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Discussion in 'Past Generation Archives' started by Psylink, Jun 6, 2013.
Thank you Furai. I've written it up and I'm ready for my 3rd Quality Control check.
To outrun Rayquaza and Kyurem-W, you need 168 EVs with a neutral nature, you only need 56 Speed EVs with a Timid nature.
I don't think you are setup bait for Arceus-Ghost or Giratina-O. You can just burn them both and Roar them out if they are greedy. Arceus-Steel makes a great check to them, and instead put in Arceus-Fighting or Ground. Those two hit you hard without needing a boost. Mention Ho-Oh and Reshiram as well, they are immune to burn and can OHKO you. Even if the weather is rainy, Arceus-Steel does not like to stay in on them and Ho-Oh will likely burn you as well, it even has Earthquake. Reshiram can Focus Blast if it really needs to, but Specs Blue Flare still hits you hard in rain. Stalling for a miss isn't a good idea as it also has a 20% burn rate and a critical hit will OHKO.
It is now up.
This thread needs some loving :(
I'd like you to expand on your teammates section a little bit more. You can add a little bit more on Kyogre, since Steelceus can tank blows from Latias all day, a Pokemon that Kyogre has trouble with. For entry hazards, you can mention Forretress, Skarmory, Ferrothorn and other Spikers. One thing to note is that this Steelceus, since he has very little offensive presence, is hazard bait itself, so be sure to add mentions of Rapid Spnners (eg Forretress, Tentacruel, Excadrill, Kabutops) and Magic Bouncers. I'd also mention Pokemon that can switch into Steelceus' weaknesses as well. You've got Kyogre already, but Latias is also good. Giratina formes, especially Giratina-O, also synergise very well with Steelceus. Landorus-T is good for Ground and Fighting moves, as is Gliscor.
I would say mentioning Magic Bouncers as team-mates is fairly redundant as Arceus-Steel is the opposite of a good partner to them, i.e. He can't threaten entry haxard users at all, making it significantly harder for Espeon/Xatu to do their job. Spinners are cool though, since this set is spike bait as hell- although Arceus-Steel itself doesn't need them much to perform its job. All spinners are really bad against sun, and so is this Arceus set. Maybe a mention of how this set being spikes bait and solving that by adding a spinner might makes your team weaker to sun?
Right now I want to thank you for helping me with this. I'm new here, so you've been a really big help, pointing out a fucking shit ton of stuff I would normally miss. Thank you in advance for getting this on Smogon. I've made all of the changes.
that was to shrang lol
You're points seem like they contradict what you're trying to get across imo. If Arceus is Spikes bait, then wouldn't you want to switch in a Magic Bounce user?
EDIT: TRIPLE POST, SO SORRY!
So now stuff is different here on Smogon, so now would be a great time to get stuff done! I'm going to do plenty of edting and I'm hoping for my last QC check. It's good to be back!
I've changed the title of the set to Utility Support, as it uses Ice Beam to take down many of the things it switches on with Ice Beam, while walling them at the same time, and I've updated the title slightly as well.
Just a quick note, I understand that English isn't your first language but you really should try to proofread before GP. I'm not trying to be mean but it's really hard to read what you wrote and I imagine the GP team won't be very eager to check it themselves.
Anyways, on to the nitpicking:
Remove the mention of Groudon in the second sentence, it has EQ and Drought so Kyogre's Drizzle isn't helping you.
Remove the mention of Groudon as setup bait. There isn't much point in saying it sets up on Steelarc just to say it actually doesn't in the next sentence.
You should probably go ahead and merge the whole setup bait bit into the section on teammates. That way you can point out it's weaknesses and follow up with potential partners to deal with them.
I kinda want to see a sentence along the lines of "As the EV spread for Arceus-Steel can easily be changed to suit one's needs.." before the alternate EV spread options to really make it clear that Arceus is incredibly flexible.
Sorry, I don't understand what "Frail sweepers are good as well, as they have a revenge killer checked and taken care of. Mewtwo is a good example." is supposed to mean. Could you explain it to me?
In general I feel like you talk about what Steelarc's moves do and what partners you should run with it but not much about what the set itself is meant to accomplish. (besides being a support set) Can you include a short bit about what the set is designed to do and why one would want to use it over another support Steel type like Jirachi or Ferrothorn?
That first sentence is an insult. English is my first language. I don't feel I'm qualified for this. You can continue this thread if you would like.
If you still want me to do this, too bad, I suck.
Oh, I'm really sorry. I made a false assumption and made an ass of you and me. It wasn't intended as an insult, though. You just got to fix up your prose a bit and things will work out. If you still really don't want to do it, we can always reassign. I would hate to see you give up your chance because of a stupid blunder on my part.
Thank you for that. I was in a bad mood yesterday, but I'll do it now! I still need to make the fixes though, and I'll edit this post when I do.
EDIT: I didn't realize I was going to be busy all day today, so I'll have it up either GMT -7 at 11:00 PM or tommorow morning. However, I've already made a little bit of progress, so that's good.
So I've finished
I've applied all these changes, however I've made some changes of my own.
I've made quite a few changes to the Set Comments, which elaborates more on why this Arceus sucks at checking/countering Extreme Killer. I felt this was necessary because Shrang wanted me to put that in earlier, and I did, of course, but I felt that I didn't give enough reasons to why you should use this to check/counter Ex. Killer.
