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Starmie (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by bugmaniacbob, Oct 22, 2010.

  1. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    [​IMG]

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/121.shtml
    I claim this echinoderm for Britain, by Jove and all that.

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    -------------------------

    [Overview]

    <p>Starmie is one of four Pokemon, the others being Gengar, Snorlax, and Zapdos, who had been in the OU tier ever since they were first introduced in RBY, and all four of them have arguably changed very little since they were first introduced. Starmie has always had its acclaimed BoltBeam coverage alongside its powerful Water-type STAB, backed by its impressive Speed and reasonable Special Attack, and this remains the very core of its power. However, in the generation shift it gained a number of new and useful tools. In the way of new attacks, Starmie received Psyshock, which when combined with Choice Specs, a Modest nature, and Stealth Rock can actually allow Starmie to 2HKO its greatest nemesis, Blissey—which means that Starmie can reclaim its old title of having no safe switch-ins. Another useful tool is Scald, a Water-type Lava Plume, which can allow Starmie to spread the burn status around the foe's team, and also to catch out and cripple a Pursuit-trapper that tries to get lucky.</p>

    <p>However, with a new generation comes new enemies that threaten Starmie greatly. Ferrothorn stands out among them, as it is able to take just about everything Starmie has and is equipped with every tool necessary to stop it, and Whimsicott promises to be a great source of annoyance as well. Despite all this, the future is not necessarily bleak for the falling star. With the introduction of so many new and fast threats, Starmie's high Speed will likely be called upon much more often than before, not to mention the value of Rapid Spinning for Pokemon such as Volcarona, especially considering Starmie's ability to defeat Jellicent, Chandelure, and Golurk. All in all, expect Starmie to be just as good as it has always been, and that's higher praise than most.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Recover / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Where would Starmie be without its bread-and-butter offensive set? While its composition has certainly not remained constant, Starmie's offensive set has barely changed in its fundamental impact, with a high-power STAB attack backed up by comprehensive coverage and recovery. Hydro Pump is a hard-hitting STAB attack that Starmie uses very well; however, it is certainly true that its accuracy is questionable. Therefore, some may prefer the more reliable Surf as an alternative. The next two slots are devoted to attacking moves, which cover all the types that resist Starmie's Water-type STAB; Ice Beam covers Grass- and Dragon-types while Thunderbolt strikes down opposing Water-types, providing a combination resisted by none but Shedinja and Volt Absorb Lanturn.</p>

    <p>In the last slot, Recover is the traditional option, which lengthens Starmie's lifespan, and becomes all the more important when you consider the recoil caused by Life Orb. Passive damage can wear Starmie down very quickly, and so it is advisable to keep a recovery move in reserve; however, in this new generation, in order to meet the rising demands of an ever-increasing threat list, you can choose to drop Recover in favor of a number of attacking options. Hidden Power Fire is chief among them, allowing Starmie to easily 2HKO Ferrothorn, one of Starmie's biggest threats, and also allowing Starmie to remove Scizor with little trouble. On the other hand, Psyshock is a secondary STAB move that can actually 2HKO Calm Blissey, removing Starmie's greatest nemesis. However, remember that neither of these moves have much utility outside of these specific targets, so generally Recover is better unless you have no other way of dealing with the aforementioned threats on your team. Rapid Spin is also an option in the last slot if you think you have partners that could make good use of it, or just want a way to surprise the opponent.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs and nature are relatively straightforward. Timid and 252 Speed EVs are essential in order to outrun the very large contingent of Pokemon lurking just above the base 100 mark, with particular emphasis on Salamence and Terrakion. After that, maximize Special Attack to hit as hard as possible, and then chuck the rest in HP. Much of Starmie's success stems from its ability of choice, Natural Cure, which makes it effectively immune to status, making Thunder Wave and Toxic essentially a non-issue. For alternative STAB moves, Scald is another option in the first moveslot if you want to try to cripple the opponent's physical sweepers, and it has pretty decent power as well.</p>

