Steelix

Discussion in 'Dragonspiral Tower' started by ShravanP, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. ShravanP

    ShravanP

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    [​IMG]
    Steelix

    Our favorite and only giant steel snake is back this gen with a few new toys at its disposal. This thread is dedicated to the discussion of its competitive merit.
    Code:
    [B]#208 Steelix[/B]
    Typing: Steel / Ground
    Ability 1:[INDENT]Rock Head
      Does not take recoil damage from moves that cause recoil. Does not apply to Life Orb.
    [/INDENT][INDENT]Sturdy
      OHKO moves do not affect this pokemon. Additionally, this pokemon will always survive with at least 1HP when hit by any move at 100% health.
    [/INDENT][INDENT]Encourage (Dream World)
      Moves that have secondary effects are increased in power but no longer cause their secondary effect.
    [/INDENT]HP: 75
    Atk: 85
    Def: 200
    SpA: 55
    SDef: 65
    Spd: 30
    
    [B]Level-up Moves:[/B]
      Lv1: Thunder Fang
    Lv1: Ice Fang
    Lv1: Fire Fang
    Lv1: Mud Sport
    Lv1: Tackle
    Lv1: Harden
    Lv1: Bind
    Lv6: Screech
    Lv9: Rock Throw
    Lv14: Rage
    Lv17: Rock Tomb
    Lv22: Strike Down
    Lv25: Sandstorm
    Lv30: Body Purge
    Lv33: Slam
    Lv38: Stealth Rock
    Lv41: Dragonbreath
    Lv46: Curse
    Lv49: Iron Tail
    Lv54: Crunch
    Lv57: Double-Edge
    Lv62: Stone Edge
       
    Strike Down: Physical Rock PP:15 / Power: 50 / Acc: 100
    Makes Flying types susceptible to Ground attacks.
    
    Body Purge: Sharply raises speed.
    
    [B]TM Moves: [/B]
      TM05 - Roar
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM11 - Sunny Day
    TM12 - Taunt
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM23 - Strike Down
    TM26 - Earthquake
    TM27 - Return
    TM28 - Dig
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM37 - Sandstorm
    TM39 - Rock Tomb
    TM41 - Torment
    TM42 - Facade
    TM44 - Rest
    TM45 - Attract
    TM48 - Troll
    TM64 - Explosion
    TM66 - Payback
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM69 - Rock Polish
    TM71 - Stone Edge
    TM74 - Gyro Ball
    TM77 - Psych Up
    TM78 - Smooth Over
    TM80 - Rock Slide
    TM82 - Dragon Tail
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM90 - Substitute
    TM91 - Flash Cannon
    TM94 - Rock Smash
    HM01 - Cut
    HM04 - Strength
    
    
       Dragon Tail: Physical Dragon PP: 10 / Power: 60 / Acc: 90
    Forces the opponent to switch.
    
    Smooth Over: Physical Ground PP: 20 / Power: 60 / Acc: 100
    May decrease the opponent's speed by 1 level.
    
    [B]Egg Moves:[/B]
    Flail
    Block
    Defense Curl
    Rollout
    Rock Blast
    Rock Climb
    Heavy Bomber
    Stealth Rock
    
    Heavy Bomber: Physical Steel PP: 10 / Power: -- / Acc: 100
    Power depends on user's weight.
    Steelix has not changed significantly this generation, but it has, however, gotten a few toys to play with. Here's what's notable:
    • Sturdy Prevents Being OHKO'd by Any Attack
      This means that at 100%, it doesn't have to worry about investing in a great deal of special defense in order to survive a hit. It can if it wants to sponge special attacks, but it is essentially free to invest in other stats now. Furthermore, Steelix 4x resists SR, meaning that switching in will not break Sturdy's effects while running leftovers.
    • Encourage
      With this, Steelix's attacking power gains a much needed boost. Although the amount boosted is yet unknown, things like Elemental Fangs, Rock Slide, and Iron Tail gain a power boost.
    • New Attacks
      Heavy Bomber, Strike Down, and Dragon Tail fit wonderfully with Steelix's general role. Heavy Bomber looks set to make fantastic use of Steelix's massive weight, while Dragon Tail is especially handy for absorbing Outrages and Phazing dragons.
    • It's still slow as shit and dies to most special attacks and even some physical attacks now. Plus it's attacking capabilities are "lol Steelix."
      Not much needs to be explained here.
    I do not envision Steelix's role changing much this generation. However, I do feel that he might have some viability in OU given some of the new options it has available.

