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Starmie (BW2 Update)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by alexwolf, Apr 13, 2013.

  1. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Starmie

    [Overview]

    <p>Starmie is the best offensive spinner in OU and a staple on many offensive teams. Starmie's great Speed, decent power, and broad coverage make it a great revenge killer that is difficult for all but dedicated special walls to switch into; this difficulty is only magnified under the common field condition of rain. Thanks to these traits, Starmie can get past every OU spinblocker. Aside from functioning as an offensive spinner, Starmie can perform defensive duties, as it has access to the combination of Recover and Natural Cure, something that no other spinner has, giving it great durability and many chances to clear the field of entry hazards.</p>

    <p>Even though Starmie's typing gives it good STABs, it also gives it an unfortunate weakness to Pursuit, which Tyranitar and Scizor, both ubiquitous Pokemon, can capitalize on. Another problem for Starmie is that, even though it is not easy to wall, Pokemon that wall it are very popular. Ferrothorn and specially defensive Celebi are both omnipresent Pokemon that can shut down Starmie while carrying Stealth Rock themselves (and Spikes in Ferrothorn's case), preventing Starmie from using Rapid Spin as long as they are on the field. Finally, Starmie is frail, even for an offensive Pokemon, meaning that it fails to find as many switch-in opportunities as it would want in a metagame where rain-boosted Water-type attacks are everywhere.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Rapid Spin
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Thunderbolt / Psyshock
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Rapid Spin
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a combination of Speed, power, and coverage, Starmie has everything it needs to become a threatening offensive presence as well as 2HKO every spinblocker in OU. Hydro Pump hits most Pokemon that don't resist it hard and has excellent neutral coverage. It can also be boosted by rain, pumping Starmie's power to ridiculous levels and allowing it to 2HKO even most offensive Pokemon that resist it, including Latios and Keldeo, two of the bulkiest offensive Pokemon in OU. If accuracy is preferred over power, Surf is the next choice, but the power difference is very big and causes Starmie to miss out on many OHKOs and 2HKOs. Thunderbolt gives Starmie coverage on Water-types and is especially important as it 2HKOes physically defensive Jellicent, ensuring that Starmie can later use Rapid Spin. On the other hand, Psyshock gets STAB, hits some Pokemon that resist Water-type moves, such as Tentacruel, Breloom, and Keldeo, for super effective damage and allows Starmie to 2HKO specially defensive variants of Jellicent and Rotom-W most of the time, Kyurem-B, and Blissey, all after Stealth Rock damage. Ice Beam covers the Grass- and Dragon-types that resist Starmie's main STAB, 2HKOing most of them with a few exceptions, namely specially defensive Celebi, Ferrothorn, Kyurem, and Kyurem-B. Rapid Spin is Starmie's most important feature, as it clears its side of field of entry hazards, helping Starmie's teammates switch in more easily, especially those that are weak to Stealth Rock.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb versus Leftovers is a choice between power and survivability. Life Orb makes Starmie a heavy hitter that is very difficult to switch into and devastating when paired with rain, but sacrifices the longevity given to it by Leftovers, a necessary item for Starmie on sand teams to keep residual damage from getting out of hand.</p>

    <p>If using Life Orb, Analytic is an excellent option over Natural Cure, taking advantage of the switches that Starmie forces to hit switch-ins very hard. With Stealth Rock and rain support, Analytic gives Starmie the ability to 2HKO many of its common switch-ins without even the need for prediction. In particular, Hydro Pump on a switch to specially defensive Rotom-W, specially defensive Celebi, and 252 HP Latias, followed by the appropriate coverage move, makes short work of these would-be checks or counters (one layer of Spikes is needed to get the 2HKO on Celebi). Recover is an option over Ice Beam to allow Starmie to last longer in the match and switch into bulky Water-types easier. However, Starmie usually needs all of its coverage moves, so fitting Recover in can be hard. If using Starmie on a rain team, Thunder is a great move for the second slot, as it allows Starmie to always 2HKO all Jellicent variants as long as it holds Life Orb, something no other move can achieve (Analytic-boosted Life Orb Thunder always OHKOes physically defensive Jellicent after Stealth Rock damage). If Starmie's team has problems with Ferrothorn, Hidden Power Fire can OHKO it in sunny weather with the help of Life Orb. However, it has little use outside of hitting Ferrothorn, as Hydro Pump handles most Steel-types anyway, and Starmie likes to be in rain, where Hidden Power Fire is neutered. Hidden Power Grass and Grass Knot can be used in the second slot, still covering Water-types while also hitting Gastrodon and Rotom-W hard, though the latter only with Hidden Power. Grass Knot 2HKOes Gastrodon and Jellicent, while Hidden Power Grass 2HKOes Rotom-W and Gastrodon. Expert Belt can replace either of the two two main items to take advantage of Starmie's great super effective coverage, but Starmie will miss the extra power on neutral hits that Life Orb provides and the survivability Leftovers offers.</p>

    <p>Starmie enjoys partners that can beat Ferrothorn, Gastrodon, Chansey, and Blissey, the only Pokemon that hard wall Starmie. Breloom is the best Pokemon for this role, easily beating all of those Pokemon one-on-one. Terrakion and Lucario are good choices as well, though they can't set up on Gastrodon like Breloom can. Scizor can either threaten those Pokemon immediately with a Choice Band set or threaten for a sweep with a Swords Dance set, while also dealing with Celebi, a big obstacle to Starmie. Politoed is a good teammate as rain boosts the power of Hydro Pump and allows Starmie to use Thunder, making Starmie even more difficult to wall. Kyurem-B and Kyurem are also problematic for Starmie, especially variants with Substitute and Roost, so Scizor, Jirachi, and Ferrothorn are good partners to help against them. Jirachi and Ferrothorn can also set up entry hazards, which Starmie appreciates to get many OHKOs and 2HKOs, such as the guaranteed 2HKO on 252 HP Latias with Ice Beam and the almost guaranteed 2HKO on 56 HP Kyurem-B with Psyshock. Outside of rain, Heatran is another Pokemon that works very well with Starmie, having good defensive synergy with it, setting up Stealth Rock, and dealing with some of Starmie's worries, such as Celebi, Ferrothorn, and Kyurem-B that lack Earth Power. Finally, Keldeo forms a potent offensive combo with Starmie, especially on rain teams, where one of them weakens the opponent's Water-type checks and counters and the other one sweeps later in the match.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Psyshock / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
    move 4: Recover
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid
    evs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 4 SpA / 224 Spe
    ivs: 0 Atk

