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Gen 2 Starting Out: RMT

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Sir_Lu, Dec 27, 2007.

  1. Sir_Lu

    Sir_Lu

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Messages:
    623
    I've found a group of a few people willing to battle; the only thing about it is that they play this generation, meaning that I had to learn an entirely new generation. I wasn't too upset since I've heard that this is a very strategic based generation, but I'm still very uncertain about my team.

    Please note that I will be building this team on my Silver cartridge for Link Battles.

    Starmie@ Leftovers
    -Surf
    -Recover
    -Thunder Wave
    -Reflect

    I was thinking about using Slowbro over this since it may be sturdier and can help pull off a Bellyzard sweep easier but it also lacked a recovery move, so Machamp could come in more easily on it and wear it down. I believe Reflect can help with Heracross, but it really does look like it would still cause problems, though. Says sup to opposing Bellyzards. Reflect is now used to give Charizard an easier time coming in and fending off fighters.

    EDIT: Reflect over Ice Beam since Raikou can handle Dragonite.

    Charizard@ Leftovers
    -Fire Blast
    -Belly Drum
    -Earthquake
    -Rock Slide

    Good ol' Bellyzard. Not much to say here aside that this is the my main and preferred way to sweep.

    Raikou@ Leftovers
    -Thunderbolt
    -Crunch
    -Sleep Talk
    -Rest

    I know, for sure, that Suicune, Starmie, Gengar, Zapdos, Aerodactyl, or [insert water pokemon here]. Raikou helps with most, if not all of them. Suicune will be worn down by repeated Thunderbolts while both Gengar and Starmie can be hit by Crunch, though the latter is hit harder by Thunderbolt. From the Smogon Analysis, Raikou can take down Zapdos. Though this is specific to my playing group, it can also take down Singing Boltbeam Lapras and Explosion-less Gengar. Crunch also takes care of other ghosts that may hamper my Snorlax.

    Snorlax@ Leftovers
    -Earthquake
    -Double Edge
    -Rest
    -Thunder

    Originally, I wanted either a set something along the lines of Surf/ Earthquake/ Double Edge/ Selfdestruct, but deciding that I needed it to be sturdier, opted for this set, only Belly Drum over Curse. Then, once more, I wanted it to be sturdier, so went with curse. Did I make the right choice here? This handles the faster electric types that can hamper my Charizard sweep; Jolteon, Zapdos, or other Raikou. I was thinking, that since Curse will leave me rather bulky on the physical side, that I could remove Sleep Talk completely in favor of Earthquake. This way, I can cover the Rhydons I will likely have trouble with as well as being able to hit ghosts more reliably.

    EDIT: New set recommended by Pocket seems to be better; it can hit Skarmory down further and further as well as knocking down Gengar and Rhydon. Thunder also could help against things like cloyster or suicune.

    Meganium@ Leftovers
    -Razor Leaf
    -Synthesis
    -Leech Seed
    -Growl

    Synthesis and Leech Seed, of course, are to stall out and recover HP. This can take down Marowak as well as Rhydon with Razor Leaf, but I'm still leaning back and forth between Razor Leaf and Body Slam. The later move's paralysis chance is quite attractive, but I'm unsure if that 30% is worth being utterly useless against Rhydon. Growl to help play down Cursers.

    EDIT: Pocket recommended Light Screen, so I'll play around with that for a week or so.
    EDIT2: Chose Growl to help with Cursers; Starmie already has Reflect.

    Gengar@ Leftovers
    -Explosion
    -Thunderbolt
    -Ice Punch
    -Hypnosis

    Really, I think I may have problems with cursers as the last pokemon; Dynamic punch will hit the usual cursers hard. Explosion, really, is chosen over Destiny Bond only for Raikou who is faster and will be unaffected by Destiny Bond. Hypnosis to sleep down cursers or Tyranitar.

    EDIT: Hypnosis chosen over Dynamic Punch and Ice Punch over Fire Punch because of Borat's reasoning

    Some concerns:[This Part isn't updated]
    Tyranitar: I seriously don't know if I can handle this. The cursing variant might be handled by Donphan; I just need to hope my curse brings my speed down lower than his. The Mixedtar really has me up in a bind. NOTHING can switch into it unless it runs Surf over Fireblast; in that case, Meganium might be able to come in on it.

    Snorlax: I have Leech Seeding Meganium if its a curser, but that's it. Belly Drum will be causing my team some hurting or if it carries Fire Blast

    Heracross: Charizard can take it as long as it doesn't carry Seismic toss or HP:Rock, but I honestly don't like Charizard taking too many hits.

    Dragonite: DP Snorlax, Thunder Charizard and Starmie, Ice Beam Donphan and Meganium, and Double Edge Raikou? On the bright side, I'm thinking that Starmie can survive a Thunder, but I doubt that it can OHKO with Ice Beam.

