This is already legal. What you can't do is say "If he uses <list of all physical attacks> use Counter" or "If he uses a physical attack, use Counter".
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Data State of the Game - 6/10/2011
- Thread starter Seven Deadly Sins
- Start date
- Status
On the issue of Substitute -> 15 HP:
I discussed this on iRC, and I will say this: I agree that it could stand to be lowered. I would prefer this to be lowered to 20 HP rather than 15 HP, as I'm still in the camp of "if it's 15, a crap ton of attacks will be able to break subs". I understand completely why 15 was chosen, and I would still consider voting for 15 HP, but 20 HP gets my 100% vote.
On the issue of weather/TR:
I can get behind lowering the current five round description. I will NOT support six actions. That's way too low. I would think six actions was chosen as a literal translation of "six moves of weather max", but in retrospect, the impact that six actions in ASB does not correspond to the impact six turns in-game does. The lowest I would support is nine actions, and the highest is twelve actions. Six actions I simply do not support.
On CounterCoat and Metal Burst:
Metal Burst already got nerfed. It went from 1.5x to 1.25x. The tiny bit of extra damage just barely matches the bloated energy cost to use that move. It's fine as it is.
I do think CounterCoat is fine as well, since you do either waste a Substitution to use it or use it as a reaction to your opponent's orders. The whole "IF PHYSICAL USE COUNTER" thing was solved long ago. If it happens, it should be met with infractions / referee probation or suspension. If any change is made, it should simply be lowered to the same point as Metal Burst (1.25x). They are the same thing after all, just Metal Burst is "better" and limited. I still do not think change is necessary.
On the Battle Cap:
In the future, this is a good idea. Right now, there's a referee shortage. I am with Deck: let the referee training program get into full swing for a month or two, and then let's see where can go from there.
I discussed this on iRC, and I will say this: I agree that it could stand to be lowered. I would prefer this to be lowered to 20 HP rather than 15 HP, as I'm still in the camp of "if it's 15, a crap ton of attacks will be able to break subs". I understand completely why 15 was chosen, and I would still consider voting for 15 HP, but 20 HP gets my 100% vote.
On the issue of weather/TR:
I can get behind lowering the current five round description. I will NOT support six actions. That's way too low. I would think six actions was chosen as a literal translation of "six moves of weather max", but in retrospect, the impact that six actions in ASB does not correspond to the impact six turns in-game does. The lowest I would support is nine actions, and the highest is twelve actions. Six actions I simply do not support.
On CounterCoat and Metal Burst:
Metal Burst already got nerfed. It went from 1.5x to 1.25x. The tiny bit of extra damage just barely matches the bloated energy cost to use that move. It's fine as it is.
I do think CounterCoat is fine as well, since you do either waste a Substitution to use it or use it as a reaction to your opponent's orders. The whole "IF PHYSICAL USE COUNTER" thing was solved long ago. If it happens, it should be met with infractions / referee probation or suspension. If any change is made, it should simply be lowered to the same point as Metal Burst (1.25x). They are the same thing after all, just Metal Burst is "better" and limited. I still do not think change is necessary.
On the Battle Cap:
In the future, this is a good idea. Right now, there's a referee shortage. I am with Deck: let the referee training program get into full swing for a month or two, and then let's see where can go from there.
More attention needs to be paid to Bide. While you only reflect two attacks and the opponent gets a third attack, with double damage and priority it's still ridiculous. If nothing else, it should be brought in line with Counter and Mirror Coat, ie x1.5 instead of x2 (they're all 2 ingame so it would make sense for them to all be 1.5 in ASB).
Substitute
I think that a logical solution would be to make Substitute work like Hidden Power does. When the pokemon obtains the move, they choose an HP amount, from a certain range, that will always be the HP of the substitute they create. This way, people can customize the amount for different types of pokemon.
Weather / TR
These can simply be lowered to 3 rounds, or 9 actions. A middle ground between 2 rounds and 5 rounds. 3 rounds would be plenty for the world effects to be utilized, or backfired.
CounterCoat
Metal Burst is not a problem, it was fixed.
