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[Standard] Peace NOCed down Mafia - The Bribed Win!

Discussion in 'Circus Maximus' started by Aura Guardian, Aug 11, 2010.

  1. FinnRagetti

    FinnRagetti

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    @ mafia team: Go Go Go!!!

    @ Everyone: This has been a fun game to watch and I definitely have some things I'd like to say post game in regards to both my play when I got lynched, the power of the mafia, and the "spy" incident.
  2. Aura Guardian

    Aura Guardian

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    Quoted for truth.
    Well, school just started up again for me, so that's a drain on my time.

    Anyways, GAME OVER. I'll write the update soon.
  3. Aura Guardian

    Aura Guardian

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    Suddenly, a massive BANG shakes the ground. Quagsires is crushed underneath a few dozen exploding barrels. And incinerated, etc. Suddenly, undisputed drops to the ground from Spiffy's bullet. And assassinfred falls next. Spiffy is the last man standing. "I've won... but at a terrible cost. Well, my name will be feared by all someday. And with these dead I can perform my geat magic again, and sink all of Peaceland into the sea. All will fear my name. ... I win."

    CONGRATULATIONS TO THE BRIBED, WINNERS OF PEACE NOCed DOWN MAFIA!

    I'll have a postgame later.
  4. Acklow

    Acklow

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    So for now, I would like to say that I should've came out before my partner in crime, J-squared, did. He was too anxious in making that inspector claim, and had he not claimed first, I am quite sure that the lynch on FinnRagetti would've ran smoothly. Also, I have to complain that had Raverist not made it SO obvious that he was cardflip, I am sure that the village would've gotten a better chance, IN GENERAL. Though the true outcome of the game would've surely been different. That is all I have to ramble about for now.
  5. Spiffy

    Spiffy

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    Spiffy for MVP!

    Well good game everyone. I have a few things to say.

    First I'll explain my picks for mafia. (yes I was the original Mafia Boss)

    FinnRagetti: He sayed in his signup post that he had grown to love NOC mafias, so I figured he had some experience in that type of mafia. It was a tough blow when he was lynched Day 2, seeing as he was basically leading the village. But he made himself a prime target for inspection was not very good.
    Veedrock: I wanted at least one player who had played in an expert game before. I was looking forward to killing billymills, and Yeti didn't have IRC, so Veedrock was chosen. He played pretty well in my opinion, but he overthrew me along with Alchemator the spy -_-. I really don't feel like explaining why he overthrew me, so he can do it. But I feel I made a pretty good choice as he helped out even after his death.
    Alchemator: Fuck you spy. :P
    Quagsires: I chose a relatively new player as a surprise factor in case the village just lynched off all the good players. Man did I make a great choice. No one expected him at all until it was too late. Good job, dude. If anyone deserves best player it's you.

    The village did not deserve to win at all. They were broken as hell, with two inspectors, a mayor, a vig, and a rogue with three lives. I can't believe you lynched and vigged Afroninja22 and fitzy. Who would pick them for a mafia team? (no offense)

    And coolking49 was way too aggressive with his vigging, which pretty much cost you guys the game.

    Raverist cost you the game too.

    EDIT: And Aura can you please put the winners in the title. :)
    Oh and I am the sole survivor. Go me!

    If I think of anything more to say I'll say it. :)
  6. THE_IRON_KENYAN

    THE_IRON_KENYAN 0 vv 0
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    10 times better as an observer

    props for Yeti getting yelled at and J-Man for getting lynched

    pretty fun for everyone but the poor saps suckered into joining these things
  7. Aura Guardian

    Aura Guardian

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    First, my spreadsheet
    https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...2ZNbUxFa0R6YnZHemRpSmc&hl=en&authkey=CMSf7LwJ

    This game was clearly inspired by Lockdown. After seeing Lockdown II result in a destroyed village because cardflip was off and reading Lockdown I and seeing a village destroyed by cardflip, I knew that somewhere in between was best. I also knew that the village is easily, underpowered, so I put in a vigilante and a modified rogue. I also liked the idea of a mayor. I used the idea of twin inspectors from an IRL game that I played in - they were powerful enough, but not too broken. However, the mafia was too overpowered in NOC games, so I decided to use something else from that IRL game: the Spy. In the IRL game, Spy was a villager, not a wolf's ally. However, the one time I got the role of Spy IRL saw me sac myself instantly to win the game for the village, so I knew it had to be balanced. After talking with Earthworm, I decided to make the Spy assist the wolf (making the wolf actually have a chance!), preventing "I'm the Spy, and USER1, USER2, USER3, and USER4 are mafia!" I also decided to add survival to the condition, of course. That would have worked, if Alchemator hadn't found that flagrant loophole (expect rules against loopholes in future games I host). In the end, this was a close game, and I think it was rather balanced, though the wolf needs a power-up and the village should have it's power roles in better hands (I think you can guess who I'm talking about)

