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Steel Horse

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by tuyuka39, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. tuyuka39

    tuyuka39

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Steel Horse

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Hey Smogon community! I've been playing pokemon for about four months now, but just recently began looking at RMTs on this site. I've found that they are very informative, interesting, and I've definitely learned a lot from reading the advice given by more experienced players. So that's my little introduction, now let's get on to the team. This team is highlighting Cobalion, one of the most underused, underrated pokemon out there. It's very versatile, and is supported very well by it's teammates. Along with showing the power of Cobalion, I wanted to create a non weather team that could still hold its own against standard rain and sand teams. I think this team does that relatively well, due to my Rotom/Celebi/Gyara combo against rain, Cobalion/Celbi against sand, and Hydreigon does work against sun. The rest of the guys are there mostly because they work well with each other and throw my opponent off guard with their sets. I've reached over 1600 with it on PS, so I know it works to some extent. However, I'm definitely open to suggestions. Here's the team.


    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 SpA / 232 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Pain Split
    -Thunder Wave


    Specially defensive Rotom-W is definitely one of the most versatile pokemon in the game. It can hit relatively hard, as well as take hits pretty easily. It forms my defensive core consisting of it and Celebi, who I think complement each other very nicely. I was using Will-O originally, but somebody suggested that I just go with the pain split to have some recovery available for Rotom, and it has ended up working. Not much else to say, expect for take a look at how much of a badass he is. He's a freaking washing machine.

    [​IMG]




    [​IMG]

    Hydreigon @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
    Mild Nature
    -Fire Blast
    -Superpower
    -Draco Meteor
    -Roost

    Along with Cobalion, Hydreigon is an extremely underrated poke. It hits incredibly hard, and has got some decent bulk. I wanted a couple strong special attackers on this team, and I believe that every serious team should have a dragon on it, so I picked this guy. It's basically just used to rip holes in the opponents team, which it does really well. I originally had EQ on it, but changing that to Roost was suggested to me and I actually really like the change. Hydreigon hits so many things really hard, that it's nice to be able to recover some the damage it has taken from hits and life orb recoil. It definitely puts in a ton of work against a lot of teams that aren't used to seeing it. Last but not least, I love the Dark/Dragon typing, as well as how cool this three headed beast looks. Just look at that sexy picture.

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]

    Cobalion @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 228 SpA / 252 Spe / 28 Atk
    Naive Nature
    -Volt Switch
    -Hidden Power Ice
    -Stealth Rock
    -Close Combat

    The poke we've all been waiting for. Being that it's UU, not many people are prepared to take on Cobalion. While in the shadow of it's more powerful brethren (Keldeo, Terrakion, and even Virizion) it has on thing that none of the others do: extreme bulk. It can take a plethora of physical hits, and takes almost no damage from stealth rocks. Although it doesn't have the best special defense, it can still take some special attacks due to its great typing. I used to run Sub/SD, but somebody mentioned that Terrakion has the exact same set, only it utilizes it much better. So I decided to go with the mixed set, which works very well. Given that Cobalion has pretty good speed, I'm able to volt switch out of situations with ease, as well as get up my rocks so I don't have to use a moveslot for SR on any of my other pokes. I'm very thankful that this beast has not been fully utilized in OU; I get to keep him for myself!

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 240 HP / 232 SpD / 36 SpD
    Calm Nature
    -Psychic
    -Recover
    -Giga Drain
    -Baton Pass


    Originally a Ferrothorn, it was pointed out to me that I was very weak to fighting type moves. By switching to Celebi, I can take those attacks, as well as having a great special wall to go along with my Rotom. This thing works perfectly against sand teams, as people will always switch T-tar in on it. You then Baton Pass into Cobalion, who takes no damage from the pursuit and gets an attack boost due to justified. From there you have a completely free Close Combat, and can simply volt switch out next turn. I'm going with Giga Drain over T-wave or Stealth Rocks just because I like having the extra coverage, and I already have those two moves on other pokes.

