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Strategy Analysis: Trick Room (DP)

Discussion in 'Archives' started by LonelyNess, Oct 31, 2007.

  1. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings of the Ash Legion
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    Porygon2 is one of the best with a bulky EV spread, actually. It can't survive things like Machamp or Heracross, but against most other things, it does beautifully. I use one with excellent effect as my starter (except in BL). In OU, P2 will laugh at Gliscor, Gyarados, and a lot of other things with a nice defensive spread and the Tbolt/Ice Beam/Recover/Trick Room set. It needs Phaze/haze and spin support, though. And you never mentioned Trace, which is an asset, which actually lets it be one of the best Gyarados (and possibly even Salamence) killers available and annoys the hell out of Sand veil users on SS teams.
  2. Anti

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    Mesprit does whatever Uxie does in TR but better imo. It can take down Mence / Gyara (I can see why Pory-2 could be good) which are big threats, mainly Gyara due to Taunt.
  3. Age of Kings

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    P2 doesn't fear U-turn from anything...but hates anything bulkier than it with a good fighting move, making it more effective in BL where there's no anti-Blissey hysteria, and it can't kill anything that isn't SE to Bolt-Beam. No one expects a non-psychic TR...and Trace is the biggest thing going for it, also letting it kill Vaporeon and benefits from opposing SS teams. Does Gardevoir get Recover? No. It should be paired with a psychic-type TRer, rather than 2 psychics setting it up.
  4. Articanus

    Articanus

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    Banette(or lvl 1 shuppet) can have a Focus sash to (almost) guarantee the first trick room with innsomnia, and have destiny bond to kill something afterward. they also have thunderbolt for Gyarados.
  5. Slice n Dice

    Slice n Dice

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    I definitely have to say Machamp, Ursaring(Guts), and Marowak abuse tr best. if used with a tr bannette, they can get an almost guaranteed sweep of 2-3 pokes at a time. wish support is also great in tr teams, as many of your "sweepers" are glass cannons as frosty stated. good one would be jirachi and hypno.
  6. Anti

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    Very true, and is part of why Machamp is great in Trick Room. Firstly, Trick Room teams tend to have a huge weakness to Pokemon such as CB Tyranitar coming in and Crunching everything to death SE. Machamp can come in on that with its Dark resistance and either scare it off or OHKO it.

    Secondly, a bit more on Machamp: Base 130 Attack, base 50 speed. That makes it obvious for Trick Room, but moreso because of its (rather unappreciated) ability, Guts. If you stick Machamp with a Burn / Toxic Orb in the room of tricks, you've got a very powerful physical sweeper that requires no set up, which would otherwise be counter-intuative since you're effectively on a timer. With Ice Punch / ThunderPunch / Close Combat / Stone Edge running off a 591 Attack, you've got a powerhouse.
  7. c l e a r

    c l e a r

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    I like No guard better, I like those 100% Dynamicpunches.
  8. Anti

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    You completely missed the point of why it has such an advatage if you want to use No Guard...
  9. chaos

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    was this a good guide?
  10. Aldaron

    Aldaron wu tang clan ain't nothin to fuck wit
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    I don't like this guide in its current state. I recently ran a Trick Room team, and I noticed that some of the statements in this guide either limit my team or prevent it from being viable altogether.

    That said, I know LonelyNess pretty well and see him pretty regularly on Shoddy, so I will talk to him about possibly working on an upgraded version.

    EDIT: His recommendation that a Psychic or Ghost sweeper not be on a Trick Team catches my eye, for example. One of the most successful Trick Room teams I have observed so far has been user REXinator's Trick Room team, and it broke this "rule." I'm not a fan of recommendations that limit the options of the user; I appreciate narrowing the options, just not limiting them.

    Also, I believe the recipient list should be much more comprehensive. Marowak, Medicham, Bulky CB Gyara, Curselax, Machamp, Heatran, and Empoleon are all viable candidates (arguably more so that Camerupt) for receiving Trick Room, and therefore should all be represented.
  11. chaos

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    Yeah, it's probably just outdated. Now that articles seem to be in full force (finally, this took forever) I'd like to get a trick room analysis up.
  12. hbdragon88

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    One of the things that I would like a Trick Room analysis to discuss is raising Pokemon. I'm incredibly in-game in the sense that I still prefer +Attack or +Sp Attack natures. Would it be enough to simply reallocate speed EVs into other areas (for those who do not breed +Speed natures), or should a breeder aim for -Speed natures every time? In Emerald you can breed one and clone to create a TR and a non-TR one if you decide to breed for a neutral speed nature (Adamant, Modest, Brave, etc.). I'm not so lazy to do that.

