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strong boy team

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Glen, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. Glen

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jan 7, 2006
    hi im glen, i played rse a lot and then maybe i played like ten games of dpp but now i wanna try bw2!!!!! i started playing last night and i just cracked 1800 on PS!, landing me at 30th.

    i think this team is pretty cool but it has a couple problems

    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 108 Spd / 216 SDef / 184 HP
    Calm Nature
    - Flamethrower
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roar
    - Sunny Day

    problem 1 is that i don't like ninetales that much!! but anyway speed is to outspeed toed and breloom, etc. set is ok i guess? i havent actually done anything with sunny day yet so i might drop it for hp fighting which would obviate the need to play so carefully around balloontran. roar is pretty good, will o wisp misses way too much but it's gotten me out of a couple sticky situations. maybe toxic is better though? deals with latis much better.

    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 100 Atk / 252 SAtk / 156 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - U-turn
    - Flamethrower
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam

    this guy is really good! considering the only thing i'm actually comfortable with in pokemon anymore is prediction, genesect is solving all the problems. 100 atk because max speed is awful, i'm not going to play into a genesect speed tie because it's a shitty way to play pokemon, and the meagre but consistent u-turn chip damage boosts are far more valuable in the long term, especially when compounded by the atk boost that everyone seems to be eving their mons for.

    genesect in sun is pretty obviously stellar, late game when i nab a sp atk boost and it's sunny i just fire off big flame throwers (stuff like mixmence is always 2hko'd with rocks, sometimes even without). my only problem with is that so many times it's just a guessing game. 'prediction' is cool and all but when you get to like, 5th layer yomi or whatever when it's like 'he knows that i know that he knows that i know' it's just a coin flip. i really hate when i occasionally make 'bad' predictions with this guy and it is impossible for me to tell if i was outplayed or not. it's fairly common that i'll lead genesect and they'll lead scarf lando, and if they quake while i u-turn they're in a good spot since my team doesn't handle lando well, but if they quake while i ice beam they're fucked, so it's 'safer' for them to u-turn out, but then my slower u-turn can react to it and zzzzzzzz

    Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 21 HP
    - Earthquake
    - Substitute
    - Reversal
    - Stealth Rock

    i like this guy. depending on the team i'll often play him as a suicide lead. i'll trap ttars with him but i normally have a good enough matchup against rain that i don't care about trapping and killing toed, i just want to get rocks up and do 40-70% with reversal to it (depending on the set, if it's scarftoed i do don't get any damage on it but my team handles scarftoed better anyway so whatever).

    he's also really neat against teams that rely on espeon instead of a spinner, since unless they lead with a flier they can't stop rocks, and if they lead espeon i kill it with 2 quakes and then almost always get rocks up afterwards.

    he's kind of my lone heatran answer which, with proper playing, isn't that big a problem, but it's kind of annoying sometimes especially if they lead balloontran while i lead dug. normally things are handled by u-turn from gene or volt switch from forry to break the balloon, then dug takes care of things.

    sub has been sort of useful but i'm thinking about testing memento instead, cause normally one free turn is all i need for volc or venu to win the game

    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SAtk
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 2 Spd
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Gyro Ball
    - Rapid Spin

    probably my weakest link, but i need a spinner, a heatran lure that can pivot out, and a way to handle scarf landorus, so he fits nicely. ive thought about spikes but i kinda just feel like theyre not that great, i dunno. no other move is expendable either since when they see i'm using boltbeam shit they'll usually assume i'm sans gyro ball so guys like tyranitar and latis get a big surprise.

    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Giga Drain
    - Sleep Powder
    - Growth

    strongest dude on the team, bar none. i win almost every game with him. set is absolutely incredible, sleep one of his (admittedly bountiful) counters, then go to town. against rain i do my best to keep him above 70% at all times so poli can't switch in to stop his chloro spree and ko with scarf ice beam.

    i dont care for sludge bomb since the mere threat of it or hp ice is normally enough to dissuade mence from coming in too early, and in the sun hp fire does like 55-65% after a growth anyway so i can normally have it worn down enough. this is also basically my only counter to jellicent which is kind of sketchy.

    it's completely destroyed by heatran, of course, so i have to play very carefully with dug to handle it. on the plus side when i sleep it they normally realize it's too valuable to leave in so it tends to get swapped back out and stay sleeped for a hella long time, racking up rocks damage each time it comes in until its in giga drain ko range. spikes on forry may help me in my war of attrition against heatran but id rather volt switch when it comes in and ko with duggy than bother with spikestacking.

