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Starmie (QC 2/2) [Done]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Danilo, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. Danilo

    Danilo
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    [Overview]

    <p>Starmie is easily one of the best Rapid Spin users in OU, if not the best. The blue star is able to easily switch into all of the Spikes users in OU&mdash;with the exception of specially defensive Hidden Power Bug Forretress;&mdashthreaten them out, and spin away Spikes. Additionally, Starmie is one of the fastest Pokemon in OU; its illustrious Speed stat allows it to outspeed all Gengar, Flygon, Salamence, a boosted neutral natured Tyranitar, and other speedy threats in OU, while threatening to OHKO or severely dent all of them with its incredible offensive movepool. Starmie's secondary Psychic typing surprisingly helps it a great deal. It can switch into Celebi that lack Giga Drain or Hidden Power Grass, Rapid Spin away Spikes and potentially Leech Seed, and switch out before Celebi gets too many Calm Mind boosts. Similarly, Starmie can switch into Calm Mind Jirachi lacking Thunderbolt or Hidden Power Grass and support its team with Rapid Spin.</p>

    <p>Unfortunately, Starmie is not without fault. Its Special Attack stat is not high enough to defeat some of the most common walls in ADV, such as Celebi, Zapdos, Blissey, Regice, and Snorlax, with any set. Additionally, all of the aforementioned Pokemon can defeat Starmie with relative ease; Celebi and Blissey can set up Calm Minds, Zapdos and Regice can use Thunderbolt, and Snorlax can use Curse without fear. To make matters worse, Starmie is the only Psychic-type in OU that lacks Calm Mind (bar Claydol). These faults force Starmie to play a more defensive role in ADV OU, despite its incredible offensive movepool. Finally, Starmie's typing gives it weaknesses to many common attacks in OU such as Hidden Power Bug, Thunderbolt, Megahorn, and other common moves, thus diminishing some of its defensive prowess. Although Starmie has a number of important weaknesses, it'd be foolish not to consider it if your team is in need of Rapid Spin support or a versatile and sturdy sweeper.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 40 SpA / 216 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Starmie can function as an incredible Rapid Spin user with the given set. Starmie is the only Rapid Spin user in OU with access to Recover and the potential to beat every single Spikes user in the metagame. Other than getting rid of entry hazards, Rapid Spin is also useful for getting rid of Celebi's Leech Seed, thus giving Starmie another easy switch in to take advantage of and use Rapid Spin. Recover is another very important move for Starmie. With Recover, the blue star can repeatedly switch into and Rapid Spin on Metagross, Snorlax, and other prominent physical attackers. Surf is non-negotiable on Starmie, allowing it to defeat Skarmory, non-Hidden Power Bug Forretress, and Cloyster if Starmie lacks Thunderbolt. There's no need to use Hydro Pump because its low PP and mediocre accuracy is not worth the increase in power. The final moveslot comes down to personal preference. Thunderbolt is good against opposing Water-types, while Ice Beam is useful for Dragon-types such as Salamence.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread ensures that Starmie outspeeds everything up to Gengar, which includes Pokemon such as Zapdos and Flygon. Maximum HP is necessary to ensure that Starmie is able to check non-Choice Band Metagross and helps Starmie stay true to its bulky Water-type status. Reducing Starmie's Speed stat to 332 still allows it to outspeed positive-natured base 100 Speed Pokemon, as well as Adamant +1 Tyranitar. The rest of the EVs can be dumped into Special Attack to increase Starmie's damage output. Maximum Speed investment is useful for outspeeding other Starmie and bulkier Raikou that do not maximize their Speed investment.</p>

    <p>As for moveset changes, Starmie does have a myriad of other options. Psychic is good for nailing a Gengar that might be expecting a Rapid Spin. Psychic is also a good secondary STAB move to hit Water-types such as Milotic. Thunder Wave is useful for crippling devastating sweepers such as Tyranitar, which Starmie can take a hit from, paralyze, and hit hard with Surf; Salamence, which doesn't OHKO Starmie with +1 Hidden Power Flying, will not want to eat a Thunder Wave. Reflect is useful not only for supporting your team, but for allowing Starmie to take on Snorlax with greater ease. Hidden Power Fire is good for defeating specially defensive Forretress with Hidden Power Bug, a variant of Forretress that Starmie can't defeat otherwise.</p>

