Actually, I totally agree with that logic. Slowbro would be fantastic with analyze, and that's an understatement. With downright horrible speed, he would for the most part, always get an analyze boost (barring shuckle). Sets that would previously have had to make significant EV investment to KO certain threats, now would be aided by being at +1 SpAtk. Starmie... is a STARfish... starfish have regenerate in real life... GF really screwed this one up... and how awesome would a regenerate starmie be? LO recoil wouldn't be a bother, seeing as most Starmie sweeps rarely go further than 3 Pokes before switching out. Sets could use LO without recover and stay healthy, opening up a slot for HP fire or Psycho shock, taking out your choice of starmie's counters, ferrothorn or Blissey. Hopefully Starmie retains its title alongside Gengar, as one of the last pokemon to hold its OU title since 1st gen. :D
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Starmie
- Thread starter Axa
- Start date
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
Starmie is still one of the best water types in the game (IMO). She's fast, has access to an instant recovery move, and resists four priority attacks (bullet punch, aqua jet, mach punch, and vacuum wave). She's also one of the fastest rapid spinners that exist.
She actually resists five. I forgot about ice shard.
She actually resists five. I forgot about ice shard.
If you forgot why didn't you just edit in your post to say five priority moves....
You're typing, not talking..
You're typing, not talking..
I've been trying to think of ways Starmie could use Analyse, and here's my solution. TRICK ROOM STARMIE. Disclaimer, this set may be shit.
Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam / Psyshock
- Trick Room
Okay, this doesn't make a lot of sense, but bear with me. Thanks to Trick Room and Analyse, Starmie effectively gets to choose whether it's a speedy revenge killer or a powerful wall breaker. This set is just as viable as the normal set against offensive teams, since most opponents won't try and Paralyse Starmie. However, should the opponent switch a wall in that could normally take Starmie's attacks (and so long as the wall can't damage Starmie too much) you can activate Trick Room, skyrocketing your Special Attack to 389. Here's some calcs to demonstrate what Starmie can do with this utility...
Hydro Pump vs 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm Heatran - 98.4% - 116.6% (OHKO)
Hydro Pump vs 252 HP / 252 SpD Careful Jirachi - 49.3% - 58.2% (2HKO with Stealth Rocks)
Hydro Pump vs 252 HP Deoxys-S - 99% - 116.8% (OHKO)
Hydro Pump vs 4HP Metagross - 99.7% - 117.5% (OHKO)
Thunderbolt vs 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm Politoed - 54.7% - 64.6% (2HKO)
Thunderbolt vs 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Jellicent - 69.8% - 82.2% (2HKO)
Thunderbolt vs 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm Jellicent - 50.5% - 59.4% (2HKO with Stealth Rocks)
Thunderbolt vs 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Vaporeon - 63.5% - 75.2% (2HKO)
Thunderbolt vs 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Tentacruel - 68.7% - 81.3% (2HKO)
Thunderbolt vs 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Slowbro - 88.8% - 104.6% (OHKO with Stealth Rocks)
Ice Beam vs 252 HP Latias - 63.7% - 75.3% (2HKO even if Latias CM's after the first hit)
Psyshock vs 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Blissey - 46.8% - 55.2% (2HKO with Stealth Rocks)
Psyshock vs 120 HP / 132 SpD Careful Conkeldurr - 96.6% - 113.9% (OHKO)
As you can see, if it uses Trick Room at the right moment, Starmie is able to OHKO or 2HKO many pokemon it could not before thanks to Analytic. None of the above can really threaten Starmie with their attacks, meaning no EVs need to be spent on bulk. Thus on Trick Room teams, Starmie can be used both as a fast utility counter and a Trick Room supporting wallbreaker, thanks to Analytic.
Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam / Psyshock
- Trick Room
Okay, this doesn't make a lot of sense, but bear with me. Thanks to Trick Room and Analyse, Starmie effectively gets to choose whether it's a speedy revenge killer or a powerful wall breaker. This set is just as viable as the normal set against offensive teams, since most opponents won't try and Paralyse Starmie. However, should the opponent switch a wall in that could normally take Starmie's attacks (and so long as the wall can't damage Starmie too much) you can activate Trick Room, skyrocketing your Special Attack to 389. Here's some calcs to demonstrate what Starmie can do with this utility...
