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Starmie (Update) [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Crystal_, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    [Overview]

    <p>Access to Recover and a Psychic typing are both often synonyms of success in RBY. Starmie is no exception, shining in the oldest generation as one of the best defensive Pokemon, while still posing a threat offensively when Chansey is gone. Still, Starmie has even more things going for it. Starmie's great Speed lets it outspeed every OU Pokemon not named Alakazam or Jolteon, and provides it with one of the highest critical hit ratios. Starmie's movepool is also perfectly suited for it: in addition to STAB Surf, Hydro Pump, and Psychic, it also receives Blizzard and Thunderbolt, which make up the famous BoltBeam combination. In addition Furthermore, it learns Thunder Wave, one of the best moves in RBY.</p>

    <p>Starmie is often compared to Alakazam, as both are fast Psychics with Recover, but Starmie has some specific defensive uses due to its movepool, higher Defense, and secondary Water typing. It is a much better check to Clamp Cloyster and Jynx, as well as Golem and Rhydon; in exchange, it loses coverage against Gengar, Jolteon, and Zapdos, and the ability to stay in against Chansey. Lastly, it's also worth noting that Starmie has the highest defense stats for a Recover or Softboiled user in RBY, which often comes in handy when dealing with physical attackers such as Tauros.</p>

    [SET]

    name: Standard
    move 1: Blizzard
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Thunder Wave

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is by far the most common Starmie moveset due to its great versatility. Blizzard hits Exeggutor, Zapdos, Golem, and Rhydon for super effective damage, and is also the most powerful move of the set to deal with neutral targets, such as Normal- and Psychic-types. The 10% freeze chance is never a bad thing either, and might prove game-deciding in on one of the many times Chansey will likely switch into Starmie. Thunderbolt, meanwhile, deals super effective damage to Water-types such as Starmie, Lapras, Slowbro, and Cloyster, all of which resist Blizzard. Thunder Wave can act as a deterrent to physical or mixed attackers such as Tauros, Snorlax, Persian, and various Electric-types. Be careful, however, as Chansey will often switch into Starmie, and a paralyzed Chansey could become more problematic than an unparalyzed one. Still, Thunder Wave is a great move to have for defensive purposes.</p>

    <p>Thanks to its access to Recover and its typing, Starmie has multiple defensive uses. Like Alakazam, it can be a lead sleep absorber, as it can tank other moves from Exeggutor and Jynx, and also hit them before they can move. Blizzard can do heavy damage to Exeggutor and, with some luck—namely a critical hit or a few Sleep Powder misses—can put Starmie in a position where it can KO Exeggutor without being put to sleep. Starmie doesn't fare well against Gengar though, since Thunderbolt will 2HKO it.</p>

    <p>Starmie can also be saved for the battle in order to make use of its great defensive coverage. If a teammate has already been put to sleep, Starmie can neutralize Exeggutor, which will find itself forced to use Explosion in order to take Starmie out, —and even that will not OHKO a full-health Starmie. Mega Drain Exeggutor might have a chance to KO paralyzed Starmie, but Exeggutor never packs Stun Spore and Mega Drain in the same moveset, so this only applies if Starmie has been previously paralyzed. Jynx will also get worn down by Starmie eventually, and will only succeed if Blizzard freezes it before, which one can expect to happen around one-third of the time assuming Jynx started at full health. A paralyzed Starmie is usually a hard counter to Jynx, though, unless Jynx is packing Seismic Toss and gets very lucky with full paralysis.</p>

    <p>Starmie also makes an effective check to Golem and Rhydon, as it is able to switch into Earthquake and Recover off the damage while scaring them out with a super effective Blizzard. However, note that two high-roll Earthquakes from Rhydon will 2HKO Starmie, while Starmie can't OHKO in return without a Water-type attack. Meanwhile, Golem has a chance to OHKO Starmie with Explosion; Starmie won't like the occasional paralysis from Body Slam either.</p>

    <p>Starmie is the best Cloyster counter in the game, as it outspeeds Cloyster, 2HKOes it with Thunderbolt, resists Clamp and Blizzard, and even survives Explosion at full health. Cloyster can still immobilize Starmie to set up a switch-in without taking damage, however. Continuing with Water-type Pokemon, Starmie's high-critical-hit-ratio Thunderbolt is known for being a pain for Slowbro. However, Starmie is not a 100% Slowbro counter at all, as Slowbro can paralyze Starmie with Thunder Wave and sometimes get past it via boosted Surfs without suffering a deadly critical hit. Starmie also makes a decent Lapras check, as it is only 3HKOed by Lapras's Thunderbolt while being able to paralyze Lapras in return and deal around 33% damage to Lapras with its own Thunderbolt. Starmie can at least work as a pivot, so that another Pokemon, such as Chansey, can switch into a safe Thunderbolt. Lastly, Starmie can also switch into Alakazam to start a stall war, and it might even have the upper hand due to Blizzard's freeze chance. However, it won't like eating a Thunder Wave, while Alakazam might not care as much about being paralyzed in return.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>It should be noted that while Starmie loses the ability to check some of these Pokemon when it's paralyzed (for example, Cloyster and the Rock-types), checking some of the other Pokemon, such as Exeggutor and Slowbro, involve taking the risk of being hit by a paralysis move in the process, so you should decide which Pokemon are more important to check. In addition, a paralyzed Starmie loses much of its sweeping capability even after Chansey is gone, as well as the ability to potentially take on or switch into physical sweepers such as Tauros in a pinch with the same effectiveness.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Surf and Hydro Pump are STAB options that increase Starmie's power against neutral targets such as Normal-types, Alakazam, and Jynx. Surf, especially, makes Starmie an even better Golem and Rhydon check, as it will OHKO them. In order to use any of these two moves, you should choose between forgoing Thunder Wave's support or dropping Blizzard. Doing the latter means losing super effective coverage against Exeggutor. Starmie will still be able to wall it, but Exeggutor will now have plenty of time to paralyze Starmie, fish for Special falls, set up Explosion, or even replenish its health with Mega Drain as you while Starmie tries to stall it out with Recover. While Surf is the most consistent and common option, Hydro Pump can 2HKO Tauros and will 3HKO Snorlax and Alakazam. As an example, Surf increases Starmie's chances of beating Alakazam one-on-one, sometimes after Alakazam gets fully paralyzed twice in a row. Hydro Pump's fewer PP makes this more difficult, but its ability to 3HKO Alakazam might let Starmie beat a paralyzed one switching into a Hydro Pump after a critical hit or a full paralysis without taking a Thunder Wave in the process. Surf is commonly used over Blizzard while Hydro Pump is usually used along with BoltBeam for a more dedicated sweeper.</p>