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
    Gengar @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunderbolt
    - Destiny Bond

    Gengar is used as a spin blocker and fighting switch, as well as catching the opponent off guard with Destiny Bond. Most people run sub/ 3 attack gengar, or disable, so they usually aren't expecting to be taken down after killing it. The other three moves are simply for coverage, and thanks to gengars awesome speed, can often lead to a sweep. I needed a scarfer on the team as well, and this thing is great at coming in on fast threats and taking them out. Also, scarfed destiny bond works wonders when you know you're about to die and your opponent thinks they outspeed. Along with Hydreigon it forms a solid special attacking core, which is very important on most teams, including this one. I'm not sure about whether to run black sludge or life orb, given that I do like keeping gengar around as spin blocker. Plus, poison is a cool type and Gengar is the only decent one. You gotta give that part of him some love!


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]

    Gyarados @ Leftovers

    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 248 Atk / 204 Spe / 56 HP
    Adamant Nature
    -Substitue
    -Dragon Dance
    -Bounce
    -Waterfall


    Not an original member of the team, but Gyarados has far exceeded my expectations. I never realized how hard it could hit with just these two moves and a couple of DDs. It also covers my extreme Volcarona weakness thanks to it resisting both of the moth's attacks. Now that I've switched Cobalion's set up, Gyarados now serves as my only setup sweeper, which is always great to have on a team. The very best part about Gyarados is that it is part Flying, even though it can't fly. That shit is hard to pull off, so props to Gyara!

    [​IMG]

    Well, there's the team. I think it works together very well, and has sets that are effective but out of the ordinary. However, by no means is it perfect, and I know that. Like I said, I'm very open to any comments/ suggestions that people may have. Thanks!

    [​IMG]
    Just a hot pic of dat Horse
  2. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,600
    Hi, nice team with Cobalion !
    It's some kind of bulky offense, but I see a way to improve it.

    The weaknesses :

    - Let's be honest, you're weak to Fight. You have 3 pokemons weak to it, another one (Rotom-W) who can't take a physical hit well (because those CloseCombat gonna hit hard) and 2 weak resists.
    So, you're open to many threats. Stuff like Breloom kilsl everybody, you just can't switch anything againt him and that's a big weakness. Gengar can barely take him if you don't get unlucky with the rolls, but again, if he decides to switch away and come back later to get another kill.. there's nothing you can do.
    So basically, Terrakion, Keldeo will be a massiv pain for your team.
    And, the worst could be Weavile, hitting really HARD everybody with Low Kick, and killing your two Fighting resists with Pursuit and Ice Shard. Superpower Mamoswine is a little the same.


    Well, I'll stop here for the weaknesses, it's already a big one and it opens your team so many things that I won't bother listing team (Alakazam with Psychock/FocusBlast/HPIce and Sash is another example, I also see Sun teams being issues but well, nothing surprinsing).

    So, let's go straight to..

    My changes :

    - I really believe that Ferrothorn is a liability here, stacking another Steel is probably not a good idea when you have a serious answer to Fighting types. On the other hand, Ferrothorn also slows down the tempo of your team badly. I see many people playing it just to cover some holes in their defense when there is a pokemon that could do it just better and still maintain the tempo.
    Celebi is this kind of pokemon, working really well with the rest of your team, I really see a Psychic type pulling his weight in this team. This way, you got a switch in to many Fighting attacks as well as a pokemon supporting your team and able to pressure your opponent. It does fix the massiv Breloom weakness, the Alakazam one and the Keldeo's one, and gives you many other valuable advantges.
    I'm thinking about a classic Specially defensive set, a great partner for Rotom-W because they both act the same.