    Steelix @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Nature: Sassy (+SDef, -Spd)
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Strike Down / Stone Edge
    ~ Explosion / Roar / Dragon Tail

    All-purpose wall, SR user, and Phazer. I do not see this role changing much this gen.

    Steelix @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Nature: Brave (+Atk, -Spd)
    ~ Curse
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Stone Edge
    ~ Explosion / Fire Fang / Gyro Ball / Heavy Bomber (depending on which is more powerful)

    Curse Steelix makes a return, but with a couple of new toys to play with. Because he now has the cushion of Sturdy, he can forgo the SDef and instead max out on Atk. Max Atk with a boosting nature allows Steelix to OHKO LO Starmie after SR after a Curse. Stone Edge is for general coverage, whereas the last move depends on what you want to hit.

    What do you think? Do the changes this gen allow Steelix to become viable in the main stage or will he remain UU?
  2. MegaKick

    MegaKick

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    I'm liking study - exploding on bulky waters if you have a good spinner. just like passho berry baitlix, except now you get an item. But encourage stone edge is awesome as well.
    I'd rather use gyro ball rather than heavy bomber - even thought steelix is one of the heaviest pokemon, he's also one of the slowest, and most fully evolved mons are pretty heavy anyway while being fast.
  3. Syrachime

    Syrachime

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    Well, hi guys. Name is Syrachime, I'm a bit new to the forums, but not really so for Pokemon as I've been in it since Generation 1. I've been into competitive battling for almost two years now, so I'm pretty familiar with this stuff too.

    But as for me, I'm really glad to see Steelix getting encourage/Sturdy being improved. With Encourage, the curse set gains some extra moves to use alongside earthquake and gyro ball (Providing heavy bomber doesn't replace it as the premier steel move.) Having an elemental fang though hitting almost as hard now as a flamethrower or ice beam? That's really good. Thanks to this ability, all of the secondary effect moves that Steelix gains are either up to or surpass a base power of 90... That's amazing...

    I'm also seeing a unique Stealth Rock setter upper here with sturdy. Being unable to be OHKO by anything means that Steelix is guaranteed to set up stealth rock for your team. Adding to this the ability to have explosion makes him a good suicide lead. And along with either encourage or sturdy, Steelix can now run a pretty destructive Choice Band set (Better with encourage though.)

    Unfortunately with these new toys, I don't think Steelix will make it to OU... As someone who really likes using Steelix often, I can safely say his weaknesses to may common moves, terrible speed, and weak special defense leaves a lot to be desired. But then again, he has gotten quite a boost since the last generation. And being the best counter to any outrage is a plus under his belt. Time will tell just where he ends up being.
  4. Colonel Darren

    Colonel Darren

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    I think Encourage -might- see some use on some Curselix. Keep in mind though, I have a good guess that Sturdy will remain the gold standard. It's that good now.

    What I -really- like for Steelix is Dragon Tail though. This means it can still phaze without being taunted (I think.). Strike Down is also a godsend for the big lug, as it allows Steelix to use the much-better Ground STAB against Flying Pokemon. I'm not sure if it would work on Levitate or not, but if so, I don't see many sets that would choose Stone Edge over Strike Down.
  5. leingodf8

    leingodf8

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    Dragon tail makes steelix's day. Steelix is one of only 3 steels that learn dragon tail (the others being aggron and dialga), and supports the greatest defense of the 3. This makes him one of the best, if not the best, check to outrage abusers.

