Steel Arceus (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Jibaku, Aug 17, 2010.

  1. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    FIRST!

    Also thanks to Dracoyoshi8 for writing up the fabulous overview

    [OVERVIEW]
    <p> Gaze before the metallic sheen of the omnipotent Steel-type Arceus. Of all of Arceus's many faces, this is by far the most resilient. It's immunity to the dreaded poison, numerous resistances to the elements and ability to pierce through the mighty Dragon like a lance, Steel Arceus is a formidable opponent. Its ability to stand firm as an unmoving wall from the heavens or attack with the divine might of a thousand stars, Steel Arceus can be godly on every team. Do not underestimate it's wrath, for thou shalt be smote into nothing more than a pile of ash, unworthy to see the glow of one of Arceus's mightiest forms.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Steel CM
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Judgment
    move 3: Roar / Thunder / Iron Defense
    move 4: Recover
    item: Iron Plate
    evs: 100 HP / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe
    nature: Timid

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p> Calm Mind Arceus combines both amazing durability and power into a set that can prove to be extremely difficult to handle. Unlike just about any other Calm Mind users in game, Arceus has no fear of Toxic and Toxic Spikes thanks to its natural immunity to the status. With no fear from Blissey’s main crippling move, Arceus gains a valuable moveslot that can help increase the utility of the set. </p>

    <p>At first glance, it may appear odd that Arceus’ main attack, Judgment, is a Steel-type, given that many Pokemon in the Uber metagame resist it. However, it is important to realize that no Pokemon outside of Shedinja is immune to Steel-type attacks, and that a not very effective Judgment has a base power roughly equivalent to 90. Furthermore, most of the Pokemon that resist Steel-type attacks fear switching into Arceus as they usually lack a strong enough attack to quickly break through Arceus’ impressive bulk, allowing it to set up on them. Those who do not resist Steel, such as Mewtwo and Groudon, can take a fierce blow from Judgment’s raw power. Roar allows Arceus to combat other Calm Minders such as Latias and Kyogre, as well as removing Dialga’s Bulk Up boosts. It allows Arceus to scout its potential counters and rack up entry hazards damage. Should you find Judgment’s coverage inadequate, Thunder helps round it out by hitting Kyogre and Ho-Oh for super effective damage and hit Heatran for neutral damage. Iron Defense patches up Arceus’ otherwise unboosted Defense stat, allowing it to tank hits from both sides of the spectrum, but it may have troubles taking down fellow Calm Minders. Finally, Recover provides Arceus with reliable recovery, allowing it to continue setting up and tanking hits </p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Due to Steel-type Arceus’ weakness to Fire, and the presence of Drought in the Uber metagame, Kyogre is an excellent partner as it removes the sunlight through Drizzle and patches up its Fire-type weakness. Furthermore, Kyogre can switch into Ho-Oh and Heatran, two of this set’s greatest fears, and destroy them with a powerful Surf. If you’re using Roar, entry hazards are crucial, and as such, Forretress and Deoxys-S are great partners for that role alone. Giratina-O aids in blocking Rapid Spin and is immune or resistant to all of Arceus’ weaknesses. Latias and Latios are also excellent teammates as they cover Arceus’ weaknesses, and vice versa.</p>

    <p>Groudon is a surprisingly great partner as it can set up Stealth Rock while not being weak to Ground, Fighting, or Fire, unlike most of the other Pokemon that can set it up. Drought may appear antagonistic at first, but it allows Arceus to set up on Latios and Latias easier as Thunder is no longer 100% accurate. Although risky, Groudon can switch into Kyogre’s non damaging moves, or Thunder, and immediately switch to Arceus and let it set up. However, with the Fire-type moves’ increased strength, Arceus can be easier to break down. As a result, Heatran and Ho-Oh are great partners. Although Heatran shares Arceus’ Ground-type and Fighting-type weaknesses, Flash Fire allow it to take full advantage of the Fire-type attacks aimed at Arceus. Ho-Oh resists all of three of Arceus’ weaknesses and can use Earthquake to eliminate the opponent’s Heatran.</p>


    [SET]
    name: SD Steel
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Iron Head
    move 3: Earthquake / Cosmic Power
    move 4: Recover
    item: Iron Plate
    evs: 100 HP / 100 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpD / 100 Spe
    nature: Jolly
    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Unlike most Swords Dancers in the metagame, Steel Arceus possesses a great amount of bulk and Speed. Like the previous set, Arceus’s natural bulk and its dozen resistances allow it to switch in with ease and set up, and it does not require support from Wobbuffet most of the time. Unlike the previous set, however, this set takes advantage of the general lack of focus on physical Defense and can deal damage quicker as Swords Dance boosts its offensive stat faster than Calm Mind.</p>