    <p>Ice Beam is the general Ice-type alternative move to Blizzard, but it's generally an inferior choice on Starmie. Ice Beam's main selling point is its higher PP, which is useful for freeze wars, but Starmie can't stay in against Thunderbolt Chansey anyway. Although Ice Beam could actually be useful for Alakazam and Thunderbolt-less Chansey stall wars, Blizzard is usually Starmie's strongest move, so the inferior power will often be significant when using Ice Beam instead. Psychic is another attacking option sometimes used on Starmie leads to 2HKO Gengar. Psychic's ability to hit Victreebel super effectively is also noteworthy if you are planning to drop Blizzard for it. However, unlike Surf and Hydro Pump, Psychic only hits Alakazam, Jynx, and Hypno for resisted damage. Psychic's main disadvantage is arguably that it only 3HKOes Golem and Rhydon. Compared to Surf, Psychic has 5 less Base Power and 8 fewer PP, but boasts a 30% chance of scoring a Special fall. Hyper Beam is the only move in Starmie's movepool that might bother Chansey, and might come in handy against Alakazam as well. Hyper Beam does 35-41% to it, which means that Starmie could surprise a weakened (<50%) Chansey attempting to switch in on it. In addition, in desperate situations, a critical hit Hyper Beam can do up to 80% to Chansey and sometimes OHKO Alakazam. Hyper Beam is a very situational move though.</p>

    <p>Starmie can learn both Reflect and Light Screen, but neither is particularly useful on it. Light Screen won't prevent Chansey from countering Starmie, although it can help against Slowbro. Regarding Reflect, Starmie is going to be met with Chansey (or Alakazam) almost every time it comes in. Even if the opposing physical attacker stays in, you should probably just attack, because once you set up Reflect, your opponent will go straight away to Chansey, so you have likely just exchanged half a Body Slam, with its 30% paralysis chance, for 0 damage in return. Reflect is only useful when the opponent is only left with physical sweepers, when it could admittedly make a difference.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chansey is by far the safest Starmie counter, as it takes pitiful damage from Starmie's attacks and threatens Starmie with paralysis and a likely-to-2HKO Thunderbolt, and can even use Softboiled whenever necessary. Chansey only has to worry about Blizzard's 10% freeze chance (only 9% factoring in accuracy) as it switches in, but if Chansey is paralyzed, Starmie becomes completely worthless against it: Chansey can simply paralyze Starmie and fire off Thunderbolt until Starmie gets fully paralyzed or Chansey scores a winning critical hit. Alakazam can generally shrug off Starmie's attacks with Recover, but a Starmie packing Surf might be more problematic. Alakazam is also susceptible to being frozen but the threat of paralysis is generally enough to scare Starmie away; Starmie can't handle Alakazam's Seismic Tosses well either.</p>

    <p>The two Electric-types, Zapdos and Jolteon, can abuse Starmie's weakness to Electric-type attacks with their STAB Thunderbolts. Jolteon is generally a better Starmie check than Zapdos, as it can outspeed Starmie and isn't weak to Blizzard. Neither of the two will enjoy being paralyzed by Thunder Wave though. Victreebel and Venusaur can hit Starmie super effectively with STAB Razor Leaf, but Starmie also hits them for super effective damage in return with Blizzard or Psychic, and Starmie is faster than both of the two Grass-types.</p>

    <p>Paralysis provides a great way to weaken Starmie and make it less effective, both offensively and defensively. Stun Spore Exeggutor and Thunder Wave Slowbro will sometimes end up hitting Starmie, while Body Slams might paralyze it as well, depending on which Pokemon your opponent sends Starmie into. Exploding on Starmie with Exeggutor or Snorlax can work in a pinch, while Cloyster and Golem can sometimes lure Starmie in and Explode on it in the switch in, but this is riskier.</p>
  2. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Overview:
    It's more Starmie's movepool and higher Defense that gives it niches Alakazam can't fill. However, that water typing and resultant Tbolt weakness is the main source of the poorer matchups listed.

    Set comments
    Stoss Jynx can be a bit of a bother for para'd Starmie.

    Note:
    I feel like Surf should at least make it into AC, if not a slash altogether (although I feel like Hip would object to a slash, since BoltBeam is the old standard). I know Blizz gets comparable power, but the 100% accuracy and ~17% power boost are very nice when you have to go toe-to-toe against a Snorlax (especially a ReflectLax) or Tauros, and of course the power and PP are necessary to really stick it to Alakazam. However, the other STABs definitely belong in OO since they're a lot more situational - HPump doesn't give you reliable PP or accuracy, whereas Psychic gives up Zam and Rocks for... Gengar, who is crippled by Twave anyway. It's just Surf that I think deserves a little more attention.

    Other Options:
    Not a Thunderbolt Chansey, anyway. Also, "stay in against". "Into" implies movement.