    Although... its still a tough metagame for steelix to get into. Now that shadow tag shanderaa is possibly running around, he'll almost be forced to run shed shell to escape (though sturdy can help against the thing). Also, with the plethora of fighting types, and the almighty doryuuzu running around, his role as physical wall is questionable, as even these mighty defenses are starting to crumble in comparison to the sheer power thats now avaliable.
  6. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

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    If you're running Curselix, then most likely you're only running Encourage for crunch or the elemental fangs. Crunch getting the encourage boost is helpful for dealing with starmie and the water/ghost jellyfish specifically.

    I honestly believe sturdy Steelix only works as a lead thanks to entry hazards. You also shouldn't try to phaaze with steelix since not many things are scared of him.
  7. conway

    conway

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    I think you should phaze with Steelix because, even though it doesn't scare a lot of pokemons, there are stil a lot of them that can't scratch steelix either.
  8. Abacus

    Abacus

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    I disagree. I think that Steelix got horribly nerfed this generation. Explosion halved in power, everything got more powerful, heavy bomber is practically useless... only his abilities got any better. Sturdy doesn't seem that useful to me? How are you playing Steelix so that it's at full health? It doesn't have reliable recovery, and it's a tank, so it should be switching into moves... Encourage is the only real buff it got, so I guess it's rock slide is 1.3 times more powerful now, whoopeee. Sorry Steelix :(
  9. Forsety

    Forsety

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    It should be noted it was recently discovered Encourage pokemon can cancel out the recoil on Life Orb. So for a offensive Steelix its possible now to get a 1.6x boost to the elemental fangs + Crunch + Rock Slide from Encourage + LO. The catch is the recoil still takes effect if you use a non-Encourage boosted move like Earthquake. Its not implemented on PO but was confirmed to work this way in game.

    But its hard not to see how Steelix won't be swept to the side thanks to the drill mole running around and everyone packing moves to work on it.
  10. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Beatnicks will continue until morality improves.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

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    Yeah, about Doryuuzu: It can't OHKO Steelix with Earthquake. People still seriously underestimate jut how massive Steelix's Defense is.

    You need 252 HP / 16 Def to survive Adamant Choice Band Doryuuzu Earthquake 100% of the time with a Sassy Steelix.

    Life Orb Jolly Doryuuzu does 67-78.5% damage to the same Steelix.

    Baloon Jolly Doryuzu does 51-61% to the same Steelix.

    A Steelix with 252 HP / 76 Defense and Impish avoids a 2HKO from Jolly Baloon Doryuuzu. By the same token, Jolly Choice Band Doryuuzu will fail to 2HKO such a Steelix with one Curse under its belt.

    Unfortunately Steelix has trouble KOing back, so the standard Steelix will probably be Curselix. With no Investment a +1 Steelix Earthquake always OHKOs. A Fire Fang from no investment Sturdy Steelix does 34-40%, no investment Encourage Steelix does 43-52%.

    No investment Life Orb Steelix OHKO's with Earthquake and 2HKO's with Encourage Fire Fang.
  11. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    Well, with Block and Steelix's gargantuan defense, Steelix can make a good Torment Toxic staller

    Name: Cock Blocked by Gary Oak
    Steelix @ Leftovers
    Nature: Sassy/ Careful
    EVS: 252 HP/ 120 Att/ 4 Def/ 132 SpDef
    ~ Block
    ~ Torment/ Taunt
    ~ Toxic/ Substitute
    ~ Gyro Ball/ Earthquake/ Toxic/ Protect

    Kind of a gimmick. Really no point in a phazing move considering you want your opponent to stay in anyway. It's pretty useful on pokemon with a recovery move or Regeneration, considering they can't simultaneously recover or switch out, or just stop all set up/ recovery moves with taunt, leaving you to slowly wear them down With a Protect + Toxic combo or with Earthquake/ Gyro Ball.
  12. pepiux

    pepiux

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    Don´t forget Iron Tail:

    100 BP * 1.3 LO * 1.3 Encourage * 1.5 STAB = 253.5 BP

    That´s like firing (the now nerfed) Explosion without dying. Iron Tail accuracy sucks, though.
  13. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    Well, he's better than he was before.
  14. The 1 and Only Lady Gaga

    The 1 and Only Lady Gaga

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    Assuming that Life Orb recoil is cancelled out by Encourage, the elemental fangs now have a base power of 104, Iron Tail 253.5 and Rock Slide 120.