However, CounterCoat needs to be fixed! When attacking second, it guarantees the pokemon to do more than what is was attacked by, which is simply not fair when it has barely any restrictions. A battle that come to mind is this in which the player who moved first used three physical attacks, which was responded with three Counters, immediately doing more damage. Strategies like this are much too simple, and extremely frustrating to battle against. The player who used three physical moves did not make a mistake, yet still suffered horribly. I feel that this is a extreme problem also because of the Emerald Counter Tutor, that significantly raises the Pokemon who have access to Counter. I think that limiting the amount of Counters you can use in a battle is a possibility, because logically, a pokemon might get upset that there trainer is making them a 'punching bag' of sorts.
Battle Cap:
I agree that right now, CAP ASB is not ready for such a huge wave of battles. However, I think that extending RPs would be a possibility, however this is something that really only concerns zarator, who runs the Raids. I also think that maybe an RP limit might be a good idea, so that people cannot constantly be using RPs to take advantage of counters or other things. Possibly a limit of three RPs at a time.
I think that a logical solution would be to make Substitute work like Hidden Power does. When the pokemon obtains the move, they choose an HP amount, from a certain range, that will always be the HP of the substitute they create. This way, people can customize the amount for different types of pokemon.
Weather / TR
These can simply be lowered to 3 rounds, or 9 actions. A middle ground between 2 rounds and 5 rounds. 3 rounds would be plenty for the world effects to be utilized, or backfired.
CounterCoat
Metal Burst is not a problem, it was fixed.
However, CounterCoat needs to be fixed! When attacking second, it guarantees the pokemon to do more than what is was attacked by, which is simply not fair when it has barely any restrictions. A battle that come to mind is this in which the player who moved first used three physical attacks, which was responded with three Counters, immediately doing more damage. Strategies like this are much too simple, and extremely frustrating to battle against. The player who used three physical moves did not make a mistake, yet still suffered horribly. I feel that this is a extreme problem also because of the Emerald Counter Tutor, that significantly raises the Pokemon who have access to Counter. I think that limiting the amount of Counters you can use in a battle is a possibility, because logically, a pokemon might get upset that there trainer is making them a 'punching bag' of sorts.
<Objection> the thing is, some mons just don't have any good moves on one side
<Objection> take jellicent for example
<Objection> I can count the number of physical moves (both good and bad) <Objection> it gets, barely going over one hand
<Objection> so against mons with mirror coat, it's practically lost already
<Objection> take jellicent for example
<Objection> I can count the number of physical moves (both good and bad) <Objection> it gets, barely going over one hand
<Objection> so against mons with mirror coat, it's practically lost already
Battle Cap:
I agree that right now, CAP ASB is not ready for such a huge wave of battles. However, I think that extending RPs would be a possibility, however this is something that really only concerns zarator, who runs the Raids. I also think that maybe an RP limit might be a good idea, so that people cannot constantly be using RPs to take advantage of counters or other things. Possibly a limit of three RPs at a time.
Actually, Bide is well-balanced as is. The fact that it leaves the opponent a free turn that isn't spat back at them, the fact that you have to time it PERFECTLY for it to execute properly (not to mention that it'll only work once or twice against any given person), and the fact that most all-out attack sequences wind up being Strong SE => Midling SE/Strong STAB => Strong SE means that you're, on average, putting out less than 1.5x the damage dealt. It's fine as is.
I haven't had much experience with the others, but field effects definitely seem way too lengthy to me. If you think about it, a Swift Swimmer using Rain Dance is almost like using Agility, Swords Dance* and Nasty Plot* all at the same time, and instead of slowly decreasing back to 0 after two rounds it lasts 5. Sandstorm is pretty good as well. 5 rounds of risidual damage +whatever abilities they have (Sand Veil aaaargh) is infuriating. I haven't had any experience with the others, but I imagine sun has less immediate power than Rain but with the bonus of super recoveries (Synthesis etc), and Hail... idk, I guess its like Sandstorm. 2 Rounds is probably too little perhaps, but I think anymore than 3 Rounds is too much. It's not unusual for a small battle to last only three Rounds anyway...
*For water attacks only of course; so not quite this extreme, but you get the idea.