    <p>Entry hazard support is very helpful to allow Starmie to achieve the necessary 2HKOs and OHKOs that it promises, as it is essentially operating unboosted. Politoed is an excellent partner to Starmie due to its Drizzle ability, and Starmie can perform extremely well on a dedicated rain offense team, thanks to the combination of its Speed and type coverage. Not only does Drizzle banish the weather effects that plague Starmie so, it also boosts Starmie's Water-type STAB moves and allows the use of Thunder, which becomes far more reliable under the rain. Also, if you are not carrying any recovery move, Starmie will greatly appreciate Wish support from Blissey or Vaporeon, allowing it to continue its rampage for longer.</p>

    <p>With the strength of its type coverage, Starmie has very few Pokemon that can switch into it directly. It is also very difficult to outrun and hence revenge kill without resorting to priority. However, the main bulky Pokemon who will be causing Starmie pain include Ferrothorn, Blissey, and Snorlax. Eviolite Porygon2 is also a massive pain, as it is not 2HKOed even by Hydro Pump without previous damage, and can strike back with Thunderbolt or just Recover off its damage. All of these Pokemon have a Fighting-type weakness, so a Pokemon such as Conkeldurr or Machamp can be a fantastic ally to dispose of them. Dugtrio can trap and revenge kill Blissey thanks to Arena Trap and STAB Earthquake, and can also threaten Snorlax, Tyranitar, and various Steel-types. To deal with Ferrothorn, Magnezone can be employed to trap and OHKO with Hidden Power Fire. Magnezone is also a useful ally against Scizor, who could try to revenge kill Starmie with Bullet Punch or U-turn, and can also use its powerful Electric-type STAB moves against bulky Water-types.</p>

    <p>Aside from these dedicated special walls, Starmie will generally have the most trouble with bulky Grass- and Water-types, especially Ferrothorn and Kingdra. Both have resistance to Starmie's STAB moves and neutrality to its coverage moves, so can pretty much switch in with impunity. Both can also wipe Starmie out with their STAB moves. Magnezone has already been mentioned for use against Ferrothorn, but for Celebi and Shaymin, you may want an alternative. Heatran makes an excellent partner thanks to its ability to come in on Grass-, Dark-, Ghost-, and Bug-type attacks with impunity and has a powerful STAB Fire Blast to obliterate bulky Grass-types with. Both Heatran and Starmie have trouble with bulky Water-types, however. Generally the best way to be rid of these Water-types, primarily Suicune, Kingdra, and Vaporeon, is to hit them with a strong super effective attack. Ferrothorn and the previously mentioned Magnezone work well for this reason.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 3: Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
    move 4: Recover
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is more focused on the supporting nature of Starmie than its offensive nature, through the very rare move, Rapid Spin, which Starmie can make excellent use of. The key to Starmie's effectiveness as a Rapid Spinner is its potent offensive ability, as most people would not switch a Ghost-type into Starmie for fear of a powerful Life Orb boosted attack, meaning that it actually has a pretty good chance of bluffing an offensive set and getting a free Rapid Spin off.</p>

    <p>Once again, a STAB Water-type move is essential to make the most of Starmie's offensive capabilities. Surf is the most reliable option, though Hydro Pump is also worth a look in for the increased offensive power. Scald is another option in case you want some added utility. Recover is also a good idea in order to maintain Starmie's presence on the field, as not only is Starmie likely to be called upon multiple time to keep the ground free of hazards, but it is also a powerful offensive threat, and worth saving if possible. Lastly, a coverage move is imperative so that you pose more of an offensive threat, especially to those Ghost-types who resist Starmie's STAB. Thunderbolt is given as a critical option for this set, since this is the only way you will be able to hit Jellicent, one of the most popular Ghost-types available. Ice Beam is, generally speaking, the secondary option, but if you are genuinely worried about Hydreigon and Celebi, it is always available.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As this Starmie is playing more of a support role, it helps to stick around for longer. While Recover helps with this somewhat, Leftovers is the primary option to improve its recovery rate, although Life Orb is also an option if you want Starmie to have more of an offensive presence. The EVs, again, are self-explanatory sweeper EVs, with 252 EVs in both Special Attack and Speed. If you want to play Starmie more defensively, a bulkier spread can be used in order to give Starmie a greater potential to switch in, lessening the necessity of using Recover. 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe is a reasonably good bulky spread, but this compromises Starmie's offensive power significantly.</p>

