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Stalling in the Rain (Suggestions are Welcomed)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Dragoon124, Nov 22, 2012.

  1. Dragoon124

    Dragoon124

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    74
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Hello, I'm Dragoon124. I've been a relatively long time lurker at smogon and started actually playing on Showdown a few months ago. This is my first RMT. My team is a rain stall team who's purpose is gradually wearing down and fainting mu opponent's Pokemon one at a time. It has been my most successful team to date, peaking at a rating of 1610. Any suggestions or improvements are welcomed and will be considered. Now, without further ado, on to the team.

    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4Hp/252 SAtk/252Spd
    IVs: 31/30/31/30/31/31
    Timid Nature
    ~ Hydro Pump
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Hidden Power Grass
    ~ Perish Song​

    My rain summoner and only offensive Pokemon. Politoed acts as the only offensive component of this team, revenging fast set-up sweepers that are need to be revenged. However, it's main job is still just to summon the rain that supports my team in the very best way. Hydro Pump is to hit things hard, Ice Beam is for dragons, Hidden Power Grass is for waters(no matter how little damage it does), and Perish Song is for set-up sweepers and baton pass.

    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252Hp/236Def/20Spd
    Bold Nature
    ~ Rapid Spin
    ~ Toxic Spikes
    ~ Scald
    ~ Protect​

    Standard Tentacruel. Tentacruel is and amazing Pokemon who's main job is to rapid spin and set up toxic spikes. It also is an efficient and surprisingly fast special wall. Hazards can both make or break a stall team, and Tentacruel's here to help control that game. Rapid Spin and TS are standard, Protect is for extra recovery and scouting, and Scald is for not being taunt bait and burning.

    [​IMG]
    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 248Hp/252Def/8Spd
    Bold Nature
    ~ Rest
    ~ Roar
    ~ Toxic
    ~ Scald​
    Vaporeon is the definition of wall. No it's not Shuckle, Chansey, Skarmory, or anything else. To beat Vaporeon, you have to be able to OHKO it as Rest provides full recovery with no drawbacks in the rain. Vaporeon also provides the only phazing on this team and can stop a set-up sweep in a moment. It usually comes out aginst a Pokemon that is being particularly troublesome and is 2HKO everything on my team. Rest is for instant full-health recovery, Roar is for phazing, Toxic is for stalling Pokemon that can't be hit by TS, and Scald is for no Taunt-bait and burning.

    [​IMG]
    Chansey @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252Hp/252Def/4SDef
    Bold Nature
    ~ Wish
    ~ Protect
    ~ Heal Bell
    ~ Seismic Toss​

    Chansey's bulk is, incessant, to say the least. It's special bulk is ridiculous, and with eviolite, it's physical bulk is commendable. On any rain or sun team, Chansey is always better than Blissey, unless you really need to hit Ghost type Pokemon off that 75 base Special Attack. Chansey provides a fail-safe special wall, a wish passer with 353 Hp wishes, and a cleric. Although I could get rid of Heal Bell for Thunder Wave or Toxic, Heal Bell's utility is incalculable.Seismic Toss is for damge and not being complete taunt bait.

    [​IMG]
    Sableye @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252Hp/252Def/4SDef
    ~ Will-O-Wisp
    ~ Taunt
    ~ Recover
    ~ Foul Play​

    "Ring, ring (phone)"
    "Hello? Who is this?"
    "This is your team, telling you that you have no spinblocker and your entire team leans towards the special defensive side. Do something about it"

    It was with this call that I found Sableye. Like mentioned, I needed a spinblocker, and my entire team leaned towards the special defensive side. Gengar. Too frail. Jellicent. Have you seen all the water types on my team. Sableye. Perfect. Sableye has priority Will-O-Wisp to stop physical sweepers, Recover for recovery, priority Taunt, and Foul Play to punish other Pokemon and for not being complete Taunt bait. I used to use the standard Sableye set, however, Sableye wasn't taking special hits anyways and was to reliant on Will-O-Wisp hitting. So I decided to specialize it in the physical defense department.

    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252Hp/88Def/168SDef
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/0
    Bold Nature
    ~ Spikes
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Gyro Ball
    ~ Power Whip​

    Ferrothorn functions as my steel and my spikes and rocks hazard setter. With a ridiculous 10 resistances and 1 immunity, Ferrothorn is more than up to its job. I typically use spikes first if there are no rock weak Pokemon or spike immune Pokemon on the other team. Spikes and Stealth Rock are for hazards, Gyro Ball to majorly punish anything faster, and Power Whip for punishing water types.

    If there's one Pokemon that causes this team pain, its Breloom. Really, the only course of action for me is to either revenge with Politoed's ice beam, hope to hit with Sableye's Will-O-Wisp, or hope Tentacruel's Scald burns it. Yeah, I really don't have a proper answer to it.