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes advantage of Starmie's best defensive traits, Natural Cure and Recover, to turn Starmie into a reliable spinner that can last for the whole game. Rapid Spin clears the field from entry hazards, letting Starmie act as a great team player. Scald is Starmie's primary STAB, having decent power and a neat burn chance, which gives Starmie the potential to neuter some of its common switch-ins such as Ferrothorn and Kyurem-B. Psyshock is a very useful move on Starmie, allowing it to OHKO the most common spinblocker, Gengar, deal a minimum of 80% damage to Breloom, and 2HKO Keldeo (regardless of Calm Mind boosts) and Terrakion in sand, all Pokemon that Starmie outspeeds. If Dragon-types are big threats to Starmie's team, Ice Beam should be used over Psyshock, as it OHKOes Dragonite and Salamence (the former after Stealth Rock), 2HKOes Latios and Hydreigon after Stealth Rock, and deals meaningful damage to most Grass-types. Thunderbolt deals good damage to most Water-types, which Starmie can easily switch into, and lets Starmie OHKO Gyarados after Stealth Rock, allowing Starmie to act as a great check to it. Recover is one of the main advantages Starmie has over other defensive spinners, giving it great longevity and combined with Natural Cure allowing it to switch into a multitude of defensive Pokemon and find many opportunities to use Rapid Spin.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread maxes out Starmie's HP, giving it enough bulk to stick around for an extended period of time. 32 Defense EVs are used to avoid the OHKO from Choice Band Terrakion's Stone Edge and Ferrothorn's Power Whip, meaning that after Ferrothorn is burned not even a critical hit can OHKO Starmie, enabling Starmie to outstall Ferrothorn with ease. The Speed investment allows Starmie to outspeed Timid Gengar and Tornadus, while 4 EVs go to Special Attack in order to always OHKO 4 HP Gengar with Psyshock. Outspeeding and OHKOing Gengar is crucial to make sure it can't spinblock Starmie effectively. Lastly, 0 Atk IVs minimizes confusion and Foul Play damage, which is useful as Sableye might want to spinblock Starmie.</p>

    <p>Starmie is one of the few Pokemon that learn Reflect Type, and it can put it to good use. By replacing its coverage move with Reflect Type, Starmie can deal with some of its most common troubles, namely Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, and Rotom-W, as all of those Pokemon fail to do any significant damage to Starmie after it uses Reflect Type, allowing Starmie to beat all of them one-on-one. Psychic can be used over Psyshock to hit Conkeldurr and Breloom harder; however, Psyshock hits the most important targets, such as Keldeo after it has used Calm Mind and Terrakion under sand, harder. Thunder is a viable coverage move on rain teams, allowing Starmie to deal meaningful damage to Jellicent and even have a 25.78% chance to 2HKO physically defensive variants after Stealth Rock. Starmie can also use 124 EVs in Special Attack to always 2HKO physically defensive Jellicent after Stealth Rock with Thunder, although the loss of bulk is annoying. Starmie can drop Recover to run Ice Beam, giving it great all-around coverage and allowing it to act as a decent revenge killer. However, this means that Starmie will not stick around for long, losing most of its utility as a defensive spinner and leaving it as an option mostly for offensive teams. Toxic can be used over one of Starmie's coverage moves, allowing it to simultaneously beat Jellicent and Sableye and cripple Kyurem and Latias, but those are its only significant uses.</p>