    <p>Generally speaking, Starmie can just bulldoze through most Ghost-types, with the possible exceptions of Jellicent and Eviolite Dusclops, but it is still threatened by Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Chandelure, who can be very troublesome if they predict a Rapid Spin and switch in, so you may want to include a Pursuit-user such as Tyranitar in order to deal with them. On the offensive side, Starmie is limited by the fact that it only has room for one coverage move, meaning that it will be left open to either bulky Grass- and Dragon-types, or bulky Water-types. If you choose Thunderbolt, Celebi, Hydreigon, and Shaymin will all be troublesome opponents. To deal with them, something with a strong Ice-type move is recommended, such as Mamoswine or Kyurem. Scizor is also notable in that it can hit all of the aforementioned threats super effectively with its U-turn, but all of them outrun it, making it a shaky check. A strong Fire-type such as Heatran can be used to deal with Grass-types, though it has trouble with the many support moves that Grass-types like to use, and can barely touch most Dragon-types. If going with Ice Beam instead, bulky Water-types become more troublesome. For example, Suicune can set up Calm Mind in your face and obliterate the rest of your team. To deal with them, a specially defensive Grass- or Water-type is recommended. Ferrothorn can hit back with STAB Power Whip, lay down entry hazards, and has excellent defensive synergy with Starmie, while Vaporeon or Jellicent can block Water-type attacks with Water Absorb - Vaporeon is an excellent choice since it can use Hidden Power Electric, Roar, or Toxic, while also passing Starmie extremely bulky Wishes, which greatly helps Starmie's survivability.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Trick / Psyshock
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Specs Starmie is a vicious attacker, and can be an immensely potent special sweeper. The idea of this set is simply to hit hard and fast, trusting to Starmie's superb type coverage and Speed in order to secure vital KOs. Hydro Pump is advised for your STAB option, as the Choice Specs set needs to hit as hard as possible in order to best take advantage of the power available; however, Surf is an agreeable alternative should you want it for reliability. The elemental counterparts of Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are, as always, necessary for coverage, creating the infamous "BoltBeam" combination.</p>

    <p>The last moveslot is reserved for a way to foul up Blissey and other 'counters'. Trick is a very useful way of crippling anything on the opponent's team, and if you can catch Blissey or Ferrothorn with it on the switch, it can be very rewarding indeed, as you will greatly hinder their effectiveness as walls. On the other hand, Psyshock is a useful option that allows you to 2HKO special walls such as Blissey with entry hazard damage; however, this can mean that Starmie is locked into a Psychic-type attack, making it perfect set-up fodder for Scizor and Excadrill.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs remain unchanged, as Starmie really needs Speed and power over anything else. Timid is also generally the most favorable nature for the reasons already stated—Starmie cannot afford to lose out on the Speed front. This is especially important as Starmie will be switching very often already, as is the nature of Choice sets, and so will not want to be forced out if it can help it. However, if you want you can run a Modest nature, as not only does it allow you to hit just about everything harder, wearing down the opponent's team more easily, but it also allows you to 2HKO even the most defensive of Blissey with Psyshock after Stealth Rock, and even sometimes without.</p>

    <p>Entry hazards are an important factor to consider for any Starmie set, but with Choice Specs Starmie this is a very crucial point. This Starmie will be forcing plenty of switches, so it is best to capitalize on this with a nice few layers of entry hazards. Deoxys-S can lay down both Spikes and Stealth Rock, while Ferrothorn can do the same, and has the benefit of considerable defensive synergy with Starmie, as it resists Starmie's Electric-, Grass-, Dark-, and Ghost-type weaknesses, while Starmie resists its Fighting- and Fire-type weaknesses. The same is true in reverse, as Starmie will be switching very often itself, and so Rapid Spin is not such a bad idea.</p>