    <p>As far as teammates go, Pokemon that can defeat special walls are excellent partners. With a couple layers of Spikes down, Metal Sound Zapdos has no problems beating even Blissey, the premier special wall in ADV. With Reflect, Jirachi can set up on and defeat even Curse Snorlax. Regice or Gengar with Focus Punch or Explosion are good at luring in specially defensive walls expecting a special attack. Celebi can switch into most special walls, with the exception of Regice, and set up Calm Minds while utilizing Leech Seed to regain lost health. Other good teammates are Pokemon that outright destroy most special walls. Medicham is one of the best wallbreakers in OU and can 2HKO every single special wall in the tier. Metagross can switch into Regice, Snorlax, and Blissey with ease and proceed to threaten them with a STAB Meteor Mash. Tyranitar has no problem setting up on Blissey and Regice lacking Thunder Wave and can instantly threaten a sweep. Finally, grounded Pokemon that appreciate Rapid Spin support to consistently check threats are good partners for Starmie. Celebi, Jirachi, Blissey, and Snorlax are good examples of Pokemon that appreciate the removal of Spikes to consistently check dangerous threats.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Star
    move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Recover
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Starmie functions well as a special sweeper, with its combined blessings of a great offensive movepool and a usable Special Attack stat. Surf is Starmie's main STAB move, useful for whittling away at the HP of Snorlax and Regice while dealing hefty damage to Swampert, Flygon, and Heracross. Hydro Pump is an option if you're using Starmie on more offensive teams. Thunderbolt prevents Starmie from being walled by Pokemon such as Milotic, opposing Starmie, Gyarados, and other common Water-types. Ice Beam is Starmie's best option against Celebi and Zapdos, forming the famous coverage combination of BoltBeam with Thunderbolt. Recover rounds off the set, ensuring that Starmie is able to bring the pain throughout the battle by increasing its longevity.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread allows Starmie to outspeed all Gengar, Flygon, Zapdos, and other fast threats in the metagame, while Speed tying with Raikou and opposing Starmie that are running 252 Speed EVs and a Speed-boosting nature. This Starmie set is going to need a good amount of support if it is going to thrive on your team. Dedicated specially defensive walls give this set a lot of trouble. To remedy this problem, Spikes and sandstorm damage is a great way to defeat Snorlax and Regice over time. Skarmory is the best physical wall in the tier and has access to Spikes. Forretress can get rid of Spikes to make sure that Starmie can switch in with more ease while it sets up its own Spikes. Tyranitar is arguably the most dominate Pokemon in OU, can set up on Regice and Snorlax, and its access to Sand Stream negates their Leftovers recovery. Although Snorlax and Regice have an incredible Special Defense stat, they're not very adept at taking repeated hits. However, Blissey is a different story. Because of Blissey's unparalleled specially defensive prowess, Starmie will need teammates that can lure in and OHKO Blissey. Pokemon such as Explosion Gengar and Regice are very good at luring out and OHKOing Blissey. Additionally, the aforementioned lures are also good at defeating Regice and Snorlax, despite their superior Defense stats.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As far as other options go, Starmie doesn't have too many other things to choose from other than the sets listed earlier. Thunder is a stronger alternative over Thunderbolt while Blizzard is a stronger alternative to Ice Beam; unfortunately, both Blizzard and Thunder's relatively low accuracy diminish their viability. Rain Dance is cool for boosting Surf's power as well as activating Starmie's teammates' Swift Swim; more importantly, Rain Dance is useful for giving Starmie and its teammates a Thunder with perfect accuracy. Light Screen is useful for supporting Starmie's team, as well as giving Starmie a better chance at combating Zapdos. Other than the given sets, it's best to be using Starmie offensively or not at all.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>If Starmie is not running the offensive set, it's very easy to check. Even if running an offensive set, Starmie will still be stopped cold by the trifecta of OU's special walls known as Regice, Snorlax, and Blissey. Regice gets rid of Starmie with Thunderbolt, Blissey can set up Calm Minds and threaten a sweep, and Snorlax can do the same with Curse. Other than the aforementioned dedicated special walls, Starmie can still be checked reliably by other Pokemon. More offensive checks to Starmie include Raikou, which can take a Surf that Starmie throws at it and set up Calm Minds; Jolteon can take any of Starmie's special attack with ease and destroy it with Thunderbolt; Zapdos can also OHKO Starmie with Thunderbolt. If you're feeling gutsy, Dugtrio can come in on a weakened Starmie and attempt a KO with a Choice Band-boosted Earthquake. Suicune takes little from any attack bar Thunderbolt, can Calm Mind to lessen Thunderbolt's damage, and sweep; additionally, Celebi and Jirachi can both set up Calm Minds against Starmie. 252 HP / 252 SpD Forretress with Hidden Power Bug can take a few of Surfs from the first set, two Surfs from the offensive set, and defeat Starmie with its STAB Hidden Power Bug. Finally, Vaporeon and Milotic can stall out Starmie with Toxic, their good Special Defense stats, and access to reliable recovery. Starmie's access to Natural Cure means it won't be beaten outright by these two Pokemon, however. All in all, Starmie, while an incredible spinner, isn't something to be too afraid of if you run a sturdy specially defensive wall.</p>
  2. meteor64

    meteor64

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    I think most people run a slower spread with more investment in Sp. Atk. Personally I prefer being able to hit Zapdos and Celebi harder on a switch in.

    Is it right to put Psychic before Thunderbolt/Ice Beam? Psychic has been growing more common, but Tbolt/Ice Beam have been a long time standard.

    Also, Reflect is definitely one of Starmies better choices in Other Options, especially since Starmie is such a good lax lure.
  3. Danilo

    Danilo
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    this looks okay now. ready for qc
  4. gene

    gene GENE
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    i honestly wouldn't say that

    psychic should be an other option at best, it's only useful for gengar really. ice beam/thunderbolt are a million times more useful.

    you also need to include a surf/ice beam/thunderbolt/recover set. it's really strong against teams that lack blissey. for this set, i'd recommend max spatk, enough for ~352-353 speed, rest in hp. a lot of tss teams have trouble with this set.

    you can also mention having a spread with only enough for about ~333 speed (to outrun +speed base 100s).
  5. Danilo

    Danilo
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    added most of the suggestions posted and discussed on irc
  6. Floppy

    Floppy
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    -[22:31:41]- <Floppy> only one thing i wanted to mention
    -[22:31:47]- <Floppy> but i forgot the specifics
    -[22:31:55]- <Floppy> was the ev's jump used to use
    -[22:31:58]- <Floppy> on rs starmie
    -[22:32:15]- <Floppy> those would be great as an alternative, if not standard

    if anyone can chime in what those evs were, that'd be cool. outside of that everything looks fine.