    <p>Starmie appreciates strong Fighting-type teammates, as they can break through its biggest enemies, namely Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Rotom-W. Terrakion and Breloom can beat all of those Pokemon or set up on them in the case of a Pursuit-locked Tyranitar. Partners that can beat Jellicent are very helpful as well, as this Starmie variant is unable to get past it. Celebi completely shuts Jellicent down, while Choice Band Tyranitar with significant Speed investment can OHKO Jellicent with either Crunch or Pursuit, depending on whether Jellicent stays in or switches out. Celebi and most Dragon-types can easily switch into Starmie so teammates to handle them are needed. Heatran checks all of those Pokemon; Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Scizor do the same to a lesser degree. Ferrothorn also does well against Jolteon, which can outspeed and KO Starmie, and has excellent defensive synergy with Starmie, making for an exceptional teammate.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Psyshock / Thunderbolt
    move 3: Trick
    move 4: Rapid Spin / Ice Beam
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a Choice Specs equipped, and possibly rain support, Starmie is able to 2HKO most of OU with just Hydro Pump, minimizing the need for prediction against all but a few targets. Surf still hits very hard while being much more reliable, but the power drop is quite noticeable. Psyshock deals with some of the Pokemon that can avoid the 2HKO from Starmie's Water-type attacks, such as Blissey and specially defensive variants of Jellicent and Rotom-W, while also OHKOing many important Pokemon, including Keldeo, Breloom, and Tentacruel (the last after Stealth Rock). On the other hand, Thunderbolt has the advantage of 2HKOing all Jellicent variants with the help of Stealth Rock and OHKOing Gyarados, but has less utility in general than Psyshock. Trick makes Starmie even harder to switch into, crippling any defensive answer to it, including the omnipresent Ferrothorn and Celebi, and is one of the main distinguishing features of Starmie over the other common Water-type Choice Specs wielder, Keldeo. Furthermore, by getting rid of Choice Specs with Trick, Starmie gains the advantage of being able to switch moves and is able to use Rapid Spin without becoming utter setup bait. Rapid Spin works well with Trick, as after Starmie cripples one of its counters with it, it can work as a spinner too, allowing Starmie to effectively fill three main roles for its team: hard hitter, lure, and spinner. However, if Rapid Spin support is not important for Starmie's team, then Ice Beam is the next best option to deal with the Grass- and Dragon-types that check Starmie, such as Celebi and Latias.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Very few Pokemon can avoid the 2HKO from Starmie's Hydro Pump in rain, making Politoed a very good teammate. The presence of rain also allows Starmie to use Thunder, which hits just as hard as a STAB Psyshock and has a nifty 30% paralysis chance, which can screw over some of Starmie's common switch-ins, such as Latios, Latias, and Kyurem-B. Analytic is a great option over Natural Cure, especially in rain, where Analytic-boosted Hydro Pump and Thunder become lethal; to give you an example, with the Analytic boost, Thunder always OHKOes physically defensive Jellicent and rain-boosted Hydro Pump deals 51.7% - 60.79% to standard Ferrothorn. While this set doesn't have any real counters due to the extreme power that rain and Choice Specs-boosted Water-type attacks provide, and Trick's ability to cripple would-be defensive counters, bulky Grass- and Dragon-types are still problematic to Starmie. Terrakion, Weavile, Breloom, and Scizor are all great offensive partners for Starmie, as they can take advantage of Starmie's common switch-ins, such as Celebi, Ferrothorn, and Latias, and even trap most of them in Weavile's and Scizor's case. On the defensive side, Celebi and Ferrothorn can both handle the Electric- and Grass-type attacks that threaten Starmie while also setting up entry hazards to help Starmie get certain OHKOs and 2HKOs, such as the the nearly guaranteed 2HKO (98.83% chance) on specially defensive Jellicent with Thunderbolt and the guaranteed 2HKO on Blissey with Psyshock, both after Stealth Rock damage. Finally, any offensive Pokemon with similar counters to Starmie makes for a good partner, as this Starmie is a fine lure due to its unexpectedly strong attacks and Trick, which cripple many of its common check and counters, especially those that lack reliable recovery, such as Ferrothorn and specially defensive Rotom-W. Choice Scarf Keldeo, Dragon Dance Gyarados, and Swords Dance Feraligatr are all Pokemon that can sweep easily after Starmie successfully weakens the opposing team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Trick
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Starmie doesn't have the highest Special Attack around, its great Speed and wide coverage allow it to become a decent revenge killer that can outspeed the whole metagame when holding a Choice Scarf. Hydro Pump is Starmie's main STAB, OHKOing Pokemon such as Terrakion and Landorus while also allowing Starmie to sometimes clean up late-game if rain is present. Surf is more reliable but misses the guaranteed OHKO on Terrakion and makes it much harder for Starmie to clean up. Ice Beam takes care of the plethora of boosting sweepers weak to it, such as Salamence, Dragonite, and Garchomp, while also hitting Grass-types super effectively. Thunderbolt deals with Gyarados and Keldeo to an extent, while hitting most other Water-types for solid damage. Trick rounds out the set and makes sure that Starmie isn't easy to switch into, especially by defensive teams.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Psyshock can be used over Thunderbolt to take advantage of the fact that Starmie outspeeds Choice Scarf Keldeo, as Psyshock can OHKO it after a bit of residual damage, unlike Thunderbolt, which barely deals over half to Keldeo and struggles to do any real damage to it if it has aquired any Calm Mind boosts. Psyshock also hits Venusaur harder than anything else Starmie can use, usually OHKOing it after Life Orb or Stealth Rock damage. Given that Choice Scarf Starmie outspeeds standard Venusaur under sun, it can be very helpful in a tight situation. Thunder can replace Thunderbolt if Starmie is being used on a rain team, as the extra power and improved paralysis chance are always appreciated. Rapid Spin can also be used over Thunderbolt for teams that can already deal with Water-types and have only one slot to dedicate for both a spinner and a revenge killer.</p>

    <p>Starmie needs to have Ferrothorn, Celebi, Latias, and sturdy Water-type resists taken care of in order to work effectively. The classic Starmie partners work well, which means that Scizor, Terrakion, and Breloom are all great choices. Politoed is also a very beneficial teammate to power up Starmie's main STAB and give it some sweeping potential after Water-type resists have been weakened or eliminated.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Starmie can use a dual screens set, but it faces major competition from Azelf, which has Stealth Rock and Taunt over Starmie, making it a more successful Pokemon in that role overall. However, Starmie does have some advantages over Azelf, and those are Water-type STAB, Recover, Natural Cure, and Rapid Spin, so make sure to take advantage of them. Hidden Power Fire can be used on any set if Starmie is being used on a sun team, mainly to hit Ferrothorn and Scizor, two Pokemon that can hit Starmie hard and Starmie can't properly damage otherwise under sun, and even outside of it in Ferrothorn's case. Hidden Power Grass and Grass Knot are options for teams that struggle with Gastrodon and Rotom-W while still hitting most Water-types, such as Jellicent and Politoed. However, Starmie loses coverage on Flying-types and Tentacruel, leaving it easier to wall in general. Signal Beam can be used on any offensive set to 2HKO Celebi, one of Starmie's hardest enemies to remove. When used on a hail team, Starmie can opt to use Blizzard over Ice Beam, increasing its damage output. Thunder Wave allows Starmie to support its team and cripple some of its usual switch-ins, including Latias, Kyurem, and Kyurem-B. Starmie can also support its team by changing the weather to more favorable or less threatening conditions with Rain Dance or Hail. This strategy is usually only effective if the opponent's weather starter is down, though. Rain Dance powers up Starmie's Water-type STAB moves but is redundant against rain teams, while Hail is only usable to cancel out the opponent's weather but is effective against all of the most popular weathers.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chansey and specially defensive Celebi are the best counters to Starmie, as they are able to handle every single one of Starmie's sets with no worries, except for the rare Trick and the even rarer offensive sets with Analytic. Ferrothorn completely walls Starmie, can punish the use of Rapid Spin with Iron Barbs, and can OHKO back with Power Whip while only fearing a Scald burn from defensive variants, which admittedly troubles Ferrothorn a lot. Blissey can take on most Starmie variants easily, fearing only Psyshock from Life Orb and Choice Specs variants and Trick. Calm Mind Latias can switch into anything Starmie has, except for Life Orb-boosted Ice Beam, and start setting up on it, making it an excellent check to Starmie. Defensive variants of Kyurem-B wall most offensive sets of Starmie and can set up on them, but can't switch into defensive Starmie so well, in fear of a Scald burn, which would neuter Kyurem-B. Kyurem makes for a very good switch-in to defensive Starmie, as unlike Kyurem-B it doesn't mind getting burned, and can set up a Substitute to comfortably start attacking. All offensive versions of Kyurem and Kyurem-B can also check offensive Starmie with Leftovers pretty well, avoiding the 2HKO from all of its moves even with Stealth Rock up. All Jellicent variants are also very good checks to Starmie, walling Starmie's defensive set and preventing Rapid Spin from working. Furthermore, physically defensive Jellicent walls offensive Starmie sets with Psyshock while specially defensive Jellicent walls offensive Starmie sets with Thunderbolt (Thunder 2HKOes both variants easily though). Rotom-W, especially the specially defensive set, is an excellent switch-in to Starmie, resisting Hydro Pump and not fearing any of its coverage moves aside from Life Orb or Choice Specs-boosted Psyshock and Thunder. Amoonguss is a good check to Starmie that lack Psyshock, as it is able to switch into anything but Ice Beam and 2HKO Starmie with Giga Drain. Any Starmie set that lacks Ice Beam can be taken advantage of by the various Dragon-types that reside in OU, such as Dragonite and Latios.</p>