    <p>Choice Specs Starmie is very good at breaking down plenty of walls, and even those resistant to its STAB moves take heavy damage - 4 HP Hydreigon takes a minimum of 41% from Timid Hydro Pump, meaning that it can be 2HKOed with Stealth Rock if you get a high damage roll. Even those that can take its attacks, such as Blissey, can easily be crippled with a predicted Trick or Psyshock on the switch. Because of this, sweepers that have problems with the Pokemon that Starmie baits, namely Blissey, Grass-types, and Water-types, are all good partners to Starmie. Butterfly Dance Volcarona benefits greatly from the removal of Blissey and bulky Water-types, and can break through Ferrothorn, whom Starmie cannot handle. Such Pokemon as Cloyster and Latios are good partners for similar reasons.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Even though many may think it redundant with Starmie's blistering Speed stat, a Choice Scarf set can actually work very effectively if you are in need of a revenge killer for numerous faster threats, such as Dragon Dance Salamence, Haxorus, and Gyarados. However, even with this much Speed, Starmie will still be unable to outrun Excadrill under a sandstorm, and more to the point, it lacks the power of the Choice Specs set, meaning it will be relatively easy to set up on. Also, Trick can work with the item Ring Target quite effectively, as if you can catch a Ghost on the switch you can remove their Normal-type immunity, hence allowing you to freely Rapid Spin as you please. However, Starmie can generally better accomplish this by smashing the Ghost on the switch with a STAB attack.</p>

    <p>Starmie has a few other special moves worth mentioning. Psychic gives it a stronger secondary STAB, while Grass Knot and Power Gem are worth mentioning for a slightly harder hit on foes such as Quagsire and Yanmega, respectively. Light Screen and Reflect are useful support options, which along with Thunder Wave could make a useful dual screens set, but unfortunately Starmie is outclassed by Deoxys-S and Azelf for the most part outside of Rapid Spin. Lastly, Reflect Type could be a fun little gimmick to annoy Ferrothorn and any Pursuit-trappers, but has no real competitive implications outside of that.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>There are a whole host of specially defensive Normal-types who can make Starmie's spikes fall off in frustration. Chief among these is its old nemesis Blissey, who can take everything outside of Psyshock and Trick, and can cripple with Thunder Wave or Toxic and proceed to stall Starmie out. However, between Natural Cure and Recover, Starmie has a chance to outstall Blissey itself. Blissey's old lackey Snorlax is also at hand, and has access to Pursuit to really make Starmie's life hell. Not only that, but the item Eviolite means that both Porygon2 and Chansey have the ability to take all of Starmie's attacks as well, both have reliable recovery, and unlike the former two, can easily take Psyshock as well. However, Trick really screws both of them over as neither can afford to lose their precious Eviolite. In terms of resistances, the closest thing to a total counter is Lanturn, who has excellent Special Defense and can take all of Starmie's attacks thanks to resistances to Water and Ice, and immunity to Electric-type attacks. Its light weight also means that it takes basically nothing from Grass Knot, and can do some serious damage back with STAB Thunderbolt. However, it must beware of Starmie's STAB Psyshock if it carries it.</p>

    <p>Starmie's next-biggest foes generally boil down to those that resist its STAB and can take a coverage attack. Ferrothorn is one of the biggest threats, as it can take just about everything Starmie throws at it barring Hidden Power Fire or Trick, and has the potential to OHKO with STAB Power Whip, or simply annoy Starmie with Leech Seed and Thunder Wave as it sets up Spikes. Celebi and Shaymin both have similar applications as bulky Grass-types. As far as bulky Water-types go, Lanturn has already been mentioned, but Suicune is also a nasty poser, with the ability to Calm Mind up on Starmie and blow it away with Hidden Power Electric. Jellicent is immune to Starmie's STAB attacks thanks to Water Absorb, has access to reliable recovery, and can also block Rapid Spin, making it a double threat, but Thunderbolt will sting and Psyshock won't be too pleasant either. Kingdra is also a potent threat, and unlike Jellicent cannot be scared away by Thunderbolt due to its neutrality, and can take the opportunity to set up Dragon Dance or begin firing off Draco Meteor. Other Dragon-types are similarly problematic if Starmie lacks Ice Beam.</p>