    <p>Iron Head is Arceus’ main attacking option, being boosted by STAB and plate, as well as offering a decent neutral coverage. It also boasts a great 30% chance of flinching, which, combined with Arceus’ moderately fast 331 Speed, can sometimes prove to be quite annoying to slower Pokemon such as Groudon and Wobbuffet. It is worth noting that Steel Arceus possesses one of the most reliable physical STAB attacks in its movepool. Earthquake rounds out Arceus’ coverage by hitting most Iron Head resistors for at least neutral damage. Earthquake also hits Dialga, Heatran, and Lucario for super-effective damage. Cosmic Power helps turn Arceus into a monstrous tank, boosting its defenses to make it incredibly tough to break down and thus allowing it to secure a sweep easier, but loses the coverage Earthquake provides. As this set aims to take full advantage of Arceus’ bulk and resistances, Recover is a must in order to keep it alive for a long time. This is further justified by the fact that its attacking options either lack the raw power or utility compared to the other variants of Swords Dance Arceus.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Despite the quick Attack boost from Swords Dance, a few Pokemon are capable of taking the boosted hit and cause trouble for Arceus. Ho-Oh, with its resistance to Iron Head and immunity to Earthquake, can take a hit quite easily and dispatch of Arceus with a powerful Sacred Fire. Even if the rain is active, Sacred Fire’s incredibly high chance of burning can be a large nuisance. Bulky Calm Mind and Choice Scarf Kyogre are also issues. The former isn’t even 2HKOed by Swords Danced Earthquake, while it can 2HKO back with Surf. Even if Arceus uses Cosmic Power to boost its bulk, Kyogre can essentially neutralize it through Calm Mind. Choice Scarf Kyogre is faster and 2HKOes with Surf or Water Spout, and is not OHKOed by Swords Danced Earthquake even after Stealth Rock and Spikes damage! Garchomp outruns Arceus and can 2HKO with Earthquake (or OHKO if it is holding a Choice Band), and Swords Danced Iron Head will fail to OHKO after Stealth Rock damage. Rock Polish Groudon can take a boosted hit and OHKO with Earthquake, but must be wary of Iron Head’s flinching chance. Defensive Groudon is not 2HKOed by Swords Danced Iron Head and can 2HKO back with Earthquake or Roar it away.</p>

    <p>Kyogre is an excellent teammate as it can handle Ho-Oh, Groudon, and Garchomp to a certain extent as well as reducing Arceus’ weakness to Fire-type moves via Drizzle. Kyogre also deals with Heatran, should you decide to use Cosmic Power instead of Earthquake. Latios, Latias, and Palkia help cover up Kyogre that plague Arceus; the former two get an honorable mention as they resist all of Arceus’ weaknesses and vice versa. In the same vein, Giratina-O resists all of Arceus weaknesses and vice versa, and blocks Rapid Spin should you have multiple layers of entry hazards. Speaking of entry hazards, Forretress is a decent partner as it can set up Spikes and more importantly, Toxic Spikes, which aid in Arceus’ stalling ability. Combined with Iron Head’s high flinch chance, enemy Groudon and Kyogre can be worn down quickly.</p>

    [TEAM OPTIONS]
    <p>Kyogre is quite often Steel Arceus’ top teammate due to its ability to switch in on Fire-type attacks and weaken them with Drizzle. In addition, Kyogre can sometimes handle Groudon and Garchomp, who plague Steel Arceus with their STABed Earthquake. In the rain, however, Water-type attacks are boosted and strong shots from Palkia and Kyogre can break through Arceus if it does not get enough boosts in time. Palkia, Latias, and Latios are excellent partners for this reason; Latias and Latios also resist all three of Arceus’ weaknesses and vice versa. With Calm Mind, they can handle Fighting-type Arceus. Giratina-O is also resistant or immune to all of Steel Arceus’ weaknesses and vice versa, and can lure out Heatran and destroy it with Earthquake. Giratina-O is also immune to Rapid Spin, protecting your entry hazards and allowing Arceus to continue abusing its ability to force switches to its full potential </p>

    <p>Arceus appreciates entry hazard support like many other Pokemon, but they become crucial when Arceus is using Roar, allowing Arceus to rack up incredible amounts of damage on its supposed counters. Deoxys-S and Forretress are great candidates for setting up Spikes (and in Forretress’ case, Toxic Spikes). The former can set up entry hazards quickly and allows Arceus to bring out its wrath early. Although Forretress shares Arceus’ weakness to Fire-type attacks, it can lay down Toxic Spikes which complement Arceus’ stalling ability. Although Drought increases Arceus’ weakness to Fire –type attacks, Groudon is the only common user of Stealth Rock in the Uber metagame that does not share Arceus’ weaknesses. Drought can also be beneficial to Arceus as it allows it to set up on Latios and Latias more easily by cutting down Thunder’s accuracy. In certain cases, Drought can aid against Kyogre, even though it requires Groudon to switch into Kyogre safely.</p>