    Maybe this can be helped by creating absolute and relative speed tiers and likelhood of meeting each one based on Shoddy stats. For instance, let's evaluate how to lead with someone who will start off with TR. If we look at the top 20 leads for February, all of them are very fast except for Bronzong (33), T-Tar (61), Swampert (60), Metagross (70), and Breloom (70), all of whom generally do not run speed EVs (except for Breloom). The analysis gives Bronzong (33), Solrock (70), and Slowbro (30) as good leads to begin with. Solrock would need a -Speed nature to beat everything except for Bronzong. Slowbro wants a -Speed nature to make sure he outruns Bronzong after Trick Room, but if he isn't concerned with that he can run a different nature. Most Bronzong run -Speed to begin with to increase Gyro Ball's damage, so it's a necessity, not a question.

    Sorry if this comes off as incorrect theorymoning, I was just curious. All I know is that the more specific the analysis can be to current Shoddy trends, the more relevant and timely it comes. I have no credentials in competitive battling whatsoever.
  13. Kankuro

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    I came across this guide, and IMO, I think that Machamp definitley deserves a mention. It may seem obvious, but I think he deserves a mention. 150 BP STAB Dynamic Punch is a frightning move in and outside Trick Room.


    Marowak also is very nice in Trick Room, he has fearsome attack with Thick Club, and serves a similar purpose as Rhyperior. A set that could work for Marowak:

    Marowak@ Thick Club
    Brave Nature
    252 HP/ 252 Attack/ 6 Def
    - Earthquake
    - Double Edge
    - Fire Punch
    - Stone Edge/Aerial Ace/ Rock Slide

    A Swords Dance set is also viable.

    Claydol also sets up Trick Room pretty well, IMO.
  14. Wes

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    I was writing a guide actually, with Kizmoke with the permission of Obi and Blue Kirby. It probably wouldn't be all that great so here are some of my additions:
    The move
    > As already stated, TR reverses the normal turn order. The priority however(see http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/move_priority), remains the same for all attacks. TR itself is a -7/-6 priority attack and is in fact the slowest attack. If pokemon have the ability stall, the item Full Incense or Lagging Tail, they completely ignore TR. When Quick Claw kicks in, it also ignores TR and when both pokemon activate Quick Claw, the faster one goes first. It isn't a damaging move and therefore doesn't make contact. It isn't affected by Protect, Magic Coat, Snatch or King's Rock, but it is affected by BrightPowder(according to serebii, but I don't understand how:/). It has 5 PP (8 after some Max PP's) and it's a Psychic, "other" move.

    I also made a set for Girafarig,Mr.Mime and Chimecho; if you're interested in those sets I'll post or PM them. Most other important things have been told,Exeggutor can use TR+Explosion and Clamperl rocks. I hope I can help this guide a bit.
  15. Xellos

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    I know this article is outdated, but this is incorrect. In order to have a speed lower than a netural base 65 you must have a base speed of 74 or less with a - nature.
  16. LonelyNess

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    Umm, while I know this guide is outdated, I know I didn't do my math incorrectly...

    Lucario (Base 90) with a hindering nature and 0 speed IV reaches 166 Spe... Dustox (Base 65) with 4 Spe EVs and a neutral speed nature reaches 167. You are thinking of a Pokemon that has 31 Spe IV, which obviously doesn't help a Pokemon who's trying to be as slow as possible.

    Also, it's funny that someone should bump this thread as I'm actually in the process of revamping it to get it site worthy.
  17. Venom

    Venom red eyes no visine
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    I have a guide in the making, which involves Trick Room, so if this officially or gets a green light, ill link it to this, which seems to be an ok for a Trick Room team helper
  18. pyrzi

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    Needs more love for Bronzong and Porygon2.

    NOTE: The next set is more Psychologymon than Theorymon.


    Name: Heatproof Lead
    Bronzong @ Lum Berry
    Careful/Relaxed/Brave(entirely up to your choice)
    Heatproof
    252hp/100def/100spdef/56atk
    ~Gyro Ball
    ~Earthquake
    ~Trick Room
    ~Stealth Rock/Explosion


    What exactly is the very first thing the opponent does to counter a Bronzong?
    That's right, send in a Fire Pokémon. With these EVs, Bronzong takes
    86.39% - 101.48% damage from a typical Choice Scarfed Heatran with Levitate.
    And those numbers are there because MetalKid doesn't seem to have input
    Heatproof in his DmgCalc. But my honest guess is, assuming Heatproof halves
    Fire damage, 43.195% - 50.74% damage. Which isn't 2HKO in most cases.
    If you are scared of 2HKO, feel free to buff Zong's SpDef EVs.
    It is obvious to the human mind that the opponent freaks out after seeing
    Fire Blast doing such little damage(well, not that little lol).
    Besides: After setting up Trick Room opponent has already sent out a counter
    OR has Taunted Bronzong before TR. Now, shall I analyze the very top 3
    Taunt leads in this metagame?
    They are, by pretty much, Tyranitar, Azelf and Aerodactyl.
    Currently I haven't used these said Pokémon as leads so I am strictly
    speaking of experience against these said leads. Criticization allowed.
    TauntZelfs use Taunt every. Freaking. Time. Use this information for your advantage. This means that you Gyro Ball their speedy asses for about ~60%
    damage. TrickZelfs are a different story however.
    In fact, with so muc Trick in use these days, only skilled players should consider
    Trick Room teams, because a Tricked Trick Roomer(c wut i did thar?) has
    lost much of it's use.
    If you Bronzong gets Tricked, he can still be useful. You have to send him
    out in the right situations.
    Which means get-tricked-run-get-in-again-set-up
    -TR-run-again. Trick is even more threathening move than Taunt, hands down.
    At least Taunt wears off.