    Volcarona @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Quiver Dance
    - Bug Buzz
    - Fiery Dance
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    my other strong boy. he's my best answer to rain teams, hilariously enough, as one quiver is normally enough to destroy anything they can throw at me bar maybe gastro, but that's rarely a factor considering i normally get my sun up, bring in volc, and quiv on the switch; if they switch in gastro it's 2hkod by bug buzz and cant do anything back thanks to sun. if they switch in toed to get rain up, it risks an ohko from buzz, and if they double switch from toed to gastro then i 2hko it anyway so there isn't a whole lot they can do!

    fiery dance is just awful and i have no idea why i'm using it. im torn between flamethrower and fire blast though, i like the fact that this guy can't miss so blast is a bit scary, but the sheer power of this thing after quiver dance makes me wonder.

    hp ice may seem unorthodox but it has served me well. checking calcs now though i'm learning that +1 fire blast ohkos mence in the sun anyway (gyara too, which i imagine i would have trouble with, though i dont run into it much), and hp fighting always ohkos tran after rocks at +1... hmm!!!!!

    it's a bit odd, this guy is in my opinion the single most powerful pokemon in the game right now, but just based on the way my team is set up he tends to play second fiddle to venusaur. i'm wondering if i should be using both him and volc or if cut one of them for another support guy who would assuage my heatran woes, making the team more 'cohesive'. volcarona is definitely more menacing but were it my only sweeper i would be totally fucked if i don't get a spin off with forry (which does happen), so venu is the safer choice. i do like having two sweepers though so i dunno!!!

    anyway that's my team!!! tentative changes involve fiery dance to fire blast and hp ice to hp fighting on volc, as well as probably changing sunny day to hp fighting on ninetales.

    as for threats, jellicent + heatran as a combo is a bit stressful because venu is my only answer to jelli. even if i play well and double switch to dug on the switch to heatran, i'm still fucked if it's balloon (which it always seems to be, does anyone use spdef tran anymore?). also aggressive ddnite as a lead is really really hard for me to deal with if i guess wrong and lead dug instead of gene. beyond that i haven't noticed any glaring weaknesses, but i haven't played that many games yet either!
  2. Sayonara

    Sayonara don't forget

    Nov 18, 2011
    Hi, Glen. Nice sun team. I find that your team is a bit weak to Scarf Terrakion, as it outspeeds your entire team and can beat Venusaur, +1 Volcarona and Dragonite with a STAB Stone Edge, while Genesect and Dugtrio will not appreciate switching-in a powerful Close Combat. Forretress can tank a few hits, but without a solid recovery move, it won't last long. To help deal with Terrakion, I'd recommend you use an EV spread of 78 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe and a Timid Nature on Venusaur. With this change, Venusaur can outspeed any Scarf Terrakion and Scarf Latios, which is useful to be able to take them out, since they outspeed Modest Venusaur. While you do lose a bit of power, Growth and Life Orb should be enough to continue hitting hard. With this spread, you also gain a bit of bulk, which is helpful to tank hits. Finally, I think you would benefit from Memento more on Dugtrio than Substitute. You don't need Substitute to get to 1 HP since you already have Focus Sash. Memento prevents Dragonites from using Dugtrio as a set-up fodder. I don't have much else to add - cool team, and good luck! Hope I helped.
  3. Avatar Korra

    Avatar Korra

    Jul 1, 2012
    Hey Glen, solid Sun team you have here! :) I have a couple recommendations for you though:

    On Ninetales, I would replace Sunny Day for Hidden Power Rock. I don't really like Sunny Day Ninetales. I understand its purpose, of resetting the sun if a Tyranitar or Politoed switch in, however this is a really risky move! Say Tyranitar switches into your Ninetales, would you really risk setting up Sunny Day when TTar can KO in one shot? The only way I could see it working is if you predict him switching in, however if you can predict that good you might as well use that chance to cripple him permanently with Will-O-Wisp. Hidden Power Rock has the advantage of still taking out Heatran's Air Balloon, allowing you to trap him with Dugtrio later. Another advantage, though, is to hit Volcarona hard, who otherwise could set up on your Ninetales and sweep the rest of your team. With Dugtrio, you shouldn't have too much trouble with opposing weather teams, so I highly recommend you make this change.

    Next I would replace Substitute on Dugtrio for Memento. With a Focus Sash there's no need for Substitute, it doesn't help at all as it won't help Dugtrio accomplish his main goals. (Trapping Heatran, Tyranitar, etc.) Memento will be helpful in punishing Sweepers who will try and set up against Dugtrio, like Dragonite, Salamence, etc. Memento is good to also stop Rapid Spinners from spinning away the rocks you just set up also.

    Finally, as great as Growth Venusaur is, I would recommend you change his set a bit. A set that helps you against your Heatran-Jellicent duo troubles, as well as Dragon trouble. Dragons are a big threat to your team, especially Dragon Dance sets, as with your Genesect's EV Spread you don't outspeed +Speed nature Salamence or Haxorus. This is the set I recommend you change it with:

    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Naive Nature
    128 Atk / 196 Sp.Atk / 184 Spe
    -Sleep Powder
    -Giga Drain
    -Hidden Power Ice

    This set will make an excellent revenge killer in the sun, allowing you to handle many dangerous threats to your team. With it, you can successfully revenge kill dragons without having to rely on Sleep Powder. While Growth was nice, Life Orb's power is good enough to still pose a huge offensive threat. You don't need a Growth set anyways as you have a great Sp. Attacking booster that is Volcarona.