    <p>Lastly, Starmie suffers greatly from all forms of passive damage, and so can be worn down quite quickly if it doesn't carry Leftovers. It is difficult to revenge kill due to its impressive Speed stat combined with its resistance to essentially every common priority attack; however, its Psychic typing brings with it a weakness to Pursuit, which is especially deadly for the Choice set in particular. Weavile is faster than Starmie and thus can essentially place Starmie in a checkmate position, while the same is true of Choice Scarf Tyranitar. Scizor is another problem Pokemon, who also has the option of U-turning away if you have Magnezone waiting in the wings.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>For some reason, everybody was hoping and praying that Starmie would get Regenerator as its Dream World ability. However, Gamefreak committed yet another flavour faux pas, and gave Starmie an intriguing ability, Analytic, which is not strictly useless, but it is very close to it. In the hands of another Pokemon it could be a mighty weapon; however, for Starmie, it is just a bit wasted. The way it works is that, if Starmie is last to attack, its move is powered up. Of course, thanks to that awesome Speed stat Starmie is almost guaranteed to not move last, and that's not even considering how great Natural Cure is anyway, meaning Starmie barely even needs a new ability anyway. Analytic Staryu is confirmed to be released in the Dream World, though why you would ever want to use it competitively is beyond explanation.</p>

    -----------------------

    Post-critique changes:

    - Made Hydro Pump/Surf main options on Life Orb set
    - Added Hidden Power Fire over Psyshock on Life Orb set
    - Added Choice Scarf to Optional Changes
    - Made Surf/Hydro Pump main options on Offensive Rapid Spin set
    - Changed EVs on Special Rapid Spin set
    - Removed Special Rapid Spin set
    - Grammar check 1, thanks to oxylophyte
    - Grammar check 2, thanks to NatGeo
    - Grammar check 3, thanks to Aeron Ee1
    - Grammar check 4, thanks to Engineer Pikachu
    - English names and new format
    - GP Grammar-Prose check 2, thanks to Dr.Reid
    - Removed Garchomp

    Rejected sets:

    Special Rapid Spin (open)
    [SET]
    name: Special Rapid Spin
    move1: Trick
    move2: Rapid Spin
    move3: Surf
    move4: Recover
    item: Bull's Eye
    nature: Timid
    ability: Natural Cure
    evs: 252 HP / 32 SpA / 224 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Starmie suffers terribly from four moveslot syndrome, this certainly does not mean that it is terribly unpredictable; most Starmie are generally quite similar. With that being said, there are plenty of cool options and strategies that Starmie has tucked away in its deceivingly small movepool, and here is one of those minority strategies that are very useful to certain teams. This set tries a different approach to Rapid Spinning, which makes it much less of an offensive threat than any other set listed here. What is different about this set is that it is almost entirely focused on Rapid Spinning and getting rid of entry hazards, so much so that it compromises ability elsewhere. This means that, while other Starmie rely on surprise to set up entry hazards, here you can abuse the ability time and time again, even if the opponent has a Ghost-type on board.</p>

    <p>Starmie is one of only three Pokemon that learn the combination of Trick + Rapid Spin (the others being Claydol and Smeargle), allowing it to make use of the combination of Trick + Bull's Eye, an item which removes the type immunities of the holder. This means that, when Tricked onto a Ghost, it loses its type immunities, allowing Starmie and possibly other Rapid Spinners to do their thing without any worry, which is a huge relief should you be carrying a severely Rock-weak Pokemon. Your final two moves should hopefully be self-explanatory, as Surf is a reliable STAB move, and Recover is useful as a method of staying alive for longer.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs are slightly different this time around. Speed is still utterly vital, as Starmie is still in terms of base stats the fastest Pokemon around with access to Rapid Spin. Thus, 224 EVs and a Timid nature are invested in order to outrun Timid Borutorosu and the other genies. Also, here 252 HP EVs are advised in order to bulk Starmie up and give it the ability to take hits, as it is just not going to be hitting hard regardless without the strength of its offensive movepool behind it. The remaining EVs can be put into Special Attack to hit just that little bit harder.</p>