    FIN
    Other than my piffling objections above I'd say the content is pretty good.
    [​IMG]
    (I guess I can use this even though I'm only on the old-gen task force?)
    APPROVED 1/2

    P.S. (open)
    There's currently a lot of stuff that would rustle GP's jimmies, and while they'd likely catch it, it's nice to make life easier and make sure things don't slip through the cracks. Things such as:

    • using the word "like" to list examples when "such as" is preferred
    • using weird words such as "determinant" and "efficacy". The former is usually a noun, the latter is rarely used outside of a medical or pharmacologic context.
    • typos. And not just stuff your word processor would catch, such as using "later" in place of "latter".
    • ending contrasting clauses with "though" or "however" when beginning these clauses with "however" or "although" is preferred, with only the former being acceptable if the contrast is with something in a previous sentence. Example:
      is better phrased as
      or
      Note that "however" adds more emphasis to your contrasting point whereas "although" weakens it.
    Also I would hold off on adding "+Hip" to the title until Hipmonlee actually approves these. Until then you can add something like "WAITING FOR HIP" to make it clear that it still needs Hipmonlee approval. As it stands, adding "+Hip" actually conveys the opposite.
  3. Hipmonlee

    Hipmonlee Have a rice day
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    I think you need to make it clearer that Starmie survives Exeggutor's explosion. This is a pretty key piece of information for dealing with Eggy.

    When Gengar faces lead Starmie it often is too concerned about the possibility of psychic to stay in. You might also mention that psychic is mostly used in the lead position.
  4. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    yeah, maybe... holding off for now

    had this already: Psychic is another attacking option sometimes used in Starmie leads to 2HKO Gengar.

    Jesus I hate english. Going to work on this in my next edit. EDIT: I did what I could on this

    Done everything else
  5. Hipmonlee

    Hipmonlee Have a rice day
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  6. M Dragon

    M Dragon The north wind
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    I never really liked Starmie w/o Surf in RBY though.

    I approve
  7. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    Since I mentioned both screens in OO, I felt like include Hyper Beam in that section too. While screens are basically useless, Hyper Beam reaches "usable" status imo.
  8. NixHex

    NixHex A new vice president erryonce in a while to keep me busy
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    diff (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Having access to Recover and being a Psychic-type are both often synoniyms of succeedss in RBY, and with. Starmie this is not an exception, shining in the oldest generation as one of the best defensive Pokemon, while still posing a threat offensively when Chansey is gone. ButStill, Starmie has even more things going for it. Its great sSpeed lets Starmie outspeed every OU Pokemon not named Alakazam or Jolteon, and provides it with one of the highest critical- hit ratios. Starmie's movepool is perfectly suited for it, being able to learn Blizzard and Thunderbolt, which make up for the famous boltbBoltBeam combination, while getting STAB on Surf, Hydro Pump, and Psychic. In addition, Starmie's movepool also contains Thunder Wave, one of the best moves in RBY. Starmie is often compared to Alakazam as the fast, Psychic-type rRecoverer, but due to its movepool, higher defense, and secondary Water-type, Starmie gains some specific defensive uses, being. It is a much better check for Clamp Cloyster, Jynx, and Golem and Rhydon, while losing coverage against Gengar, Jolteon, and Zapdos and not being able to stay into Chansey if wanted. Lastly, it's also worth noting that Starmie has the highest defense stats for a Recover or Softboiled user in RBY, which often comes in handy when dealing with physical attackers such as Tauros.</p>

    [SET]

    Nname: Standard
    Mmove 1: Blizzard
    Mmove 2: Thunderbolt
    Mmove 3: Recover
    Mmove 4: Thunder Wave

    [Set commentsET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is by far the most common Starmie moveset due to the versatility it provides. Blizzard hits Exeggutor, Golem, and Rhydon, and Zapdos for super-effective damage while being the most powerful move of the set to deal with neutral targets such as Normal-types and Psychic-types. The 10% freeze chance is never a bad thing either, and might be determinant in one of the many times Chansey will switch into Starmie. Thunderbolt, meanwhile, deals super- effective damage to Water-types such as Starmie, Lapras, Slowbro, and Cloyster, all of which resist Blizzard. Thunder Wave can act as a deterrent to physical or mixed attackers such as Tauros, Snorlax, Persian, or Electric-types. You must be careful, however,; Chansey will often switch into Starmie, and a paralyzed Chansey could become more problematic than an unparalyzed one. Still, Thunder Wave is a great move to have for defensive purposes.</p>

    <p>Thanks to Recover and its typing, Starmie gets multiple defensive uses. Like Alakazam, it can work as the sleep absorber in the lead position, being able to tank Exeggutor's and Jynx's other moves, and being able to hit them before they move. Blizzard can do heavy damage to Exeggutor, and, with some luck, may put Starmie in a position where it can KO Exeggutor in the next hit without being put to sleep. Starmie doesn't fare well against Gengar though, since Thunderbolt will 2HKO it. Starmie can also be saved for the battle in order to make use of its great defensive coveragae. As said before, if sleep has already been thrown, Starmie can neutralize Exeggutor, which will find itself forced to explode in order to take Starmie out, although Explosion fails to OHKO a full health Starmie. Mega Drain Exeggutor might have a chance to KO a paralyzed Starmie without Explosion though, but Exeggutor never packs Stun Spore and Mega Drain in the same moveset so this only applies if Starmie has been paralyzed with another Pokemon before. Jynx will also get worn down to Starmie eventually, and will only succeed if Blizzard freezes it before, which will happen around one third of the times assuming Jynx started at full health. A paralyzed Starmie usually hard walls Jynx though, unless Jynx is packing Seismic Toss and gets very lucky with Fully Pfull paralysis.</p>