    <p>Pursuit users have the potential to eliminate Starmie under certain circumstances. Tyranitar can trap and KO Starmie with Pursuit, provided it switches in as Starmie uses Rapid Spin or comes in for free in some other way and avoids getting burned from Scald. Scizor can do the same with Pursuit as long as it too gets in for free but fails to trap Life Orb and Choice Specs Starmie in rain, as those sets can OHKO with Hydro Pump. Weavile is the only Pursuit user that has the advantage of outspeeding Starmie, but like other Pursuit users, it struggles to switch into Starmie, as Hydro Pump from offensive variants threatens to OHKO and Scald from defensive sets can neuter Weavile with a burn. Finally, most faster Pokemon can revenge kill Starmie. For example, Jolteon, Alakazam, Choice Scarf Latios, Choice Scarf Terrakion, and Choice Scarf Landorus can all dent or OHKO Starmie, but most of them can't switch in safely.</p>
  2. Bossness

    Bossness

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    Under Checks and Counters:
    "Kyurem-B resists Water and Electric and takes neutral damage from Ice Beam, and can OHKO Starmie with Outrage / Fusion Bolt."

    Why isn't Kyurem mentioned as well? It can do the same thing and OHKO Starmie with Draco Meteor.
  3. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    We need to resolve the question of what to do regarding Analytic. Alexwolf has been asking people on IRC about it, but it doesn't seem right that it has not been mentioned here at all.

    Having tested it, I have to say I really liked it, and that it is definitely better than the typical OO material. Personally, I think it is slash-worthy on the Choice Specs set for sure. That set is all about power, and that's exactly what analytic provides. Excluding paralysis, the set doesn't mind status too much either, not as much as Life Orb anyway. For the Life Orb set, I think Analytic is less good, but probably still slash-worthy. Honestly, it's rare that Natural Cure saves you from a more than a couple of turns of burn or toxic damage anyway (unless you're using recover, in which case natural cure is obviously the way to go), and you don't want to deliberately switch into Thunder Wave for the most part regardless. In fact, I don't really like switching offensive starmie into anything, even Scald.

    So what does the extra power on the switch offer you, exactly? Most notably, the Life Orb set can 2HKO SpD Celebi with Ice Beam now (guaranteed with SR). It can do over 50% to Ferrothorn with Hydro Pump on the switch. Psyhock will now 2HKO Blissey where it couldn't before. Hydro Pump will 2HKO offensive Kyurem(-B). Specially defensive Rotom-W will take over 50% on the switch from Hydro Pump, and is comfortably 2HKOed by Psyshock. Gastrodon is now always 2HKOed by Psyshock. You can now 2HKO specially defensive Jellicent easily with Psyshock and OHKO physically defensive jellicent after SR with Thunder!

    I've been listing the 2HKOs. It makes a much bigger difference to the OHKOs!

    So basically, it kills all of starmie's counters except chansey...
  4. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    We discussed this on irc.

    Since we can (currently) only have one single ability in an analysis, we only mention Natural Cure and AC Analytic. Lavos, bri, SDS, myself and PKGaming all agreed with this (so a substantial number of QC) so you would have to work hard to convince us that Analytic gets the primary mention.
  5. Knight of Cydonia

    Knight of Cydonia dance commander
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    Something that I used a few times with Analytic was Signal Beam (the rest of my team included Thundurus-T and really hated Celebi)
    252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Celebi: 343-406 (84.9 - 100.49%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock on the switch in.
    May not seem worth it when Ice Beam can 2HKO but it's unlikely that Celebi stays in for a second Ice Beam when it is so valuable against rain. OHKOing it just feels great when you don't have a pursuit trapper. Given the abundance of Celebi at the moment and that Analytic is being discussed it may be worth a mention.
  6. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Kyurem will be mentioned in c&c, Analytic will go in the AC of Specs and LO, and Signal Beam will maybe get a mention in the AC of LO. Thx for the comments everyone!
  7. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    So what happened to this idea of putting 12 SpA EV's on Bulky Rapid Spin to always KO Gengar?
  8. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    4 SpA Starmie Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 264-312 (100.76 - 119.08%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    So i will add 4 SpA EVs to the defensive set to always OHKO Gengar.
  9. BKC

    BKC
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    bri & i agreed in the last thread that rapid spin should be used on the specs set.

    choice scarf is horrible, please get rid of it.

    looks fine otherwise.
  10. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    Okay. You know some sets in the analysis go 4 Def instead of 4 HP, right?

    4 SpA Starmie Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 260-308 (99.61 - 118%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO

    8 SpA is the same as above. Meanwhile:

    12 SpA Starmie Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 264-312 (101.14 - 119.54%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    I'm using this calculator, just for reference.
  11. Oglemi

    Oglemi We broke it. Yes, we were naughty. Completely naughty.
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    just a heads up, Rapid Spinner is not a word, use either just spinner or Rapid Spin user (preferably the former)

    The set name should be Offensive Rapid Spin
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Ok BKC added Rapid Spin on the set, but i won't remove the Scarf set yet, as i want more input.

