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Stally team with sigilyph needs help!

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Karpi, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. Karpi

    Karpi

    Joined:
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    So, the entire reason of playing in the RU tier was so that I could abuse Sigilyph and its evil moveset. So that was what I built my team around. The basic structure that I've been using is Sigilyph + Entry hazard setter + Rapid spinner + spin-blocker + 2 other stalling pokemon. But I've been having some trouble, specifically with dragon types, and even more specifically with Rest Dragonair.

    [​IMG]
    Roselia (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Spikes
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Giga Drain

    Roselia is ok, but that's about it. I am definitely on the lookout for a less mediocre Toxic Spiker. That said, I do appreciate being able to win against Accelgor and the Toxic Spikes removal. But Roselia is definitely a pokemon I am willing to change out, provided I still have Toxic Spikes elsewhere.

    [​IMG]
    Moltres @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Toxic
    - Flamethrower

    I originally only added him because I saw SubRoost as another form of stalling, but he does so much more than that. This seems like the closest you can get to a Bisharp killer, so that is definitely a plus, and Toxic against many switch-ins seems to be an unexpected move. Not that I like to rely on unexpected, but I think even if Toxic Moltres were expected it would be effective. Other than that, he is basically my go-to pokemon for when there is no other obvious move. I am fairly comfortable with protecting him from Stealth Rock, so that isn't a large concern.

    [​IMG]
    Imposterdisc (Alomomola) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Scald
    - Toxic

    This pokemon is a god. I know there's some overlap between burn and poison, but I want Toxic to ensure that certain pokemon get poisoned (especially in a mirror match) if Toxic Spikes don't go down, and I want Scald as a spammable move and against steel types. I don't really think there's much to change here, unless there is a reason to run more speed on him. Or if I somehow find a better and more reliable Toxic Spiker, I could theoretically give up Toxic for something else. I'm open to giving up Alomomola for another Wish passer, but there definitely needs to be a good reason to do so.

    [​IMG]
    Cryogonal @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover
    - Haze

    I have mixed feelings about Cryogonal. I do really appreciate that he has Levitate as a spinner, and Haze is definitely a lifesaver (especially since I have no phazing moves!), but he's very mediocre overall. If I keep him, I would consider adding Toxic to deal with ghosts. A possible change is to drop Haze for Toxic and fit in a phazer on my team elsewhere. Or, you know, not use Cryogonal. I'm completely open to changing him to something else. Also, this is currently my only source of an Ice attack, so there's that, too.

    [​IMG]
    Spiritomb (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Foul Play
    - Pain Split
    - Taunt

    The best spinblocker I've come across. I'm pretty confident in his moveset as well. I just went for special defense because I feared opposing Cryogonals wearing him down, but that doesn't really seem to be an issue, so maybe I could try out physically defensive.

    [​IMG]
    Sigilyph (F) @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Cosmic Power
    - Roost
    - Stored Power
    - Psycho Shift

    This is pretty non-negotiable, I'm not willing to replace him since that was the whole point of me using this team. Although I'm open to being convinced on Cosmic Power vs Calm Mind, if you can provide a good argument.

    So that's what I've been using. I get faceraped by Dragonair and Fraxure, because they obviously outspeed and kill Cryogonal pre-Haze, and Spiritomb doesn't really stand a chance either, so I have to Scald spam, which isn't the most reliable strategy.

    It's also important to point out that I do end up using these status moves because Roselia is not the most reliable Toxic Spiker, and that is definitely one of my major concerns.

    Kabutops also makes me uncomfortable because Cryogonal is scared shitless of him. A Swords Dance set can really mess up my team. That also applies to some other boosting sweepers, and I would like to add phazing to my team if possible, but I don't know where.

    As of right now, the only pokemon I'm not willing to give up are Sigilyph and Spiritomb.
    EDIT: I have decided that, if it would make the rest of my team viable, I would be willing to take this team in a different direction and substitute Sigilyph for something else that would fix many of my existing problems. Basically, I'm just looking to turn this into something that lets me compete and have fun with whatever is necessary.