    <p>Starmie also makes an effective check to Golem and Rhydon, being able to switch into Earthquake and recover off the damage as Starmie scares them out with a super- effective Blizzard. You must be careful however, as two high-roll Earthquakes from Rhydon will 2HKO Starmie, which can't OHKO Rhydon without a Water-type attack, while Golem has a chance to OHKO Starmie with Explosion. Starmie won't like the occasional paralysis from Body Slam either. Starmie is the best Cloyster counter in the game, outspeeding it, resisting Clamp and Blizzard, 2HKOing it with Thunderbolt, and even surviving its Explosion at full health. Cloyster can still inmovmmobilize Starmie to set up a switch-in without taking damage, however. Starmie's high critical hit ratio Thunderbolt is known for being a pain for Slowbro. However, Starmie is not a 100% Slowbro counter at all, as Slowbro can paralyze Starmie with Thunder Wave, and sometimes get past it via boosted Surfs without suffering a deadly critical hit. Continuing with Water-type Pokemon, Starmie also makes a decent Lapras check, being 3HKOed by its Thunderbolt while being able to paralyze Lapras in return and deal around 33% damage to Lapras with its Thunderbolt. Starmie can at least work as a pivot, so that another Pokemon like Chansey can switch into a safe Thunderbolt. Lastly, Starmie can also switch into Alakazam to start a stall war, and it might even have the upper hand due to Blizzard's freeze chance, but it won't like eating a Thunder Wave, while Alakazam may not care as much about being paralyzed in return.</p>

    [Additional CommentsDDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>It should be noted that while Starmie loses the ability to check some of these Pokemon when it's paralyzed (for example, Cloyster and the Rock-types), checking some of the other Pokemon, such as Exeggutor and Slowbro, involve taking the risk of eating a paralysis move in the process, so you should decide which Pokemon are more important to check. In addition, a paralyzed Starmie loses a lot of its sweeping capabilities when Chansey is gone, as well as the ability to potentially take on or switch into physical sweepers such as Tauros in a pinch with the same effectiveness.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Surf and Hydro Pump are STAB options that increase Starmie's power against neutral targets such as Normal-types, Alakazam, and Jynx. Surf, especially, makes Starmie an even better Golem and Rhydon check, as it will OHKO them. In order to use any of these two moves, you should choose between forgoing Thunder Wave's support or dropping Blizzard. Doing the latter means losing the super- effective coverage against Exeggutor. Starmie will still be able to wall it, but Exeggutor will now have plenty of time to paralyze you, fish for special falls, set up Explosion, or even replenish its health with Mega Drain as you try to stall it with Recover. Surf is the most consistent and common option, while Hydro Pump can 2HKO Tauros and will 3HKO Snorlax and Alakazam. As an example, Surf increases Starmie's chances of beating Alakazam 1 on 1one on one, sometimes after Alakazam gets fully paralyzed twice in a row. Hydro Pump's fewer PP makes this more difficult, but its ability to 3HKO Alakazam may let Starmie beat a paralyzed Alakazamone switching into an Hydro Pump after a critical hit or a full paralysis and without taking a Thunder Wave in the process. Surf is commonly used over Blizzard while Hydro Pump is usually used along with boltbBoltBeam for a more dedicated sweeper.</p>

    <p>Ice Beam is the general Ice-type alternative move to Blizzard, but it's generally an inferior choice on Starmie. Ice Beam's main selling point is the higher amount of PP, useful for freeze wars, but Starmie can't stay in against Thunderbolt Chansey anyway. Although Ice Beam could actually be useful for Alakazam and Thunderbolt-less Chansey stall wars, Blizzard is usually Starmie's strongest move, so the inferior power will often be significant when using Ice Beam instead. Psychic is another attacking option sometimes used in Starmie leads to 2HKO Gengar. Psychic's ability to hit Victreebel super- effectively is also noteworthy if you are planning to drop Blizzard for it. UHowever, unlike Surf and Hydro Pump however, Psychic only hits Alakazam, Jynx, and Hypno for not very effectiveresisted damage. But aArguably its main disadvantage is that Psychic only 3HKOes Golem and Rhydon. Compared to Surf, Psychic has 5 less Base Power and 8 fewer PP, but boasts a 30% chance of scoring a Special Ffall. Hyper Beam is they only move in Starmie's movepool that might bother Chansey, and may come in handy against Alakazam as well. Hyper Beam does 35-41% to it, which means that Starmie could be able to surprise a below ~50% Chansey attempting to switch-in. In addition, in desesperate situations, Hyper Beam can do up to 80% to Chansey with a Ccritical Hhit and sometimes OHKO Alakazam. Starmie can learn both Reflect and Light Screen but noneeither is especiarticularly useful on it. Light Screen won't prevent Chansey from countering Starmie although it can help against Slowbro. Regarding Reflect, Starmie is going to see Chansey (or Alakazam) almost everytime, and in the case the physical attacker stays in, you should probably just attack, because once you Reflect up, your opponent will go straight away to Chansey, so you have likely just exchanged half a Body Slam with its 30% paralysis chance for 0 damage in return. Reflect is only useful when the opponent is only left with physical sweepers, but it could make a difference then, however.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chansey is by far the safest Starmie counter, taking pitiful damage from its attacks and threatening Starmie with paralysis and a likely-to-2HKO Thunderbolt, while using Softboiled whenever necessary. Chansey only has to worry about Blizzard's 10% freeze chance (only 9% factoring in accuracy) as it switches in, but if Chansey is paralyzed Starmie becomes completely worthless against it. Chansey can simply paralyze Starmie and Thunderbolt away until Starmie gets fully paralyzed or Chansey scores a winning Ccritical Hhit. Alakazam can generally shrug off Starmies attacks with Recover, although a Starmie packing Surf may be more problematic. Alakazam is also susceptible to being frozen, but, either way, the threat of paralysis is generally enough to scare Starmie away. Starmie can't handle Alakazam's Seismic Tosses well either. The two Electric-types, Zapdos and Jolteon, can abuse Starmie's weakness to Electric-type attacks with their STAB Thunderbolts. Jolteon is generally a better Starmie check than Zapdos, as it can outspeed Starmie and isn't weak to Blizzard. Neither of the two will enjoy being paralyzed with Thunder Wave though. Victreebel and Venusaur can hit Starmie super-effectively with their STAB Razor Leaf, but Starmie also hits them for super- effective damage in return with Blizzard or Psychic, and Starmie is faster than the two Grass-types.</p>