    I APPROVE
  7. Pocket

    Pocket GOJIRA
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    Sir, I got some revisions for you~

    This should be the first sentence of the 2nd para in Overview
    More like any set
    "tier" seems a little awkward, since it implies Ubers, UU, etc. "metagame" is more appropriate.
    Due to the stat jump 328 -> 330, Timid Starmie cannot have 329 Speed.

    332 Speed should be the minimum to stay faster than +1 Adamant TTar

    Snorlax isn't the best choice, imo, since it can simply rack up Curse boosts (not all Snorlax selfdestructs). Maybe replace Snorlax with Swampert.
    Milotic only takes 36-43% from TB; possibly behind parenthesis add (with spikes + sand support), which you mention later on

    ~ Also AC mention max Speed, which comes in handy when you want the speed advantage against opposing Starmie and Raikou

    stronger alternative to Ice Beam
    Be more specific. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress can comfortably take 2 Surfs from offensive variants; 3 Surfs from the Rapid Spinner.
    Perfect accuracy Thunder is more noteworthy than Swift Swim

    ~ Confuse Ray & Light Screen in OO

    ~ Milotic in Checks & Counters; Milotic with Toxic can stall Starmie
  8. Royal Flush

    Royal Flush

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    I don't see how the electrics bar Zapdos tank a hit from Starmie. They are usually offensive oriented and lack a recovery move, plus they need to be at full health for a better potential, especially Raikou. They will of course scare the hell out of it, but can't really afford switching everytime. Same thing applies to Forry unless he carries Rest and being full SDef +nature.
    I know you're just trying to have good eloquence, but "can take special attacks with ease" and "take a ton of Surfs" for those mons are an overstatement and might be misleading for players new to this gen.

    And well Vapo and Milo can indeed stall it with Toxic, but the same thing applies to Starmie itself due to Natural Cure and Recover (and if TBolt crits they're totally screwed). Besides those stuff I pointed, analysis looks good.
  9. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    isn't a more defensive spread viable? I guess a set with 332 speed and rest in HP and def could work both as a spinner and sort of a ddtar, ddmence, flygon, and metagross counter on relatively fast teams.
  10. Danilo

    Danilo
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    Added suggestions. Gonna hold off until DracoMalfoy looks over this analysis
  11. DracoMalfoy

    DracoMalfoy need a little time to wake up wake up
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    Can you explain the reason why to have 44 HP EVs in the second set? I really think max speed there would be better for speed ties or such thing. Other than that, it's really good.

    Approved (2/2)
  12. Danilo

    Danilo
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    Added your spread since it's better.
    gps please
  13. gookie

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    diff messed up

    c/p

    amcheck
  14. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
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    Diff (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Starmie is easily one of the best Rapid Spin users in OU, if not the best. The blue star is able to switch easily into all of the Spikes users in OU, &mdash;with the exception of specially defensive Hidden Power Bug Forretress;&mdash, threaten them out, and spin away Spikes. Additionally, Starmie is one of the fastest Pokemon in OU; Starmie's illustrious Speed stat allows it to outspeed all Gengar, Flygon, Salamence, a boosted neutral natured Tyranitar, and other speedy threats in OU, while threatening to OHKO or severely dent all of them with its incredible offensive movepool. Despite Starmie's secondary Psychic typing being a burden in later generations, surprisingly, it helps Starmie a great deal. Starmie can switch into Celebi that lacking Giga Drain or Hidden Power Grass, Rapid Spin away Spikes and potentially Leech Seed, and switch out before Celebi gets too many Calm Mind boosts. Similarly, Starmie can switch into Calm Mind Jirachi lacking Thunderbolt or Hidden Power Grass and support its team with Rapid Spin.</p>