    Any help is always appreciated!
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
  2. An-94

    An-94

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    Messages:
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    Icicle plate on Cryogonal and protect over haze use scouting and run air slash on Moltres for a sub 2 attack set which still lets u KO luddicolo
  3. Karpi

    Karpi

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    214
    Please explain why I should give up Leftovers and Haze for Icicle Plate and Protect... it seems contrary to what Cryogonal's actual job is.

    I'll try Air Slash on Moltres because I had already thought to try that earlier today.
  4. An-94

    An-94

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    You have instant recovery, and I'd rather go for the KO with a STAB boosted ice beam than haze and let them damage cryo more than what it already is, also having protect allows you to scout out choiced sets which is good for predicting later on in the battle.
  5. Karpi

    Karpi

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    Uh, bump? I would really love some advice that isn't "give up your only method of stopping boosting sweepers". Unless 5th gen RU is already dead?
  6. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    The reason he recommends Icicle Plate and Protect is because: it's on Smogon. Literally the only reason he recommends it is because he's blindly following and telling others to follow Smogon sets whether or not they work in specific teams or even in general. You're doing the same thing with the Sigilyph set, so I recommend changing his item to Leftovers and Psycho Shift to basically whatever you want.
  7. An-94

    An-94

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    Yea sure Listen to this guy having that on cryo totes makes no sense at all hes obv battler of the year
  8. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    Then prove me wrong, prove to me why YOU (not Smogon) recommend THAT SPECIFIC SET for HIS SPECIFIC TEAM.
  9. An-94

    An-94

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    I just said it I play offense and is rather go for the ko than to try and lower thier stats and have them still ko cryo it's p fail and weak to the two most common types being fire and fighting so yea ko > haze
  10. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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  11. AquaAdmin

    AquaAdmin

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
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    Instead of Roselia, why not Scolipede? Basically has the same job as Roselia, but may be a bit more tailored to what I think you're looking for. Here's a set you might approve of:
    Scolipede @ Life Orb
    Trait: Poison Point
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Spikes
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    Life Orb for power, faster than even choice scarf Roselia (is that even a thing?), Pseudo-EdgeQuake because cool. You could opt for Quick Feet, but there isn't much point, because outside of paralysis, it wouldn't matter, and there aren't many pokemon that are known for paralysis you'd want to switch into.

    To be serious, the rest of the team is nice. It seems like it's working for you, but you may want airslash/hurricane on moltres for a bit more coverage.
    sigilyph is stupid unless it's offensive gg
    Good luck~
  12. An-94

    An-94

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    Yea lo sig is a monster
  13. LightningLuxray

    LightningLuxray
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    A quick rate, but I would recommend adding a Steel Type to reliably take care of Dark-and-Psychic types who could stop Sigilyph from sweeping. Something like Aggron can sponge hits from Pokemon like Spritomb and Mandibuzz and fire off a Head Smash. This would replace Moltres, as it is a burden to use, even with rapid spin support.

    Also, Clefable is a great special wall who can provide Heal Bell support for the rest of the team. Clefable can also set up Stealth Rocks, something this team needs. I would recommend getting rid of Cryo for it, as with two Magic Guard Pokemon and no Pokemon weak to Stealth Rocks (Unless you use Scolipede) Spin support isn't necessary.

    Anyways, I hope this helps, and have fun! :)
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  14. Qualna

    Qualna

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    Amoonguss in exchange of Roselia could not only solve your Dragonair problem(Fraxure gets worn down easily anyway) but it's a defensive boon to your team as well. Great bulk with fantastic typing and Regenerator and some more tricks like Clear Smog. Although it will be tough replacing 2 Pokémon on your team, as you obviously need Spikes and TSpikes. The recommended TSpiker on your team is Scolipede like the other guy said, but you need Megahorn as Scolipede just doesn't hit hard enough and Poison Point is silly because it can backfire and give a would be troublesome pokémon a weak Poison instead of Toxic.
  15. AquaAdmin

    AquaAdmin

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    Ah shit. I do think Amoonguss would be a fab addition, but it would take up two pokeslots if you were still hoping for a spiker. Megahorn would be great, but I don't find that it can blend as well as SlideQuake. Swarm+Megahorn could be worth it, but it's probably too much of a hassle. Since most of the time I realize that I'm making no sense, I'd actually recommend quick feet and trying to switch into a t-wave qwilfish or most any electric-type for paralysis to nerf the speed drop.
    Qualna likes this.
  16. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    Scolipede MUST run Megahorn. Spikes Scolipede either runs Megahorn AND SlideQuake coverage, or Megahorn + Aqua Tail, depending on if you run one or two moves out of Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Swords Dance.
    Scolipede needs its STAB to hit neutral targets hard enough, from my NU experience (which is a really frail metagame at this moment), even though SlideQuake coverage is very good.