    The players:

    4. undisputed - wolf

    undisputed requested any of the bad guys, and so few of you took advantage of that that I decided to grant it. Spiffy requested boss and didn't recruit him, so, naturally, I made him the wolf. Early game, he made sure to weaken the village as much as possible, and didn't hit any of the mafia. Unfortunately, he killed billymills instead of idling, meaning that the mafia was able to win - only if he'd fooled them and Quagsires hadn't tried to kill him or was tricked into thinking it was lost already and giving up and voting Spiffy would he have won, though. Neither happened, so he lost. His first two kills were both foiled by the BG, btw.

    5. spiffy - boss (original)

    Spiffy requested boss, and so he was. He basically killed and tried to find the spy, which ended with his overthrow and later Alchemator's stunt. The reason for his overthrow was that he was getting perinoid and Veedrock decided to be proactive. This resulted in Quagsires gaining the throne, only to die to the wolf in the game over. (Yes, this would have happened.)

    12. Quagsires - mafia, second boss

    Trusted Spiffy in the overthrow incident, wasn't fooled in the end-game by undisputed. Although he killed Alchemator too late, the mafia still won. Not much I have to say about him, though.

    19. shuckles my hero 21. assassinfred - basic player

    Acted suspicious, got inspected, helped from there on out. But he didn't really stick out in my mind. Mostly a competent player, though.

    8. J-man - Mayor.

    Was suspicious, got himself godkilled. This was followed later by FinnRagetti, iirc, making me not allow that form of godkill. However, his death - before Finn could stop the lynch (he told me he would have) - brought suspicion on Finn, ending that reign.

    17. Crux - basic player

    IIRC, the reason he was killed was for suspecting one of the mafia. Good work, bad luck while you lived.

    15. TPM 23. TotalPotato - basic player

    Vig killed for TPM's suspicious behavior, TotalPotato managed one post before he died ... sorry.

    3. finnragetti - mafia

    You were a bit too proactive in leading the village, meaning that you were suspected early on by the inspects, leading to your lynching. There is such a thing as "too active" is one lesson we all should learn about NOC from this game.

    20. Raverist - cardflip

    Not only did you make it painfully obvious what your role was, you didn't use it when it would have been ideal. N1 and D2 spring to mind. Don't make your power so obvious in future is my advice.

    9. Afroninja22 - basic player

    You had the misfortune of being suspected when the Inspects didn't have another target. However, your play was decent. With more experience, you could become a great player, though. /prediction

    7. Mattimeo - bodyguard

    Unfortunately, the wolf found you and killed you with enough priority to render your action moot. You made good protects, though - except that Raverist didn't capitalize on them enough.

    6. j-squared - twin inspector

    You claimed instead of your twin, which meant that there was a long debate. As Acklow said, you probably should have waited.

    16. fitzy72 - basic player

    Suspected and vig killed, wasn't able to do much from what I'd seen. Of course, my memory of those days has faded a bit.

    2. veedrock - mafia

    veedrock had the misfortune to be randed (high-likelyhood of getting a mafia that randing, though). He overthrew his first boss to save himself (luckily, not killing him). I was particularly amused by your Spy claim, which was one of the few reasons I didn't godkill Alchemator. (The others were the loophole and that I knew he'd die, anyways.)

    10. coolking49 - vigilante

    Unfortunately, billymills ousted you as vig (but it was to save himself - I'll grant him that). That numbered your days by a bit. Also, you had the misfortune of only hitting villagers. Perhaps the vigilante needs some modifications for future use.

    11. Acklow - twin inspector

    When you claimed, your days were clearly numbered. However, you did help get rid of two mafia. Overall, I'd say you were one of the better players. Also, although you didn't know this, mafia figured you out a while after j-squared claimed.

    14. -TheLucarioEffect- - basic player

    I don't know why I bother with postgames for those without a power role. However, you did try to contribute. Get more experience, I'd say.