    <p>Unfortunately, Starmie is not without faults. Starmie's Special Attack stat is not high enough to defeat some of the most common walls in ADV, such as Celebi, Zapdos, Blissey, Regice, and Snorlax with any set. Additionally, all of the aforementioned Pokemon can defeat Starmie with relative ease; Celebi and Blissey can set-up no hyphen Calm Minds, Zapdos and Regice can use Thunderbolt, and Snorlax can use Curse without fear. To make matters worse, Starmie is the only Psychic-type in OU that lacks Calm Mind (bar Claydol). These faults force Starmie to play a more defensive role in ADV OU, despite its incredible offensive movepool. Finally, Starmie's typing gives it weaknesses to many common attacks in OU such as Hidden Power Bug, Thunderbolt, Megahorn, and other common moves, thus diminishing some of its defensive prowess. Although Starmie has a number of important weaknesses, it'd be foolish not to consider it if your team is in need of Rapid Spin support, or a versatile and sturdy sweeper.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 40 SpA / 216 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Starmie can function as an incredible Rapid Spin user with the given set. Starmie is the only Rapid Spin user in OU with access to Recover and the potential to beat every single Spikes user in the metagame. Other than getting rid of entry hazards, Rapid Spin is also useful for getting rid of Celebi's Leech Seed, thus giving Starmie another easy switch-in no hyphen to take advantage of and use Rapid Spin. Recover is another very important move for Starmie. With Recover, the blue star can repeatedly switch into and Rapid Spin on Metagross, Snorlax, and other prominent physical attackers. Surf is non-negotiable on Starmie, allowing it to defeat Skarmory, non-Hidden Power Bug Forretress, and Cloyster if Starmie lacks Thunderbolt. There's no need to use Hydro Pump because its low PP and mediocre accuracy is not worth the increase in power. The final moveslot comes down to personal preference. Thunderbolt is good against Water-types, while Ice Beam is useful for Dragon-types, such as Salamence.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread ensures that Starmie outspeeds everything up to Gengar, which includesing Pokemon such as Zapdos and Flygon. Maximum HP is necessary to ensure that Starmie is able to check non-Choice Band Metagross, and helps Starmie stay true to its bulky Water-type status. Reducing Starmie's Speed stat to 332 still allows it to outspeed positive-natured base 100 Speed Pokemon, as well as Adamant +1 Tyranitar. The rest of the EVs can be dumped into Special Attack to increase Starmie's damage output. Maximum Speed investment is useful for outspeeding other Starmie and bulkier Raikou that do not maximize their Speed investment.</p>

    <p>As for moveset changes, Starmie does have a myriad of other options. Psychic is good for nailing a Gengar that mightay be expecting a Rapid Spin. Psychic is also a good secondary STAB move to hit Water-types such as Milotic. Thunder Wave is useful for crippling devastating sweepers such as Tyranitar, which Starmie can take a hit from, paralyze, and hit hard with a Surf; Salamence, which doesn't OHKO Starmie with a +1 Hidden Power Flying, has to eat a Thunder Wave. Reflect is useful not only for supporting your team, but for allowing Starmie to take on Snorlax with greater ease. Hidden Power Fire is good for defeating specially defensive Forretress with Hidden Power Bug, a variant of Forretress that Starmie can't defeat otherwise.</p>

    <p>As far as teammates go, Pokemon that can defeat special walls are excellent partners. With a couple layers of Spikes down, Metal Sound Zapdos has no problems beating even Blissey, the premier special wall in ADV. With Reflect, Jirachi can set up on and defeat even Curse Snorlax. Regice or Gengar with Focus Punch or Explosion are good at luring in specially defensive walls expecting a special attack. Celebi can switch into most special walls, with the exception of Regice, and set up Calm Minds while utilizing Leech Seed to regain lost health. Other good teammates are Pokemon that outright destroy most special walls. Medicham is one of the best wall breakers in OU, and can 2HKO every single special wall in the tier. Metagross can switch into Regice, Snorlax, and Blissey with ease, and proceed to threaten them with a STAB Meteor Mash. Tyranitar has no problem setting up on Blissey and Regice lacking Thunder Wave, and can instantly threaten a sweep. Finally, grounded Pokemon that appreciate Rapid Spin support to consistently check threats are good partners for Starmie. Celebi, Jirachi, Blissey, and Snorlax are good examples of Pokemon that appreciate the removal of Spikes to consistently check dangerous threats.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Star
    move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Recover
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Starmie functions well as a special sweeper, with its combined blessings of a great offensive movepool and a usable Special Attack stat. Surf is Starmie's main STAB move, useful for whittling away at the HP of Snorlax and Regice, while dealing hefty damage to Swampert, Flygon, and Heracross. Hydro Pump is an option if you're using Starmie on more offensive teams. Thunderbolt prevents Starmie from being walled by Pokemon such as Milotic, opposing Starmie, Gyarados, and other common Water-type Pokemon. Ice Beam is Starmie's best option against Celebi and Zapdos, while forming the infamous BoltBeam coverage combination with Thunderbolt. Recover rounds off the set, ensuring that Starmie is able to bring the pain throughout the battle by increasing its longevity.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread allows Starmie outspeed all Gengar, Flygon, Zapdos, and other fast threats in the metagame, while Speed-tying with Raikou and opposing Starmie that are running 252 Speed EVs and a Speed-boosting nature. This Starmie set is going to need a good amount of support if it is going to thrive on your team. Dedicated specially defensive walls give this set a lot of trouble. To remedy this problem, Spikes and sandstorm damage is a great way to defeat Snorlax and Regice over time. Skarmory is the best physical wall in the tier and has access to Spikes. Forretress can get rid of Spikes to make sure that Starmie acn can switch in with more ease while it sets up its own Spikes. Tyranitar is arguably the most dominate Pokemon in OU, can set up on Regice and Snorlax, and its access to Sand Stream negates their Leftovers recovery. Although Snorlax and Regice have an incredible Special Defense stat, they're not very adept at taking repeated hits. However, Blissey is a different story. Because of Blissey's unparalleled specially defensive prowess, Starmie will need teammates that can lure in and OHKO Blissey. Pokemon such as Explosion Gengar and Regice are very good at luring out and OHKOing Regice Blissey. Additionally, the aforementioned lures are also good at defeating Regice and Snorlax, despite their superior Defense stats.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As far as other options go, Starmie doesn't have too many other things to choose from other than the sets listed earlier. Thunder is a stronger alternative over Thunderbolt while Blizzard is a stronger alternative to Ice Beam; unfortunately, both Blizzard and Thunder's relatively low accuracy diminish their viability. Rain Dance is cool for boosting Surf's power as well as activating Starmie's teammates Swift Swim; more importantly, Rain Dance is useful for giving Starmie and its teammates a Thunder with perfect accuracy. Light Screen is useful for supporting Starmie's team, as well as giving Starmie a better chance at combating Zapdos. Other than the given set, it's best to be using Starmie offensively or not at all.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>If Starmie is not running the offensive set, it's very easy to check. Even if running an offensive set, Starmie will still be stopped cold by the trifecta of OU's special walls known as Regice, Snorlax, and Blissey. Regice gets rid of Starmie with Thunderbolt, Blissey can set up Calm Minds and threaten a sweep, and Snorlax can do the same with Curse. Other than the aforementioned dedicated special walls, Starmie can still be checked reliably by other Pokemon. More offensive checks to Starmie include Raikou, which can take a Surf that Starmie throws at it, and set up Calm Minds; Jolteon can take any of Starmie's special attack with ease and destroy it with Thunderbolt; Zapdos can also OHKO Starmie with Thunderbolt. If you're feeling gutsy, Dugtrio can come in on a weakened Starmie and attempt a KO with a Choice Banded Earthquake. Suicune takes little from any attack bar Thunderbolt, can Calm Mind to lessen Thunderbolts damage, and sweep; additionally, Celebi and Jirachi can both set up Calm Minds against Starmie. 252 HP / 252 SpD Forretress with Hidden Power Bug can take a few of Surfs from the first set, two Surfs from the offensive set, and defeat Starmie with its STAB Hidden Power Bug. Finally, Vaporeon and Milotic can stall out Starmie with Toxic, their good Special Defense stats, and access to reliable recovery. Starmie's access to Natural Cure means it won't be beaten outright by these two Pokemon, however. All in all, Starmie, while an incredible spinner, isn't something to be too afraid of if you run a sturdy specially defensive wall.</p>



