Blast
    - Earthquake / Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice

    Just like former RU stallbreaker Nidoqueen, Magmortar is capable of tearing through the majority of stall teams with ease using its high powered STAB moves and excellent type coverage. First off, Magmortar's Fire Blast is incredibly powerful, able to easily 2HKO any Pokemon that doesnt resist it at worst, and even some that do resist the move such as Qwilfish suffer the same fate. (fun fact: Modest Magmortar's Fire Blast is even stronger than Moltres's Fire Blast due to the nature difference). The fun doesnt stop there, though. Unlike most other Fire-types, Magmortar has a reliable way to get rid of all the bulky Water-types that can take its Fire Blast in the form of Thunderbolt, allowing Magmortar to easily blow past Poliwrath and Alomomola, and it even has the power to 2HKO Slowking after Stealth Rock, a feat only Moltres can rival when it comes to Fire-types, and it has to rely on the inaccurate Hurricane to do it, while Thunderbolt has no such accuracy issues. Focus Blast does serious damage to bulky Normal-types such as Clefable, Lickilicky, and Munchlax, while also 2HKOing Rhydon, who can take Fire Blast and Thunderbolt with ease. The last moveslot depends on what you think you need to hit at this point. Hidden Power Grass gets the OHKO on Quagsire and Seismitoad (although Life Orb Fire Blast gets a guarenteed 2HKO on Quaggy after Stealth Rock) while also giving Magmortar a way to hit Rhydon without having to rely on a 70% accurate move. Earthquake and Hidden Power Ice both allow Magmortar to get around threats that can still beat it even with its mighty coverage, for example: Earthquake gets an easy 2HKO on Lanturn after Stealth Rock damage while taking out the rare Flareon and Lampent as well, while Hidden Power Ice allows Magmortar to get rid of troublesome Dragons such as Druddigon and Altaria more easily, if Magmortar is using Earthquake, then a Mild Nature should be used instead of a Modest one to maximize damage output. Lastly, while a Life Orb maximizes Magmortar's damage output and makes it even harder to wall, Expert belt is also a perfectly viable option, as Magmortar's great coverage means it'll usually be getting the boost anyway, and it spares Magmortar from being worn down by Life Orb recoil over the course of the match, meaning the opponent will have a much harder time eliminating it just by playing around it.

    Also, dont use max hp please, i know its the suggested spread on PS but Magmortar needs at least enough speed to outrun neutral natured base 80s ._..
  7. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,438
    Quagsire @ Leftovers
    Trait: Unaware
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Lax Nature
    - Counter
    - Scald
    - Recover
    - Earthquake


    Quagsire has such good defensive typing for RU it's not funny, and the defense and HP stats it possesses are just amazing. It takes out a LOT of physical threats in RU, minus, like, gallade. Couple it with a special wall and you have a great core right there. The amount of physical attackers in RU really help quagsire, since if you manage to dispatch the 2 special attackers on your opponent's team (and gallade if he has it) then quagsire can just stand there with his derpy face walling the opponents.
  8. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy one for the future
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Eh, I have to say I disagree with a lot of points made in this thread. While we all knew and loved BW1 stall, TanKing is really outdated and most teams beat it without even trying now. As such, a lot of the things that threatened it aren't really threatening to BW2 stall because that was literally 9 months ago. I think that Expert Belt Magmortar is really overrated as a stall killer, as well as mixed Absol, because like I said, TanKing is nowhere near as good or common as it was in BW1. A really good core now is specially defensive Gallade and Regirock. Between them, they can handle just about every special attacker in the metagame, although there are still some that give it trouble like Lilligant and some hail mons. Gallade by itself beats an incredible amount of special attackers, including Magmortar, and Regirock is good for beating some notable mons that give Gallade trouble, like Moltres, Sigilyph, and SubCM Uxie. They also have some other cool traits; Regirock can set up Stealth Rock and also checks Entei, and Gallade can burn physical attackers with Will-O-Wisp, has a cool Fighting-resist (not that you should use Gallade to check physical Fighting-types), and of course can pass Wishes to Regirock, compensating for the latter's lack of recovery.

