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Stantler (Revamp) [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by scorpdestroyer, Nov 26, 2013.

  1. scorpdestroyer

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    [Overview]

    <p>Stantler is rather mediocre in NU. It is outclassed by Kangaskhan and Tauros, both of which are speedier, are more powerful, and have better abilities. The only thing Stantler has over other Normal-types is its access to the combination of Intimidate and Sucker Punch, which allows it to take a few physical hits and support the team by weakening the opponent, and gives it a decent priority move to defeat faster threats such as Kadabra. However, because this niche is extremely specific, it is generally more beneficial to use other Normal-types instead.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Double-Edge
    move 2: Sucker Punch
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Intimidate
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Double-Edge is Stantler's most powerful STAB move and is needed to hit opponents as hard as possible. However, it should be noted that the combination of Double-Edge and Life Orb recoil will kill Stantler very quickly. Sucker Punch allows Stantler to hit faster threats such as Kadabra and Gardevoir, as well as finish off faster threats that are sufficiently weakened. Earthquake is a coverage move for hitting Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon. Finally, Toxic is mostly a filler move, but its utility lies in allowing Stantler to cripple physical walls such as Misdreavus and Alomomola.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Jolly nature allows Stantler to outrun positive-natured base 80 Pokemon, such as Braviary and Gardevoir, as well as Adamant Sawk. However, an Adamant nature is also viable, as it guarantees that Stantler 2HKOes Metang with Earthquake. Intimidate is the chosen ability because it allows Stantler to survive a few weaker hits. It also allows Stantler to act as a pivot against weaker opponents, although it is still extremely frail. Sap Sipper isn't used because it leaves Stantler entirely outclassed by Sawsbuck and it is illegal with Double-Edge and Sucker Punch, which are both very important parts of Stantler's moveset. Double-Edge is the only viable STAB move because Stantler cannot do enough damage with Return; for example, it cannot 2HKO Miltank without Double-Edge. Life Orb helps Stantler nab several important KOs, such as the 2HKO against Metang. Gothorita is an excellent teammate, as it can trap and eliminate physical walls such as Regirock and Alomomola, allowing Stantler to sweep. Skuntank and Liepard are also good teammates for Pursuit trapping opposing defensive Ghost-types, especially Misdreavus, which are troublesome to Stantler. Entry hazard support is also beneficial for Stantler to enable it to grab a few extra KOs. For example, a layer of Spikes is needed to 2HKO physically defensive Seismitoad. Garbodor is a decent Spikes user that also covers up Stantler's weakness to Fighting-type moves, and it is especially useful for dealing with the troublesome Primeape. Roselia is also a decent Spikes user and defeats both Alomomola and Tangela, which are rather troublesome to Stantler. Both of these previously mentioned Spikes users can also set up Toxic Spikes, which helps wear down Alomomola and Tangela. Finally, Seismitoad is also a good partner, as it can set up Stealth Rock and help Stantler defeat Regirock.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A mixed set with Thunderbolt sounds like a decent option to lure in and defeat Alomomola, but in reality, it is very weak and deals only about 50% to its main target, which can be easily recovered through Regenerator, meaning this lure is useless. Work Up and Calm Mind can be used on mixed sets, but using Work Up usually means that physical walls are more wary of switching in. Substitute can be used to shield Stantler from faster threats, but the recoil from Substitute, Life Orb, and Double-Edge recoil adds up very quickly. Jump Kick is an option to hit Bronzor and Cradily, both of which otherwise wall Stantler. Megahorn can also be used, but it doesn't do a lot of damage to Tangela, and Exeggutor is 2HKOed by Double-Edge anyway. Thunder Wave and Hypnosis are decent supporting options in Stantler's movepool, but Stantler's bulk is a little too low to use these options effectively. Energy Ball is a decent option to defeat Seismitoad, but it doesn't really hit anything else. Stantler has access to dual screens, but apart from its access to Intimidate, this set is rather outclassed by the likes of Serperior, Gardevoir, and Ampharos. Choice Band is a decent option, but it doesn't utilize Sucker Punch effectively and is done better by Kangaskhan. Choice Scarf is not a good option either, as it fails to reach the base 95 Speed benchmark and is terribly outclassed by Tauros.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Misdreavus is one of the best counters to Stantler, as it is immune to Stantler's STAB move and can avoid Sucker Punch by burning it with Will-O-Wisp, crippling it for the rest of the match. Physical walls do a great job at countering Stantler, as it can barely scratch them. Regirock, Alomomola, and Tangela are all examples of physical walls that have no trouble with Stantler. These physical walls can proceed to wear down Stantler with status or a STAB move. Golbat and Weezing are solid checks to Stantler, as they are immune to Toxic and are relatively bulky, but they must remain healthy in order to stomach Double-Edge. Bulky Fighting-types, such as Gurdurr and Throh, take little damage from Stantler's moves and can retaliate with Drain Punch and Circle Throw, respectively. Defensive Carracosta walls Stantler thanks to Solid Rock and can wear it down with repeated Waterfalls. Braviary is a decent Pokemon that discourages Stantler from switching in in the first place, because if it does, Braviary gets a free Attack boost thanks to Defiant. Finally, faster Pokemon, such as Choice Scarf Braviary and Choice Band Primeape, can easily revenge kill Stantler due to its frailty. However, the frailer ones need to beware of being hit by Sucker Punch.</p>