    C/P (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Starmie is easily one of the best Rapid Spin users in OU, if not the best. The blue star is able to switch easily into all of the Spikes users in OU &mdash;with the exception of specially defensive Hidden Power Bug Forretress;&mdash threaten them out, and spin away Spikes. Additionally, Starmie is one of the fastest Pokemon in OU; Starmie's illustrious Speed stat allows it to outspeed all Gengar, Flygon, Salamence, a boosted neutral natured Tyranitar, and other speedy threats in OU, while threatening to OHKO or severely dent all of them with its incredible offensive movepool. Despite Starmie's secondary Psychic typing, surprisingly, it helps Starmie a great deal. Starmie can switch into Celebi that lack Giga Drain or Hidden Power Grass, Rapid Spin away Spikes and potentially Leech Seed, and switch out before Celebi gets too many Calm Mind boosts. Similarly, Starmie can switch into Calm Mind Jirachi lacking Thunderbolt or Hidden Power Grass and support its team with Rapid Spin.</p>

    <p>Unfortunately, Starmie is not without fault. Starmie's Special Attack stat is not high enough to defeat some of the most common walls in ADV, such as Celebi, Zapdos, Blissey, Regice, and Snorlax with any set. Additionally, all of the aforementioned Pokemon can defeat Starmie with relative ease; Celebi and Blissey can setup Calm Minds, Zapdos and Regice can use Thunderbolt, and Snorlax can use Curse without fear. To make matters worse, Starmie is the only Psychic-type in OU that lacks Calm Mind (bar Claydol). These faults force Starmie to play a more defensive role in ADV OU, despite its incredible offensive movepool. Finally, Starmie's typing gives it weaknesses to many common attacks in OU such as Hidden Power Bug, Thunderbolt, Megahorn, and other common moves, thus diminishing some of its defensive prowess. Although Starmie has a number of important weaknesses, it'd be foolish not to consider it if your team is in need of Rapid Spin support, or a versatile and sturdy sweeper.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 40 SpA / 216 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Starmie can function as an incredible Rapid Spin user with the given set. Starmie is the only Rapid Spin user in OU with access to Recover and the potential to beat every single Spikes user in the metagame. Other than getting rid of entry hazards, Rapid Spin is also useful for getting rid of Celebi's Leech Seed, thus giving Starmie another easy switch in to take advantage of and use Rapid Spin. Recover is another very important move for Starmie. With Recover, the blue star can repeatedly switch into and Rapid Spin on Metagross, Snorlax, and other prominent physical attackers. Surf is non-negotiable on Starmie, allowing it to defeat Skarmory, non-Hidden Power Bug Forretress, and Cloyster if Starmie lacks Thunderbolt. There's no need to use Hydro Pump because its low PP and mediocre accuracy is not worth the increase in power. The final moveslot comes down to personal preference. Thunderbolt is good against Water-types, while Ice Beam is useful for Dragon-types, such as Salamence.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread ensures that Starmie outspeeds everything up to Gengar, which includes Pokemon such as Zapdos and Flygon. Maximum HP is necessary to ensure that Starmie is able to check non-Choice Band Metagross, and helps Starmie stay true to its bulky Water-type status. Reducing Starmie's Speed stat to 332 still allows it to outspeed positive-natured base 100 Speed Pokemon, as well as Adamant +1 Tyranitar. The rest of the EVs can be dumped into Special Attack to increase Starmie's damage output. Maximum Speed investment is useful for outspeeding other Starmie and bulkier Raikou that do not maximize their Speed investment.</p>