    Core (open)
    Gallade (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Steadfast
    EVs: 248 HP / 244 SDef / 16 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Drain Punch
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Regirock @ Leftovers
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rock Slide
    - Earthquake
    - Drain Punch


    I'll probably post some more stuff in this thread later.
  9. august

    august when the storm screams angela, angela
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnuswon the 5th Official Smogon Tournamentis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

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    i disagree with calling cb spiritomb a "staple" on stall teams, simply because cb spiritomb only really beats one spinblocker (cryo) and it doesnt even do that with toxic spikes down... it pretty much flat out loses to sandslash (both offensive and defensive) and becomes set up bait for kabutops if it picks the wrong move... foul play spiritomb is definitely a much better spin blocker. it destroys cryogonal w/ pressure + will o wisp + repeated foul plays as well as holding its own against kabutops / sandslash with proper prediction and still beats gallade and most other fighters. rest talk is what i use but i guess some people like shadow sneak + pain split

    tangking is almost nonexistent in stall these days too.. simply because metagame shifts have made it really easy to break and imo tangrowth/slowking as individual pokemon have definitely lost some viability and i can generally find things that outclass them when team building (especially in stall)

    alomomola is definitely one of the best pokemon on stall these days.. cb druddigon doesnt 2hko so thats a testament to its bulk. wish + protect is pretty obvious but the best thing about alo is definitely regen. regen allows alo to shrug off physical hits and effectively wish pass without being too weak to counter the threats that it needs to. toxic + protect is also really annoying for offensive teams (or protect + toxic spikes). speaking of toxic spikes, you guys are definitely underrating them.. toxic spikes are fucking great. the best toxic spike layer hands down is roselia. qwilfish + amoongus are the most common grounded poisons w/ no queen and rose has a tremendous advantage vs both of them as well as being able to lay normal spikes to wear them down (ok i admit wearing down amoongus is hard regardless). toxic spikes help to check stuff like drud and magmortar that can be potentially dangerous as well as allowing cryo to beat almost any spiritomb barring sdef restalk.

    theres definitely some annoying combos to face with stall.. wish fable + qwilfish + spiritomb + cryogonal gives me nightmares when i stall. im probably rmting my stall team soon so ill give some more indepth explanations when i get around to that..

    also stall has never been bad by a longshot, even with nidoqueen ;)

    ill edit this more when i get back from class

    ok now heres some stall BREAKERS that i have always found to be really annoying

    1) hail with lo subsplit rotom-f. cryogonal stands no chance basically.... rotom-f hits like a truck and cryo cant break subs outside of using hp fire which is almost a waste of a moveslot imo.. sdef wish fable can kinda stall it out but is very prone to hax eventually. sdef lickilicky straight up loses thanks to no hail immunity, a huge hp stat for rotom-f to pain split against and because it takes a solid shitload from blizzard. steelix gets smacked by blizzard, as do both gallade / gardevoir and regirock. i havent really found a way to beat this with full stall, but i reckon overcoat sdef sleep talk escavalier does a pretty good job. sleep talk magnezone does a damn good job too but unfortunately doesn't really have a place in full stall if you ask me... i guess the easiest fix would be hp fire cryo but haze is too good / subsplit rotom-f is too uncommon for me to warrant such a big change.

    2) specs moltres / specs typhlosion / ebelt magmortar. ok everyone knows moltres is a big pain in the ass xD specs hurricane decimates pretty much everything and forces you to keep stealth rock down etc. since i dont run slowking, i have a particularly hard time with specs typhlosion + ebelt magmortar and basically have to rely on the other team not having a poison so i can wear them down with lots of protect + toxic spikes. specially defensive protect druddigon is actually pretty good on stall if you can fit it to beat these monsters.. i used to use a LUNATONE with protect + moonlight but that means your main special fire check is really weak to pursuit + it kinda lost its niche after nidoqueens ban.

    3) a lot of random combinations of pokemon can give stall trouble if played well. some examples:

    kabutops + specs moltres + roselia. generally used with a spinblocker, standard fwg core with lo sd tops that can spin on pretty much any ghost... specs moltres + spikes is ridiculous and quickly drains stall of HP to the point where even if they do manage to kill moltres, most of their team is dead or near dead.

    i already mentioned that qwilfish + cryogonal + sdef spiritomb is pretty annoying for stall. relies heavily on spiritomb though to prevent spin so if it gets worn down from spikes + sr this core gets pretty easy to beat. still annoying.

    spikes + durant is annoying to beat because wrath is arguably the most common durant check on stall and the 2 best defensive spikers in ru (qwil and roselia) set up on it so easily. durant gets a lot of chances to set up hone claws boosts as well. lefties hone claws durant also easily beats alomomola since it has fair defense and alo is piss weak. in similar vein, spikes + cb escavalier can become very deadly if steelix gets worn down early.

    spikes + whirlwind cm sigilyph is deadly against stall as well. spiritomb is the best all around counter to cm sigilyph, and with whirlwind + spikes sigilyph can beat it pretty easily (tomb can no longer beat sigilyph once it is forced to rest). sigi can still beat haze cryo one on one with enough boosts as well as being able to whirlwind steelix out before it can phaze. thankfully no one ever uses this because its really annoying

    hp fire quiver dance lilligant is still just as good at stall breaking as it was during the era of foundations. this basically forces you to run something like drapion / licky / sdef druddigon, as otherwise its a pretty painful loss flat out
  10. NfskMjmMal

    NfskMjmMal

    Joined:
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    Alomomola pretty much is stall. Anything that does less than 62.5% per hit (which is a lot of physical attackers) can be toxic and/or Life Orb and/or PP stalled through Wish and Protect. It can also pass 277 HP Wishes to others with less reliable recovery.