    Fixed the name of the first set, thx Oglemi.
  13. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    So you're still only putting 4 SpA on Bulky Rapid Spin? Even though that means Gengar can still occasionally survive?

    EDIT: @alexwolf below: well I guess that's... convenient. Never mind then!
  14. Psylink

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    Starmie rarely gets the advantage of using Analytic due to it's high 115 base speed. Aside from Trick Room, but that's when you're going to want to use something slower
  15. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    All Gengar sets will be fixed in order to have 4 HP EVs, which means that 4 SpA EVs will be enough.

    Analytic works on switches.
  16. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Phewwwww, finally written.
  17. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    i agree...are there any other opinions on this
  18. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Okay, a couple of things:
    - Put Signal Beam in OO - Taking out Celebi is apparently a pretty massive thing these days. If people run HP Bug on Keldeo, then I'm pretty sure Starmie can fit Signal Beam on if you REALLY wanted it.

    Another thing that I want more QC (and everyone else's) input is the EV spread of the defensive set. I know that this may have been discussed before, but I couldn't find any in the archives, so I'd like to discuss this now. What do the additional defense EVs do on the defensive set? What 2HKOes or OHKOes do they help Starmie avert? I'm aware that 224 Speed EVs let you outspeed Tornadus, but why can't we simply run max Speed? Unless there are specific things that Starmie gets with the Defense EVs, I can't really see why we shouldn't just run max Speed. I know Azelf is relatively rare, but at least that is one objective thing that could matter. You may be able to speed tie the thing and spin away SR before it explodes. You may be able to speed tie with other Starmies and pull off a spin before you get killed, or stuff like that. There are also people that run Scarf Magnezone. If there was say, a 1v1 situation for a 30% Scarf Magnezone vs your defensive Starmie, you'd lose if you didn't run max Speed. If there are specific KOes that Starmie escape with the defense EVs, I'd be very happy to keep them, but if there aren't I see no reason why we can't run max Speed.
  19. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

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    I completly agree with this its okay not to run max Spe when the Pokemon itself isn't a common threat so speed tieing isn't much of an issue, but Starmie is a pretty common threat and speed tieing seems to be a lot more useful than some Def EVs that don't seem to help it much.
  20. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    All the speed ev's do is let you speed tie with raikou, azelf, and starmie. The first two are nonexistent in the metagame while the latter you can't even touch since tbolt is the third slash.. the defensive ev's let you tank a banded terrakion stone edge as well. So no shrang, the evs do not need to be changed
  21. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    - 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Starmie: 270-318 (83.33 - 98.14%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    - 0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Starmie: 270-320 (83.33 - 98.76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Not being 2HKOed by Ferro means that you can beat it 1 on 1 after you burn it with Scald without fearing possible crits, and that SR will never stay up.

    Pretty small uses, but definitely more important than those that max Speed brings.

    Also, thx shrang adding Signal Beam to OO.

    Finally, Lavos iirc we had a consensus in irc that Scarf is good enough for a set, but it was a really borderline case.
  22. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    That's what I wanted to see. That's fine then, keep the Defense EVs. Just make sure you mention those calculations in the actual analysis.

    [qc]3/3[/qc]
    provided you put those calculations in
  23. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Done, thx shrang!
  24. GCSChris

    GCSChris

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    Nice job. I made an amateur GP check.

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    [Overview]

    <p>Starmie holds the title of the best offensive spinner in OU, making it a staple on many offensive teams. Starmie's great Speed, decent power, and broad coverage make it a great revenge killer and difficult to switch into without dedicated special walls, and also allow it to get past any spinblocker in OU. Furthermore, Starmie's main STAB moves get a power boost from rain, a very common battle condition in BW2, making it even harder to switch into. Aside from an offensive spinner, Starmie can perform defensive duties as well, as it has the neat combo of Recover and Natural Cure, something that no other spinner has, giving it great durability and many chances to clear the field of entry hazards.</p>

    <p>Even though Starmie's typing gives it good STABs, it also gives it an unfortunate weakness to Pursuit, which Tyranitar and Scizor can capitalize on if they have the necessary health to do so or carry a Choice Scarf. Another problem for Starmie is that, even though it is not easy to wall, some Pokemon that wall it are very popular. Ferrothorn and specially defensive Celebi are both omnipresent Pokemon and both shut down Starmie while also carrying Stealth Rock themselves (and Spikes in Ferrothorn's case), preventing Starmie from using Rapid Spin as long as they are on the field. Finally, Starmie is pretty frail, even for an offensive Pokemon, meaning that it fails to find as many switch-in opportunities as it would want, in a metagame where rain-boosted Water attacks are everywhere.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Rapid Spin
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Thunderbolt / Psyshock
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Rapid Spin
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a combination of Speed, power, and coverage, Starmie has everything it needs to become a threatening offensive presence as well as 2HKO any spinblocker in OU. Hydro Pump hits most Pokemon that don't resist it hard and has excellent neutral coverage. It can also be boosted by rain, pumping Starmie's power to ridiculous levels and allowing it to 2HKO most offensive Pokemon that resist it, including Latios and Keldeo, two of the most bulky bulkiest offensive Pokemon of OU. If accuracy is preferred over power, Surf is the next choice, but the difference in power difference is very big and 'causes Starmie to lose miss out on many OHKOs and 2HKOs. Thunderbolt gives Starmie coverage against Water-types and is especially important as it 2HKOes physically defensive Jellicent, ensuring that Starmie can later use Rapid Spin. On the other hand, Psyshock gets STAB, hits for super effective damage some Pokemon that resist Water moves, such as Tentacruel, Breloom, and Keldeo, and allows Starmie to 2HKO most of the time specially defensive Jellicent most of the time, and Rotom-W, Kyurem-B, and Blissey, all after Stealth Rock. Ice Beam covers the Grass- and Dragon-types that resist Starmie's main STAB, 2HKOing most of them with a few exceptions, namely specially defensive Celebi, Ferrothorn, Kyurem, and Kyurem-B. Rapid Spin clears the field from entry hazards, and turns Starmie into the best offensive spinner in the game, helping Starmie's teammates come switch in more easily easier, especially those that are weak to Stealth Rock, .Thisand is Starmie's most important feature.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb versus Leftovers is a choice between power and survivability; with Life Orb, Starmie is incredibly difficult to switch into as it hits extremely hard, while with Leftovers, Starmie can last for much longer. Also, Life Orb works very well if Starmie is being used on a rain team, as the rain boost combined with Life Orb make Hydro Pump really hard to switch into, even 2HKOing most offensive Pokemon that resist it, such as Latios and Keldeo. On the other hand, Leftovers is the best option if Starmie is being used on a sand team, as Life Orb in addition to sand damage would be too much residual damage for Starmie to handle.</p>