    1. billymills - rogue

    You ousted the vig to save yourself, but I think that's excusable. Also, your jumping around Day 1 helped with gathering information by a lot. Unfortunately, you lead the lynch on TLE and Quagsires, forgetting/disregarding Alch mentioning the null vote - I think you should have had Alch vote on the other side and someone else against Quagsires.

    18. Alchemator - Spy

    The pride and joy of my roles. I knew the spy had to be someone who wouldn't draw suspicion, but would be competent in his own right. I settled on Alchemator, but didn't realize he'd pull that negatives stunt. Anyways, if he'd gotten a mafia lynched instead of TLE, then undisputed could have killed the last mafia for him, culminating in 2 kills for the wolf (only person Spy could win with).

    13. Yeti - basic player

    Was suspicious enough to inspect, then wasn't killed until near the end of the game. She basically followed the leader from what I saw. Unfortunately, the leaders didn't have the information they would have had in a non-NOC game.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    So:

    Downfall of the wolf: mafia's choice of successor. Not quite powerful enough.

    Downfall of the village: j-squared claiming instead of Acklow. Raverist ousting his own role. (One of the main roles, I might note!) Mattimeo protecting Raverist. billymills splitting the votes on TLE and Quagsires with the guy claiming null vote on the wrong side. The host for not making it clear that yes, the lynch on TLE went through.

    I know I missed things, so could you post your takes on the game? EDIT: also, I'll debate the brokenness or lack thereof for the village later.
  8. j-squared

    j-squared

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    Biggest mistake was not following my gut after N2 when I found out assassinfred and billymills were not mafia. I'll explain later. And not letting Acklow come out first...sorry.

    And in regards to the village being broken: we had a vigilante who killed a villager N1, a card-flip that did jack-shit, a mayor who got himself killed D1, a rogue (really powerful role there), a BG (standard), and twin inspects (basically one inspector with 2 lives). Yes, we were soo broken! /sarcasm

    I loved the spy role, but it made it very hard on the village, not to mention our many mistakes. There was zero chance for double-targeting/crossfire, which meant we were losing 2 villagers a night guaranteed unless the BG protected someone, which could only happen twice. Plus, we had to play the whole game thinking there were 5 mafia, which kinda forced our actions.

    More later.

    @Raverist - So, basically what your saying, we should have given up N0 when we found out we were village, and that is why you claimed your role so early. That sounds dumb.
  9. Raverist

    Raverist

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    Ehh, said it before, will say it again.

    NOC games never end with a victorious village. Yes, I played badly, but this was due to my own ineptitude at keeping my own role secret, as well as the fact that no NOC game I've ever seen has a victorious village. It really goes to show how dependant on outside communication that the village is.
  10. Yeti

    Yeti

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    This format really doesn't seem to be very effective. It's almost impossible for the wolf to win, because by the time the village has stated all their clean players, the mafia would be able to figure out who the wolf is.
    It's almost impossible for the village to win because everything they say is out in the open for the mafia and wolf to read. The village has no spreadsheet or secret information, making them an essentially clueless majority until enough of them die.

    Should anything happen to the inspectors (not as though the BG can keep them safe for long, his identity goes out the third time he protects one!) the village is essentially lost. You can guess, but if the mafia bands together to keep pushing for certain people, any newer, basic villagers will follow a group.

    When did either of these happen? J-Man suicided and nothing of the sort happened to me.
  11. vonFiedler

    vonFiedler GAMG GRGAK
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    The problem with NOC games is that the mafia has outside contact. I don't remember at summer camp a time when all the mafia players went into a cubby hole and talked to eachother and all the villagers just had to close their eyes. You're essentially playing half classic mafia, half forum mafia, and the forum half wins. We should do a true NOC mafia where the mafia can't communicate.
  12. j-squared

    j-squared

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    As for my gut instincts, I sent this to AG D2 during the Finn lynch:

    I sent this to him N2 after the Finn lynch:

    Once I found out assassinfred and billymills were village, I started to question my instincts. If I would have just stayed on these lists, I think we could have won...possibly. And yes, Quagsires was suspected Spiffy.

    So yeah, mafia, don't act like you played awesomely. I think undisput3d actually played the best game, I didn't really suspect him too much until the end. You're just lucky I fucked up Finn's lynch (with the help of Raverist not using the card-flip) which lead to me suspecting billymills and assassinfred more.
  13. -TheLucarioEffect-

    -TheLucarioEffect-

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    i'd like to second vonfiedler, though from spiffy's bitching, it sounds like the mafia couldn't communicate to well

    Oh and AG now i see why you wouldn't let me post it.