*For water attacks only of course; so not quite this extreme, but you get the idea.
Venser, with that logic, one move, given to many, many pokemon, makes physical moves obsolete. I find that completely ridiculous and overpowered.
Magic coat isn't widely spread? Especially since a lot of those pokemon listed suck? I agree with fire blast.
Not to mention, attacks are more important than status, providing instant, generally larger amounts of damage than status. And every pokemon has them. Except wobb/naut. But nobody uses them. Because they suck. Because they don't have attacks.
Not to mention, attacks are more important than status, providing instant, generally larger amounts of damage than status. And every pokemon has them. Except wobb/naut. But nobody uses them. Because they suck. Because they don't have attacks.
i agree with #2 (even though i use trick room) and #4.
five rounds is a very very long time, and it is a tad ridiculous. trick room is one of the weaker field effects in asb since speed isn't quite as important, so i can only imagine how powerful rain / sun are at five rounds. i like three rounds, as that gives you nine actions to take advantage of it as opposed to fifteen. this way it also stays reasonably good in triples+.
#4 is pretty easy really. if you have matches that drag on and on for a week or so it gets quite annoying.
five rounds is a very very long time, and it is a tad ridiculous. trick room is one of the weaker field effects in asb since speed isn't quite as important, so i can only imagine how powerful rain / sun are at five rounds. i like three rounds, as that gives you nine actions to take advantage of it as opposed to fifteen. this way it also stays reasonably good in triples+.
#4 is pretty easy really. if you have matches that drag on and on for a week or so it gets quite annoying.
Weather Balancing, extended:
It is true that Weather is a powerful effect, however unlike other attacks which generally offer only rewards and are more difficult to exploit, Weather has other counters. This is especially true in light of the buff to auto-weather abilities, where the Pokemon can now almost guarantee it has its beneficial weather active.
As far as countering weather, almost every Pokemon in the game has at least one weather-inducing Attack, many have two, and most of the time weathers are mutually exclusive (I've had Sun + Sandstorm going before, that was fun. Actually it would probably be possible to mix Rain Dance + Hail as well assuming one was an always-on field effect, but not any other combination.) Each cost 10 Energy, and it's actually usually the slower Pokemon that wins in a weather war because they can order it the same action to cancel the opponent's weather out.
I wouldn't be averse to lowering it to a four round duration. These are global effects that can benefit as well as backfire on both sides simply because of the sheer number of abilities and intangible battle conditions they offer. Weather is the strongest of these, though both Gravity and Trick Room have their benefits. In any case I don't want to weaken them too much. They are supposed to be powerful effects, just like in-game.
Other stuff, extended:
As far as the example in the battle of Counter, I've been smashed pretty hard by bad play through Disable as well. Disable isn't as ubiquitous, but it's pretty powerful depending on your opponent's ability to inflict damage. There are simply some moves you have to look out for on your opponent's movepool.
In theory you could lock a Substitute in at 25% of the user's HP (rounded down) but that would give the Sub spreads 20, 22, 25, 27, and 30 HP respectively (up to 35 HP for Blissey). I'm not sure if that would be a better solution, though it would be more atune to game mechanics.
New question:
Speed Natures revisited:
Based on the number of Pokemon that are much slower than their evolved counterparts (Trapinch, Nohface), I'd like to implement a few changes to Speed natures. I haven't head any complaints about Speed of late so it seems like they're doing what the shift was meant to do.
Anyway, 2 revisions:
1: Place a minimum of 5 on the accuracy boost. This is so the slow mons with Fangs can get to 100% Acc on them.
2. Change divisors to:
Fully Evolved: 870
Second of Three: 580
Second of Two: 435
First of Three: 290
And make values follow normal rounding rules.
This results in a buff to Spe natured Pokemon, especially first and middle evolutions. The cap will remain at 30, however now more FE Pokemon will actually reach it (currently only Ninjask and Deoxys-S do). These are the same mons from the last thread with the updated formulas:
Dratini: (58 * 58)/290 = 11.6, which rounds up to 12. [Dragonair is 11, Dragonite is 10 Acc]
Aron: (35 * 35)/290 = 4.22, which rounds to 4 (but it gets bumped to the minimum +5) [Lairon is 4 Acc and gets boosted to 5, Aggron is 4 Acc and gets boosted to 5.]