    <p>Paralysis makprovides a great way to weaken Starmie and make it less effective, both offensively and defensively. Stun Spore Exeggutor and Thunder Wave Slowbro will sometimes end up hitting Starmie, while Body Slams may paralyze it as well, depending againston which Pokemon your opponent sends Starmie into. Exploding on Starmie with Exeggutor or Snorlax can work in a pinch, and Cloyster and Golem can sometimes lure Starmie in and explode on it in the switch- in, albeit this is riskier.</p>


    copypasta (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Having access to Recover and being a Psychic-type are both often synonyms of success in RBY. Starmie is no exception, shining in the oldest generation as one of the best defensive Pokemon, while still posing a threat offensively when Chansey is gone. Still, Starmie has even more things going for it. Its great Speed lets Starmie outspeed every OU Pokemon not named Alakazam or Jolteon, and provides it with one of the highest critical hit ratios. Starmie's movepool is perfectly suited for it, being able to learn Blizzard and Thunderbolt, which make up the famous BoltBeam combination, while getting STAB on Surf, Hydro Pump, and Psychic. In addition, Starmie's movepool also contains Thunder Wave, one of the best moves in RBY. Starmie is often compared to Alakazam as the fast, Psychic-type Recoverer, but due to its movepool, higher defense, and secondary Water-type, Starmie gains some specific defensive uses. It is a much better check for Clamp Cloyster, Jynx, and Golem and Rhydon, while losing coverage against Gengar, Jolteon, and Zapdos and not being able to stay into Chansey if wanted. Lastly, it's also worth noting that Starmie has the highest defense stats for a Recover or Softboiled user in RBY, which often comes in handy when dealing with physical attackers such as Tauros.</p>

    [SET]

    name: Standard
    move 1: Blizzard
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Thunder Wave

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is by far the most common Starmie moveset due to the versatility it provides. Blizzard hits Exeggutor, Golem and Rhydon, and Zapdos for super-effective damage while being the most powerful move of the set to deal with neutral targets such as Normal-types and Psychic-types. The 10% freeze chance is never a bad thing either, and might be determinant in one of the many times Chansey will switch into Starmie. Thunderbolt, meanwhile, deals super effective damage to Water-types such as Starmie, Lapras, Slowbro, and Cloyster, all of which resist Blizzard. Thunder Wave can act as a deterrent to physical or mixed attackers such as Tauros, Snorlax, Persian, or Electric-types. You must be careful, however; Chansey will often switch into Starmie, and a paralyzed Chansey could become more problematic than an unparalyzed one. Still, Thunder Wave is a great move to have for defensive purposes.</p>

    <p>Thanks to Recover and its typing, Starmie gets multiple defensive uses. Like Alakazam, it can work as the sleep absorber in the lead position, being able to tank Exeggutor's and Jynx's other moves, and being able to hit them before they move. Blizzard can do heavy damage to Exeggutor and, with some luck, may put Starmie in a position where it can KO Exeggutor in the next hit without being put to sleep. Starmie doesn't fare well against Gengar though, since Thunderbolt will 2HKO it. Starmie can also be saved for the battle in order to make use of its great defensive coverage. As said before, if sleep has already been thrown, Starmie can neutralize Exeggutor, which will find itself forced to explode in order to take Starmie out, although Explosion fails to OHKO a full health Starmie. Mega Drain Exeggutor might have a chance to KO a paralyzed Starmie without Explosion though, but Exeggutor never packs Stun Spore and Mega Drain in the same moveset so this only applies if Starmie has been paralyzed with another Pokemon before. Jynx will also get worn down to Starmie eventually, and will only succeed if Blizzard freezes it before, which will happen around one third of the time assuming Jynx started at full health. A paralyzed Starmie usually hard walls Jynx though, unless Jynx is packing Seismic Toss and gets very lucky with full paralysis.</p>

    <p>Starmie also makes an effective check to Golem and Rhydon, being able to switch into Earthquake and recover off the damage as Starmie scares them out with a super effective Blizzard. You must be careful however, as two high-roll Earthquakes from Rhydon will 2HKO Starmie, which can't OHKO Rhydon without a Water-type attack, while Golem has a chance to OHKO Starmie with Explosion. Starmie won't like the occasional paralysis from Body Slam either. Starmie is the best Cloyster counter in the game, outspeeding it, resisting Clamp and Blizzard, 2HKOing it with Thunderbolt, and even surviving its Explosion at full health. Cloyster can still immobilize Starmie to set up a switch-in without taking damage, however. Starmie's high critical hit ratio Thunderbolt is known for being a pain for Slowbro. However, Starmie is not a 100% Slowbro counter at all, as Slowbro can paralyze Starmie with Thunder Wave and sometimes get past it via boosted Surfs without suffering a deadly critical hit. Continuing with Water-type Pokemon, Starmie also makes a decent Lapras check, being 3HKOed by its Thunderbolt while being able to paralyze Lapras in return and deal around 33% damage to Lapras with its Thunderbolt. Starmie can at least work as a pivot, so that another Pokemon like Chansey can switch into a safe Thunderbolt. Lastly, Starmie can also switch into Alakazam to start a stall war, and it might even have the upper hand due to Blizzard's freeze chance, but it won't like eating a Thunder Wave, while Alakazam may not care as much about being paralyzed in return.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>It should be noted that while Starmie loses the ability to check some of these Pokemon when it's paralyzed (for example, Cloyster and the Rock-types), checking some of the other Pokemon, such as Exeggutor and Slowbro, involve taking the risk of eating a paralysis move in the process, so you should decide which Pokemon are more important to check. In addition, a paralyzed Starmie loses a lot of its sweeping capabilities when Chansey is gone, as well as the ability to potentially take on or switch into physical sweepers such as Tauros in a pinch with the same effectiveness.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Surf and Hydro Pump are STAB options that increase Starmie's power against neutral targets such as Normal-types, Alakazam, and Jynx. Surf, especially, makes Starmie an even better Golem and Rhydon check, as it will OHKO them. In order to use any of these two moves, you should choose between forgoing Thunder Wave's support or dropping Blizzard. Doing the latter means losing the super effective coverage against Exeggutor. Starmie will still be able to wall it, but Exeggutor will now have plenty of time to paralyze you, fish for special falls, set up Explosion, or even replenish its health with Mega Drain as you try to stall it with Recover. Surf is the most consistent and common option, while Hydro Pump can 2HKO Tauros and will 3HKO Snorlax and Alakazam. As an example, Surf increases Starmie's chances of beating Alakazam one on one, sometimes after Alakazam gets fully paralyzed twice in a row. Hydro Pump's fewer PP makes this more difficult, but its ability to 3HKO Alakazam may let Starmie beat a paralyzed one switching into a Hydro Pump after a critical hit or a full paralysis and without taking a Thunder Wave in the process. Surf is commonly used over Blizzard while Hydro Pump is usually used along with BoltBeam for a more dedicated sweeper.</p>