I've removed the frail sweepers part. That was extremely vague on my part, and no matter how many times I'd tried to tweak that sentence to explain more, it wouldn't come out right, and it wouldn't make it past GP too.
As for the part about using it over Jirachi and Ferrothorn, I'd changed the title of set from "Defensive" to "Utility Support". I feel that this Arceus set has a niche in the metagame. I felt it was a little different from other defensive Steel-types. However, I couldn't justify it very much before. However, when you said that it's extremely flexible, that gave me inspiration to justify it's niche and use in the Ubers metagame. Yes, Jirachi is flexible, and Ferrothorn has access to entry hazards, but there are some key differences between them:
1. Reliable recovery
2. Roar and Perish Song
3. Higher base stats than Rachi/Better offenses than Ferro (Ice Beam is part of the niche imo)
I think this has a niche for the following:
1. See last list.
2. Good check to Dragon-types in general.
I'll add all this niche info in the Set Comments.
You got me back from losing hope in this set in two freaking posts! That is a job well done, and thank you very much for the advice you've given me so far!
Oh yes, I had a question I forgot to post: With all of my new content in here, does anyone think this is a bit of tl:dr?
EDIT: Aaaaaaaaaand another one: What does the tag Copyediting mean?
It's fine for the analysis to be tl;dr if it isn't fluff or repetition, and this analysis tends to have a bit of the latter, however, it can get fixed in the copyediting stage. Speaking of which, the copyediting stage is when the GP team (and amateur checkers) come in and make grammatical changes to your analysis. After doing so, they will stamp your analysis (much like QC) to indicate that they're done and that you should implement their changes. Once you get two GP checks (maybe more, if GP thinks it's necessary), you will have your analysis completed and ready to go on-site. More info about the GP team can be found here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/grammar-prose-team-queue-2-grammatic-boogaloo.3471267/ (sorry for the sloppy link, I'm on my tablet and it isn't letting me hyperlink :[)
Thanks Rohail! I'm just full of questions, huh? Two more questions, just because I'm new! :D
1. What is a hyperlink, and how do I use it? (This is probably going to get me a tag that says noob)
2. Do I have to do anything else once I get my final GP check?
No problem, it's good to ask questions, however, to keep the thread uncluttered, you should just VM me or another member your questions instead of posting them here.
A hyperlink is a link that is sort of inside a word, this is an example of such. You can hyperlink by highlighting a word(s) and then clicking the hyperlink button on your toolbar (the place where you can bold and stuff), after doing so, a message will pop up asking you to enter the web address that you're trying to link to, do so, and you're done.
You don't have to do anything after you get your last GP check unless a member of GP or QC asks to make some last minute changes.
Note: You can also use this thread to ask simple questions (read the OP first!) that can be answered by anyone.
Thanks! I'll use that a lot, as I'm a noob here :D.
I might make a big sweep again like I did earlier today, so expect big changes! Once that's all sorted out I just want more nitpicks and possibly a QC check! That's just wishful thinking though.
EDIT: Dang, you're right Rohail, that was a whole paragraph of Arceus-Normal crap I needed to edit. I also got a whole copy of a part of AC that was merged via Melee Mewtwo's advice, so that was a waste! We'll see how it goes in GP checks though!
Two other attacks worth mentioning in AC are Stone Edge and Magic Coat. Stone Edge is good for nailing all the Ho-Oh that love to switch into Steel Arceus while Magic Coat removes that weakness to Spike setters and can even anti lead Deo S. (252 Atk Deoxys-S Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Steel: 112-134 (25.28 - 30.24%) -- guaranteed 4HKO)
Theorymon should nitpick this soon...
Sorry for the long wait! Before I get started with the content stuff, me and Oglemi talked about the prose in this analysis: I think it's going to need quite a bit of work before I can approve! Don't worry though, me and him are gonna team up to help you with that, there will be a post about that late today / tomorrow!
Anyways, here's some nitpicks about the content.
-When it comes to selling points over other Steels, you should mention Steel Arceus's Special Defense. 120 HP / 120 SpD pretty much makes it the most specially bulky Steel. Combine that with the base 120 defense, and you pretty much have Uber's bulkiest Steel!
- Mention Sun in general as a problem. The moment you see stuff like Ho-Oh, Reshiram, and Heatram, Steel Arceus is NOT going to be happy!
-Speaking of sun, I think a mention of Flamethrower would be nice for AC. Magic Coat is better for rain teams, but on sun teams, it's nice for Forretress and Excadrill switch-ins
- Change "pink blob" to Chansey / Blissey.
-Move the Speed EV stuff to the first paragraph.
-I'd personally split the second paragraph into two paragraphs: one for dealing with Spikers, the other for dealing with Steelceus's weaknesses.
- I think Ho-Oh deserves a mention as a teammate. Not only does it offer great offensive presence, but it also is immune to Ground AND resists Fire and Fighting type moves! And of course, it's especially great on Sun teams.
-I'm not sure about Mewtwo as a teammate. Mewtwo is a great Pokémon and can certainly work on teams with Steel Arceus, but it doesn't provide any particularly special synergy.