Cranidos: (67 * 67)/435 = 10.32, which rounds down to 10. (Compare Rampardos which gets a 5 Accuracy boost)
Ponyta: (104 * 104)/435 = 24.86, which rounds up to 25. (Compare Rapidash, which gets a 17 Accuracy boost)
Onix: (81 * 81)/435 = 15.08, which rounds to 15 (Compare Steelix, which gets a laughable 2 Accuracy boost now boosted to 5)
Scyther: (121 * 121)/435 = 33.65, which hits the cap of 30 (Compare Scizor, which is slower and only gets a 6 Accuracy boost)
Charmeleon: (92 * 92)/580 = 14.59, which rounds up to 15 (Compare Charmander which gets a 19 Acc boost and Charizard, which also gets a 15 Accuracy boost)
Magneton: (81 * 81)/580 = 11.32, which rounds to 11 (Compare Magnemite which gets an 9 Acc boost and Magnezone, which is slower and only gets a 5 Accuracy boost)
Kadabra: (121 * 121)/580 = 25.24, which rounds to 25 (Compare Abra which gets 30 (Cap) Acc boost and Alakazam, which gets a 22 Accuracy boost)
If you're really interested in FEs, this change brings Electrode (140 Base) to +30 Acc, Accelgor breaks the cap, Base 80's get +10 Acc, Base 100's get +15, Base 115's get +20, and Base 130's get +26.
It is true that Weather is a powerful effect, however unlike other attacks which generally offer only rewards and are more difficult to exploit, Weather has other counters. This is especially true in light of the buff to auto-weather abilities, where the Pokemon can now almost guarantee it has its beneficial weather active.
As far as countering weather, almost every Pokemon in the game has at least one weather-inducing Attack, many have two, and most of the time weathers are mutually exclusive (I've had Sun + Sandstorm going before, that was fun. Actually it would probably be possible to mix Rain Dance + Hail as well assuming one was an always-on field effect, but not any other combination.) Each cost 10 Energy, and it's actually usually the slower Pokemon that wins in a weather war because they can order it the same action to cancel the opponent's weather out.
I wouldn't be averse to lowering it to a four round duration. These are global effects that can benefit as well as backfire on both sides simply because of the sheer number of abilities and intangible battle conditions they offer. Weather is the strongest of these, though both Gravity and Trick Room have their benefits. In any case I don't want to weaken them too much. They are supposed to be powerful effects, just like in-game.
Other stuff, extended:
As far as the example in the battle of Counter, I've been smashed pretty hard by bad play through Disable as well. Disable isn't as ubiquitous, but it's pretty powerful depending on your opponent's ability to inflict damage. There are simply some moves you have to look out for on your opponent's movepool.
In theory you could lock a Substitute in at 25% of the user's HP (rounded down) but that would give the Sub spreads 20, 22, 25, 27, and 30 HP respectively (up to 35 HP for Blissey). I'm not sure if that would be a better solution, though it would be more atune to game mechanics.
New question:
Speed Natures revisited:
Based on the number of Pokemon that are much slower than their evolved counterparts (Trapinch, Nohface), I'd like to implement a few changes to Speed natures. I haven't head any complaints about Speed of late so it seems like they're doing what the shift was meant to do.
Anyway, 2 revisions:
1: Place a minimum of 5 on the accuracy boost. This is so the slow mons with Fangs can get to 100% Acc on them.
2. Change divisors to:
Fully Evolved: 870
Second of Three: 580
Second of Two: 435
First of Three: 290
And make values follow normal rounding rules.
This results in a buff to Spe natured Pokemon, especially first and middle evolutions. The cap will remain at 30, however now more FE Pokemon will actually reach it (currently only Ninjask and Deoxys-S do). These are the same mons from the last thread with the updated formulas:
Dratini: (58 * 58)/290 = 11.6, which rounds up to 12. [Dragonair is 11, Dragonite is 10 Acc]
Aron: (35 * 35)/290 = 4.22, which rounds to 4 (but it gets bumped to the minimum +5) [Lairon is 4 Acc and gets boosted to 5, Aggron is 4 Acc and gets boosted to 5.]