    <p>The absolute main goal of this Starmie set is to remove entry hazards in any way possible, which means that if it can't do that, it's in trouble. Generally the best way to use Starmie is not to use Trick off the bat, but rather to wait and see if the opponent has a Ghost-type first. If the opponent has a Pokemon like Burungeru, who cannot threaten Starmie directly, it is usually safe to wait for it to switch in and catch it with your Bull's Eye, which not only helps Starmie but also your offensive partners, as this removes Burungeru's Fighting-type immunity and its Leftovers, making it much less defensively competent. Against an opponent like Choice Scarf Shandera, however, you are better off simply trying to catch it with a Surf. Against such threats as Eviolite Dusclops and Spiritomb, who both threaten Starmie and cannot be disposed of with Surf, you may want to Trick off the bat.</p>

    <p>The Pokemon that can best take advantage of this sort of support are those that have crippling weaknesses to Stealth Rock, so much so that their removal is necessary for them to function. Such Pokemon include Urugamosu and Yanmega, both of whom become immensely more powerful when the floating horror is gone, since they no longer have to worry about losing 50% of their HP every time they switch in. Other, less severely weak Pokemon also benefit, as well as teams that have trouble with Spikes.</p>
  2. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    FIN

    My Team Options were completely deleted the first time I got close to finishing (on every set, not just the section at the bottom), so I kinda lost the heart to finish this.

    Done now though :)
  3. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Surf / Hydro Pump should be the main options on the LO set IMO, since you're trying to sweep with that set and I wouldn't waste time trying to burn things when you can just flat out kill them if possible.
  4. Towelie

    Towelie

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    I think Life Orb should be combined with Offensive Rapid Spin and the set should look like this:

    Starmie@Life Orb
    Timid
    max/max
    Hydro Pump / Surf
    Thunderbolt
    Ice Beam
    Rapid Spin / Recover

    Psycho Shock is really unnecessary imo. Ya you can damage Blissey but if Starmie spins on Blissey (which it does easily) it's done its job and honestly the only other time i can see you using psycho shock is against... the new fighting dude like machamp but with guts and mach punch or machamp. ya that's just my two cents
  5. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    Please include a link under the sprite to a Pokedex entry for Starmie on either Veekun or Serebii.
  6. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Always something

    Done now (probably)
  7. Hegemoth

    Hegemoth

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    I think most of the time it isn't worth it to switch to magnezone to HP Fire Nattorei when it comes in and get paralysed. I would suggest in options to put HP Fire on Starmie itself, having ability to comfortably 2HKO Nattorei with expert belt (they never expect this and Leech Seed you thinking you'll switch). That weakened Pokemon may be crucial when for instance you have a physical Kingdra. The range of pokemon that are hit hard by HP Fire doesn't just come down to Nattorei. Full Health Scizor, Abomasnow with no HP and SpD investments, Forretress etc.
  8. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Yay done

    Will write up another soon, watch this space
  9. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    I would add Boiling Water as it has the ability to burn the foe 30% of the time.
  10. ungulateman

    ungulateman

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    Remove the first-person commentary in the [Dream World] section.

    Looks brilliant otherwise. Good job!
  11. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    I think a mention of a Choice Scarf (Other Options or its own set) would be good. Scarf Starmie revenges quite a few things, such as +1 Salamence, Scarf Flygon, Scarf Garchomp, +1 Gyarados, and can Trick to cripple Blissey. For team options, I would mention either Lucario or Terakion, both for their Justice Heart ability. Scarf Starmie would obviously have to deal with Pursuit from the likes of Tyranitar and Scizor, so Terakion and Lucario force both out and gives them a chance to get to +2.
  12. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Made the recommended changes.
  13. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
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    The Smog Leader

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    Everything looks good to me, though I'm not *entirely* sure about the Special Rapid Spin set -- I'll let other QCers to weigh in on that one.

    QC APPROVED (1/2)
  14. locopoke

    locopoke indulges in unsavory behavior
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    get rid of "offensive rapid spin" and slash it on life orb o_O
  15. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    I'm slightly averse to doing this, mainly due to the rampant slashitis that is prevalent in the last slot of the Life Orb set already, and I don't really want to add to that by sticking Rapid Spin on there as well. Furthermore, while standard Rapid Spin Starmie plays pretty similarly to the LO set, there are significant differences between the two, such that combining the sets would result in a massive information overload. Running only one coverage move, not running Recover, plus all the teammate variations all have to be put in, and one thing I don't want is for that much information to be put in one analysis.