    Aerodactyls are predictable. They either set up SR first or Taunt first.
    Whichever way, Aerodactyl is going down from Gyro Balls pretty fast...
    But that's what Suicide Leads are for aren't they ;) ?

    Killing off TTar is a pain. The best you can do is to pray he doesn't Taunt you.
    252def/hp TTars are rare, yes, but they are a prominant threat for Zong.
    Check Taunt from TTar with Earthquake or Gyroball(I would appreciate if somebody
    would give some calculations of which is more effective: GBall or EQ, but
    from my experience Gyro Ball is better.).
    If TTar subtitutes, that's a mixed bag of joy and sadness for you. Most likely
    he isn't very fast because he would buff up HP to 252 EVs. First, analyze what
    he's doing; Dragon Dance or Focus Punch.
    With the case of Dragon Dance, you can safely use Gyro Ball first, because:
    Damage: 48.22% - 56.80% from a TTar +1 Atk Crunch against a positive
    natured Bronzong. A Brave natured Bronzong's Gyro Ball always breaks
    TTar's sub.
    This damage, on most cases, 2HKOs you. If by extreme prediction you manage
    to break Tyranitar's Substitute on the very same turn you get killed off by
    Crunch, you have the upper hand. I don't think I need a reason to tell why.


    Name: Virtual Duck
    Porygon2 @ Leftovers/Lum Berry(for sleepers)
    (Any nature that boosts either defence and lowers atk/spd, up to you.)
    Trace
    252hp/128def/128spdef
    ~Trick Room
    ~Thunderbolt
    ~Ice Beam
    ~Recover

    An extremely underrated Pokémon. Porygon2 is a great counter against Heatran
    and THE best counter against Gyarados.
    Thunderbolt is against Waters, Gyarados more specifically, and Ice Beam
    s excellent when combined with Thunderbolt. Recover keeps him alive for a bit
    longer.
    Again, speaking from my own experience, Porygon2 has 90% of the time
    survived to set up another Trick Room. The 10% happened when my opponent
    succeeded in a Scizor Sweep/Fighting Sweep. Also, TTar.
    Porygon2 is also the only Tracer that can utilize Trick Room while being slow(80 is too fast, Gardevoir fanatics[although the special defense IS nice[as well as her hourglass figure]])


    Now, if yo dawgs excuse-moi
    [​IMG]
  19. Luxormaniac

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    The best tr team ever (OU)

    solrock- already explained. go boom.
    claydol- same as solrock, but i sometimes get a KO and then explode.
    'zong- explode. you know the drill
    ttar- hes slow, hes strong, hes tight. plus sandstorm ends focus sashes of pokemon that with a sash could survive and kill my fragile sweepers.
    ursaring- guts baby. facade at 140 + STAB + maxed 130 attack + guts = freaking righteous. Sinners beware. Can OHKO nonbulky salamence's and gyara's after intimidate, at >75% hp can take a scizor's choiced bullet punch and finish with fire punch.
    marowak- think thick club. eq/fire punch/tpunch/stone edge isnt really resisted by anything. He's physically quite bulky as well, and also kills scizor, only scizor doesnt switch in to wall maro like they do to ursa.

    I'm too lazy to make this prettier.
  20. maddog

    maddog is a master debater
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    Venom, if you do end up making a TR guide I can help you out, I've played Trick Room many times before.

    Also, about P2, Magic Coat is what makes it stand out from the rest (even Bronzong) as a lead, as Magic Coat not only reflects status, but Taunt as well. Its a niche that not many people can rival him out on.
  21. Venom

    Venom red eyes no visine
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    I don't know I haven't got a response and I don't see one I might end up doing this, so if you can have an answer OP creator that'd be good
  22. Farewell

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    Slowking works well with Trick Room too:


    Slowking @ Mystic Water
    Relaxed (+SpA,-Spd) *0 Spd IV
    252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 SpD

    Trick Room

    Fire Blast
    Surf
    Nasty Plot

    This Slowking has certainly swept by itself with such Nasty Plot. Mystic Water is so I don't die from Life Orb, and so Surf hits extra hard. Fire Blast is for Scizor, Magnezone, and Celebi whom come in on Trick Room and think they are safe.
  23. Luxormaniac

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    If you dont want recoil, use wise glasses, which give you more oooomph anyway. or leftovers.
  24. Mekkah

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    Wise Glasses boosts Surf by less than Mystic Water, so acting like one is 100% superior to another is not correct.

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