Cranidos: (67 * 67)/435 = 10.32, which rounds down to 10. (Compare Rampardos which gets a 5 Accuracy boost)
Ponyta: (104 * 104)/435 = 24.86, which rounds up to 25. (Compare Rapidash, which gets a 17 Accuracy boost)
Onix: (81 * 81)/435 = 15.08, which rounds to 15 (Compare Steelix, which gets a laughable 2 Accuracy boost now boosted to 5)
Scyther: (121 * 121)/435 = 33.65, which hits the cap of 30 (Compare Scizor, which is slower and only gets a 6 Accuracy boost)
Charmeleon: (92 * 92)/580 = 14.59, which rounds up to 15 (Compare Charmander which gets a 19 Acc boost and Charizard, which also gets a 15 Accuracy boost)
Magneton: (81 * 81)/580 = 11.32, which rounds to 11 (Compare Magnemite which gets an 9 Acc boost and Magnezone, which is slower and only gets a 5 Accuracy boost)
Kadabra: (121 * 121)/580 = 25.24, which rounds to 25 (Compare Abra which gets 30 (Cap) Acc boost and Alakazam, which gets a 22 Accuracy boost)
If you're really interested in FEs, this change brings Electrode (140 Base) to +30 Acc, Accelgor breaks the cap, Base 80's get +10 Acc, Base 100's get +15, Base 115's get +20, and Base 130's get +26.
My suggestion for CounterCoatBurst is that we make a rule like this:
The user can't make any substitutions on the action of CounterCoatBurst, but the other Pokemon can. ex:
person 1: use hydro pump three times. If he uses Mirror Coat, use Aqua Tail. (fine)
person 2: use Mirror Coat three times. If he uses Brick Break, use Fly instead (bad)
The user can't make any substitutions on the action of CounterCoatBurst, but the other Pokemon can. ex:
person 1: use hydro pump three times. If he uses Mirror Coat, use Aqua Tail. (fine)
person 2: use Mirror Coat three times. If he uses Brick Break, use Fly instead (bad)
Yeah, but I ment to that to be specified on the moves (like a side effect) or in the substitution rules
I was thinking that Metal Burst (and Bide, for that matter) should do the same amount of damage taken by the user to the target. This doesn't really give either Pokemon an immediate advantage or disadvantage that wasn't there before. It also helps the viability of the Pokemon that get it.
As for the CounterCoat problem...the one-move-sub idea seems like a good idea. Since they only require prediction if the user posts before an opponent, maybe the ratio of damage taken to damage dealt should decrease depending on the number of players after the user. How will that go? That's up to somebody else.
Since the reflecting moves are rather cheap, all-purpose ways to deal damage, they should cost more than the original attack, which is how it is now. If they fail, the Pokemon doesn't actually do anything, so the Energy Cost should be minimized.
I don't know how much authority I have here, so do what you will with this. At least consider it, though.
BASTIODON doesn't really have another form of reliable direct damage. It also has crippling 4x weaknesses to Fighting and Ground -- two commonplace attacks -- and Metal Burst gives it a chance against these.
AGGRON and BISHARP also have 4x weaknesses, but they also have reliable power. Even so, Metal Burst evens the field for them against Fighting and Ground attackers.
MAWILE's simply incompetent. The least we can do is let it use Metal Burst to even the field.
SABLEYE has no type weaknesses but no real statistical strengths. MB isn't boosted by Prankster, though, so that makes Sableye even more annoying than it was; you can launch status and disruptive attacks but bounce damage back with a slow Metal Burst.
COBALION and DIALGA are a little too fast for Metal Burst, but they outclass most other Pokemon anyway, so it's not really felt.
AGGRON and BISHARP also have 4x weaknesses, but they also have reliable power. Even so, Metal Burst evens the field for them against Fighting and Ground attackers.
MAWILE's simply incompetent. The least we can do is let it use Metal Burst to even the field.