    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    - Pretty bad
    - outclassed entirely by other normals especially Kanga which has Scrappy, more power, speed and special bulk
    - Tauros also outclasses it
    - only niche is intimidate that allows it to tank a little bit more, and sucker punch
    - use something else

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Double-Edge
    move 2: Sucker Punch
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Intimidate
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - DE is needed to hit hard, STAB
    - Sucker Punch hits Gardevoir, Jynx, other faster threats
    - EQ for rocks and steels
    - Toxic to cripple walls switching in, sorta filler move

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - Jolly gets the jump on Drifblim, Braviary, Gardevoir, Asamant Sawk. Adamant helps nab some KOs such as on Metang
    - Sap Sipper but why aren't you using Sawsbuck. Also illegal with sucker and double edge
    - Intimidate also helps it survive some weak hits and priority and helps the team a bit
    - Return, but you need the extra power. Without double edge you miss out on KOs eg. you can't 2HKO Miltank
    - Life Orb helps nab KOs such as EQ vs Metang
    - Goth is a good partner to eliminate physical walls eg. Mola, Regirock
    - Skunk and Liepard helps vs troublesome Ghost-types
    - entry hazard support is needed to grab extra KOs eg. 1 layer of spikes is needed to 2hko defensive toad
    - Garbodor and Scolipede are good spikes setters as they cover up on fighting weakness
    - Roselia sets up spikes and beats Alomomola and tangela
    - they also can set up toxic spikes to weaken Alomomola and tangela easier
    - Seismitoad can set up rocks and beat Regirock

    [Other Options]

    - Mixed but does jack shit to Alomomola
    - Work Up and Calm Mind
    - Substitute but recoil adds up
    - Jump Kick to hit Bronzor and Cradily
    - Megahorn but does jack shit to Tangela, DE 2HKOes Eggy anyway
    - Thunder Wave, Hypnosis
    - Energy ball, Thunderbolt
    - Dual Sceeens but Intimidate is the only thing that sets it apart from Gardevoir, Ampharos, etc
    - Band is done better by more powerful teammates like Kanga
    - Scarf doesn't even reach +1 base 95s, badly outclassed by Tauros

    [Checks and Counters]

    - Misdreavus can burn it
    - Regirock, Alomomola, Tangela, Weezing
    - Bulky fighting types eg. Gurdurr, Throh
    - Defensive Costa
    - Defiant Pokemon eg. Braviary
    - Faster Pokemon eg. Scarf Braviary, CB Ape but the frailer ones need to beware of Sucker
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  2. Alonsoforever

    Alonsoforever

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    When mentioning competition, Tauros should be there in the overview, it's so much better than Stantler... I guess the ability that gives Stantler a niche is Sap Sipper, and not Intimidate, with Intimidate you have a much worse Tauros, who is also better for a Life Orb set with Sheer Force. Well, Sap Sipper and Sucker Punch is what makes it different from Tauros, but Tauros does however have blazing speed for the tier, something Stantler does not have. Mention also Jump Kick, at least in OO, and I guess Megahorn should be AC, if not slashed.
  3. scorpdestroyer

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    I discussed this with some QC members before (ebeast, Soulgazer, some others i dont remember) and they said Intimidate was better. Sap Sipper is entirely outclassed by Sawsbuck as now Stantler has no more Sucker Punch to set it apart, and without Double-Edge you also miss a hell lotta KOs, plus Intimidate is likely to come in handy more often than Sap. Idk if Jump Kick should be mentioned because the only thing it really hits harder is Bronzor and there isn't really a reason to use it, but if QC thinks OO is a good place then ok. Megahorn is really shitty because it doesn't even 2HKO Tangela, and it can easily put you to sleep / paralyze you / kill you and switch back out thanks to Regenerator
  4. Alonsoforever