    <p>Ho-Oh and Heatran are good partners for Arceus should you have Drought support in your team. Ho-Oh’s high Special Defense and resistance to Fire-type Attacks allow it to take on some of Arceus’ greatest threats such as Heatran and Choice Scarf Palkia and Dialga. Ho-Oh is also immune to Ground-type attack and is resistant to Fighting-type attacks. Although Heatran shares Arceus’ weaknesses to Fighting- and Ground- type moves, it can fully take advantage of Fire-type attacks aimed at Arceus due to Flash Fire.</p>

    [OPTIONAL CHANGES]
    <p> Earth Power on the Calm Mind set can be useful against Heatran, but it leaves Arceus open against Kyogre. It also lacks Roar’s and Iron Defense’s utilities. Ice Beam can work over Judgment on the Calm Mind set to OHKO Garchomp, Rayquaza, and Shaymin-S, but Judgment is generally better as it hits Pokemon that are neutral to Ice Beam and Thunder such as Wobbuffet, Tyranitar, and Mewtwo for greater damage. Furthermore, a neutral Judgment is nearly as powerful as a super-effective Ice Beam. Judgment is also easily the superior attack if you decide to use only one attack. Stone Edge can be used on the Swords Dance set to hit Ho-Oh for super effective damage, but is generally not worth sacrificing a moveslot.</p>

    [COUNTERS]
    <p>Ho-Oh is Steel Arceus’s greatest fear. Its high Special Defense and resistance to Judgment allow it to soak up hits with incredible ease and roast it with Sacred Fire. Ho-Oh also destroys the physical set similarly. However, Ho-Oh must be wary of Calm Minded Thunder. Stealth Rock can also make it difficult for Ho-Oh to defeat Arceus. Heatran is a large issue to the first set due to its quadruple resistance to Judgment. It can melt Arceus with STAB Flamethrower and restrict its options with Taunt and Roar. However, in the rain, Heatran can not do much to Arceus and is taken down by repeated Thunders. Heatran also defeats the Swords Dance set if it lacks Earthquake. Groudon in general is an issue as it increases the strength of Fire-type attacks and can hit Arceus with a super-effective Earthquake. Garchomp is faster than Arceus and can take a boosted Judgment or Iron Head, and 2HKOes back with Earthquake. It can OHKO Arceus if it is holding a Choice Band. Fire Arceus resists Judgment and can dispatch of Steel Arceus with its own Judgment, but once again, rain can be an issue. Without Thunder, Lucario can survive two unboosted Judgment and OHKO with Close Combat.</p>

    <p>Swords Dance Arceus detests Choice Scarf Palkia if it does not get enough Cosmic Power boosts in time. Arceus is incapable of OHKOing Palkia even with a boosted Earthquake and is 2HKOed by Surf in the rain, or 2HKOed by Fire Blast in the sun. Bulky Calm Mind and Choice Scarf Kyogre are also issues. The former isn’t even 2HKOed by Swords Danced Earthquake, while it can 2HKO back with Surf. Even if Arceus uses Cosmic Power to boost its bulk, Kyogre can essentially neutralize it through Calm Mind. Choice Scarf Kyogre is faster and 2HKOes with Surf or Water Spout, and is not OHKOed by Swords Danced Earthquake even after Stealth Rock and Spikes damage! Skarmory’s high physical Defense, resistance to Iron Head, and immunity to Earthquake, allow it to set up Spikes with ease and phaze Arceus away. However, it can not beat Arceus one on one. Similarly, Giratina can burn Arceus, and Lugia can set up a Reflect and Whirlwind it away, but they can not take on Arceus one on one easily.</p>


    Ehh this is a bit tacky but meh....
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  2. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    I think there's a case for Thunder being main slash on the CM variant. You beat Bulk Up Dialga and CM Latias anyway, right? Thunder lets you not die to Kyogre that come in on you as well and gives you usable coverage (beating up the likes of Scizor before it can Superpower you).
  3. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    You actually don't beat CM Latias you tie with it x_x, and you can't really switch into BU DIalga without Roar since Judgment doesn't do a lot and it's only a matter of time before Bulked Up Outrages 2HKO (granted, you need 5, but Arceus also needs 5 CMs to 2HKO Dialga with Judgment and if you're switching into BU Dialga, it'll be ahead). Roar ensures that stuff like Wobbuffet won't "just waltz in" (which it sorta does otherwise, though repeated Judgments kill it) Also, I didn't mention this yet in the analyses but it does help being able to Roar away enemy Arceus. Both Roar and Thunder are equally good so it doesn't really matter where they go tbh
  4. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Yeah but Roar changes Arceus' role a lot as it becomes a lot more preoccupied with switching into and phazing threats rather than being a threat itself. Without Thunder quad Steel resists are really problematic (as is Ho-Oh). Plus you get to eat Skarm before it can Spike or try to phaze you.