Hydro Pump vs 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm Heatran - 98.4% - 116.6% (OHKO)
Hydro Pump vs 252 HP / 252 SpD Careful Jirachi - 49.3% - 58.2% (2HKO with Stealth Rocks)
Hydro Pump vs 252 HP Deoxys-S - 99% - 116.8% (OHKO)
Hydro Pump vs 4HP Metagross - 99.7% - 117.5% (OHKO)
Thunderbolt vs 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm Politoed - 54.7% - 64.6% (2HKO)
Thunderbolt vs 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Jellicent - 69.8% - 82.2% (2HKO)
Thunderbolt vs 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm Jellicent - 50.5% - 59.4% (2HKO with Stealth Rocks)
Thunderbolt vs 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Vaporeon - 63.5% - 75.2% (2HKO)
Thunderbolt vs 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Tentacruel - 68.7% - 81.3% (2HKO)
Thunderbolt vs 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Slowbro - 88.8% - 104.6% (OHKO with Stealth Rocks)
Ice Beam vs 252 HP Latias - 63.7% - 75.3% (2HKO even if Latias CM's after the first hit)
Psyshock vs 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Blissey - 46.8% - 55.2% (2HKO with Stealth Rocks)
Psyshock vs 120 HP / 132 SpD Careful Conkeldurr - 96.6% - 113.9% (OHKO)
As you can see, if it uses Trick Room at the right moment, Starmie is able to OHKO or 2HKO many pokemon it could not before thanks to Analytic. None of the above can really threaten Starmie with their attacks, meaning no EVs need to be spent on bulk. Thus on Trick Room teams, Starmie can be used both as a fast utility counter and a Trick Room supporting wallbreaker, thanks to Analytic.
Heatran isn't going to swap into Starmie any time soon, even the specially defensive calm ones. The problem is that a lot of those situations you described just aren't very possible to happen. However, it seems pretty good vs Politoed and Jellicent since those might want to switch in to grab the water resist thing. However, Jellicent outspeeds in Trick Room to 2HKO with Shadow Ball and avoid your 2HKO with Thunderbolt.
In short, very very situational, but when it does work, it'd throw some serious shit off.
EDIT: What if you used a Modest nature? Predicting a Thunderus switch-in (okay, a bit implausible here) and KOing it under Trick Room would be funny.
In short, very very situational, but when it does work, it'd throw some serious shit off.
EDIT: What if you used a Modest nature? Predicting a Thunderus switch-in (okay, a bit implausible here) and KOing it under Trick Room would be funny.
I dont think that psyshock is really worth it on starmie, it really doesn't do that much to chansey/blissey analyze could MAYBE be used with a trick room set but other than that, I think starmie will be the same as last gen. But that doesn't mean it's bad at all. Starmie will probably stay ou for generations to come (unless it gets an evolution)
two psychic types aren't the worst typing to have two of. I use both Starmie and Reuniclus on my sand team and it does pretty well! Starmie is great against rain and HP fire is a nice surprise while Reuniclus is Reuniclus. nuff said.
Starmie is quite the fantastic poke! I feel as if its main purpose should be a clean-up sweeper, though, and here is why:
-Offensive Stats are Too Low! Starmie holds quite an offensive presence, especially with its astounding coverage, but its modest SpAtt, although good enough, makes it a bit underwhelming in terms of scarf sets. The same holds true for Specs, though in a different manner. Unlike pokes like Tornadus or Latios (or Kyogre) who could smack on a choice item and go to down due to their fantastic STABs and Stats, Starmie relies on coverage rather than power to get the job done, this is limited by a choice item.
-Fantastic Speed allows Starmie to very successfully clean up, especially in the rain with its fantastic (and powerful) coverage in the forms of Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Thunder, and Psyshock. There is virtually no pokemon, bar Ferrothorn, that can stand up to a full on beating from Starmie's fantastic arsenal, especially when weakened!
By utilizing a life orb rather than a choice item, Starmie retains the power boost while also being able to utilize its insane coverage (i.e. why Starmie exists in OU).
Now if only it got Regenerator...
-Offensive Stats are Too Low! Starmie holds quite an offensive presence, especially with its astounding coverage, but its modest SpAtt, although good enough, makes it a bit underwhelming in terms of scarf sets. The same holds true for Specs, though in a different manner. Unlike pokes like Tornadus or Latios (or Kyogre) who could smack on a choice item and go to down due to their fantastic STABs and Stats, Starmie relies on coverage rather than power to get the job done, this is limited by a choice item.
-Fantastic Speed allows Starmie to very successfully clean up, especially in the rain with its fantastic (and powerful) coverage in the forms of Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Thunder, and Psyshock. There is virtually no pokemon, bar Ferrothorn, that can stand up to a full on beating from Starmie's fantastic arsenal, especially when weakened!