    Alonsoforever

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    Bronzor, and Air Balloon Steel-type Pokémon (maybe Probopass or Bastiodon), while not common, if they come after a KO or in an EQ, Jump Kick is the best option to hit those, so at least it deserves OO. And well Megahorn is good to hit Grass-types if you have Sap Sipper. Poor Stantler, with Sap Sipper it's a bad Sawsbuck, and with Intimidate it's a bad Tauros.
  5. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    Jump Kick is fine in OO, it's a viable enough option after all. Dual Screen in OO as well, Stantler can use them but it has nothing to distinguish itself from others except Intimidate. Mention with Intimidate that as Stantler is still pretty frail, a main factor of its usefulness stems from allowing Stantler to pivot in to help the team somewhat even when it itself cannot survive a hit.
  6. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast O_O
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    The nature should probably be Jolly, outspeeds stuff like Drifblim / Gardy / Braviary / Adamant Sawk before they can OHKO back or set up a Sub in Drifblim's case.

    Also reword the second point in AC, because DE recoil means Rott can 2HKO you when switching in. Just say that Intimidate lets Stantler tank some hits / priority and somewhat support its team with the Attack drop.

    Do that and WhiteDMist's changes and QC 1/3 scorpdestroyer
  7. FLCL

    FLCL
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    life orb should be first and only item, kanga is the only normal that should use silk scarf since it carries 2 normal moves and has scrappy
  8. scorpdestroyer

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    Implemented. Kept adamant as a secondary slash unless QC objects, cause I vaguely remember that Stantler needs it for some KOs

    @below I'm on phone now and I'll check later, but I'm p sure there're KOs. If there aren't I'll just remove
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  9. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    What are the KO's? If it is slashed in the set you need specific examples.

    edit: O yea, congrats on the tourney btw.
  10. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer
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  11. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    NU CC IS ALIVE

    written up
  12. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    You also could elaborate more on how Intimidate makes Stantler a pivot, pointing out that it is still very frail despite the buffer.
  13. FLCL

    FLCL
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    it's access to sucker punch is not an advantage over other normal types since kangaskhan gets it

    mention that you die quickly from double edge + LO recoil
  14. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Implemented

    Also FLCL I meant the combo of intimidate + sucker (since tauros also gets intimidate) but made that clearer
  15. FLCL

    FLCL
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    also weezing and golbat do not have "no troubles with stanler". the former needs to be at 100% hp to avoid the 2hko from double edge while the latter can be 2hkoed after stealth rock damage. i would just mention that they are very solid checks instead