    <p>As for moveset changes, Starmie does have a myriad of other options. Psychic is good for nailing a Gengar that might be expecting a Rapid Spin. Psychic is also a good secondary STAB move to hit Water-types such as Milotic. Thunder Wave is useful for crippling devastating sweepers such as Tyranitar, which Starmie can take a hit from, paralyze, and hit hard with a Surf; Salamence, which doesn't OHKO Starmie with a +1 Hidden Power Flying, has to eat a Thunder Wave. Reflect is useful not only for supporting your team, but for allowing Starmie to take on Snorlax with greater ease. Hidden Power Fire is good for defeating specially defensive Forretress with Hidden Power Bug, a variant of Forretress that Starmie can't defeat otherwise.</p>

    <p>As far as teammates go, Pokemon that can defeat special walls are excellent partners. With a couple layers of Spikes down, Metal Sound Zapdos has no problems beating even Blissey, the premier special wall in ADV. With Reflect, Jirachi can set up on and defeat even Curse Snorlax. Regice or Gengar with Focus Punch or Explosion are good at luring in specially defensive walls expecting a special attack. Celebi can switch into most special walls, with the exception of Regice, and set up Calm Minds while utilizing Leech Seed to regain lost health. Other good teammates are Pokemon that outright destroy most special walls. Medicham is one of the best wall breakers in OU, and can 2HKO every single special wall in the tier. Metagross can switch into Regice, Snorlax, and Blissey with ease, and proceed to threaten them with a STAB Meteor Mash. Tyranitar has no problem setting up on Blissey and Regice lacking Thunder Wave, and can instantly threaten a sweep. Finally, grounded Pokemon that appreciate Rapid Spin support to consistently check threats are good partners for Starmie. Celebi, Jirachi, Blissey, and Snorlax are good examples of Pokemon that appreciate the removal of Spikes to consistently check dangerous threats.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Star
    move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Recover
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Starmie functions well as a special sweeper, with its combined blessings of a great offensive movepool and a usable Special Attack stat. Surf is Starmie's main STAB move, useful for whittling away at the HP of Snorlax and Regice, while dealing hefty damage to Swampert, Flygon, and Heracross. Hydro Pump is an option if you're using Starmie on more offensive teams. Thunderbolt prevents Starmie from being walled by Pokemon such as Milotic, opposing Starmie, Gyarados, and other common Water-type Pokemon. Ice Beam is Starmie's best option against Celebi and Zapdos, forming the famous combination with Thunderbolt. Recover rounds off the set, ensuring that Starmie is able to bring the pain throughout the battle by increasing its longevity.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread allows Starmie outspeed all Gengar, Flygon, Zapdos, and other fast threats in the metagame, while Speed-tying with Raikou and opposing Starmie that are running 252 Speed EVs and a Speed-boosting nature. This Starmie set is going to need a good amount of support if it is going to thrive on your team. Dedicated specially defensive walls give this set a lot of trouble. To remedy this problem, Spikes and sandstorm damage is a great way to defeat Snorlax and Regice over time. Skarmory is the best physical wall in the tier and has access to Spikes. Forretress can get rid of Spikes to make sure that Starmie can switch in with more ease while it sets up its own Spikes. Tyranitar is arguably the most dominate Pokemon in OU, can set up on Regice and Snorlax, and its access to Sand Stream negates their Leftovers recovery. Although Snorlax and Regice have an incredible Special Defense stat, they're not very adept at taking repeated hits. However, Blissey is a different story. Because of Blissey's unparalleled specially defensive prowess, Starmie will need teammates that can lure in and OHKO Blissey. Pokemon such as Explosion Gengar and Regice are very good at luring out and OHKOing Blissey. Additionally, the aforementioned lures are also good at defeating Regice and Snorlax, despite their superior Defense stats.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As far as other options go, Starmie doesn't have to many other things to choose from other than the sets listed earlier. Thunder is a stronger alternative over Thunderbolt while Blizzard is a stronger alternative to Ice Beam; unfortunately, both Blizzard and Thunder's relatively low accuracy diminish their viability. Rain Dance is cool for boosting Surf's power as well as activating Starmie's teammates Swift Swim; more importantly, Rain Dance is useful for giving Starmie and its teammates a Thunder with perfect accuracy. Light Screen is useful for supporting Starmie's team, as well as giving Starmie a better chance at combating Zapdos. Other than the given set, it's best to be using Starmie offensively or not at all.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>If Starmie is not running the offensive set, it's very easy to check. Even if running an offensive set, Starmie will still be stopped cold by the trifecta of OU's special walls known as Regice, Snorlax, and Blissey. Regice gets rid of Starmie with Thunderbolt, Blissey can set up Calm Minds and threaten a sweep, and Snorlax can do the same with Curse. Other than the aforementioned dedicated special walls, Starmie can still be checked reliably by other Pokemon. More offensive checks to Starmie include Raikou, which can take a Surf that Starmie throws at it, and set up Calm Minds; Jolteon can take any of Starmie's special attack with ease and destroy it with Thunderbolt; Zapdos can also OHKO Starmie with Thunderbolt. If you're feeling gutsy, Dugtrio can come in on a weakened Starmie and attempt a KO with a Choice Banded Earthquake. Suicune takes little from any attack bar Thunderbolt, can Calm Mind to lessen Thunderbolts damage, and sweep; additionally, Celebi and Jirachi can both set up Calm Minds against Starmie. 252 HP / 252 SpD Forretress with Hidden Power Bug can take a few of Surfs from the first set, two Surfs from the offensive set, and defeat Starmie with its STAB Hidden Power Bug. Finally, Vaporeon and Milotic can stall out Starmie with Toxic, their good Special Defense stats, and access to reliable recovery. Starmie's access to Natural Cure means it won't be beaten outright by these two Pokemon, however. All in all, Starmie, while an incredible spinner, isn't something to be too afraid of if you run a sturdy specially defensive wall.</p>