    <p>If using Life Orb, Analytic is an excellent option over Natural Cure, taking advantage of the switches that Starmie forces to hit the switch-in very hard. With Life Orb and rain support, Analytic-boosted Hydro Pump is strong enough to 2HKO a lot of common switch-ins to offensive Starmie when combined with the approipriate coverage move and Stealth Rock. For example, specially defensive variants of Rotom-W and Celebi, as well as 252 HP Latias, are 2HKOed by Hydro Pump and Psyshock or Ice Beam, respectively. Recover is an option over Ice Beam to ensure Starmie can last longer in the match and switch into bulky Water-types easier. However, Starmie usually needs all of its coverage moves, so fitting in Recover into this set can be hard. If using Starmie on a rain team, Thunder is a great move for the second slot, and allows Starmie to always 2HKO any Jellicent variant as long as it holds Life Orb, something no other move can achieve (Analytic-boosted Life Orb Thunder always OHKOes physically defensive Jellicent after Stealth Rock). Hidden Power Fire is another option that can be used and is especially useful if Starmie is being used on a sun team, where it can OHKO one of Starmie's biggest counters with the help of Life Orb, Ferrothorn. However, it has little use outside of hitting Ferrothorn, as Hydro Pump handles most Steel-types anyway, and Starmie likes to be in rain, where Hidden Power Fire is neutered. Hidden Power Grass and Grass Knot can be used on the second slot, still covering Water-types, while also hitting hard Gastrodon, and Rotom-W hard in Hidden Power Grass's case. Grass Knot 2HKOes Gastrodon and Jellicent, while Hidden Power Grass 2HKOes Rotom-W and Gastrodon. What does it do to Jellicent? Expert Belt can replace the two main items, to take advantage of Starmie's great super effective coverage, but Starmie will miss the extra power on neutral hits that Life Orb provides or the survivability Leftovers offers.</p>

    <p>Starmie enjoys having partners that can beat Ferrothorn, Gastrodon, Chansey, and Blissey, the only Pokemon that hard wall Starmie. Breloom is the best Pokemon for this role, easily beating any of those Pokemon one on one. Terrakion and Lucario are good choices as well, but they can't set up on Gastrodon's face like Breloom can. Scizor can either threaten those Pokemon immediately with a Choice Band set, or threaten for a sweep with a Swords Dance set, while also dealing with Celebi, a hard check to Starmie. Politoed is a good teammate as it boosts the power of Hydro Pump and allows Starmie to use Thunder, making Starmie even more difficult to wall. Kyurem-B and Kyurem are also problematic for Starmie, especially variants with Substitute and Roost, so Scizor, Jirachi, and Ferrothorn help against them. Jirachi and Ferrothorn can also setup entry hazards, which Starmie appreciates to get many OHKOs and 2HKOs. Outside of rain, Heatran is another Pokemon that works very well with Starmie, having good defensive synergy, setting up Stealth Rock, and dealing with some of Starmie's worries, such as Celebi, Ferrothorn, and Kyurem-B that lack Earth Power. Finally, Keldeo forms a potent offensive combo with Starmie, especially on rain teams, where one of them weakens the opponent's Water-type checks and counters and the other one sweeps.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Psyshock / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
    move 4: Recover
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid
    evs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 4 SpA / 224 Spe
    ivs: 0 Atk

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes advantage of Starmie's best defensive traits, Natural Cure and Recover, to turn Starmie into a reliabler spinner that can last for the whole game. Rapid Spin clears the field from entry hazards, letting Starmie act as a great team player on almost any team. Scald is Starmie's primary STAB, has decent power and a neat burn chance, giving Starmie the potential to neuter some of it's common switch-ins such as Ferrothorn and Kyurem-B. Psyshock is a very useful move on Starmie, allowing it to OHKO the most common spinblocker, Gengar, deal a minimum of 80% damage to Breloom, and 2HKO Keldeo (regardless of Calm Mind boosts) and Terrakion in sand, all Pokemon that Starmie outspeeds. If Dragon-types are big threats to Starmie's team, Ice Beam should be used over Psyhsock, which OHKOes Dragonite and Salamence (the former after Stealth Rock), 2HKOes Latios, 2HKOes Latios and Hydreigon after Stealth Rock, and deals meaningful damage to most Grass-types. Thunderbolt deals good damage to most Water-types, which Starmie can easily switch into, and lets Starmie OHKO Gyarados after Stealth Rock, acting as a great check to it. Recover is one of the main advantages of Starmie over other defensive spinners, giving it great longevity, and combined with Natural Cure allows Staarmie to switch into a multitude of defensive Pokemon and find many opportunities to use Rapid Spin.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The This EV spread maxes out Starmie's HP, giving it enough bulk to stick around for an extended period of time. 32 Defense EVs are used to avoid the OHKO from Choice Band Terrakion's Stone Edge, and the OHKO from Ferrothorn's Power Whip, meaning that after Ferrothorn is burned not even a critical hit can OHKO Starmie, enabling Starmie to outstall Ferrothorn with ease. The Speed investment allows Starmie to outspeed Timid Gengar, as well as Tornadus, while 4 EVs go to Special Attack in order to always OHKO 4 HP Gengar with Psyhsock. Outspeeding Gengar is crucial to make sure it doesn't spinblock Starmie. The rest of the EVs go into Defense to give Starmie a bit more physical bulk. Lastly, 0 Atk IVs ensure that Starmie takes the minimum damage possible from Sableye's Foul Play, which is useful as Sableye might want to spinblock Starmie.</p>

