Stallteam (After ~1year PKMN break)

[matzemix]

Yo,
i had a break with competetive battling now for more than a year, what means im not up to date and need to learn the old things again :) And now there's also a new Gen, what makes me confuse because there are just too many new things, and that's the reason why i use almost only pokemon of the older Gens. I also never played OU Stall when i was active, so this is very new to me. Ah and...i only could take pokemon i that i know (means not the brand new Gen), so if there are better options for any role in my team that came with the new Gen, then please tell me :)
Let's just start!


How did i build the team?
Well first of all i wanted something that resistance alot types, is bulky and able to set up Stealth Rock and also able to Roar/WW. What came into my mind was this guy, which also becomes the lead:


After that i needed something with Spikes, bulkyness and good synergy with Swampert, if able also many resistances, only 1 option:

Ok now i theres a move i always wanted to use, TSpikes. And the only solid option here is Tentacruel, it also helps me to take water moves and is a nice pick against threats like Infernape. Then it's great typing, and the ability to eat up enemy TSPikes. Not to forget Rapidspin.

What else does a stallteam needs? A Ghost that can take hits and is not a squishy freekill. Since The Rotom-H form isnt Ghost anymore, i had to take Dusknoir.

Ok and now i needed some support, something that can take almost any Special Attacks no matter how strong they are. Again, one solid option^^:

Then i checked my typing weaknesses, and it came out that i need something against Rock, Water, Ice and Dragon. I scoutet around the new gen and there was some guy who resists 3 of these types, and this guy is a bulky one and also able to set up Spikes and use Leech Seed! The one and only Gen5 PKMN in my team:

So now the Movesets:

Swampert (F) @ Leftovers Torrent

EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SDef
(+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Roar


The Lead and one and only SR set upper. He does pretty fine and helps me with its typing in the late game very often. Roar to get more damage and also against BP-Teams, like Ninjask Leads. EQ/IB for the coverage Damage.



Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
Keen Eye

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
(+Def, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Roost


Standard physically Skarmory set. Spikes to get damage, WW to swamp pokemon that i dont want to and also to get more damage due spikes/sr. Roost for the Recovery and Brave Bird as powerful STAB.


Blissey (F) @ Leftovers

Natural Cure

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
(+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss



My Special Wall and support. Toxic to outstall bulky pokemon and Seismic Toss for the decent Damage output. Nothing special, thats how i always played her :)


Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
Steel Thorns

EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
(+SDef, -Spd)
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Spikes
- Leech Seed



Well my own moveset/EV spreads, but that should work i guess. This is my second Spikes layer. Leech Seed very useful to get more recovery and burn more HP of my opponent, and the 2 STAB moves i feel like they are needed and giving me a nice coverage.


Dusknoir (F) @ Leftovers

Pressure

EVs: 252 HP / 28 Atk / 228 Def
(+Def, -SAtk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch



Ghost, Rapidspin Blocker. WOW to cripple sweeper or just burn HP, Painsplit for the poor recovery and same as Swampert the Ground/Ice Coverage Moves. Works pretty well, but i wish there was still the old Rotom-H :(


Tentacruel (F) @ Leftovers
Rain Dish

EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
(+SDef, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Surf
- Rain Dance


My TSpikes Layer and Rapidspinner and switch in to Infernape and such threats, also switch in for water moves. I Didnt know what to take for the last move and then i saw a (new?) abily: Rain Dish. This is why im using Raindance there now, but i dont know if thats needed..^^







Gotta go sleep now thats why its a bit short...

Well i once had problems against Taunt, no idea how to handle it, so that Gliscor SDanced and killed my whole team due EQ.

Please give me Tipps and some feedback :)

 

[iJoonyah]

I think you should replace either skarmory or ferrothorn with whimsicott. You don't need a second spiker, and the priotity taunt has been proven to be invaluable in many situations. Plus, it has some decent bulk, letting it survive the not SE moves thrown at it with the right investments. It also has crazy stall potential, with priority leech seed, encore, stun spore, substitute, taunt, etc. It has an excellent movepool to company it's excellent ability.

Try this set:
Whimsicott (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Taunt
- Leech Seed
- Encore


A different nature and EV spread can be used if you want a SpD variant.


It's simple to use. You can switch in on a weak/ not very effective move or any stat-boosting move, then encore, sub/leech seed, until they switch out or faint.

 

[Battler3797]

i would suggest changing Dusknoir to this:
Jellicent
Leftovers
Calm
252 hp, 252 sdef, 4 def
Water Absorb
MOVESET:
Pain Split
Will-O-Wisp
Scald
Hex



This set does everything that the dusknoir set does but it also can sweep a little bit especially against things like psychics who are burned they are then facing a 300 BP special attack so it works really well. Scald for damage and the bonus chance of burning.