    Fitzy's dying message to me was that he was village and spiffy was mafia. but i was torn between figuring out if fitzy was mafia or not
  14. Mattimeo

    Mattimeo

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    I enjoyed it A_G.

    Shortly after the night I died I asked if it would've made a difference if I'd protected J^2 and it was a no. :(
    I think coolking was the better person to protect but I was pretty sure they'd go for J^2.
    When I first got the BG PM I figured I'd probably end up idling n1, couldn't just let raverist die though.
    The reason I didn't want to come out after my second protection was because had we lynched right, just like Finn and Veed, whoever we lynched would've made sure that the kills were coordinated. This didn't really matter because of the spy (not that Alch could come out and say Matt is bg).
    Something I was worried about was mafia claiming inspector after J^2 died but that probably would've been too much work.

    As always, so many things could've went differently so it wasn't just one mistake that cost the game. I think the game was easier for the village.
    We lost our mayor D1. Since the spy had a null vote the mayor might've been able to help mafia find the spy. Not sure if they'd have to sacrifice one to see but I'm sure there was a way.

    I liked the spy idea but I don't like how it allowed the wolf and mafia to coordinate.

    If there wasn't a spy I'd say the rogue should've been basic.

    I liked the twin inspectors. Without that the lone inspector doesn't have much chance of telling the village any information and unless they get lucky it'd just be a tease role.

    I obviously wish I'd had a higher priority, I guess I did kinda stop one kill by being a meat shield but... :(

    Overall I think it was mostly balanced but it could use a few tweaks.

    For complaining about PC++, I'm pretty sure I made about 1/20th of the posts and with 20 players, a host, and people not in the game I think that's fine. Were all of my posts needed? No, but [REMOVED BY ADMIN]. And that's why I think [DELETED].
    I'd like to see more of these and if PC++ is considered a problem with NOC then a subforum for them with disabled post counts would be nice. Could even toss postgames in it.

    I think I've mentioned having the memory of a goldfish and since I'm not really sure what I've said in this post anymore I'll just end it here so I don't risk repeating myself.

    PS: I suspected Spiffy right away because of his avatar.

    Edit: http://www.thebest404pageever.com/swf/lockthetaskbah.swf
  15. FinnRagetti

    FinnRagetti

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    I had fun with this one. I really did hope that someone would use my list and reverse it (making Spiffy/Alch clear) but sadly I didnt. I debated on whether to fuck up J-squared by going down as doctor or claiming mafia on lynch. I decided I'd play mindgames and admit that. I played like an overactive villager, and I guess J-squared saw me as suspicious and took me down. :/. O well. At least I got the wolf to kill my desired target. :D
  16. Acklow

    Acklow

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    Actually, I suspected that the Mafia would easily figure me out. That's obviously explained because I was so adamant in supporting J-square and lynching FinnRagetti. The only other person who would that Finn was mafia would obviously be the person supporting the Inspector in the lynch. -TLE- obviously could have "been" inspector, but when it came down to it, I even made hints about the inspector. And I'm quite sure that some of the village in addition to the mafia figured this out. Of course, I didn't make those blatantly obvious. I had the urge to write a paragraph early on, with the first letter of each sentence spelling out "I am an inspector." Of course, how would I do that without pointing out that my paragraph would not be what it seemed...but nevertheless, I enjoyed this game as much as I hated it. I knew that the game was basically a powder keg, waiting to blow up as soon as the J-man/Raverist/J-squared incidents occurred. I also was pretty worried that a mafian would come out and "counter" claim inspector after J-squared made his claim. It would've been easy to do too. All the mafia would've needed to do was have two of their guys "pretend" to be inspectors, (especially after Rave died) and claim so and so was clean, while so and so was not. Yeah, otherwise, I agree with vonFiedler's comment. Making this a FULL NOC would've benefited the village a little more.


    Edit: Also, I think that had we had a NO LYNCH Day 1, contrary to what most people said, we would've been in better shape, especially since FinnRagetti took the steering wheel a bit too early on (albeit we didn't know Finn was mafia until N1 was over, but I digress).
  17. Veedrock

    Veedrock

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    Another victory.

    EDIT: No Quagsires, but I feel the need to boast of my successes.
  18. Quagsires

    Quagsires

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    Contributing to the longer than Starwars Mafia Charity I see? It's quite a worthy cause...