    The elemental fangs will give him a lot of coverage, and Iron Tail is gonna hit like a truck, even with that mediocre attack.
  15. Niched

    Niched

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    ^Awesome!

    Another possible strategy is using wrap to trap something in. (Hooray for gimmicks!)

    On another note, Body Purge can raise its speed to outspeed, and potentially kill, counters, not to mention solving the Low Kick problem. And it gets screech, which could help it with killing things, especially when combo'd with Wrap to trap them in!

    Also, sweeping steelix is almost as bad as breakable armor Onix.
  16. xscythe

    xscythe

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    I've been using a Steelix lead.
    Sturdy
    Impish
    Leftovers
    Evs Hp 136 Atk 120 Def 252
    Earthquake
    Taunt
    Dragon Tail
    Stealth Rock


    Dragon Tail is so multiverse on a lead for steelix. People used Roar on him before so why not go with the one that can't be taunted. Speaking of taunt, when he is taunted to stop me from puttin up rocks, just dragon tail them out of there and then I can use my rocks. Also, a lot of stat abuser leads are showing up (Urgamoth) so the Butterfly dance I hit them with dragon tail and they wasted a turn.

    Taunt just because it is taunt and the mischiveous fuzzball is everywhere. It is also to taunt a shedninja or blaziken so it can't batton pass and it is forced into struggle mode.

    He has is issues. Water and fighting attacks but the water/ghost makes up for that with immunity to both. Most fire special attackers are 1hit ko from earthquake and sturdy makes sure it happens.

    Espeon is a good check thanks to magic coat, especially coming off of a Uturn and Voltaros (eletric genie) is a pain. Hippowden has also been a problem lead for Steelix.

    I want a rock recovery move if they come out with another generation and then Stellix will be amazing.
  17. lumpor

    lumpor

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    Is it really confirmed that encourage negates lo recoil? Because it sounds really cheesy to me.

    How can sturdy be good? He's a tank, he's not supposed to get one-shotted, even by special attacks.

    Encourage + rockslide gives you a stone edge with 10% more accuracy, which is very nice, since the low accuracy on stone edge is so annoying.
  18. El_Sargento

    El_Sargento

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    Again...

  19. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    Wrapping the opponent is quite a good idea, considering all residual damage counts in the end. Dig is also very good with Steelix because, with the opponent unable to switch, and if you have wrap and toxic, you can Toxic and wrap stall one turn and hit them with the attack too.. it's can be a viable option for stalling, and screech does increase the damage of a rather inferior Dig.
  20. xscythe

    xscythe

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    Personally, I would rather go with Zapdos or Skarmory using Freefall with that combo. At least the bird can roost for stalling purposes. A toxic, Roost, Freefall, thunderbolt set with Zapdos would be pretty fun.
  21. A2ZOMG

    A2ZOMG

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    I think Sturdy is a great ability on Steelix. I just think people need to look at Steelix from a different perspective before dismissing that ability.

    Steelix generally isn't going to survive more than 2 hits against respectable special attackers unless it switches in on a resistance and if it has significant investment. With Sturdy, you don't need to worry about investing in Special Defense, and instead you can focus more on what Steelix is actually good at, which is physical tanking and to a lesser extent physical attacking.
  22. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

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    It would be a good combo, but considering Steelix forces the opponent to stay in with Wrap/Block, you can stall until the opponent's pokemon gets Toxic/Dig KO'd, but the birds do get Roost, so I guess it's a matter of preferance.
  23. Flareon

    Flareon

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    With Sturdy upgrade, Steelix will enjoy the extra survivability. However, it won't like explosion's nerf.
  24. SlyShady

    SlyShady

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    Zapdos also has pressure, which is undoubtedly awesome for stall.
  25. EpicTurtle

    EpicTurtle

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    Sturdy made it better but still seems like the same defensive beast who gets owned by a special attack pokemon.

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