    <p>Ice Beam is the general Ice-type alternative move to Blizzard, but it's generally an inferior choice on Starmie. Ice Beam's main selling point is the higher amount of PP, useful for freeze wars, but Starmie can't stay in against Thunderbolt Chansey anyway. Although Ice Beam could actually be useful for Alakazam and Thunderbolt-less Chansey stall wars, Blizzard is usually Starmie's strongest move, so the inferior power will often be significant when using Ice Beam instead. Psychic is another attacking option sometimes used in Starmie leads to 2HKO Gengar. Psychic's ability to hit Victreebel super effectively is also noteworthy if you are planning to drop Blizzard for it. However, unlike Surf and Hydro Pump, Psychic only hits Alakazam, Jynx, and Hypno for resisted damage. Arguably its main disadvantage is that Psychic only 3HKOes Golem and Rhydon. Compared to Surf, Psychic has 5 less Base Power and 8 fewer PP, but boasts a 30% chance of scoring a Special fall. Hyper Beam is the only move in Starmie's movepool that might bother Chansey, and may come in handy against Alakazam as well. Hyper Beam does 35-41% to it, which means that Starmie could be able to surprise a below ~50% Chansey attempting to switch-in. In addition, in desperate situations, Hyper Beam can do up to 80% to Chansey with a critical hit and sometimes OHKO Alakazam. Starmie can learn both Reflect and Light Screen but neither is particularly useful on it. Light Screen won't prevent Chansey from countering Starmie although it can help against Slowbro. Regarding Reflect, Starmie is going to see Chansey (or Alakazam) almost everytime, and in the case the physical attacker stays in, you should probably just attack, because once you Reflect up, your opponent will go straight away to Chansey, so you have likely just exchanged half a Body Slam with its 30% paralysis chance for 0 damage in return. Reflect is only useful when the opponent is only left with physical sweepers, but it could make a difference then, however.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chansey is by far the safest Starmie counter, taking pitiful damage from its attacks and threatening Starmie with paralysis and a likely-to-2HKO Thunderbolt, while using Softboiled whenever necessary. Chansey only has to worry about Blizzard's 10% freeze chance (only 9% factoring in accuracy) as it switches in, but if Chansey is paralyzed Starmie becomes completely worthless against it. Chansey can simply paralyze Starmie and Thunderbolt away until Starmie gets fully paralyzed or Chansey scores a winning critical hit. Alakazam can generally shrug off Starmies attacks with Recover, although a Starmie packing Surf may be more problematic. Alakazam is also susceptible to being frozen but, either way, the threat of paralysis is generally enough to scare Starmie away. Starmie can't handle Alakazam's Seismic Tosses well either. The two Electric-types, Zapdos and Jolteon, can abuse Starmie's weakness to Electric-type attacks with their STAB Thunderbolts. Jolteon is generally a better Starmie check than Zapdos, as it can outspeed Starmie and isn't weak to Blizzard. Neither of the two will enjoy being paralyzed with Thunder Wave though. Victreebel and Venusaur can hit Starmie super-effectively with their STAB Razor Leaf, but Starmie also hits them for super effective damage in return with Blizzard or Psychic, and Starmie is faster than the two Grass-types.</p>

    <p>Paralysis provides a great way to weaken Starmie and make it less effective, both offensively and defensively. Stun Spore Exeggutor and Thunder Wave Slowbro will sometimes end up hitting Starmie, while Body Slams may paralyze it as well, depending on which Pokemon your opponent sends Starmie into. Exploding on Starmie with Exeggutor or Snorlax can work in a pinch, and Cloyster and Golem can sometimes lure Starmie in and explode on it in the switch in, albeit this is riskier.</p>

    Good job! Keep these old gen analyses coming, they're very fun to read.
    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  9. Crystal_

    Crystal_
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Winner

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    Thanks for the GP check! Better late than never :P
  10. sirndpt

    sirndpt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Having Access to Recover and being a Psychic-type a Psychic typing are both often synonyms of success in RBY. Starmie is no exception, shining in the oldest generation as one of the best defensive Pokemon, while still posing a threat offensively when Chansey is gone. Still, Starmie has even more things going for it. Its Starmie's great Speed lets Starmie it outspeed every OU Pokemon not named Alakazam or Jolteon, and provides it with one of the highest critical hit ratios. Starmie's movepool is perfectly suited for it, being able to learn Blizzard and Thunderbolt, which make up the famous BoltBeam combination, while getting STAB on Surf, Hydro Pump, and Psychic. Starmie's movepool is also perfectly suited for it: in addition to STAB Surf, Hydro Pump, and Psychic, it also receives Blizzard and Thunderbolt, which make up the famous BoltBeam combination. In addition Furthermore, Starmie's movepool also contains it learns Thunder Wave, one of the best moves in RBY.</p>