I also would suggest replacing Swampert with this

Tyranitar
Impish
Focus Sash
252 hp, 56 def, 200 sdef
Sand Stream
MOVESET:
Earthquake/Crunch
Stone Edge
Fire Blast
Stealth Rock



This is my original defensive tyranitar set. This guy is beast. with nearly 300 def AND sdef along with 400 hp he is a tough guy to KO. The only reason he isn't UBER is because of his weaknesses and no recovery source besides rest. However he can get a garuntee stealth rocks out and can sweep if need be. With no evs in attack he still has 304 attack. Fireblast is for steel types like ferrothorn and such.




I then finally suggest replacing Blissey with this
Heatran
Air Balloon
252 hp, 252 sdef, 4 satt
Calm
Flash Fire
MOVESET
Protect
Fire Blast
Earth Power
Hidden Power Ice




This guy can switch in on those pesky fire attacks that could hurt your ferrothorn and skarmory. He can take special attacks quite well and dish them out well too. HP ice is for those common Gliscor switches.




Most people love running the SKARMBLISS set however in recent times the new and IMO more viable set is the Ferrocent combo of ferrothorn and jellicent. Plus with this combo you get the F-W-G Core as well as two more type immunities. With this set here is how things go on type immunities:





Immunities:Ground, Ghost, Psychic, Water, Fire, poison, fighting, normal.
Resistances: Dark, Dragon, Electric, Rock, Steel, ice, grass

Those were the ones i could think of. You got 15/17 types either doing no damage or half damage.

 

[wacky tabaky]

Have thunder wvae instead of spikes in ferra as 2 spikers is weird and not worth it andbecause your team is very slow TW will help them sweep although its very stall orientated. bliss should be chansey holding an evolite as she has better defences then bliss with it. tentacruel should have damp rock to have rain in while it stalls for as long as possible and it can also help ferrra's 4x weakness to fire.

i would suggest changing Dusknoir to this:
Jellicent
Leftovers
Calm
252 hp, 252 sdef, 4 def
Water Absorb
MOVESET:
Pain Split
Will-O-Wisp
Scald
Hex

Scald for damage and the bonus chance of burning.

why have pain split when it gets recover which is far more reliable and better for stalling burn. scald should be ice beam because WoW does what scald is suppose to do and ice is a good offencive type.

 

[Battler3797]

well some people prefer pain split as it also deals damage to opponents while recovering. You can use recover though as for scald. I think you could run either because with scald you get STAB with ice beam you dont.

 

[BurtonEarny]

hate to be the one to tell you this, but stall is just an uphill battle pretty much not worth fighting this gen. Its just impossible for a team to cover everything. For instance, a last poke reuniculus/ sigilyph beats your team 100% of the time and they can do it even if you have all 6 of your pokemon at full hp. The gliscor you mentioned sets up on the majority of your team with impunity and blows massive holes into your team. Pure stall just really struggles to cover things like that.

Having ferrothorn without shed shell makes this team dangerously vulnerable to crocune or refresh/ sub versions of latias partnered with magnezone. If you play dream world, then chandelure and wobuffet are just more threats that can potentially leave you without your ferrothorn extremely early on.

As stated earlier, I would definately start putting some status on this team. Toxic spikes are nice and all, but burns and paralysis are much more important against heavy offensive teams that you just cannot wall forever.

 

[matzemix]

hate to be the one to tell you this, but stall is just an uphill battle pretty much not worth fighting this gen. Its just impossible for a team to cover everything. For instance, a last poke reuniculus/ sigilyph beats your team 100% of the time and they can do it even if you have all 6 of your pokemon at full hp. The gliscor you mentioned sets up on the majority of your team with impunity and blows massive holes into your team. Pure stall just really struggles to cover things like that.

Having ferrothorn without shed shell makes this team dangerously vulnerable to crocune or refresh/ sub versions of latias partnered with magnezone. If you play dream world, then chandelure and wobuffet are just more threats that can potentially leave you without your ferrothorn extremely early on.

As stated earlier, I would definately start putting some status on this team. Toxic spikes are nice and all, but burns and paralysis are much more important against heavy offensive teams that you just cannot wall forever.

oh damn, didnt know about this ability.... so youre right full stall is pretty useless in that case -.- well i will go for an offense team anyway soon, just need to get into the new GEN a bit to learn about all the new stuff there

so therefor, thx for the suggestions and answers:naughty:

 

[Temporal]

0-o. I find that totally not true. I don't play on the PO or smogon servers (wi-fi ftw) but a hail stall team that peaked at 10 by Delko and a sandstorm stall team that peaked at number 1 doesn't really prove stall isn't working this gen.

Yes stall is an uphill battle this gen and you need to take into account magic guard users like reuniclus/siglyph which can be taken care of.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102663

Yes stall had to adapt this gen to take into account those users, but I love stall to this day. It still works =D.

*Sorry for not rating but above suggestions seem to cover mostly everything.

 

[Battler3797]

hate to be the one to tell you this, but stall is just an uphill battle pretty much not worth fighting this gen. Its just impossible for a team to cover everything. For instance, a last poke reuniculus/ sigilyph beats your team 100% of the time and they can do it even if you have all 6 of your pokemon at full hp. The gliscor you mentioned sets up on the majority of your team with impunity and blows massive holes into your team. Pure stall just really struggles to cover things like that.