    252+ Atk Life Orb Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 226-266 (42.32 - 49.81%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    252+ Atk Absol Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 105-124 (19.66 - 23.22%) -- possible 6HKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Druddigon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 255-300 (47.75 - 56.17%) -- 30.47% chance to 2HKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 276-325 (51.68 - 60.86%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO
  11. Spirit

    Spirit forsaken
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Tanking was only used as an example because of how well-known they are. The description is in past tense, so it implies how they were effective.

    I agree with Rest-talk spiritomb. I use that as well with great succession. I use a specially defensive set to defeat even offensive versions of cryogonal. 248/200+ allows spiritomb to survive 3 consecutive Ice Beams from standard offensive cyro after Stealth Rock. The rest go into defense to tank hits from Sandslash and Kabutops.
  12. Molk

    Molk idk
    is a Tutoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
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    Speaking of Cryogonal!

    Stall Staples
    [​IMG]
    Cryogonal @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Haze
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover

    Rapid Spin is incredibly important on stall, probably more important than on any other playstyle in fact in my opinion, Stall teams generally dont hit nearly as hard as other playstyles and this makes it much easier for hazard setters to get multiple layers of hazards up against them, making it much easier for the user to break through the opposing team, making Rapid Spin pretty much a requirement on any stall based team, and Cryogonal's easily the best option for the job. Cryogonal matches up well against most of the spinblockers in the tier thanks to its good special bulk, Ice STAB, and reliable recovery, walling Rotom and Misdreavus with ease, while hitting the rarer Golurk and Drifblim with a super effective Ice Beam, Cryogonal even matches up decently against offensive Spiritomb, being able to take a CB pursuit for about 47% with the ev spread used above, making it harder for tomb to trap and eliminate Cryogonal early on. Aside from being a somewhat reliable Rapid Spinner, Cryogonal makes a cool special wall as well, being able to take a slew of Special Attacks from common Pokemon while recovering off the damage and either striking back with a decently powerful Ice Beam or using them as an opportunity to spin away hazards. Haze is very useful as well, allowing Cryogonal to wipe away stat boosts from things such as Quiver Dance Lilligant and Cosmic Power Sigilyph (which is actually pretty threatening to stall otherwise despite its somewhat bad rep of being critbait). before they get too dangerous, giving it significant utility outside of the Rapid Spinning role. Cryogonal isnt without its flaws, though, Ice-typing is pretty undesirable on a defensive Pokemon, only resisting itself (although a bulky Blizzard resist IS cool). while giving Cryo weaknesses to multiple common offensive attacks such as Fire Blast, Stone Edge, and Focus Blast, not to mention that although Cryogonal's special bulk is great, its physical bulk leaves much to be desired, making it vulnerable to almost every physical attacker in the metagame. All in all though, Cryogonal is one of the best Rapid Spinners in the tier and arguably the best option that stall has for getting rid of entry hazards, and while its flaws get in the way sometimes, it still pulls its weight the majority of the time.

    Might add some more Pokemon here later!
  13. VN.

    VN. the birds pt. 1
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Interestingly enough Swamp-Rocket, CB Escavalier is a fantastic Pokemon to use on stall teams as well, in addition to having nice defenses and a desirable steel typing that allows it to take on stuff like SD Sceptile and some other strong physical as well as special pokemon [on mine and heists stall team from r15 we had missy so you could taunt sigilyph and then send in Escavalier to destroy it]. I think that CB Esca is such a fantastic Pokemon on stall because it exhibits a quality that few walls [in any tier] actually have, which is that it can severely rupture the opposing team after forcing something out; so many guys sent in their Magmortars into a CB Megahorn and just had it take 75% like nothing, often an effective plan is just to get Spikes up and get Escavalier in a situation where it forces something to switch out or die, most teams without like Poliwrath or Roost Moltres have to pick something to die every time it comes in because it's just that strong.