    Here's the team in importable form
    Show Hide

    Politoed @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Perish Song
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Power Whip
    - Gyro Ball

    Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 20 Spd / 236 Def / 252 HP
    Bold Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Scald
    - Protect

    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Rest
    - Scald
    - Roar
    - Toxic

    Sableye @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover
    - Taunt
    - Foul Play

    Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Seismic Toss
    - Heal Bell



    As I've said before, any suggestions or improvements are welcomed an will be considered.
  2. Organization Member XIV

    Organization Member XIV

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    669
    As you said, you are Breloom weak, so I suggest Tornadus-T. Now, the problem for me is that I see that every Pokemon plays a vital role on your team, and I can't think of what to replace, so I leave it up to you to think of the least important member of your team and swap it with Tornadus-T. The set I recommend is:

    Tornadus-T@Life Orb
    Ability:Regenerator
    Nature: Naive (+Spe,-SpDef)
    Evs: 252 Spe, 220 SpAtk, 36 Atk
    Hurricane
    Superpower
    U-Turn
    Rain Dance/HP Ground


    This set is very effective at handling Breloom thanks to STAB Hurricane. Superpower also allows you to beat Tyranitar one on one. U-Turn is mainly for getting out of sticky situations and lets you abuse Regenerator. Finally, Rain Dance can be used in case you lose the weather war, while HP Ground allows you to hit Heatran. Hope I was able to help.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention that you won't like taking a Stone Edge, but you outspeed after you come in on a predicted SD/Bulk Up. However,

    +2 244+ Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 240-282 (80.26 - 94.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Just thought I should let you know. Can also use Taunt in the fourth slot to cripple setup sweepers/opposing stall. That's just 3 hits mind you, so be wary just in case.
  3. Dragoon124

    Dragoon124

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    74
    Thank you for the suggestion. I'm trying that Tornadus-t set over Vaporeon, with sleep talk in the 4th slot. The lack of roar and sheer bulk hurts, but it makes up for it with its offensive pressure.
  4. malomyotismon

    malomyotismon

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    344
    ow this team is actually identical to me old stall team back when sayble got it's ability and I am here to agree with xion in tornadous and i would replace vaporeon as it's the biggiest libaility of the team being a water type it shares weakness with other pokemon with no real purpose another pokemon can't do.
  5. Koji

    Koji

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    Try HP Electric on Politoed, as you've said the use of you HP Grass is for waters(no matter how little damage it does). Well, HP Electric can damage water types too, and especially to hit hard on Gyarados that can annoy your team as well.
  6. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    513
    hi there,

    pretty solid rain stall team you got here, it's pretty difficult to cover the metagame as there is so many different threats to prepare for, but you've done well so props for that. anyway, onto the team, the first thing i see is a pretty heavy breloom / keldeo weakness, especially the swords dance / calm mind sets respectively. you've got to rely on toxic spikes being up for both, and then you've got to stall for a couple turns to wear it down, which is far from reliable. to help with this, i'd recommend you try out a stallbreaker mew over your current vaporeon. i'm really too sure what vaporeon is doing for your team. it checks dragons pretty well, but it really only makes you weaker to nasty plot thundurus and other pokemon spamming electric type moves. mew can check dragons well, while helping you vs keldeo / breloom to an extent and making sure you are not setup fodder for ferrothorn being able to block hazards with taunt, which is important as you actually lack a reliable way of beating ferrothorn.

    another thing i noticed was your tentacruel's set, and i think you could get a lot more out of it. toxic spikes aren't as good as they used to be, and honestly aren't reliable to hit everything for consistent damage. i think if you try toxic + substitute > protect and toxic spikes you will get a lot more use out of it. one of the most common switch ins to tentacruel is jellicent, as your opponent will see your team and realise you're running a stall team and you're dependant on hazards. toxic allows you to break through jellicent, as well as other bulky waters that switch in on only one layer of toxic spikes. it also hits stuff like cm latias, who can actually beat chansey between calm mind and recover. substitute also has a lot of merit, allowing you to similarly block status, which is important against stuff like breloom as it switches in, and thunder wave from ferrothorn as you can break through it if you get a scald burn.

    but yeah, just a small suggestion, more preference than anything. something over protect for chansey might be more beneficial to your team, maybe something like counter, thunder wave or even softboiled over it. when running stall, i feel like chansey is already a huge target for stuff like terrakion and scizor, and this becomes even more notable when you're not running a status move. you could also run stealth rock over protect on chansey, easing up a moveslot for ferrothorn to run something else. it's all preference really, but whatever fits into your playstyle the easiest works.

    mew (open)

    [​IMG]

    Mew @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 Spe
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Softboiled
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Psychic
  7. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    961
    I'm not the best rater out there but Chansey is your only stop to Thundurus-T. Thundurus-T can really punch holes in your team and break your defenses. It can set up agility in the face of a couple of your pokes and can do massive damage. Also, i don't see how well you can rack up damage. I recommend Flinchtoxic Jirachi over something (Maybe Vaporeon). This really helps you rack up damage on the enemy and may still have Thunder to hit hard.