SABLEYE has no type weaknesses but no real statistical strengths. MB isn't boosted by Prankster, though, so that makes Sableye even more annoying than it was; you can launch status and disruptive attacks but bounce damage back with a slow Metal Burst.
COBALION and DIALGA are a little too fast for Metal Burst, but they outclass most other Pokemon anyway, so it's not really felt.
As for the CounterCoat problem...the one-move-sub idea seems like a good idea. Since they only require prediction if the user posts before an opponent, maybe the ratio of damage taken to damage dealt should decrease depending on the number of players after the user. How will that go? That's up to somebody else.
Since the reflecting moves are rather cheap, all-purpose ways to deal damage, they should cost more than the original attack, which is how it is now. If they fail, the Pokemon doesn't actually do anything, so the Energy Cost should be minimized.
I don't know how much authority I have here, so do what you will with this. At least consider it, though.
If you mean they have to say "If he uses Flare Blitz, use Counter", they already have to say that.
I'd like to just bring up something else: awarding free nature changes.
Nature changes weren't doled out for the Speed-Accuracy changes, presumably due to not actually affecting stats. However, faster Pokemon bought before them had close to no use for speed+ natures, because the acc boost was minimal(5%). After these new changes, some fast Pokemon might wish to switch to a speed+ nature, since it has a far greater use now. I don't think it's fair to deny users of such Pokemon a chance to change their nature, because they really didn't have warning about the change before it happened.
Nature changes weren't doled out for the Speed-Accuracy changes, presumably due to not actually affecting stats. However, faster Pokemon bought before them had close to no use for speed+ natures, because the acc boost was minimal(5%). After these new changes, some fast Pokemon might wish to switch to a speed+ nature, since it has a far greater use now. I don't think it's fair to deny users of such Pokemon a chance to change their nature, because they really didn't have warning about the change before it happened.
I agree with #1 and kind of #2. That's pretty much it.
5 rounds is definitely waaay too long; for reasons mentioned in the last SotG, I support making them 3 rounds (not 9 actions); however, I suppose 4 rounds (not 12 actions) would work well.
I agree with what Deck said about #3.
As for battle caps, bumping them up to four is going to be a lot more work for refs. If you're a pretty average ref like me (not Flora), and you're reffing an average of three things (RPs, regular battles), think about what it's like to take another battle under your wing. With two more people pushing you to ref. Now imagine if you're really active like I used to be, reffing upwards of six matches at a time. Try and imagine reffing two more. Problem? (The only person that can say no is Flora, and she might not want to take another three/four battles)
That being said, I do support splitting the cap into RPs and regular battles. To be honest, RP refs are generally faster/better, so changing it from 3 battles and freebie-RPs to 3 battles + 1 RP might be better; it also prevents you from just spamming RPs to get drawback-less rewards.
5 rounds is definitely waaay too long; for reasons mentioned in the last SotG, I support making them 3 rounds (not 9 actions); however, I suppose 4 rounds (not 12 actions) would work well.
I agree with what Deck said about #3.
As for battle caps, bumping them up to four is going to be a lot more work for refs. If you're a pretty average ref like me (not Flora), and you're reffing an average of three things (RPs, regular battles), think about what it's like to take another battle under your wing. With two more people pushing you to ref. Now imagine if you're really active like I used to be, reffing upwards of six matches at a time. Try and imagine reffing two more. Problem? (The only person that can say no is Flora, and she might not want to take another three/four battles)
That being said, I do support splitting the cap into RPs and regular battles. To be honest, RP refs are generally faster/better, so changing it from 3 battles and freebie-RPs to 3 battles + 1 RP might be better; it also prevents you from just spamming RPs to get drawback-less rewards.
AGREED
While I'm not all OMG FUCK YEAH x1000 about DW's proposal, I do think it makes sense if you go by the basic premise "Any change to the stat system merits free nature changes to all pokemon that were around before it." After all, the change to the way speed natures work is a change to the stat system (specifically, the accuracy and evasion stats).
Something I want to adress is in the typing descriptions it speaks of "greater mobility" or "enhanced senses" most often dealing with the arena/enviorment these should be given a defination. Maybe something along the lines of
Greater mobility: a small bonus to the dodge command, a flat speed boost of maybe 10.