    - Now you're still weak (but less) to some strong physical hitters right ? .. Well I see a simplist yet efficient change right now. Changing your Landorus to a Landorus-T gives you a better switch in to many physical threats like Terrakion while increasing the power of your attacks. You lose in speed, however Celebi can provide a ThunderWave support, meaning that with Rotom-W you should be able to lure, wall, and potentially paralyse the Scarfed Special attackers (because it's usually Dragons or Special attackers who are faster that a Scarf Lando-T, with the exception of Terrakion for instance that you cover already decently).
    By the way, this change won't change too much you way of playing this team, that's why it could be a really good idea to try it. You lose the Sand Force, but let' be honest, you should cash on taking advantage of the enemy's team the less possible in the team building.

    - Just take Pain Split over WoW on Rotom-W, you just never feel the need and the possibility to use both in a game. However, getting a healing move is something that Rotom-W badly needs. If you had a Wish support I'd have said.. "Why not." but here, just take the safe option.


    THE SETS :

    Show Hide


    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    240 HP / 232 SpD / 36 Spe
    Calm Nature
    - Recover
    - Baton Pass
    - Thunder Wave
    - Psychic

    Psychic because I think the coverage would be beneficial, to be let Venusaur kill you before, to kill the Breloom you're supposed to wall etc
    You should "act like" you have Giga Drain as much as you can, it's really easy to play with this and surprise the opponent who will realise in the end "Oh, so in fact, all this time Celebi had no Grass move".
    Baton Pass is to escape pursuiters, and give free set-up to Cobalion !

    [​IMG]
    Landorus-T @ Choice Scarf
    Intimidate
    56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-Turn
    - Stealth Rock

    If you don't like SR on a Scarfer, put in over TWave on Celebi. However, it's really cool to secure the SR setting in any case if needed. Moreover, this is nice to "mind game", because you can effectively bluff a defensive set this way.


    I hope I helped, and good luck for your team.


    TL;DR :

    Show Hide
    Celebi > Ferrothorn
    Landorus-T > Landorus
    Pain SPlit > WoW on Rotom-W
  3. tuyuka39

    tuyuka39

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Thanks for the rate, Remedy. I'll definitely try out your suggestions, as it's true, I've had some trouble handling Breloom before. I tried putting Psychic on Gengar to help out, but I think these changes are much more necessary.
  4. toshimelonhead

    toshimelonhead Raising Whitney's Miltank

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,118
    Hi there!

    I really like this team but there are some things that could be tweaked. First off, Remedy's suggestions are a good idea, especially Celebi > Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn is dead weight since Cobalion has no problem taking care of the Lati@s, Kyurems, etc of the world. Ferro also gives an easy set up for Volcarona, which is this team's biggest problem at the moment since Quiver/FBlast/Bug Buzz/Giga Drain is only checked by Landorus. I would switch the Scarf role to Gengar but keep the same set. No one expects Scarf because of the Pursuit problem, but Destiny Bond is a great poison pill since Gengar is so frail. It's a nice way to catch Tyranitar and other pursuiters.

    For Cobalion, I would experiment with a few other sets. The problem with SubSD is that it is completely outclassed by Terrakion (you could try running Terrakion + Cobalion now that Ferro is gone). Cobalion's great strength is the ability to wall dragons and either Volt Switch or control hazards. There are three sets that might be worth trying: Mixed Attacker, Defensive, and SubWorkUp. I'll post each below for your reference, but all three help Cobalion take care of dragons, which is its niche in OU. Not much can tank Draco Meteors and Outrages and Volt Switch at the same time. Cobalion has much more potential than running a wannabe Terrakion set, so use it to your advantage. I personally have not tested these, but I see the first two as standard. SubWork might not be as good, but it's inspired from the SubCM idea. Cobalion doesn't need more defense boosting, but 90 base attack isn't KOing much. I've left the EVs for now--feel free to play around with Honko's damage calc to optimize them as I am sure there is something better out there.

    The last suggestion is to try Gyarados in that last slot over Landorus. Gyarados provides a great answer for Volcarona and Keldeo, two of the biggest OU threats at the moment. Like Cobalion, there are multiple sets worth trying. A Defensive set with Thunder Wave would help Cobalion set up, while Gyara could also take over the match with a DD/Waterfall/Earthquake/Double-Edge set, as well. Sub Moxie could also be a better sweeper than Cobalion currently. I'll post three sets below for you to try.


