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Strategies for Jimbo, the newcomer, to go up against the heavyweight Steelicks.

Discussion in 'Site Projects' started by Tangerine, Aug 17, 2009.

  1. Tangerine

    Tangerine Where the Lights Are
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    This thread is for the outline of the ingame project for the site. The purpose of the project is simple – to bolster the ingame content of Smogon to promote competitive play.

    Meaning that the ingame content we will be putting on the site is strictly limited to content that supplements competitive play. We will not be covering contests, for example.

    I don’t think it’s a good idea to have it organized as “articles”, but closer to something we have on the Tournament/Wifi Section.

    The ingame section will include the Battle Tower. The battle tower content will involve strategies, important mechanics, searchable lists of the Pokemon/movesets, general idea of how the research on, and of course, summaries of successful lists, and we will also keep up with leaders. Basically, we’ll be putting the thread, on the site. I need to talk with someone familiar with battle tower/frontier before we can get a clear organized outline out though. I’m also still hoping someone like Carl or Peterko will lead this, especially since I’m not that ingrained in the project.

    Now, I’m going to concentrate on this portion, since I have little idea on what to talk about in Battle Tower. This is the actual ingame -> competitive section. Think of this section in this way – it will have information for the legit cartridge player on how to jump into the action. This means the following.

    Item Location Guide Map – however, unlike serebii, instead of listing all items, we only list items/ tms relevant to competitive play. I think this will look best as a MAP, rather than a guide. We can make one of those big world maps, which would be pretty spiffy, and have arrows pointing to all the items/berries. On the same vein, Move Tutor Location Map.

    RNG Mechanics
    – The RNG and how it works, how it affects your game, how to manipulate it.

    Other Material
    – I’m pretty sure WiFi has a lot of “little guides” that can supplement what we have.

    Tips Tricks – Pal Park Trick, GPS Cloning, Emerald Cloning, etc etc, just see Gamefaq’s “Cheats and tricks” section and you’ll have the idea. Of course ours will be better.

    IV/EV Calculator
    – we should ask someone like metalkid, or make our own.

    Speed Running Guide
    – I don’t think we need a comprehensive walk through, per say, although it could be nice (I want admin approval on this). Speed Running Guide (tips, where to go, etc) would help for users who want to reset to catch legendaries or something like that.

    Wifi metagame differences
    - how wifi metagame differs from shoddy metagame.

    Of course, I’m probably missing a lot of stuff. The idea is that they’ll show up as we run this project, and I particularly want to enlist the help of Wifiers/WiFi mods for this project. Of course, such coverage should be expanded to previous games, and it’d be cool to have information like poisoning your mewtwo before battling on RBY or the Shiny IV sets on GSC, etc.
  2. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    Looks good. One question though. Why do we need Item Locations when you can just hack items (except for the purposes of a speed run)?
  3. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
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    Like you know I want to be very heavily involved with this. I'm particularly interested in the Item Location Guide Map, the Tips and Tricks, and the Tutor Location Maps. I'm curious as to your vision on the Item Location Guide Map because I'm not sure what you mean. (Also, I will include all berry patches in this.) I also want to work on this with HG/SS in a month.

    Chris, not everyone has access to AR and/or is ethically OK with the use of it. 'Legit' varies wildly in wi-fi. Whether you think it's silly or not is irrelevant because a surprising amount of people feel this way. Also, see the #insidescoop conversation (you were there and I can't be bothered c/ping) about AR code provision earlier.
  4. Aeroblacktyl

    Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL!
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    do i get a researcher badge for this
  5. mingot

    mingot free agent
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    I am more than happy to code a JavaScript IV calculator.

    I also have a JavaScript version of an IVs to PID application with the added bonus of doing secret ID deduction (very helpful for RNG abuse) sitting in C&C that works quite well. It's ready to go, but has been sitting in limbo because the whole "JavaScript Calculators" thing is not really supported on site at this time as far as I can tell. Do I need to get Jimbo to champion this or? (Reference: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56088)

    Obviously, I will work on getting the DPPt stuff into shape to go onsite. Work has started (Arseus) on the 3rd Gen guides and I will be helping with that effort, as well.

    I'll work on convincing Diesel to make the final push on his chaining guide, but I am not sure how far I am going to get with that.

    I will also look around WiFi and see if there is anything meaningful that could be worked into either a smog article (ball aesthetics come to mind) or an article.
  6. Steelicks

    Steelicks Come here and Battle me!
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    mate... honestly, your thread titles are unbelievable

    edit: in a good way =D
  7. Tangerine

    Tangerine Where the Lights Are
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    Cause we're not hacking. Are you even serious when you post crap like this? How am I supposed to take you seriously when you post things like this...