    Having two separate sets is an easy way for people to distinguish between a fully offensive Starmie and a Rapid Spin Starmie. I've already mentioned Rapid Spin in AC on the Life Orb set, which is essentially where it would be anyway, even if I did merge the sets.
  16. panamaxis

    panamaxis Allons-y!
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    Why did we have Hydro Pump as the first slash in the 4th Generation analysis for this same set? On a set that's running 252 Special Attack I think that Hydro Pump should be prioritised over Boiling water (having surf as the primary option though is still fine by me)

    Is there any point in running max speed on the Special rapid spin set? You can't beat other starmie's, which leaves Raikou, (which you definitely lose against) Azelf (but this would only be useful if azelf has been significantly weakened and even then you're risking the speed tie...) and that's about it unless there's some 5th gen pokemon with base 115 speed that I forgot about. I'd consider dropping down to enough speed to outpace Borotorosu (the electric genie if I got that wrong).
  17. PokéMontage

    PokéMontage

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    Chillachino (not really important though)

    How about 240 EVs to outpace max Speed Jalorda?
  18. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Sorry about neglecting this.

    Made the necessary changes. Hydro Pump > Boiling Water on all sets, and I've lowered the number of Speed EVs on the Special Rapid Spin set.

    Anything else?
  19. Pokenonymous

    Pokenonymous

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    No, I think that Psycho shock should be slashed on the 4th slot for life orb. Yes, It only 2HKOs blissey, but also can 1HKO many tentacruel. I have also had many Gengars come in thinking that they are spinblocking easily taken out this way.
    Mainly, its just STAB. The thing is, it's preference. For me, I rarely rapid spin and find ways to work arround entry hazards. But also, Stealth Rock (and other hazards) aren't as common in gen 5. I also don't find Starmie Bulky enough to use Recover. Especialy in the Evolving Metagame that is gaining more and more powerful attackers.
    I just feel like PS is useful enough to be listed once the final movesets are posted.
  20. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Psycho Shock BARELY 2HKOs Blissey. I don't think it 2HKOs Chansey. It really isn't worth it. Tentacruel is hardly a force in the metagame and LO Surf OHKOs Gengar doesn't it?

    Remove the reference to Stealth Rock being less common, bob? It really isn't.
  21. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
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    LO Surf does 87 percent max. to Gengar, so ironically, you need SR support to OHKO Gengar.

    I would suggest you keep the reference to SR being less common. Even though it is not as prevalent as before due to the loss of SR as a TM, Starmie has just as mcuh work to do, with just about every Nattorei carrying Spikes.

    Solid analysis otherwise, bob. Keep up the good work.
  22. GameMaster0000

    GameMaster0000

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    I just calculated. Psyshock LO timid do 35.9-42.4% on 252/252 bold Blissey ,even spec still do 41.6-48.6%

    But psyshock I think it is still optional. Because it is STAB and can use it for pseudo mix sweeper, but it will fail to OHKO Roopushin.
  23. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    A Bull's Eye set is pretty silly when Starmie can ravage basically every single Ghost-type available with Hydro Pump, and Burungeru gets tooled by Thunderbolt. It becomes completely useless if your Trick doesn't hit its mark, and Starmie is better off just murdering their Ghost-type and spinning later than it is trying some gimmicky Bull's Eye stuff.
  24. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    RE: Psycho Shock, I already removed it because while it can be a useful move, it is essentially a worse option than what is listed on the set. Hidden Power Fire is situational but does accomplish a very specific task, which is actually very very helpful to allowing Starmie to function more effectively. I really don't think Psycho Shock is worth the slash, especially since it doesn't really break Blissey anyway (although it does do a lot of damage, Blissey is not really broken by it, and neither is Blissey itself really that important a target unless you have trouble dealing with it with the rest of your team.

    I also removed the SR. line because it isn't really relevant either way. If you want to get rid of hazards, it doesn't really matter how relatively common they are. They are still a notable tactic and that's significant enough.

    Fair enough. Removed the Special Rapid Spin set.
  25. Roger Fox

    Roger Fox

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    Rapid Spin on the life orb set. Any ghosts trying to block spin get kod pretty easily and then you can spin away.

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