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpD/ 176 Spe
    Calm (+ Special Defense, - Attack)
    - Iron Head
    - Toxic
    - Substitute
    - Thunder
  8. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,495
    As you yourself point out, you've got problems with physical pokemon. And too many water-types. So, why not replace ferrothorn with skarmory? With chansey, vaporeon, and tentacruel, you've already got enough special walling going on, especially of water-type attacks, which means ferro is only really taking electric, dragon, and grass-type attacks on the special side. Skarmory can take the grass-types(especially in rain), while blissey can still deal well with specially based dragons. On the other end, you get a good physical wall that deals much better with physical dragons, and can also take on stuff like landorus-T, landorus-I, and in a pinch, possibly even things like terrakion. This also allows you to not be run over by physical threats should you lose the weather war, temporarily or permanently. You can replace heal bell on chansey with sr-with a natural cure AND a hydration poke, you have status covered rather nicely. Finally, skarmory gives you a way to deal with SD techniloom much more reliably, taking +2 mach punches and Ko'ing back with brave bird. This gives you problems with physical electric attacks, and somewhat with electric attacks in general, but luckily for you, there's a solution.

    At this point, i'd consider also replacing vaporeon with specs gastrodon/LO recover gastrodon. The reasoning here is that SubCM rachi uses a good portion of your team as setup bait, and your checks are:
    Vaporeon/politoed:Not spd, hit SE by thunder, can only force out, not kill
    Sableye:Screwed if sub, can only WoW.
    With my changes, you have a sturdy enough defensive core, but you honestly need a win condition. Any opposing stall team with a basic stall core and a starmie/tentacruel should spin on you with ease. (Yes, foul play, but starmie's got rain-boosted surfs/hydro pumps and you have no SpD. Not fun.) Specs gastrodon can give you a rather powerful attacker that can hopefully punch holes in an enemy stall core, especially with a boost, while still beating down subCM jirachi pretty hard, considering it's either hard-walled or using a resisted flash cannon on him, while he retaliates with brutalizing surfs/earth powers. It could also act as a nice thundurus-T check-your current team has scarftoed to revenge him, but your initial switch-in, chansey, can't do anything but seismic toss him. Gastrodon, at the very least, can force him out if you predict a t-bolt, and it might even be able to take a hit, although i'm unsure of this. This leaves you a little bit open to QDrona, however.

    The stallbreaker mew change is definitely a good one, but if you're doing that, it might be wise to swap out sableye, since he generally does what stallbreaker mew does. With vaporeon gone, jellicent gives you 3 waters, which is as many as you had in the first place. If you're still running heal bell chansey, an interesting option might be restalk dusclops(Emphasis on the INTERESTING.). It's got enough special bulk to spinblock in rain, and can still take a few physical hits and counter with WoW. Of course, it's setup bait for any special sweeper in existence, and LumNite, but i find that any stall team appreciates a nice mixed-wall that can slightly ease prediction. (You could also run ice beam>psychic, to have a nice secondary dragon check if ferro goes down, nice for dragmag teams, since they so often run magnezone.)
  9. Dragoon124

    Dragoon124

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    74
    Although Tornadus-t helps immensely with Breloom, it doesn't really have any defenses. Hp grass is for predicted Gastrodon switches(that are REALLY predictable). That stall breaker mew seems interesting(I've used it in uu), and when I think about it, Vaporeon didn't contribute much in terms of resistances and utility.These days each member of a stall team needs to fulfill multiple roles at once. I may give that Jirachi a try later on. I need wish, especially with Ferrothorn on my team. It also helps immensely when I need to switch and my counter to the Pokemon out is at low health, as sometimes you don't get a turn to recover. Skarmory would sadly compound my electric weakness, and I'm probably going to get rid of Vaporeon for one of these suggestions. With Vaporeon gone I become a little more status weak and everything on my team despises some status(besides Tentacruel, and it still doesn't like being paralyzed or burn taking it rain dish recovery). I realize stallbreaker mew is near identical to Sableye, but I believe the typing and natural stats make a huge difference and Sableye fulfills the role of a spinblocker quite well. I may try the subtoxic tentacruel, however I fell relatively good with my current moveset. I hopefully will get to Gastrodon. Now on another note how well would Amoonguss work where Vaporeon is.
  10. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,548
    I suggest Dragonite for the Vaporeon/Tornadus-T slot. It can run hurricane, dragon tail and roost for a combination of stall, phazing, and countering breloom. The last slot can go to anything like Protect, Substitute, Safeguard, Hone Claws, Rain Dance, Aqua Tail, whatever.

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