    <p>Starmie is one of the few Pokemon that learn Reflect Type and it can put it to good use. By replacing its coverage move with Reflect Type, Starmie can deal with some of its most common enemies, namely Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, and Rotom-W, as all those Pokemon fail to do any significant damage to Starmie after it uses Reflect Type, allowing it to beat all of them one on one. Psychic can go be used over Psyshock to hit Conkeldurr and Breloom harder, however Psyshock hits the most important targets harder, such as Keldeo after it has used Calm Mind and Terrakion under sand. Thunder is a viable coverage move on rain teams, allowing Starmie to deal meaningful damage to Jellicent and even 2HKOing it with some previous damage I feel this is too vague. How much damage?. Starmie can also use 124 EVs in on Special Attack to always 2HKO physically defensive Jellicent after Stealth Rock with Thunder, although the loss of bulk loss is annoying missed. Starmie can choose to drop Recover to run Ice Beam, giving it great all-around coverage and allowing it to act as a decent revenge killer. However, this means that Starmie will not stick around for long, losing most of its utility as a defensive spinner and leaving it as an option mostly for offensive teams. Toxic can go over one of Starmie's coverage moves, allowing it to simultaneously beat Jellicent and Sableye, as well as badly cripple Kyurem and Latias, but these are its only significant uses.</p>

    <p>Starmie appreciates strong Fighting-types as teammates, as they can break through its biggest roadblocks, namely Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Rotom-W. Terrakion and Breloom can beat all of those Pokemon, or set-up on them in the case of a Pursuit-locked Tyranitar. Partners that can to beat Jellicent are very helpful as well, as this Starmie variant is unable to get past it. Celebi shuts Jellicent down cold, while Choice Band Tyranitar with a lot of Speed investment can OHKO Jellicent with either Crunch or Pursuit, depending on whether Jellicent stays in or switches out. Celebi and most Dragon-types can easily switch into Starmie, so teammates to handle them are needed. Heatran checks all of those Pokemon, and ;Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Scizor, do the same to a lesser degree. Ferrothorn also helps checks with Jolteon, which can outspeed and KO Starmie, as well as having excellent defensive synergy with Starmie, making for an exceptional teammate.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Psyshock / Thunderbolt
    move 3: Trick
    move 4: Rapid Spin / Ice Beam
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a Choice Specs equipped, and possibly rain support, Starmie is able to 2HKO most of OU with just Hydro Pump, minimizing the need for prediction against anything but a few targets. Surf still hits very hard while being much more reliable, however the power drop is quite noticeable. Psyshock deals with some of the Pokemon that can avoid the 2HKO from Starmie's Water attacks, such as Blissey and specially defensive variants of Jellicent and Rotom-W, while also OHKOing important Pokemon, including Keldeo, Breloom, and Tentacruel (the latter after Stealth Rock).Just a note on former/latter. You can only use it when comparing two things. Reword this accordingly. On the other hand, Thunderbolt has the advantage of 2HKOing any Jellicent variant with the help of Stealth Rock and OHKOing Gyarados, but has generally less utility than Psyshock. Trick makes Starmie even harder to switch into, crippling any defensive answer to it, including the omnipresent Ferrothorn and Celebi, and is one of the main distuingishing features of Starmie over the other common Water-type Choice Specs wielder, Keldeo. Furthermore, by getting rid of Choice Specs with Trick, Starmie gains the advantage of switching moves and is able to use Rapid Spin without becoming utter set up bait. Rapid Spin works great with Trick, as after Starmie cripples one of its counters with it, it can work as a spinner too, allowing Starmie to effectively take three main roles for its team: hard hitter, lure, and spinner. However, if Rapid Spin support is not of great importance for Starmie's team then Ice Beam is the next best option, to deal with the Grass- and Dragon-types that check Starmie, such as Celebi and Latias.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set greatly benefits from rain, as very few Pokemon can avoid the 2HKO from Hydro Pump in rain, making Politoed a very good teammate. The presence of rain also allows Starmie to use Thunder, which hits just as hard as a STAB Psyshock and has a nifty 30% paralyze chance, which can screw over some of Starmie's common switch-ins, such as Latios, Latias, and Kyurem-B. Analytic is a great option over Natural Cure, especially if Starmie has rain support, where Analytic-boosted Hydro Pump and Thunder become incredibly lethal; to give you an example, with the Analytic boost, Thunder always OHKOes physically defensive Jellicent and rain boosted Hydro Pump deals 51.7 - 60.79% to standard Ferrothorn. While this set doesn't have any real counters due to the extreme power behind rain and Choice Specs boosted Water attacks, as well as Trick, bulky Grass-types and Dragon-types are still problematic to Starmie. Terrakion, Weavile, Breloom, and Scizor are all great offensive partners for Starmie, as they can take advantage of Starmie's common switch-ins, such as Celebi, Ferrothorn, and Latias, and even trap most of them in Weavile's and Scizor's case. On the defensive side, Celebi and Ferrothorn can both handle the Electric and Grass attacks that threaten Starmie, while also setting up entry hazards that help Starmie get gain certain OHKOs and 2HKOs. Finally, any offensive Pokemon with similar counters to Starmie makes for a good partner, as this Starmie is a fine lure due to its unexpectedly strong attacks and Trick, which cripple many of its common check and counters, especially those that lack reliable recovery, such as Ferrothorn and specially defensive Rotom-W. Choice Scarf Keldeo, Dragon Dance Gyarados, and Swords Dance Feraligatr are all Pokemon that can sweep easily after Starmie successfully weakens the opposing team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Trick
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Starmie doesn't have the highest Special Attack around, its great Speed and wide coverage allow it to become a decent revenge killer that can outspeed the whole metagame when holding a Choice Scarf. Hydro Pump is Starmie's main STAB, OHKOing Pokemon such as Terrakion and Landorus, while can also allowing Starmie to sometimes clean up late-game, with rain present. Surf is more reliable, but misses the guranteed OHKO on Terrakion and makes it much harder for Starmie to clean up. Ice Beam takes care the plethora of boosting sweepers weak to it, such as Salamence, Dragonite, and Garchomp, while also hitting super effectively Grass-types super effectively. Thunderbolt deals with Gyarados and Keldeo to an extendt, as well as hitting most Water-types for solid damage. Trick rounds off the set and makes sure that Starmie won't be the easiest thing to switch into, as well as making Starmie much more useful against defensive teams.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Psyshock can be used over Thunderbolt to take advantage of the fact that Starmie outspeeds Choice Scarf Keldeo, as Starmie can OHKO it after a bit of residual damage, unlike Thunderbolt, which barely deals over half to Keldeo and struggles to do any real damage to Keldeo if it has accumulated any Calm Mind boosts. Psyshocks also hits Venusaur harder than anything else Starmie can use, usually OHKOing it after Life Orb or Stealth Rock damage. Given that Choice Scarf Starmie outspeeds standard Venusuar under sun, it can be very helpful in a tight situation. Thunder can replace Thunderbolt if Starmie is being used on a rain team, as the extra power and improved paralyze chance are always appreciated. Rapid Spin can also be used over Thunderbolt for team that can already deal with Water-types and have only one slot to dedicate for both a spinner and a revenge killer.</p>