    I remember seeing one of those maps where they took like screencaps and put them together to make one big map. Ideally I'd like one of those and put together, or else if we can create a more detailed world map somehow, it'd be nice. It sounds like a job for an artist though (cough cough), and we can probably solicit one. I'd like admin's permission to give out an artist badge for this though.

    @mingot, sounds excellent.
  8. Arseus

    Arseus
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    Emerald RNG

    Just confirming/clarifying what mingot has said here, I'm working on RNG Manipulation for Pokèmon Emerald; I don't know how FR/LG work so I'm not really doing all the "3rd Gen guides" though. It's coming along pretty nicely, so Emerald RNG should be covered within a short(ish) period of time after mingot and I put everything together.

    Anyway, I was going to PM mingot when I have done some preliminary editing on my part (what I have is on paper right now, and it's not 100% done); since this is your project, Tangerine, would you like me to forward you the PM once I send it? I'm hoping to have my stuff "done" (as in, what I'm doing for the guide independent of mingot) by around Saturday or Sunday.
  9. Jimbo

    Jimbo take me anywhere
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    Despite not having extremely stable wifi for a good while I could still probably help with Wifi metagame differences -- I'll look around for other wifiers who battle a lot to help out with this too.

    also this title is so odd
  10. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider
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    The TM and item location map sounds like a fun project and I'd like to help pluff/whoever is doing it with it :).

    EDIT: List of competitive TMs and their locations.

    • TM01 - Focus Punch - Oreburgh Gate
    • TM02 - Dragon Claw - Mt.Coronet
    • TM04 - Calm Mind - Battle Frontier Shop, 48 BP.
    • TM05 - Roar - Route 213
    • TM06 - Toxic - Battle Frontier Shop, 32 BP.
    • TM08 - Bulk Up - Battle Frontier Shop, 48 BP.
    • TM10 - Hidden Power - Veilstone Game Corner, 6000 Coins.
    • TM11 - Sunny Day - Route 212
    • TM12 - Taunt - Route 211
    • TM13 - Ice Beam - Route 216; Veilstone Game Corner, 10000 Coins.
    • TM14 - Blizzard - Acuity Lakefront; Veilstone Deparment Store, $5500.
    • TM16 - Light Screen - Veilstone Department Store, $2000.
    • TM17 - Protect - Veilstone Department Store, $2000.
    • TM18 - Rain Dance - Route 213.
    • TM22 - SolarBeam - Veilstone Department Store, $3000.
    • TM24 - Thunderbolt - Valley Windworks; Veilstone Game Corner, 10000 Coins.
    • TM25 - Thunder - Valor Lakefront; Veilstone Department Store, $5500.
    • TM26 - Earthquake - Wayward Cave (secret entrance); Battle Frontier Shop, 80 BP.
    • TM27 - Return - Professor Rowan, Sandgem Town; Lost Tower; Veilstone Game Corner, 8000 Coins.
    • TM29 - Psychic - Route 211; Veilstone Game Corner, 10000 Coins.
    • TM30 - Shadow Ball - Route 210; Battle Frontier Shop, 64 BP.
    • TM31 - Brick Break - Battle Frontier Shop, 64 BP.
    • TM32 - Double Team - Veilstone Game Corner, 4000 Coins.
    • TM33 - Reflect - Veilstone Department Store, $2000.
    • TM35 - Flamethrower - Fuego Ironworks; Veilstone Game Corner, 10000 Coins.
    • TM36 - Sludge Bomb - Team Galactic Warehouse; Battle Frontier Shop, 80 BP.
    • TM38 - Fire Blast - Verity Lakefront; Veilstone Department Store, $5500.
    • TM41 - Torment - Victory Road.
    • TM42 - Facade - Solaceon Town.
    • TM44 - Rest - Veilstone Game Corner, 6000 Coins.
    • TM50 - Overheat - Stark Mountain.
    • TM51 - Roost - Route 210.
    • TM52 - Focus Blast - Veilstone Department Store, $5500.
    • TM53 - Energy Ball - Battle Frontier Shop, 64 BP.
    • TM57 - Charge Beam - Sunnyshore Gym.
    • TM58 - Endure - Veilstone Game Corner, 2000 Coins.
    • TM59 - Dragon Pulse - Victory Road; Battle Frontier Shop, 80 BP.
    • TM61 - Will-o-Wisp - Battle Frontier Shop, 32 BP.
    • TM64 - Explosion - Veilstone Game Corner, win 10 Clefairy slot rounds.
    • TM66 - Payback - Route 215.
    • TM69 - Rock Polish - Mt.Coronet.
    • TM71 - Stone Edge - Victory Road; Battle Frontier Shop, 80 BP.
    • TM72 - Avalanche - Snowpoint Gym.
    • TM73 - Thunder Wave - Battle Frontier Shop, 32 BP.
    • TM74 - Gyro Ball - Veilstone Game Corner, 15000 Coins.
    • TM75 - Swords Dance - Veilstone Game Corner, 4000 Coins.
    • TM76 - Stealth Rock - Oreburgh Gym.
    • TM79 - Dark Pulse - Victory Road.
    • TM80 - Rock Slide - Mt.Coronet.
    • TM81 - X-Scissor - Route 221; Battle Frontier Shop, 64 BP.
    • TM82 - Sleep Talk - Eterna Forest.
    • TM84 - Poison Jab - Route 212
    • TM86 - Grass Knot - Eterna Gym.
    • TM87 - Swagger - Pokemon Mansion.
    • TM89 - U-turn - Canalave City; Veilstone Game Corner, 6000 Coins.
    • TM90 - Substitute - Old Chateau,; Veilstone Game Corner, 2000 Coins.
    • TM91 - Flash Cannon - Canalave Gym.
    • TM92 - Trick Room - Route 213
    • HM03 - Surf - Celestic Town Shrine.
    • HM07 - Waterfall - Sunnyshore City.