    ---
    Also why isn't Sigilyph on the stall breakers list? STAB/Heat Wave/CM/Roost with Life Orb absolutely wrecks any stall team without like Mandibuzz but even Mandibuzz is just delaying its own doom since it can't KO Mandbuzz and it can just boost last mon as Mandibuzz can do nothing because you literally can't touch it with residual xDD, I guess Spiritomb can kind of hit it hard but it can make use of Spikes and im sure Air Slash does a fair amount. The Cosmic Power Versions are easier to stop but are maybe even more effective when paired with a Pursuit user for Haze Cryo and ghosts [although Spiritomb is sort of annoying to remove there I guess], plus it can be PP Stalled.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  14. tparker

    tparker

    Joined:
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    Alomomola & Cryogonal

    I use a stall core of Alomomola and Cryogonal that actually have great synergy. The most threatening attacks directed towards Alomomola are special grass and electric type attacks, both of which Cryogonal has no trouble handling. Both can use toxic to wear down opponents and they support each other with wish and rapid spin respectively. Alomomola can easily pass large wishes with its huge physical bulk and regenerator ability. A third partner Uxie gives heal bell and stealth rock support and can take fighting attacks easily. Uxie can use thunder wave or yawn to prevent setup which can be a huge problem for this core especially if Cryogonal is using toxic over haze. Use of this core still allows for three addition spots and covers needs for spinning, hazards, healing, toxic status and a cleric. One threat to this core is Magmortar who can easily take on both Alomomola and Cryogonal.
  15. Molk

    Molk idk
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    Stall Cores:

    [​IMG]
    Alomomola @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Waterfall
    - Toxic

    [​IMG]
    Roselia @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Spikes / Toxic Spikes
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Rest / Aromatherapy / Toxic Spikes

    Alomomola and Roselia pair quite well on RU stall, in fact, the vast majority of my RU stall teams have utilized this core or something very similar to it (such as Poliwrath>Alomomola). The two Pokemon support each other exceptionally well in my opinion, and together cover much of the metagame in two teamslots. Like the Cryogonal mentioned in the post above, Roselia's great at switching into the special Grass- and Electric-type attacks that Alomomola despises, taking them on with ease, and using some of them as Spikes/Toxic Spikes fodder (special Sceptile and hp rock Lilligant can't touch Roselia at all for example). In return, Alomomola can take on many of the physical attackers that Roselia's not bulky enough to handle, such as Entei, Absol, Druddigon, and Emboar, switching into them with relative ease and stalling with a combination of Toxic, Wish, and Protect. Furthermore, Alomomola can pass her massive wishes to Roselia, healing 267 or Roselia's 304 maximum HP with just one wish, pretty much fully healing her teammate. Because of Alomomola's massive Wishes, Roselia's much less dependent on Rest to restore her hp, and can sacrifice Rest for a third support move such as Aromatherapy or Toxic Spikes, or even for Hidden Power Fire to get the jump on Escavalier who try to switch in on her. Lastly, Roselia's Poison-type lets her switch into various Toxics that might be aimed at Alomomola with near impunity, while also absorbing Toxic Spikes that might cripple Alomomola and the rest of Roselia's teammates if left unchecked simply by switching in. If needed, some more defense can be run on Roselia to allow her to take some physical attacks from Pokemon mola might struggle with. For example: 200 Defense Bold Roselia can take a +1 Crunch from SubDD Crawdaunt from full HP and can OHKO in return with Giga Drain. Roselia still has enough special defense to check most of the threats she's supposed to check even with the extra defense investment, so the drop in special bulk isnt a huge loss. While Alomomola+Roselia is definitely a solid defensive core, it still struggles with a few threats, most notably special attacking Fire-types such as Moltres and Magmortar. Regirock serves as a good third teammate to cover these, being one of the few counters to Moltres and taking attacks from Magmortar admirably, although it has to watch out for Focus Blast+some prior damage. Regirock also serves to cover some Sigilyph varients, which pose a threat to Alomomola+Roselia as well, and sets up Stealth Rock for the stall team.
  16. kakuna

    kakuna

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    I think the biggest threat to stall teams is spiritomb. Spiritomb is just so effective at what it does. It comes in and kills your psychics and ghost, and then it fades into a gallade who sets up a swords dance and sweeps you. Moltres is also very dangerous because only very specially defensive slowking and restalk lanturn can check it for a whole match (or bulky aerodactyl?). Those pokemon are both susceptible to spiritomb as well which is pretty annoying. This is why one of the more interesting stall breaking cores in my opinion is moltres and golurk, golruk can destroy whatever tries to wall moltres, and if any stupid grass types come in moltres can set up a sub or just nuke em with fire blast. Calm mind sigilyph might be the most underrated pokemon in all of RU, and he can break stall unless it carries thunder wave slowking/uxie. My set is calm mind/roost/psyshock/heat wave, magic guard and excellent coverage are the way you succeed in sweeping stall. This is why spiritomb is essential to stall because even cyro who is the typical spinblocker for stall can only handle stored power sets.

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