    qc 3/3
  16. melvni

    melvni
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    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple
    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Stantler is rather mediocre in NU. It is outclassed by Kangaskhan and Tauros, both of which are speedier, are (or a different change you think sounds better; you just need to make sure you have parallel structure in your list here) more powerful, and have better abilities. The only thing Stantler has over other Normal-types is its access to the combination of Intimidate and Sucker Punch, which allows it to take a few physical hits and support the team by weakening the opponent while having and gives it a decent priority move to defeat faster threats such as Jynx. However, because this niche is extremely specific, it is often generally more beneficial to use other Normal-types instead.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Double-Edge
    move 2: Sucker Punch
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Intimidate
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Double-Edge is Stantler's most powerful STAB move and it is needed to hit opponents harder as hard as possible. However, it ahould should be noted that the combination of Double-Edge and Life Orb recoil will kill Stantler very quickly. Sucker Punch allows Stantler to hit faster threats such as Jynx and Gardevoir, as well as finish off faster threats that are sufficiently weakened. Earthquake is a coverage move on for hitting Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon. Finally, Toxic is mostly a filler move, but it allows Stantler to cripple physical walls, such as Misdreavus and Alomomola.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Jolly nature allows Stantler to outrun positive natured positive-natured base 80 Pokemon, such as Braviary and Gardevoir, as well as Adamant Sawk. However, an Adamant nature is also viable as it guarantees that Stantler 2HKOes Metang with Earthquake. Intimidate is the chosen ability because it allows Stantler to survive a few weaker hits and priority while supporting its teammates. It also allows Stantler to act as a pivot against weaker opponents, although it is still extremely frail even after Intimidate. Sap Sipper isn't used because it leaves Stantler entirely outclassed by Sawsbuck, (remove comma) and it is illegal with Double-Edge and Sucker Punch, which are both very important moves in parts of Stantler's moveset. Double-Edge is the only viable STAB move, (remove comma) because Stantler is much weaker if it chooses to use cannot do enough damage with Return. For example, it can no longer 2HKO Miltank. Life Orb helps Stantler nab several important KOs, such as the 2HKO against Metang. Gothorita is an excellent teammate as it can trap and eliminate physical walls, such as Regirock and Alomomola, allowing Stantler to sweep. Skuntank and Liepard are also good teammates to Pursuit trap opposing defensive Ghost-types, especially Misdreavus, which are troublesome to Stantler. Entry hazard support is also beneficial to for Stantler to enable it to grab a few extra KOs. For example, a layer of Spikes is needed to 2HKO physically defensive Seismitoad. Garbodor and Scolipede are decent Spikes users that also cover up on Stantler's weakness to Fighting-type moves, and the former is especially useful for dealing with the troublesome Primeape. Roselia is also a decent Spikes user, (remove comma) and defeats both Alomomola and Tangela, which are rather troublesome to Stantler. All these previously mentioned Spikes users can also set up Toxic Spikes, which helps wear down Alomomola and Tangela. Finally, Seismitoad is also a good partner, as it sets can set up Stealth Rock and helps help Stantler to defeat Regirock.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A mixed set with Thunderbolt sounds like a decent option to lure in and defeat Alomomola, but in reality it is very weak and deals only about 50% to it its main target, and this lost HP which can be easily recovered through Regenerator, meaning this lure is useless. Work Up and Calm Mind can be used on mixed sets, but using Work Up usually means that physical walls are more wary of switching in. Substitute can be used to shield Stantler from faster threats, but the recoil from Substitute, Life Orb, and Double-Edge recoil adds up very quickly. Jump Kick is an option to hit Bronzor and Cradily, all both of which otherwise wall Stantler. Megahorn can also be used, but it doesn't do a lot of damage to Tangela, while and Exeggutor is 2HKOed by Double-Edge anyway. Thunder Wave and Hypnosis are decent supporting options in Stantler's movepool, although but Stantler's bulk is a little too low to use these options effectively. Energy Ball and Thunderbolt are decent options in Stantler's special movepool to defeat Seismitoad and Alomomola respectively, but they don't hit much apart from these threats (might want to consider cutting the Thunderbolt part in this; you already mentioned that in the first sentence here). Stantler has access to Dual Screens dual screens, but apart from its access to Intimidate, this set is rather outclassed by the likes of Serperior, Gardevoir, and Ampharos. Choice Band is a decent option, but it doesn't utilize Sucker Punch effectively and is done better by Kangaskhan. Choice Scarf is not a good option either, as it fails to reach the base 95 Speed benchmark and this set is terribly outclassed by Tauros.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Misdreavus is one of the best counters to Stantler, as it is immune to Stantler's STAB move and can avoid Sucker Punch by burning it with Will-O-Wisp, crippling it for the rest of the match. Physical walls do a great job at countering Stantler, as it can barely scratch them. Regirock, Alomomola, and Tangela are all examples of physical walls that have no trouble with Stantler. These physical walls can proceed to wear down Stantler with status or a STAB move. Golbat and Weezing are solid checks to Stantler, as they are immune to Toxic and are relatively bulky, but they must remain healthy in order to stomach Double-Edge. Bulky Fighting-types, such as Gurdurr and Throh, take little damage from Stantler's moves and can retaliate with Drain Punch and Circle Throw respectively. Defensive Carracosta walls Stantler thanks to Solid Rock, (remove comma) while wearing and can wear it down with repeated Waterfalls. Braviary is a decent Pokemon that discourages Stantler from switching in in the first place, because if it does, Braviary gets a free Attack boost thanks to Defiant. Finally, faster Pokemon, such as Choice Scarf Braviary and Choice Band Primeape, can easily revenge kill Stantler due to its frailty. However, the frailer ones need to beware of being hit by Sucker Punch.</p>


    GP: 1/2
  17. scorpdestroyer

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    thanks melvni, time for GP #2
  18. Kingler12345

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    [Overview]