    I'll post my thoughts when I have a little more time. Within the next day...
  19. undisputed

    undisputed
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Frontier Lackeyis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Oh well. I'm surprised that the mafia could kill me even though the boss was the only one with the kill and would be overpowered by me. It wasn't like I could've done anything better than that situation.

    Anyway, thanks to Alchemator! He was an awesome partner in crime and let me flood his inbox with my ideas and whatever. We basically ran the entire game (and should have won) as every kill, even if some were obvious, was coordinated through Alch by me. His last post in the thread was pretty awesome, and its too bad priority didn't make sense. lol

    These are the PMs I sent to Alch (about kills that mattered):
    Show Hide



    Billy: You are the idiot here, no offense. If I killed a mafia, I would be handing the village the game.
  20. Spiffy

    Spiffy

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    Why do you keep saying you ran the whole game? In case you didn't notice, FinnRagetti and Veedrock gave you targets when they were being lynched. And we thought of our own targets anyway, you just happened to have the same ideas.

    If you were running the game you would have won. :)
  21. undisputed

    undisputed
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    Finn and Veedrock never gave me anything? And kills still had to be timed so that I didn't kill the same person you did. So good job on figuring out who you wanted to kill who was exactly the person I told Alch to tell you guys to get. Good foresight knowing I would kill Coolking so you would logically get Acklow when Coolking was obviously the bigger threat to you. lol

    And your theory doesn't apply here; I didn't win. 'gg'
  22. Yeti

    Yeti

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    You could have idled and left it 2-2-1.....

    But once again, a game proves the effects of a neutral can entirely dictate the ending.

    I agree with vonFiedler, the mafia shouldn't be able to communicate either.
    And the wolf being able to coordinate kills with the mafia due to a spy? "lol" way to set up the village to be slaughtered.

    Spiffy your faction was really obvious. The only member I wasn't positive on was Quagsires, the rest......... lol can you say mafia??
    I wasn't more forceful because I trusted j^2 and billymills but that was a mistake. I should have pushed lynching Alch and you instead of letting billy try to tie it when I knew TLE wasn't bad. 8\
    Oh well.
  23. undisputed

    undisputed
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    If I idled, it would still be evident I was the wolf when no one died (since the game would be over otherwise). Then Billy would have had me lynched. If he didn't, then I can't trust the last mafian to not kill me as it is their only way to win. (ie I kill off a villager before the mafia kills me on the same night so its down to one villager vs. one mafia) If the mafia didn't kill me, which doesn't make sense, I would've lost to whatever this stupid priority system is because its 1 mafia v. 1 wolf and the mafia apparently has higher priority over the most powerful neutral in the game.
  24. j-squared

    j-squared

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    Oh, and for those who say they figured out who my partner was…big f’in deal. The earliest you could have done something about it was N3, at which point it didn’t matter. I was trying to stay away from Acklow’s page, but I messed up D1 and D2 when trying to send him a PM (stupid mouse). I made sure to check everyone’s pages immediately afterwards those days. D3 I did the same thing, but I didn’t really care at that point…it should have been somewhat obvious who my twin was at that point (most of the village roles had claimed, plus all your mafia friends that you knew), and you had much better targets.
  25. undisputed

    undisputed
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    Even if you didn't I still lose. I was just covering that option.

    Option 1: I idle and the numbers are 2-2-1. Then, if you lynch me you lose, but you probably wouldn't. So if you lynch quag or spiffy, its 2-1-1 going into the night. I have to hope that the new boss doesn't kill me (which is their only way to win). I also have to hope you don't guess correctly and Rogue the one of us that will kill you. I can't even talk to the mafia so that becomes more complicated in coordination. The only way I guarantee making it through the night is by killing the new boss, and then I lose the lynch.

    Option 2: I kill a mafia. Then its 2-1-1 IF the mafia got their kill off. The village can either idle and wait for a tie, or the village can now lynch whichever of us they want while the mafia/wolf would badwagon against the other, because if they do, they win the game. Now I only win here if you guys decide to lynch Quag/Spiffy. Your best option is to idle and let us tie the vote on each other. The next night, the mafia would kill me while I killed a villager to hopefully go to 1 village v. 1 mafia. I can only win in this situation if the decide to kill you assasinfred AND you don't pick the correct one of us. But even then, I don't think Quag/Spiffy would have been dumb enough to not try and kill me.

    Option 3: I kill a villager, and let it come down to a tie, and let should-be priority win me the game.

    I thought it through. That's why I killed you. If you don't understand, I'll be glad to help.

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