By utilizing a life orb rather than a choice item, Starmie retains the power boost while also being able to utilize its insane coverage (i.e. why Starmie exists in OU).
Now if only it got Regenerator...
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
If on a rain team, I'd rather just use sharpedo as my late game cleaner. Sharpedo has relatively decent coverage and high end attacking stats already. Thanks to speed boost, he also doesn't need a speed boosting nature, and will. It find himself revenged late game by choice scarf landorus, choice scarf terrakion, alakazam, etc.
Not saying that starmie is bad by any means in this role but I just find the shark better at it on rain teams. Sharpedo can also go mixed.
Not saying that starmie is bad by any means in this role but I just find the shark better at it on rain teams. Sharpedo can also go mixed.
Starmie is still a very good offensive mon, and is actually on the higher end of the power spectrum for Drizzle-abusing Hydro Pump users. Double-STAB Hydro Pump can really sting. That said, many common Choice Scarf Pokemon pose a threat to it, and ExtemeSpeed is not an uncommon move. The U-turn weakness doesn't make things any easier. It's, ironically, a bit too slow to be a designated cleaner.
Now, of course, Starmie is indesputably the best offensive Rapid Spin user when it has rain support. No Ghost-type can safely switch into LO rain Starmie and not risk at least a 2HKO. Rapid Spin is very useful for rain teams, especially since one of the biggest thorns in the playstyle's side is Ferrothorn (ROFL I'm so witty xD) and some of the big sweepers (Dragonite, Gyarados, Tornadus, hell, even rain Volcarona) function best without Stealth Rock hampering them. Sadly Starmie can't spin on Ferrothorn forever; LO Starmie loses over a 5th of its health spinning on Ferro, not to mention any hazard damage upon switching in. Recover would help alleviate this but sadly Starmie suffers from 4MSS. Thunder is pretty much mandatory for hitting Jellicent, so often Ice Beam must be sacrificed, which allows Celebi, etc. to pose more of a threat. Or you could use all three of Starmie's bread and butter offensive moves with Recover, but as far as that goes Latios is better suited to be an LO Recover sweeper. Regardless, Starmie is definitely a top Pokemon for rain teams.
Now, of course, Starmie is indesputably the best offensive Rapid Spin user when it has rain support. No Ghost-type can safely switch into LO rain Starmie and not risk at least a 2HKO. Rapid Spin is very useful for rain teams, especially since one of the biggest thorns in the playstyle's side is Ferrothorn (ROFL I'm so witty xD) and some of the big sweepers (Dragonite, Gyarados, Tornadus, hell, even rain Volcarona) function best without Stealth Rock hampering them. Sadly Starmie can't spin on Ferrothorn forever; LO Starmie loses over a 5th of its health spinning on Ferro, not to mention any hazard damage upon switching in. Recover would help alleviate this but sadly Starmie suffers from 4MSS. Thunder is pretty much mandatory for hitting Jellicent, so often Ice Beam must be sacrificed, which allows Celebi, etc. to pose more of a threat. Or you could use all three of Starmie's bread and butter offensive moves with Recover, but as far as that goes Latios is better suited to be an LO Recover sweeper. Regardless, Starmie is definitely a top Pokemon for rain teams.
Has anyone tried Scarf Starmie recently. I've Tried it on a drizzle team and to my surprise, it worked out amazing. With Hydro Pump's double STAB, I just tore through teams so easily not to mention the surpirse factor is huge. All those scarf Landorus come in thinking they can fire off a U-turn... The only downside is the loss of Rapid Spin but this scarf Starmie is more of a sweeper than supporter.
I tried Scarf Timid Starmie a while ago, and it took a good amount of
opponents by surprise outspeeding things they didn't expect it do,
(f.e. +2 Cloyster), which made it a very reliable revenger.
Besides rain-boosted Hydro Pump, such a set lacks a bit of power,
but might compensate for this with Starmie's good coverage and the
surprise factor.
I agree with you however, that Scarf Starmie has rather a pure offensive/
revenging role.
opponents by surprise outspeeding things they didn't expect it do,
(f.e. +2 Cloyster), which made it a very reliable revenger.
Besides rain-boosted Hydro Pump, such a set lacks a bit of power,
but might compensate for this with Starmie's good coverage and the
surprise factor.
I agree with you however, that Scarf Starmie has rather a pure offensive/
revenging role.