    <p>Stantler is rather mediocre in NU. It is outclassed by Kangaskhan and Tauros, both of which are speedier, are more powerful, and have better abilities. The only thing Stantler has over other Normal-types is its access to the combination of Intimidate and Sucker Punch, which allows it to take a few physical hits and support the team by weakening the opponent,(AC) and gives it a decent priority move to defeat faster threats such as Jynx. However, because this niche is extremely specific, it is generally more beneficial to use other Normal-types instead.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Double-Edge
    move 2: Sucker Punch
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Intimidate
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Double-Edge is Stantler's most powerful STAB move and is needed to hit opponents as hard as possible. However, it should be noted that the combination of Double-Edge and Life Orb recoil will kill Stantler very quickly. Sucker Punch allows Stantler to hit faster threats such as Jynx and Gardevoir, as well as finish off faster threats that are sufficiently weakened. Earthquake is a coverage move for hitting Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon. Finally, Toxic is mostly a filler move, but it allows its utility lies in allowing Stantler to cripple physical walls, (RC) such as Misdreavus and Alomomola.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Jolly nature allows Stantler to outrun positive-natured base 80 Pokemon, such as Braviary and Gardevoir, as well as Adamant Sawk. However, an Adamant nature is also viable,(AC) as it guarantees that Stantler 2HKOes Metang with Earthquake. Intimidate is the chosen ability because it allows Stantler to survive a few weaker hits. It also allows Stantler to act as a pivot against weaker opponents, although it is still extremely frail. Sap Sipper isn't used because it leaves Stantler entirely outclassed by Sawsbuck and it is illegal with Double-Edge and Sucker Punch, which are both very important parts of Stantler's moveset. Double-Edge is the only viable STAB move because Stantler cannot do enough damage with Return. F ; for example, it can no longer cannot 2HKO Miltank without Double-Edge. Life Orb helps Stantler nab several important KOs, such as the (isnt that adamant only...) 2HKO against Metang. Gothorita is an excellent teammate,(AC) as it can trap and eliminate physical walls,(RC) such as Regirock and Alomomola, allowing Stantler to sweep. Skuntank and Liepard are also good teammates to for Pursuit trapping opposing defensive Ghost-types, especially Misdreavus, which are troublesome to Stantler. Entry hazard support is also beneficial for Stantler to enable it to grab a few extra KOs. For example, a layer of Spikes is needed to 2HKO physically defensive Seismitoad. Garbodor and Scolipede are decent Spikes users that also cover up Stantler's weakness to Fighting-type moves, and the former is especially useful for dealing with the troublesome Primeape. Roselia is also a decent Spikes user and defeats both Alomomola and Tangela, which are rather troublesome to Stantler. All these previously mentioned Spikes users can also set up Toxic Spikes, which helps wear down Alomomola and Tangela. Finally, Seismitoad is also a good partner, as it can set up Stealth Rock and help Stantler defeat Regirock.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A mixed set with Thunderbolt sounds like a decent option to lure in and defeat Alomomola, but in reality,(AC) it is very weak and deals only about 50% to its main target, which can be easily recovered through Regenerator, meaning this lure is useless. Work Up and Calm Mind can be used on mixed sets, but using Work Up usually means that physical walls are more wary of switching in. Substitute can be used to shield Stantler from faster threats, but the recoil from Substitute, Life Orb, and Double-Edge recoil adds up very quickly. Jump Kick is an option to hit Bronzor and Cradily, both of which otherwise wall Stantler. Megahorn can also be used, but it doesn't do a lot of damage to Tangela, and Exeggutor is 2HKOed by Double-Edge anyway. Thunder Wave and Hypnosis are decent supporting options in Stantler's movepool, but Stantler's bulk is a little too low to use these options effectively. Energy Ball is a decent option to defeat Seismitoad, but it doesn't really hit anything else. Stantler has access to dual screens, but apart from its access to Intimidate, this set is rather outclassed by the likes of Serperior, Gardevoir, and Ampharos. Choice Band is a decent option, but it doesn't utilize Sucker Punch effectively and is done better by Kangaskhan. Choice Scarf is not a good option either, as it fails to reach the base 95 Speed benchmark and is terribly outclassed by Tauros.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Misdreavus is one of the best counters to Stantler, as it is immune to Stantler's STAB move and can avoid Sucker Punch by burning it with Will-O-Wisp, crippling it for the rest of the match. Physical walls do a great job at countering Stantler, as it can barely scratch them. Regirock, Alomomola, and Tangela are all examples of physical walls that have no trouble with Stantler. These physical walls can proceed to wear down Stantler with status or a STAB move. Golbat and Weezing are solid checks to Stantler, as they are immune to Toxic and are relatively bulky, but they must remain healthy in order to stomach Double-Edge. Bulky Fighting-types, such as Gurdurr and Throh, take little damage from Stantler's moves and can retaliate with Drain Punch and Circle Throw,(AC) respectively. Defensive Carracosta walls Stantler thanks to Solid Rock and can wear it down with repeated Waterfalls. Braviary is a decent Pokemon that discourages Stantler from switching in in the first place, because if it does, Braviary gets a free Attack boost thanks to Defiant. Finally, faster Pokemon, such as Choice Scarf Braviary and Choice Band Primeape, can easily revenge kill Stantler due to its frailty. However, the frailer ones need to beware of being hit by Sucker Punch.</p>

    too many sentences starting with for example that could be merged =(
    scorp ^.^
    gp 2/2
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  19. scorpdestroyer

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  20. Raseri

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    uploaded!

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