    Otherwise, I don't know much about RU, so I leave it at this.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
  17. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    You don't know much about RU but you're basically listing combinations for a Smogon set. I'll say it again then, SMOGON SETS DO NOT WORK FOR EVERY SPECIFIC TEAM, generally they aren't at all.

    Looking at this team again, I actually think making Moltres offensive will help you out, allowing you to basically destroy many of the things you were walled by before (the team in general not Moltres) Basically 252 Spatk and Speed 4 whatever with Modest. SubRoost, Flamethrower (missing is much worse on a set like this), and Air Slash.

    Also, An-94, stop dodging the question when you're wrong.

  18. AquaAdmin

    AquaAdmin

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    asdfghjkl;'
    Megahorn isn't technically necessary for his team. He doesn't have an outstanding grass (Moltres), psychic (, or dark (the only dark types worth using is Absol, and Cryo can take its boosts away) weakness. It does, however, have trouble with many of the pokemon weak to SlideQuake.
  19. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    It's a strong general STAB though. Also even if Cryo Hazes, an Absol can just kill it with whatever it wants after, so it is worth considering.
  20. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    That might be the case, but from my own experience when using Scolipede, I know SlideQuake must hits targets for SE damage will it do actual half-decent damage. Otherwise generally bulky mons, like Eelektross, Samurott and Druddigon, just brush off its hits and either attack or set up on you depending on their sets.

    90 Atk isn't much, especially not for a coverage Rock Slide, which only has 75 BP. Not that bad if it hits for SE coverage - SlideQuake hits a lot - but you need a powerful STAB like Megahorn to hit things neutral to both for decent damage.

    However, like you guys said, I agree Megahorn isn't necessary to hit things for SE damage for this team, but you are using it for things that are not weak to SlideQuake and to be not complete set up bait for many mons, but you hit neutral targets at least for 180 damage instead of 100. Note that a neutral Megahorn hits harder than a SE Rock Slide (however, note that common targets for Rock Slide resist Megahorn).
  21. An-94

    An-94

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    We understand you hate smogon, you can leave. You even proved my point on how if Cryo Haze's it'll die to an Absol where as it can go for the KO with the icicle plate boosted ice beam, but that is a smogon set, it might not work, who knows. Then again why would cryo be in on absol
  22. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Ignoring all the useless conflict on this page, I recommend Calm Mind on Sigilyph since Cosmic Power takes time to really charge up Stored Power, whereas Psycho Shift + Flame Orb can patch up your unboosted physical defense. This opens you up to physical sweepers when you try to sweep, but you should try to weaken them with Alomo first. Calm Mind also means Sigi has a much easier time against Slowking.

    As for Spiritomb, just lob those 4 EVs into Def why don't you. If you don't need Taunt, you could possible opt for Sucker Punch for some priority on the team.
    Nozzle likes this.
  23. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    I don't hate Smogon directly, I hate the people who do what you're doing, blindly using a set of theirs without even bothering to think if it works with their team. I never said Haze was bad, though there is no reason to have Cryo anywhere near an Absol. And again you bring up Icicle Plate, which is bad on any Cyrogonal. You've proven my point many times now, you blindly suggest Smogon sets just for the sake of them being Smogon sets
  24. Qualna

    Qualna

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    lol dbzmariogeno, you already stumped that guy since the beggining lol, just stop, both of you
  25. An-94

    An-94

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    No I suggest it cos it works if it doesn't work it wouldn't be on the website I don't understand why ur upset with smogon move sets and if u have such a problem with them suggest your meta game changing move sets so they can be posted and no one stumped me you mindless cyber cheerleader everyone's opinions are different I'm not wrong or right for why I think icicle plate cryo works it's just my opinion

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