    Cobalion (open)

    Cobalion @ Leftovers/Air Balloon
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 28 Atk / 228 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Stealth Rock
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Close Combat

    Cobalion @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 28 Atk / 228 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Work Up
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Substitute

    Cobalion @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 48 Spd / 252 HP / 208 Def
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 30 Spd
    - Close Combat
    - Thunder Wave
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Stealth Rock

    *Note if using the Work Up set put Leaf Storm on Celebi for another Jellicent/Keldeo counter.

    (Air Balloon for switching on Garchomp)


    Gyarados (open)

    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 204 Spd / 56 HP / 248 Atk
    Adamant Nature
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Dance
    - Bounce
    - Waterfall

    Gyarados @ Life Orb
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Double-Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Dance

    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Thunder Wave
    - Dragon Tail
    - Taunt


    Hope this helps.

    Summary

    Gengar -> Scarf
    Ferro -> Remedy's Celebi
    Cobalion -> another set
    Landorus -> Gyarados
    Pictures -> Above pokemon instead of below :)
  5. Nova

    Nova Samsung Alpaca
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,519
    Hi tuyuka39

    This is a solid team you have here. I appreciate your use of some lesser used Pokemon in OU such as Coballion and Hydreigon. Looking at your team, it is threatened by Rock Polish Landorus. After a Rock Polish, he outspeeds your entire team and can really do some damage with its coverage moves of Earth Power / Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ice. Rotom-W can check it, but is 2HKO'ed by Focus Blast granted it hits. Another threat to your team is Quiver Dance Volcarona. After a Quiver Dance, Volcarona can outspeed your entire team and potentially sweep as your only chance of stopping the moth is if Landorus' Stone Edge hits, a move as everyone knows just isn't very reliable. For these threats, I suggest trying a Substitute Dragon Dance Gyarados with a moveset of Substitute / Dragon Dance / Waterfall / Bounce in the place of Coballion. Gyarados can check Landorus, being immune to Earth Power, resists Focus Blast, and can take HP Ice while destroying the genie with Waterfall. He also resists both of Volcarona's STABs and can take it out with either Waterfall or Bounce. Sub Dragon Dance Gyarados is a great set up sweeper that can fill Coballion's role. Intimidate helps drops the opposing Pokemon's attacks, allowing it to set up a Sub and then start using DD. With his great bulk, Intimidate, and Substitute, it can set up on a plethora of Pokemon in OU such as Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Tentacruel. Waterfall and Boucnce provide great coverage alongside each other.

    Now for some smaller changes. On Rotom-W, Pain Split should be used over Thunder Wave to provide a pseudo-recovery move for the washing machine. On Hydreigon, I'd use Roost over Earthquake. Roost allows him to heal off Life Orb recoil which greatly increases his survivability. You don't really need Earthquake as Superpower already hits most of the things it does for Super Effective and things like Tentacruel and Toxicroak are hit very hard by Draco Meteor.

    Hope I helped and good luck with your team!


    Set:
    Show Hide
    Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 56 HP / 248 Atk / 204 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    -Substitute
    -Dragon Dance
    -Waterfall
    -Bounce



    tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Coballion ----> Sub+Dragon Dance Gyarados
    Thunder Wave on Rotom-W ---->Pain Split
    Earthquake on Hydreigon ----> Roost
  6. tuyuka39

    tuyuka39

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Thanks for the rates guys! I made most of the changes you guys suggested, and I think it makes for a very solid team. Remedy, I get what you're trying to say about Giga Drain on Celebi, but I really just prefer having it to give some extra cover. Also, I don't feel like an extra T-wave/SR user is needed. I can now take on Breloom and Volcarona without a problem, and still have agood amount of offensive firepower. Any other suggestion or rates would be great, thanks again!
  7. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    167
    Hey there,