Enhanced senses: a flat boost to accuracy, and -1 energy cost to detect/protect
There are some others to discuss such as fighting types reaction time in close quarters of the lack of mobility by non amphibious water types. All are in type description but never factored in, a set definition would be nice.
Greater mobility: a small bonus to the dodge command, a flat speed boost of maybe 10.
Enhanced senses: a flat boost to accuracy, and -1 energy cost to detect/protect
There are some others to discuss such as fighting types reaction time in close quarters of the lack of mobility by non amphibious water types. All are in type description but never factored in, a set definition would be nice.
Re: Substitute
I'd personally go with percent over HP, but I'm against nerfing it. It is quite pricey in terms of Energy, ranging from 8-31 in cost, depending on what Pokemon is using it, etc. From my experience, it is not annoying enough to worry about. If you're really annoyed by it, then just get something with Roar/Whirlwind. But then again, If you want to turn Substitute into a niche move, then so be it.
Re: Weather Duration
I'm fine with shortening the duration by a round, but 6 actions is simply too short. As an avid Sandstorm user, this doesn't worry me much, I've never been worried about weather length to that matter. As it stands, I don't really have an opinion on this.
Re: CounterCoat & Metal Burst
No opinion. Never used these moves, so I'm not concerned.
Re: Battle Cap
No. I am fine with the Battle Cap as it stands at the moment. I personally don't mind if a battle lasts a while, as long as neither player or the ref exceeds the DQ time. Deck Knight's proposal, on the other hand, I agree with.
I'd personally go with percent over HP, but I'm against nerfing it. It is quite pricey in terms of Energy, ranging from 8-31 in cost, depending on what Pokemon is using it, etc. From my experience, it is not annoying enough to worry about. If you're really annoyed by it, then just get something with Roar/Whirlwind. But then again, If you want to turn Substitute into a niche move, then so be it.
Re: Weather Duration
I'm fine with shortening the duration by a round, but 6 actions is simply too short. As an avid Sandstorm user, this doesn't worry me much, I've never been worried about weather length to that matter. As it stands, I don't really have an opinion on this.
Re: CounterCoat & Metal Burst
No opinion. Never used these moves, so I'm not concerned.
Re: Battle Cap
No. I am fine with the Battle Cap as it stands at the moment. I personally don't mind if a battle lasts a while, as long as neither player or the ref exceeds the DQ time. Deck Knight's proposal, on the other hand, I agree with.
Substitute: Lowing the HP of the substitute to 15 seems fine. Is it a bit low? If the user got hit by a SE attack, then perhaps yes, but other than that, a 15 HP sub should be able to hold on its own for at least a few actions.
Field Effects: Like what most people said, 5 rounds is indeed too long, but 6 actions is too short. We can either change the effects so that they last 4 rounds, or we can base the duration of the moves on the amount of energy a Pokemon is willing to spend. Right now, most field effect moves costs 10 energy for 5 rounds. Perhaps we could alter the energy costs so, for example, 10 energy = 3 rounds, 15 energy = 4 rounds, 20 energy = 5 rounds, etc.
CounterCoat: Never faced or reffed any matches where a participant used them, so I have no say in this matter.
Battle Cap: Extending the limit to 4 matches should only happen when we get more available refs.
And now, a quick question: what do you people think about the move Double Team? I've personally always hated that move with a passion, but then again, I'm not exactly the best battler in ASB.
Field Effects: Like what most people said, 5 rounds is indeed too long, but 6 actions is too short. We can either change the effects so that they last 4 rounds, or we can base the duration of the moves on the amount of energy a Pokemon is willing to spend. Right now, most field effect moves costs 10 energy for 5 rounds. Perhaps we could alter the energy costs so, for example, 10 energy = 3 rounds, 15 energy = 4 rounds, 20 energy = 5 rounds, etc.
CounterCoat: Never faced or reffed any matches where a participant used them, so I have no say in this matter.
Battle Cap: Extending the limit to 4 matches should only happen when we get more available refs.
And now, a quick question: what do you people think about the move Double Team? I've personally always hated that move with a passion, but then again, I'm not exactly the best battler in ASB.
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