Having ferrothorn without shed shell makes this team dangerously vulnerable to crocune or refresh/ sub versions of latias partnered with magnezone. If you play dream world, then chandelure and wobuffet are just more threats that can potentially leave you without your ferrothorn extremely early on.

As stated earlier, I would definately start putting some status on this team. Toxic spikes are nice and all, but burns and paralysis are much more important against heavy offensive teams that you just cannot wall forever.

Stall isnt useless if you know how to play your advantage. You can easily get rocks up even if opponent has above said stuff. Plus here is a scenario with your so called unbeatable reunicles and sigilyph



we will say opponent is doing a dragon type move or something.


Turn 1
you switch into ferrothorn
Opponent uses whatever dragon type move and does what? like 20-25%

Ferrothorn recovers some hp from leftovers




Turn 2
Opponent switches in reunicles/Sigilyph
You switch in Tyranitar



Turn 3
Tyranitar uses crunch super effective does lots of damage to make getting rid of these things easy.
Reunicles calm minds, sigilyph uses cosmic power




A good staller can make use of what he has already to get an advantage. You got to know how to counter your weaknesses. Yes stall is an uphill battle. However with a good team and a good person who knows how to stall correctly it can still go and be a very successful team. However there is one thing i do agree with. It is hard enough to stall in generation 5 however not using and abusing status conditions just makes it harder. add some more status inducers.

 

[BurtonEarny]

Believe me, my experience is in stall much more than offense (though admittedly it was almost all uu), but stall has to be much less passive this gen to win. You can't just wall everything anymore. For instance, that tyranitar was what held the stall team together. It was the oh sh**t button for a random threat that may happen to set up that you weren't prepared for. Stall has to play way smarter than offense to win now. One mess up means a dead poke for offense, but one mess up probably means a swept stall team. Its not impossible at all, but I just find stall to have much more trouble without some sort of offensive glue there.

 

[666lumberjack]

@poster abov the above post, in the scenario you are assuming you are able to perfectly predict the switchin. What actually happens vs. Reuniclus is you come in on CM and then do a huge amount with Crunch before getting OHKO'd by Focus Blast. So, yes, Reuniclus is crippled, but you just lost your glue. Take note of that. If it's a spdef Ttar you take a huge chunk while not doing enough in return, then Clus switches and the next time if it can sneak a recover somewhere it wins.

 

[Battler3797]

@fastflygon you also are forgetting there would be sandstorm up there on top of tyranitar so that it gets i think a 30%boost to sdef and like i said you got to be able to outsmart your opponent(you just sort of repeated what i said) the only thing i did was list one scenario. You do need an offenseive thign to keep glue it glued together. the only thing is he has to now pick whether he wants a rapid spinner or the glue. In my own stall team it is very similar (its where i got my sets from) except instead of running a rapid spin tentacruel i used the sand abuser garchomp with swords dance. Another option is The life orb erxcadrill. I prefer using these two because you already have sand why not make even more use of it. So yes i completely agree you need a heavy sweeper in the stall team. It can not just be entirely stall. The way you have it no the only way you are going to win is if skarmory can whirlwind about 20 times. With i think its a -6 priority you arent going to be taking a lot of hits. The thing i notice about Generation 5 is that it is a lot more uhh......semi-stall then heavy stall. semi stall is when you weaken opponents and then bring in the allmighty revenge killer to sweep whatever is left. This means that you need time to set things up. which is why every pokemon on the team must have a role. The jellicent is for things that threaten heatran and can spread the will-o-wisps around. Not only does it cut opponents att in half it also damages them each turn. Which is why running protect on so many pokemon is a good thing. Using protect a lot on stall teams is VITAL. it does two things. One it stalls another turn to let opponent take residual damage and two it scouts. Scouting is not used by a lot of people. Scouting is Vital to every stall team. You have to know what move your opponent is going to use. That way you can switch to whatever pokemon suits your style. There are soooooo many aspects you have to master to be good at stalling. but again to repeat the main point HEAVY STALL ISNT EFFECTIENT IN THIS GENERATION YOU GOT TO RUN SEMI-STALL.

 

[666lumberjack]

The spdef boost is actually 1.5x, but when Reuni is at +1, Offensive Ttar is still being OHKO'd by Focus Miss. As I mentioned, Spdef Ttar can tank it, but you fail to ko it in that situation anyway. Specially defensive Tyranitar with Crunch and Pursuit is capable of beating it, but isn't exactly common. One day I'll make working heavy stall, if everything falls into place, there ARE defensive Reuniclus checks, like Taunt Mew with Seismic Toss/Shadow Ball. However, Tspikes completely wrecks Mew so an absorber is necessary on top of everything else. I guess running Tentacruel as a Tspiker/absorber/rapid spinner is the best way to consolidate things enough. Chansey/Dusclops/Gyarados or Skarmoury/Tentacruel is pretty solid defensively. That still leaves room for Stallbreaker Mew with Shadow Ball and Hippowdon.
/sidetracking thread, Lol.
Anywho, I would wholeheartedly agree that if you are new to 5th gen, offense is a much better way to learn it.