    <p>
    Starmie is often compared to Alakazam, as the fast, Psychic-type Recoverer both are fast Psychics with Recover, but Starmie has some specific defensive uses due to its movepool, higher Defense, and secondary Water-type Water typing, Starmie gains some specific defensive uses. It is a much better check for to Clamp Cloyster, and Jynx, and as well as Golem and Rhydon; while in exchange, it losing loses coverage against Gengar, Jolteon, and Zapdos, and not being able the ability to stay in againstto Chansey if wanted. Lastly, it's also worth noting that Starmie has the highest defensive stats for a Recover or Softboiled user in RBY, which often comes in handy when dealing with physical attackers such as Tauros.</p>

    [SET]
    <remove paragraph>
    name: Standard
    move 1: Blizzard
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Thunder Wave

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is by far the most common Starmie moveset due to the its great versatility it provides. Blizzard hits Exeggutor, Zapdos, Golem, and Rhydon, and Zapdos for super effective damage, while being and is also the most powerful move of the set to deal with neutral targets, such as Normal-types and Psychic-types. The 10% freeze chance is never a bad thing either, and might might be determinant prove game-deciding in on one of the many times Chansey will likely switch into Starmie. Thunderbolt, meanwhile, deals super effective damage to Water-types such as Starmie, Lapras, Slowbro, and Cloyster, all of which resist Blizzard. Thunder Wave can act as a deterrent to physical or mixed attackers such as Tauros, Snorlax, Persian, or and various Electric-types. You must Be careful, however, as Chansey will often switch into Starmie, and a paralyzed Chansey could become more problematic than an unparalyzed one. Still, Thunder Wave is a great move to have for defensive purposes.</p>

    <p>Thanks to its access to Recover and its typing, Starmie gets has multiple defensive uses. Like Alakazam, it can work as the sleep absorber in the lead position be a lead sleep absorber, being able to tank Exeggutor's and Jynx's other moves as it can tank other moves from Exeggutor and Jynx, and being able to also hit them before they can move. Blizzard can do heavy damage to Exeggutor and, with some luck, may can put Starmie in a position where it can KO Exeggutor in the next hit without being put to sleep (is there a simpler way of saying this? i'm not quite sure i get what you mean, tbh, or i would take a stab at rephrasing it myself). Starmie doesn't fare well against Gengar though, since Thunderbolt will 2HKO it.</p>

    <p>
    Starmie can also be saved for the battle in order to make use of its great defensive coverage. As said before, if sleep has already been thrown If a teammate has already been put to sleep, Starmie can neutralize Exeggutor, which will find itself forced to explode use Explosion in order to take Starmie out, although Explosion fails to —and even that will not OHKO a full-health Starmie. Mega Drain Exeggutor might have a chance to KO a paralyzed Starmie without Explosion though, but Exeggutor never packs Stun Spore and Mega Drain in the same moveset, so this only applies if Starmie has been previously paralyzed with another Pokemon before. Jynx will also get worn down to by Starmie eventually, and will only succeed if Blizzard freezes it before, which will one can expect to happen around one-third of the time assuming Jynx started at full health. A paralyzed Starmie is usually a hard walls counter to Jynx, though, unless Jynx is packing Seismic Toss and gets very lucky with full paralysis.</p>

    <p>Starmie also makes an effective check to Golem and Rhydon, being as it is able to switch into Earthquake and Recover off the damage as Starmie scares while scaring them out with a super effective Blizzard. You must be careful However, as note that two high-roll Earthquakes from Rhydon will 2HKO Starmie, which while Starmie can't OHKO Rhydon in return without a Water-type attack. Meanwhile, Golem has a chance to OHKO Starmie with Explosion; Starmie won't like the occasional paralysis from Body Slam either.</p>

    <p>
    Starmie is the best Cloyster counter in the game, outspeeding it as it outspeeds Cloyster, 2HKOes it with Thunderbolt, resisting resists Clamp and Blizzard, 2HKOing it with Thunderbolt, and even surviving survives its Explosion at full health. Cloyster can still immobilize Starmie to set up a switch-in without taking damage, however. Continuing with Water-type Pokemon, Starmie's high-critical-hit-ratio Thunderbolt is known for being a pain for Slowbro. However, Starmie is not a 100% Slowbro counter at all, as Slowbro can paralyze Starmie with Thunder Wave and sometimes get past it via boosted Surfs without suffering a deadly critical hit. Continuing with Water-type Pokemon, Starmie also makes a decent Lapras check, being as it is only 3HKOed by it Lapras's Thunderbolt while being able to paralyze Lapras in return and deal around 33% damage to Lapras with its own Thunderbolt. Starmie can at least work as a pivot, so that another Pokemon, like such as Chansey, can switch into a safe Thunderbolt. Lastly, Starmie can also switch into Alakazam to start a stall war, and it might even have the upper hand due to Blizzard's freeze chance. However, but it won't like eating a Thunder Wave, while Alakazam may might not care as much about being paralyzed in return.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>It should be noted that while Starmie loses the ability to check some of these Pokemon when it's paralyzed (for example, Cloyster and the Rock-types), checking some of the other Pokemon, such as Exeggutor and Slowbro, involve taking the risk of eating being hit by a paralysis move in the process, so you should decide which Pokemon are more important to check. In addition, a paralyzed Starmie loses a lot much of its sweeping capabilities capability when even after Chansey is gone, as well as the ability to potentially take on or switch into physical sweepers such as Tauros in a pinch with the same effectiveness.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Surf and Hydro Pump are STAB options that increase Starmie's power against neutral targets such as Normal-types, Alakazam, and Jynx. Surf, especially, makes Starmie an even better Golem and Rhydon check, as it will OHKO them. In order to use any of these two moves, you should choose between forgoing Thunder Wave's support or dropping Blizzard. Doing the latter means losing the super effective coverage against Exeggutor. Starmie will still be able to wall it, but Exeggutor will now have plenty of time to paralyze you Starmie, fish for Special falls, set up Explosion, or even replenish its health with Mega Drain as you while Starmie try tries to stall it out with Recover. While Surf is the most consistent and common option, while Hydro Pump can 2HKO Tauros and will 3HKO Snorlax and Alakazam. As an example, Surf increases Starmie's chances of beating Alakazam one-on-one, sometimes after Alakazam gets fully paralyzed twice in a row. Hydro Pump's fewer PP makes this more difficult, but its ability to 3HKO Alakazam may might let Starmie beat a paralyzed one switching into a Hydro Pump after a critical hit or a full paralysis and without taking a Thunder Wave in the process. Surf is commonly used over Blizzard while Hydro Pump is usually used along with BoltBeam for a more dedicated sweeper.</p>