    <p>Starmie needs to have Ferrothorn, Celebi, Latias, and sturdy Water-resists taken care of in order to work effectively. The classic Starmie partners work well, which means that Scizor, Terrakion, and Breloom are all great choices. Politoed is also a very beneficial teammate to power up Starmie's main STAB and give Starmie some sweeping potential after Water-resists have been weakened or eliminated.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Starmie can use a Dual Screen set, but it faces major competition by Azelf, which has Stealth Rock and Taunt while over Starmie does not, making it a more successful Pokemon in that role overall. However, Starmie does have some advantages over Azelf, and those are Water STAB, Recover, Natural Cure, and Rapid Spin, so make sure to take advantage of them. Hidden Power Fire can be used on any set if Starmie is being used on a sun team, mainly to hit Ferrothorn and Scizor, two Pokemon that can hit Starmie hard and Starmie can't properly damage them otherwise (under sun). Hidden Power Grass and Grass Knot are options for teams that struggle with Gastrodon and Rotom-W, while still hitting most Water-types such as Jellicent and Politoed. However, Starmie loses coverage against Flying-types, as well as Tentacruel and Gyarados, leaving it easier to wall in general. Signal Beam can be used on any offensive set to 2HKO Celebi, one of Starmie's hardest enemies to remove. When used on a hail team, Starmie can opt to use Blizzard over Ice Beam, highly increasing its damage output. Thunder Wave allows Starmie to support its team and cripple some of Starmie's usual switch-ins, including Latias, Kyurem, and Kyurem-B. Starmie can also support its team by changing the weather to more favorable or less threatening conditions with Rain Dance or Hail. This strategy is more effective if the opponent's weather starter is down, though. Rain Dance powers up Starmie's Water STAB moves, but isn't effective against Rain teams, while Hail is only there to cancel out the opponent's weather, but is effective against all of the most popular weathers.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chansey and specially defensive Celebi are the best counters to Starmie, as they are able to handle every single one of Starmie's sets set of Starmie with no worries, except for the rare Trick. Ferrothorn completely walls Starmie, can punish the use of Rapid Spin with Iron Barbs, and can OHKO back with Power Whip, while only fearing a Scald burn from defensive variants, which admitteddly troubles Ferrothorn a lot though. Blissey can take on most Starmie variants easily, fearing only Psyshock from Life Orb and Choice Specs variants and Trick. Calm Mind Latias can switch into anything Starmie has, except for Life Orb-boosted Ice Beam, and start setting up on it, making it an excellent check to Starmie. Defensive variants of Kyurem-B wall most offensive sets of Starmie and set up on them, but can't switch into the defensive Starmie so well, in fear of a Scald burn, which would neuter Kyurem-B. Kyurem makes for a very good switch-in to defensive Starmie, as unlike Kyurem-B it doesn't mind getting burned, and can set up a Substitute to comfortably start attacking. All offensive versions of Kyurem and Kyurem-B can also check offensive Starmie with Leftovers pretty well, avoiding the 2HKO from any of its moves even with Stealth Rock up. Any Jellicent variant is a very good check to Starmie, walling Starmie's defensive set and preventing Rapid Spin from working. Furthermore, physically defensive Jellicent walls offensive Starmie sets with Psyshock while specially defensive Jellicent walls offensive Starmie sets with Thunderbolt (Thunder 2HKOes both variants easily though). Rotom-W, especially the specially defensive set, is an excellent switch-in to Starmie, resisting Hydro Pump and not fearing most of its coverage moves, aside from Life Orb or Choice Specs boosted Psyshock and Thunder. Amoonguss is a good check to Starmie that lack Psyshock, as it is able to switch into anything but Ice Beam and 2HKO Starmie with Giga Drain.Any Starmie set that lacks Ice Beam can be taken advantage of by the various Dragon-types that reside in OU, such as Dragonite and Latios.</p>

    <p>Pursuit users have the potential to eliminate Starmie under certain circumstances. Tyranitar can trap and KO Starmie with Pursuit, provided it switches in as Starmie uses Rapid Spin or comes in for free, and avoids getting burned from Scald. Scizor can do the same with Pursuit, as long as it gets in for free, but fails to trap Life Orb and Choice Specs Starmie in rain, which OHKOes it with Hydro Pump. Weavile is the only Pursuit user that has the advantage of outspeeding Starmie, but as like other Pursuit users, it struggles to switch into Starmie as Hydro Pump from offensive variants threatens to OHKO and Scald from defensive sets can neuter Weavile with a burn. Finally, most faster Pokemon can revenge kill Starmie. For example, Jolteon, Alakazam, Choice Scarf Latios, Choice Scarf Terrakion, and Choice Scarf Landorus can all dent or OHKO Starmie, but most of them can't really switch in.</p>
  25. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Thx GCSChris, your check has been implemented!

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