    Good job!

    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  15. Danilo

    Danilo
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,227
    thanks yonko
    1 more plz
  16. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,302
    C/P GP incoming~

    copy/paste (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Starmie is easily one of the best Rapid Spin users in OU, if not the best. The blue star is able to easily switch into all of the Spikes users in OU&mdash;with the exception of specially defensive Hidden Power Bug Forretress;&mdashthreaten them out, and spin away Spikes. Additionally, Starmie is one of the fastest Pokemon in OU; its illustrious Speed stat allows it to outspeed all Gengar, Flygon, Salamence, a boosted neutral natured Tyranitar, and other speedy threats in OU, while threatening to OHKO or severely dent all of them with its incredible offensive movepool. Starmie's secondary Psychic typing surprisingly helps it a great deal. It can switch into Celebi that lack Giga Drain or Hidden Power Grass, Rapid Spin away Spikes and potentially Leech Seed, and switch out before Celebi gets too many Calm Mind boosts. Similarly, Starmie can switch into Calm Mind Jirachi lacking Thunderbolt or Hidden Power Grass and support its team with Rapid Spin.</p>

    <p>Unfortunately, Starmie is not without fault. Its Special Attack stat is not high enough to defeat some of the most common walls in ADV, such as Celebi, Zapdos, Blissey, Regice, and Snorlax with any set. Additionally, all of the aforementioned Pokemon can defeat Starmie with relative ease; Celebi and Blissey can set up Calm Minds, Zapdos and Regice can use Thunderbolt, and Snorlax can use Curse without fear. To make matters worse, Starmie is the only Psychic-type in OU that lacks Calm Mind (bar Claydol). These faults force Starmie to play a more defensive role in ADV OU, despite its incredible offensive movepool. Finally, Starmie's typing gives it weaknesses to many common attacks in OU such as Hidden Power Bug, Thunderbolt, Megahorn, and other common moves, thus diminishing some of its defensive prowess. Although Starmie has a number of important weaknesses, it'd be foolish not to consider it if your team is in need of Rapid Spin support or a versatile and sturdy sweeper.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 40 SpA / 216 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Starmie can function as an incredible Rapid Spin user with the given set. Starmie is the only Rapid Spin user in OU with access to Recover and the potential to beat every single Spikes user in the metagame. Other than getting rid of entry hazards, Rapid Spin is also useful for getting rid of Celebi's Leech Seed, thus giving Starmie another easy switch in to take advantage of and use Rapid Spin. Recover is another very important move for Starmie. With Recover, the blue star can repeatedly switch into and Rapid Spin on Metagross, Snorlax, and other prominent physical attackers. Surf is non-negotiable on Starmie, allowing it to defeat Skarmory, non-Hidden Power Bug Forretress, and Cloyster if Starmie lacks Thunderbolt. There's no need to use Hydro Pump because its low PP and mediocre accuracy is not worth the increase in power. The final moveslot comes down to personal preference. Thunderbolt is good against opposing Water-types, while Ice Beam is useful for Dragon-types, such as Salamence.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread ensures that Starmie outspeeds everything up to Gengar, which includes Pokemon such as Zapdos and Flygon. Maximum HP is necessary to ensure that Starmie is able to check non-Choice Band Metagross and helps Starmie stay true to its bulky Water-type status. Reducing Starmie's Speed stat to 332 still allows it to outspeed positive-natured base 100 Speed Pokemon, as well as Adamant +1 Tyranitar. The rest of the EVs can be dumped into Special Attack to increase Starmie's damage output. Maximum Speed investment is useful for outspeeding other Starmie and bulkier Raikou that do not maximize their Speed investment.</p>

    <p>As for moveset changes, Starmie does have a myriad of other options. Psychic is good for nailing a Gengar that might be expecting a Rapid Spin. Psychic is also a good secondary STAB move to hit Water-types such as Milotic. Thunder Wave is useful for crippling devastating sweepers such as Tyranitar, which Starmie can take a hit from, paralyze, and hit hard with a Surf; Salamence, which doesn't OHKO Starmie with a +1 Hidden Power Flying, will not want to eat a Thunder Wave. Reflect is useful not only for supporting your team, but for allowing Starmie to take on Snorlax with greater ease. Hidden Power Fire is good for defeating specially defensive Forretress with Hidden Power Bug, a variant of Forretress that Starmie can't defeat otherwise.</p>