    <p>Ice Beam is the general Ice-type alternative move to Blizzard, but it's generally an inferior choice on Starmie. Ice Beam's main selling point is the its higher amount of PP, which is useful for freeze wars, but Starmie can't stay in against Thunderbolt Chansey anyway. Although Ice Beam could actually be useful for Alakazam and Thunderbolt-less Chansey stall wars, Blizzard is usually Starmie's strongest move, so the inferior power will often be significant when using Ice Beam instead. Psychic is another attacking option sometimes used in on Starmie leads to 2HKO Gengar. Psychic's ability to hit Victreebel super effectively is also noteworthy if you are planning to drop Blizzard for it. However, unlike Surf and Hydro Pump, Psychic only hits Alakazam, Jynx, and Hypno for resisted damage (has greater neutral coverage?). Arguably its Psychic's main disadvantage is arguably that Psychic it only 3HKOes Golem and Rhydon. Compared to Surf, Psychic has 5 less Base Power and 8 fewer PP, but boasts a 30% chance of scoring a Special fall. Hyper Beam is the only move in Starmie's movepool that might bother Chansey, and may might come in handy against Alakazam as well. Hyper Beam does 35-41% to it, which means that Starmie could be able to surprise a below ~50% weakened (<50%) Chansey attempting to switch in on it. In addition, in desperate situations, a critical hit Hyper Beam can do up to 80% to Chansey with a critical hit and sometimes OHKO Alakazam. Hyper Beam is a very situational move though.</p>

    <p>
    Starmie can learn both Reflect and Light Screen, but neither is particularly useful on it. Light Screen won't prevent Chansey from countering Starmie, although it can help against Slowbro. Regarding Reflect, Starmie is going to see be met with Chansey (or Alakazam) almost every time it comes in. and in the case Even if the opposing physical attacker stays in, you should probably just attack, because once you set up Reflect up, your opponent will go straight away to Chansey, so you have likely just exchanged half a Body Slam, with its 30% paralysis chance, for 0 damage in return. Reflect is only useful when the opponent is only left with physical sweepers, but when it could admittedly make a difference then, however.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chansey is by far the safest Starmie counter, taking as it takes pitiful damage from its Starmie's attacks and threatening threatens Starmie with paralysis and a likely-to-2HKO Thunderbolt, while and can evenusing use Softboiled whenever necessary. Chansey only has to worry about Blizzard's 10% freeze chance (only 9% factoring in accuracy) as it switches in, but if Chansey is paralyzed, Starmie becomes completely worthless against it: Chansey can simply paralyze Starmie and Thunderbolt away fire off Thunderbolt until Starmie gets fully paralyzed or Chansey scores a winning critical hit. Alakazam can generally shrug off Starmie's attacks with Recover, although but a Starmie packing Surf may might be more problematic. Alakazam is also susceptible to being frozen but, either way, the threat of paralysis is generally enough to scare Starmie away; Starmie can't handle Alakazam's Seismic Tosses well either.</p>

    <p>
    The two Electric-types, Zapdos and Jolteon, can abuse Starmie's weakness to Electric-type attacks with their STAB Thunderbolts. Jolteon is generally a better Starmie check than Zapdos, as it can outspeed Starmie and isn't weak to Blizzard. Neither of the two will enjoy being paralyzed with by Thunder Wave though. Victreebel and Venusaur can hit Starmie super effectively with their STAB Razor Leaf, but Starmie also hits them for super effective damage in return with Blizzard or Psychic, and Starmie is faster than both of the two Grass-types.</p>

    <p>Paralysis provides a great way to weaken Starmie and make it less effective, both offensively and defensively. Stun Spore Exeggutor and Thunder Wave Slowbro will sometimes end up hitting Starmie, while Body Slams may might paralyze it as well, depending on which Pokemon your opponent sends Starmie into. Exploding on Starmie with Exeggutor or Snorlax can work in a pinch, and while Cloyster and Golem can sometimes lure Starmie in and Explode on it in the switch in, albeit but this is riskier.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  11. Crystal_

    Crystal_
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Winner

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    what it means is that if starmie gets lucky (say, a crit and/or 1 or 2 sleep powder misses), exeggutor could end up being put in a position where it will be koed by another blizzard, as blizzard deals around 38% to exeggutor. This is removeable i guess, though.

    AC:
    A full health paralysed starmie can still afford to switch into Tauros' body slam, and will probably scare tauros out with twave as long as body slam didn't crit. It's obviously a lot riskier, but i feel that the "with the same effectiveness" shouldn't be removed.

    This is a bit too general imo, i actually like it more with the explicit examples.


    EDIT: Could you please unquote your check, sirndpt? I think that is the reason why when I try to c/p it the format disappears.
  12. sirndpt

    sirndpt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    okay, gotcha on the other two

    how's that?
  13. Crystal_

    Crystal_
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Winner

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    Okay, check implemented, this is ready to go. Thanks for the GP check sirndpt!
  14. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Ruiner of Alph

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