    So, any help?

    Thanks in advanced.
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,564
    A similar team has been posted a day before you, and you might find this helpful:
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34105

    What I could see being helpful is having Light Screen on Meganium over Reflect or Leech Seed, since aside from STAB normal moves, Charizard would be barraged with Thunderbolts and Surfs, and this will certainly help it to survive a hit in exchange for a kill.

    Also, setting up Charizard is hard work already, having a wallable Snorlax to worry about isn't helping. I'd atleast go Belly Drum and EQ over Sleep Talk and Curse. Meganium's Reflect even encourages a BDrum set up from Lax. Alternatively, mixlax, which havoc recommended in the earlier thread (D-Edge, Earthquake, Thunder, Rest), could effectively spread damage where it is most likely needed for Zard to sweep, making it more of a better team player imo.

    What about Machamp on your last slot? Even though it doesn't contribute too much with offering sweeping opportunities to Charizard, it still provides defense against the list of pokemon that you find troubling. Or Gengar, which usually have little problem against SToss Heracross (EQ Hera could be taken care by Charizard) and Dragonite (Raikou should counter this anyways), and it could D-Bond / Hypnosis, Ttar or Snorlax. It also provides the team with the normal immunity and kamikaze protection.

    Also, Razor Leaf on Meganium over Body Slam to actually be a threat towards the things it's supposed to (Grounds, Waters, and nonflying Electrics)

    If you're new to the GSC metagame, I recommend these two articles by havoc to understand better about GSC offense and overcoming GSC defense:
    Strategy Analysis: Attack Typing
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=572
    Strategy Analysis: ~$BlIsSkArM$~ is not hard to beat:
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=573
  3. Sir_Lu

    Sir_Lu

    Joined:
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    First off, I'd like to thank you and Havoc VERY much; those guides have helped me quite a bit as well as Havoc's nice team analysis.

    Gengar sounds nice, but would the lack of a pHazer really be hurtful? If not I was thinking of a Dynamic Punch or Hypnosis/ Explosion/ Thunderbolt/ Fire Punch; Dynamic Punch could, in theory, hit the two cursers decently hard while Exploding on a lured out Raikou. Or maybe Perish Song/Explosion/Thunderbolt/Fire Punch?

    I'll most likely use Mixlax, and play around with Reflect and Light Screen to see if I can handle most waters better or if bulky normals cause me more trouble.

    Again, thank you.
  4. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    I actually really like the former Gengar set...prevents Tyranitar to wall it with Hypnosis / D-Punch, forcing Raikou to switch-in, which Gengar could bring down =d. Yea, explosion is a nice tweaking to bring down Raikou, good job =]. Destiny Bond does help with Cursers better than Explosion, however.

    Curselax is hard, but with Meganium's Leech Seed and Starmie's T-Wave and Gengar's D-Punch MIGHT fend it off. Growl over Leech Seed is a reliable counter for Curselax, however doesn't help against Bellylax, in which Leech Seed / Reflect would be better. The best thing to do when dealing with Bellylax is to paralyze / Leech Seed or Reflect / wear it down with T-bolts, Surfs, and Fire Blasts / switch into Gengar or Snorlax to finish it off. When you anticipate a Belly Drum, switch into Gengar, who could threaten it with D-Punch / Explosion, or Snorlax, if the opposing Bellylax is paralyzed. I would try Growl over Leech Seed for now, because that counters Curselax perfectly, and Bellylax could be countered by wearing it down with hits and preventing it from sweeping with BDrum by bringing Snorlax or Gengar before or right after BDrum is used.
  5. Borat

    Borat

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    Apr 14, 2007
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    I don't like Ice Beam Starmie; you have Raikou for all your Dragonite worries. Ice Beam can luck Zapdos at times, but that's about it. Go with Reflect or Psychic if you fear Tentacruel (you have Raikou).

    I'd go with Reflect on Meganium; you have Snorlax and Raikou, #1 and 2 on the special wall list, what good is Light Screen going to do you? But then again, you might even want to go with Growl if cursers are what's causing you trouble.

    Fire Punch is one of the moves not recommended in Gengar's repitoire. Honestly, what are you going to hit? Forretress? Heracross? Skarmory? Because we all know how those are common Gengar switchins right? I'm not sure about DP; it won't dent cursers and DP is generally only used if you bold against Ttar.
  6. Sir_Lu

    Sir_Lu

    Joined:
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    I went with Reflect on Starmie so Meganium can run Growl for cursers. Otherwise, I could go psychic and Reflect on them. Ice Punch over Fire Punch on Gengar since I believe that would be better; a boltbeam esque coverage. I also thought that Blissey would switch into Gengar, giving Gengar some means to use DP. If not, then I'm sorry and Hypnosis will be run over DP.

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