    I'm making an attempt to shorten my rates, and this is my 1st time trying a different way, so I'll try to pump out as much information as I can in a small amount of text. First of all, Terrakion seems to be a huge threat as it literally OHKOs / 2HKOs (Celebi & Rotom-W) every member of your team with the correct move. Specially Defensive Celebi doesn't seem to be doing anything for your team in particular because SDef Rotom-W covers the same things. To help with Terrakion and other fighting-types, change Celebi to a Physically Defensive set. It sponges the majority of fighting moves much better since they're usually physically based and still does a good job absorbing strong special attacks often seen in rain. You'll have a reliable Terrakion switch-in with this, but of course, make sure to avoid X-Scissor on choiced sets.

    Next up, Gengar's set seems a little odd. Thunderbolt doesn't provide great revenge killing coverage at all, and one of the greatest pluses of Scarf Gengar is its immunity to ExtremeSpeed and ability to outspeed +2 Dragonite. For this reason, I'd like to see you change Tbolt to HP Ice, which allows you to revenge kill Dragon Dancing Dragons among other Pokemon like RP Landorus which fails to OHKO you unless it has Psychic. Otherwise, Dragon Dance Dragonite would be a massive threat to this team and force you to Destiny Bond with Gengar, causing you to lose a fighting immunity, Scarfer, and spinblocker.

    One last thing you can try is making Rotom-W the bulky Special Attacking set to hit harder right off the bat. Since Tornadus-T is now banned, you won't take Hurricanes from anything aside from Tornadus or Dragonite, which are both quite rare sets to find. The sets run the exact same moves, but the EV change drastically alters their roles. The EV spread I personally think is the most efficient is 124 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 128 Spd with a Modest nature. It maximizes power, outspeeds Adamant Breloom, and still retains a nice chunk of bulk. Since you are using a relatively offensive team, keeping up momentum and pressure with stronger attacks can twist entire battles into your favor. Hydro Pump is now extremely strong in rain, and barely falls short of Keldeo's power. Celebi still covers strong water attacks and has a much more reliable form of recovery, so I think this change will be quite beneficial.

    That's all I got. Good luck with the team! ^-^

    Celebi set (open)
    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Psychic
    - Recover
    - Baton Pass

    *outspeeds Adamant Breloom

    Rotom-W set (open)
    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 124 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 128 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Pain Split
    - Thunder Wave
  8. tuyuka39

    tuyuka39

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Thanks for the rate, Gimmick. The problem with changing both of my sets is that I won't have anything to take a strong special hit. I agree with changing one, but both seems to leave me vulnerable. Am I wrong about this?
  9. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    167
    I'm not entirely sure how you play your team, but since it seems like it's pretty offensive, you shouldn't worry about switching into every move you possibly can. It just won't happen with offensive teams. If you want a dedicated special wall, I'd go with Rotom-W since you definitely need a way to handle Terrakion, which Celebi does quite nicely. However, Rotom-W doesn't have the greatest bulk or typing to actually function as a special wall. It's really more used as a water- and flying- type resist, which is why there was an influx of SDef Rotom-W during Tornadus-T's era. You won't be switching Rotom-W into Specs Latios Draco Meteors very often since they still 2HKO either way. The Rotom-W I suggested is a powerful and hard-hitting yet somewhat bulky pivot switch, which is very useful on offensive teams to gain momentum. If you're constantly switching into walls to take hits, your momentum would crumble and you won't find as many opportunities to go on the offensive. I will admit one thing, though--I only considered the special attacks commonly seen on rain offensive teams. The combination of Celebi and Rotom-W should cover them just fine. I did ignore other SAtks though, like Gengar's Shadow Ball and Lati@'s Draco Meteor.

    All in all, I don't know your playstyle or how you like to play, so I can't make judgments on that. If you feel uncomfortable without a dedicated special attack absorber on a relatively offensive team, by all means keep Rotom-W. Celebi's job to actually deal with Terrakion is far too important to let go. I definitely feel like the synergy of this team helps you play around several threats, though.

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