    Wobb is a really good point though.
  5. Great Sage

    Great Sage

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    Roar doesn't change Arceus's role. The fact is that you do not beat anything else with Calm Mind without it (Latias, Latios, other Arceus, etc.); you're forced to CM war, and you never, ever want to be on the losing end of that. Roar is actually probably the most valuable of the three options, since it can catch a lot of things off-guard and open up a sweep. Scizor isn't as big an issue as you might think. As long as Arceus has at least 42% health when Scizor switches in, it stalls out the typical Ubers Choice Band set. Superpower does 85% maximum, so if Arceus uses Recover as Scizor uses Superpower, it's left with minimum 7% of its health. After Recovering again, the deflated second Superpower only does 57%, leaving Arceus with just a sliver of health left. However, after the second Superpower, Recover's healing wins out. Of course, "critical hit", but Superpower only has 8 PP, so it's not as big of an issue.
  6. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Nuff said, everything looks good.
  7. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    edit: as we decided, a mention of a defensive set in OC is fine, I'll leave this post for reference if you need it
    .
    Steel "Support" as promised...

    [SET]
    name: Stallceus
    move 1: Toxic
    move 2: Cosmic Power
    move 3: Flamethrower / Roar
    move 4: Recover
    item: Iron Plate
    evs: 100 HP / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Why this set deserves to be on site
    -Effortlessly takes Dragon-type attacks, as well as many other attacks due to its great set of resistances as a Steel-type
    -Incredibly hard to take down with Cosmic Power and Recover

    Additional comments
    -Toxic Spikes support, as well as entry hazards in general
    -Toxic is for Pokemon immune to Toxic Spikes, while Flamethrower roasts the Steel-types immune to Toxic (Poison-type isn't really used at all in Ubers, besides Poison-type Arceus)
    -Roar is useable over Flamethrower to take advantage of entry hazards and stop set-up attempts
    -Light Screen or Reflect are useable over Cosmic Power, but it leaves Arceus vunerable to special or physical attacks depending on the screen you choose.

    Counters:
    - Ho-Oh destroys you if you don't have a lot of Cosmic Powers
    - Heatran utterly walls you if you lack Roar (and that can be Taunted), and is immune to Poison
    - Powerful attackers can cause some grief if they come in before Arceus gets enough Cosmic Powers, like Choice Specs Kyogre
    - Kyogre is a problem, due to its rain weakening Flamethrower
    - Pokemon with Taunt that don't mind Flamethrower can cause some problems if Toxic Spikes aren't down
    - Without Flamethrower, Forretress can come in and set up entry hazards while spinning yours away

    Teammates:
    - Groudon provides sunlight, boosting the power of Arceus' Flamethrower
    - Something to set down hazards and/or Toxic Spikes for Arceus to abuse
    - Latias because she covers Kyogre's weaknesses perfectly, and can handle Kyogre
    - Giratina(-O) to spinblock so your hazards don't go to waste
    - (edit) Kyogre if you are using Roar to mitigate the Fire weakness
  8. Theorymon

    Theorymon Watch The Space
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    Of course Steel Arceus is getting approved!
  9. Conflict

    Conflict And who are you, the proud lord said That I must bow so low?
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    Yeah used this and i can approve of its effectiveness.

    Maybe mention Ice Beam as an option over Judgement on the first set? I had very good success with Ice Beam instead of Judgement. It helps tremendously with Groudon, Dialga.
  10. lati0s

    lati0s

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    judgement only does marginally less against groudon and dialga compared with ice beam because of stab and the plate boost and it hits almost twice as hard on mewtwo, darkrai wobuffet and other neutral targets
  11. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    Ice Beam does help against Rayquaza and Garchomp (not really with Groudon and Dialga since Judgment nearly does the same to them), so it will be mentioned in Optional Changes, at least. However, Judgment helps smash things that are neutral to both Ice Beam and Thunder - like Wobbuffet (who could really just step in now), Mewtwo, and Tyranitar (Judgment hits SE. Oh and ttar can 2hko with Low Kick / CB EQ).
  12. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    DOUBLE POST
    Content and writeup done - I haven't grammared (lol) it yet though.
  13. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    Please excuse my ignorance.. but why are all these Arceus analyses showing up? Is he being unbanned? And why do they have all 100 for EVs?
  14. Neto-senpai

    Neto-senpai

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    100 EV's are because the only way to legally obtain Arceus is from the Toys R'US giveaway, which was level 100, so it can only be EV'd by items that can only reach 100 EV's per stat.
  15. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    Arceus has been allowed on PO for quite some time now.

    and this
  16. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    Most of your " ' "s were words version of them, and I think I fixed most of them.

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