    <p>As far as teammates go, Pokemon that can defeat special walls are excellent partners. With a couple layers of Spikes down, Metal Sound Zapdos has no problems beating even Blissey, the premier special wall in ADV. With Reflect, Jirachi can set up on and defeat even Curse Snorlax. Regice or Gengar with Focus Punch or Explosion are good at luring in specially defensive walls expecting a special attack. Celebi can switch into most special walls, with the exception of Regice, and set up Calm Minds while utilizing Leech Seed to regain lost health. Other good teammates are Pokemon that outright destroy most special walls. Medicham is one of the best wall breakers in OU and can 2HKO every single special wall in the tier. Metagross can switch into Regice, Snorlax, and Blissey with ease and proceed to threaten them with a STAB Meteor Mash. Tyranitar has no problem setting up on Blissey and Regice lacking Thunder Wave and can instantly threaten a sweep. Finally, grounded Pokemon that appreciate Rapid Spin support to consistently check threats are good partners for Starmie. Celebi, Jirachi, Blissey, and Snorlax are good examples of Pokemon that appreciate the removal of Spikes to consistently check dangerous threats.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Star
    move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Recover
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Starmie functions well as a special sweeper, with its combined blessings of a great offensive movepool and a usable Special Attack stat. Surf is Starmie's main STAB move, useful for whittling away at the HP of Snorlax and Regice while dealing hefty damage to Swampert, Flygon, and Heracross. Hydro Pump is an option if you're using Starmie on more offensive teams. Thunderbolt prevents Starmie from being walled by Pokemon such as Milotic, opposing Starmie, Gyarados, and other common Water-types. Ice Beam is Starmie's best option against Celebi and Zapdos, forming the famous coverage combination with Thunderbolt. Recover rounds off the set, ensuring that Starmie is able to bring the pain throughout the battle by increasing its longevity.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread allows Starmie outspeed all Gengar, Flygon, Zapdos, and other fast threats in the metagame, while Speed-tying with Raikou and opposing Starmie that are running 252 Speed EVs and a Speed-boosting nature. This Starmie set is going to need a good amount of support if it is going to thrive on your team. Dedicated specially defensive walls give this set a lot of trouble. To remedy this problem, Spikes and sandstorm damage is a great way to defeat Snorlax and Regice over time. Skarmory is the best physical wall in the tier and has access to Spikes. Forretress can get rid of Spikes to make sure that Starmie can switch in with more ease while it sets up its own Spikes. Tyranitar is arguably the most dominate Pokemon in OU, can set up on Regice and Snorlax, and its access to Sand Stream negates their Leftovers recovery. Although Snorlax and Regice have an incredible Special Defense stat, they're not very adept at taking repeated hits. However, Blissey is a different story. Because of Blissey's unparalleled specially defensive prowess, Starmie will need teammates that can lure in and OHKO Blissey. Pokemon such as Explosion Gengar and Regice are very good at luring out and OHKOing Blissey. Additionally, the aforementioned lures are also good at defeating Regice and Snorlax, despite their superior Defense stats.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As far as other options go, Starmie doesn't have too many other things to choose from other than the sets listed earlier. Thunder is a stronger alternative over Thunderbolt while Blizzard is a stronger alternative to Ice Beam; unfortunately, both Blizzard and Thunder's relatively low accuracy diminish their viability. Rain Dance is cool for boosting Surf's power as well as activating Starmie's teammates Swift Swim; more importantly, Rain Dance is useful for giving Starmie and its teammates a Thunder with perfect accuracy. Light Screen is useful for supporting Starmie's team, as well as giving Starmie a better chance at combating Zapdos. Other than the given set, it's best to be using Starmie offensively or not at all.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>If Starmie is not running the offensive set, it's very easy to check. Even if running an offensive set, Starmie will still be stopped cold by the trifecta of OU's special walls known as Regice, Snorlax, and Blissey. Regice gets rid of Starmie with Thunderbolt, Blissey can set up Calm Minds and threaten a sweep, and Snorlax can do the same with Curse. Other than the aforementioned dedicated special walls, Starmie can still be checked reliably by other Pokemon. More offensive checks to Starmie include Raikou, which can take a Surf that Starmie throws at it and set up Calm Minds; Jolteon can take any of Starmie's special attack with ease and destroy it with Thunderbolt; Zapdos can also OHKO Starmie with Thunderbolt. If you're feeling gutsy, Dugtrio can come in on a weakened Starmie and attempt a KO with a Choice Banded Earthquake. Suicune takes little from any attack bar Thunderbolt, can Calm Mind to lessen Thunderbolts damage, and sweep; additionally, Celebi and Jirachi can both set up Calm Minds against Starmie. 252 HP / 252 SpD Forretress with Hidden Power Bug can take a few of Surfs from the first set, two Surfs from the offensive set, and defeat Starmie with its STAB Hidden Power Bug. Finally, Vaporeon and Milotic can stall out Starmie with Toxic, their good Special Defense stats, and access to reliable recovery. Starmie's access to Natural Cure means it won't be beaten outright by these two Pokemon, however. All in all, Starmie, while an incredible spinner, isn't something to be too afraid of if you run a sturdy specially defensive wall.</p>

    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  17. Danilo

    Danilo
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
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    thanks jellicent
    this is done
  18. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

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