    List of competitive items + locations:

    • Black Sludge - Wild Croagunk and Toxicroak.
    • Choice Band - Battle Frontier Shop, 48 BP.
    • Choice Scarf - Battle Frontier Shop, 48 BP.
    • Choice Specs- Celestic Town; Battle Frontier Shop, 48 BP.
    • Damp Rock - Underground.
    • Expert Belt - Route 221 (Level Man)
    • Flame Orb - Battle Frontier Shop, 16 BP.
    • Focus Sash - Route 221 (Level Man); Battle Frontier Shop, 48 BP.
    • Heat Rock - Underground.
    • Iron Ball - Iron Island; Underground.
    • Lagging Tail - Route 226; Wild Lickitung and Slowpoke.
    • Leftovers - Victory Road; Pickup Ability (LV81-100); Wild Munchlax
    • Life Orb - Stark Mountain
    • Light Clay - Mt.Coronet; Underground
    • Lum Berry - Route 212; Resort Area.
    • Macho Brace - Pastoria City
    • Muscle Band - Battle Frontier Shop, 48 BP.
    • Scope Lens - Battle Frontier; Veilstone Game Corner, 1000 Coins.
    • Shed Shell - Route 228; Wild Beautifly and Dustox; Wild Venomoth post-National Dex.
    • Toxic Orb - Battle Frontier Shop, 16 BP.
    • Wide Lens - Veilstone Game Corner, 1000 Coins; Wild Yanma post-National Dex.
    • Wise Glasses - Celestic Town

    I've got an emulator for Platinum on my PC, so I'll do a speed playthrough and screengrab locations of the harder to find items, and then shrink them slightly and collage them onto this.
  11. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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    lol
  12. Carl

    Carl or Varl
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    While I don't know if I'm the right person to lead this project or not, you did mention me by name so here's my initial thoughts on a Frontier section. This is actually a pretty big project in itself so I would be more than willing to run this jointly with Peterko and/or Jump if they're interested (I assume they both are). This is by no means the be all end all of what we should do, merely things I've thought of this morning.

    For starters, while all 5 facilities will need their own "section", I think that heavy emphasis should be placed on the Battle Tower and to a lesser extent the Battle Hall. Places like the Arcade and Castle have their own nuances but are derived directly from the Battle Tower format and similar strategies can be applied -- though not all which is why they still do need their own section to discuss the subtle changes. The Battle Hall is a completely different style and fairly difficult in its own right which merits a bit more emphasis. The Battle Factory will probably be the most difficult in terms of content since you are literally at the mercy of the game's pokemon choices. For all 5 facilities (and the DP Tower as well) there is a ton of information already in the thread in Stark so that's a good starting point.

    Most facilities are done in the level 50 format as well and there are slight differences between level 50 and level 100 play so this should be addressed somewhere, too (damage, IV -> stat differences.. specifically speed). A general mention of which style of play in each facility gets you the plates and that you obtain them after 21 and 49 for all would be good. If someone could clarify the randomness of natures and abilities and make mention of how IVs work for opponent pokemon that would be excellent. A general ban list of what pokemon aren't allowed might be worth mentioning but might not be.. idk. Maybe just a general Frontier FAQ for the main page of this section.

    I'd also like to get the records list actually posted on the site. Essentially move the OP of Peterko's BT records thread to this BT section of the site. We can still link to the actual forum posts but an on-site listing for a visiting trainer to see how s/he stacks up would garner more interest.

    Some specifics for each facility..

    For Battle Tower:
    The tower has many subsets to it but for starters we should focus on the standard singles portion and branch from there. Things like Doubles, Multi and WiFi are less played as shown by the records thread and don't give you a print to say you've "completed part of the Frontier" so those can be put on the back burner for now. I think all of them give ribbons at certain points though so we can at least include that. Actually, doubles should probably get some love right away, too, but the focus should be getting singles up asap.

    - We have the "master list" of all pokemon and sets which should be put into table form much like the pokemon listings for tiers for both DP and Plat
    - A common question is "what pokemon/moves does the Tycoon have" so this should be mentioned specifically for both DP and Plat
    - A successful moveset article perhaps. There are certain tried and true pokemon for the BT such as Counter/DBond/Shadow Ball/Bolt @Sash Gengar so a collection of known successful sets with basic descriptions should be sufficient
    - items guide
    - Trick is still by far and away the best strategy so this needs its own article. Jump is really the best candidate for this specific job.
    - How much BP you earn per set of 7 and whatnot along with what pokemon ribbons you get and how many battles you need to complete to obtain them.
    - we'll need most of the above applied to doubles as well

    Battle Arcade:
    - A short description of the differences between Arcade and Tower
    - A listing of all the symbols and what they mean when you're doing the roulette thing.
    - Shares the same pokemon listing as the Tower but without items IIRC.
    - Dahlia's pokemon listing
    - Any other general strategies

    Battle Castle:
    - Again, differences between the Tower and Castle
    - Someone wrote a good guide on how to hoard a lot of Castle Points early so if we could dig that up and edit/add to it that would be excellent.
    - Darach's pokemon listing
    - Castle doubles only uses 3 pokemon still so this is definitely exploitable.. something on that maybe

    Battle Factory:
    - We also have the master list for this. Maybe we should split it for what you'll only see in level 50 vs open.
    - listings of the selective information given per round of 7 and maybe an example
    - general strategy/how to approach the Factory article

    Battle Hall:
    - battle hall pokemon listing
    - A description of how the 1v1 format works
    - A description of how the 1v1 doubles format works
    - best ways to approach the hall with tried and true pokemon (order of types to take on, etc) for both singles and doubles
    - some sort of article on the important items (sash, scarf, band/specs) and why they are superior



    I'm pretty sure most people that actively post in the BT records thread will be more than willing to help out and judging by Jump's 3 letter post as best I can I'll assume he's interested. And please, please, please add to my list since IMO it seems far from complete.
  13. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
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    I'm up for that! Also, to add onto LR's list (thank you, by the way!), items like the Magmarizer and Electirizer should be on it too, imo, but I know where they all are anyway.

    Maybe we could have a big map, and when you hover over each route/town, the screenshots come up? This wouldn't be too hard to do at all, and I think it might save space. I can take screenshots too.

    There are detailed world maps around, but we'd need the artists' permission to use. Kymotonian / Kyledove has a lot of useful stuff on his dA, iirc, but yeah.
  14. Stallion

    Stallion Joe Cool
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    This sounds good, and I also have a platinum emulator on my computer so I should be able to help with screenshots as well.
  15. Stellar

    Stellar
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    It would be great if chaos could make all RSE item pages accessible (currently, only the "competitive" items have editable SCMS pages), make the GSC item page visible (these have already been uploaded, the page is just invisible), and create a RBY item page (this currently does not exist).

    With the plans for item locations and whatnot floating around, these changes would be extremely helpful.
  16. Cathy

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    I just took care of the GSC items by writing a script that created item entries in the database for all of the SCMS item pages:

    http://www.smogon.com/gs/items/

    I know a lot of items are missing; that's because they didn't have SCMS pages. I can add the other items to the database as well if somebody wants to write short and long descriptions for them in some easy to parse format.
  17. Doomsday

    Doomsday
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    Jimbo: aim for the horn.
  18. Cathy

    Cathy

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    Thanks to twash and jumpluff, all of the GSC items are now on the site.
  19. RBG

    RBG But I keep cruising, can't stop, won't stop grooving.
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    I started playing through Platinum again and can problem get a list of good in game pokemon made up (with an "in Game" Tier List topic in Stark to help of course)
  20. Tangerine

    Tangerine Where the Lights Are
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    In Game Tiers should definitely be on site, for all Generations.
  21. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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  22. Great Sage

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    I'm also playing through Platinum and can assist with the ingame tiers. However, I don't think we should necessarily do hard-and-fast tiers, since ingame utility is impossible to quantify, but rather something like "these Pokemon tend to be good".
  23. Doomsday

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  24. Mekkah

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    I've agreed with Tangerine to write a simple in-game tier list article, with lists of each different game. I won't be very nitpicky and will probably make only three tiers per game. Something like:

    Good/Average/Bad
    A/B/C
    High/Mid/Low

    Definitely not OU/BL/UU, as Colin said on IRC, as that'd cause confusion.
  25. Stellar

    Stellar
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    I would probably prefer Good / Average / Bad or High / Mid / Low (probably the latter) over A/B/C. A/B/C just doesn't really confer the meaning of the tiers that well.

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