    The moves are pretty obvious, Sleep Powder is for crippling troublesome Pokemon, and Giga Drain is a solid STAB and great for recovering your health back. The Speed EV's are enough to revenge kill Scarf Terrakion, and with the added bulk you should have an easier time taking him on.

    Hidden Power Ice is more useful than Hidden Power Fire, as now you can eliminate Dragons, Gliscor, Landorus.

    Earthquake is great, it allows you to not be completely walled by Heatran, in fact you take him out easily. With Venusaur not being walled by Heatran, you won't have to depend on Dugtrio so much to eliminate him.

    That's all I have to say right now, hope I helped! :)
  4. Asek


    Apr 28, 2012

    Cool Team Glen. First off, your team looks fairly prone to losing the weather war through trapping pokemon such as opposing Dugtrio and the rarer Wobbufett and Magma Storm Heatran. To help you evade those problematic trappers, try out Shed Shell > Leftovers on Ninetales. Although you lost Leftovers recovery, the ability to continually evade trappers is a major boost to your chances of winning the weather war. Also note if the Dugtrio is the rare Choice Band variant, it offers a free switch in and set up to Venusaur, which is great. You said you don't use Sunny Day much, so to offer you an unreliable, yet useful method of recovery try Pain Split > Sunny Day to try get your health back up if Ninetales is weared down from all the switch ins it has to cope with.

    Anyway, for Volcarona you said you were torn between Flamethrower and Fire Blast. Definitly opt for Fire Blast as it gets a guranteed OHKO on Salamence in sun after Stealth Rock without the need for you to get any boost's, and since Volcarona can commonly lure in ScarfMence expecting a bulkier set you can net a suprise KO which can then lead to a very neat sweep, and you now don't have much use for HP [ICE] as Fire Blast's power is storng enough for the targets it hits. Anyway, to also help remedy your Heatran problems try Hidden Power [GROUND]> HP [ICE]. Even Specially Defensive Heatran is not a safe Volcarona answer now, with HP [GROUND] having a 75% chance to OHKO Heatran after Stealth Rock without any boosts, and with Volcarona now handily luring in Heatran, Venusaur's life is made a lot easier as it can save its Sleep Powder for another threatening target. HP [ICE] is not all that necessary, considering that Fire Blast in sun wrecks all of its targets anyway, and although its accuracy may be off putting its sheer power is incredible

    GL with the team!
  5. Glen

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jan 7, 2006
    strangely i haven't had any scarf terrak troubles yet, but i can certainly see why it would cause me problems

    that said i'm not too worried about it vs venusaur since stone edge does like 60-70%, making it easy to prepare for. your point about scarf latis is a big one, though. i haven't run into any yet but they're certainly dangerous. i think i will make the change, but off the top of your head do you know any specific o/2hkos i miss out on by going down from modest?

    originally i had sub on dugtrio to combat random shit like toxic from chansey and blissey which would interfere with my reversal, but this team doesn't have many problems with them so it's easily cuttable (as much as i like having the edge on people who run smeargle leads, which actually happened a couple times). i will switch to memento, good call on the dragonite thing; now i can lead with dug, get rocks up and force a switch (unless theyre mind readers and go t1 attack t2 extremespeed.

    hp rock is probably better than hp fighting, you're right. all i really care about is popping the balloon anyway, and while i haven't run into volc yet i could see it being quite scary. as for memento, i never even considered the rapid spin thing, that's neat.

    as for my genesect spread, i didnt bother trying to outspeed max spe jolly haxorus as i thought people tended to eschew it for adamant. if they do go jolly wouldn't the more likely go for the 300 speed to outspeed adamant mence? any more speed than that just seems accessory. my genesect still outspeeds max sp neutral nature 100s, and it cant outspeed +1 +spe mence anyway due to the 99 speed. i don't think i'll drop my attack evs to outspeed max jolly haxorus, but i'll probably up it to 301 speed just to get the drop on those that go for 300.

    to be completely honest, i haven't had a whole lot of trouble with dragons. i know it seems like they should be a problem but i guess i just handle them well with rocks/genesect/hp ice from forry and friends. i do, however, see myself being torn apart by fire blast/dd/outrage/eq moxie mence though, so i'm kind of thankful that nobody seems to use it for whatever reason.

    while your spread deals with heatran much better, it also loses to chansey/blissey, and i enjoy not having to worry about them. though, on the other hand, i'd be able to devote dugtrio to them since dealing with heatran wouldn't be so onerous a task. hmm!! i'll test it out, thanks!

    normally i can maneuver around opposing trappers well enough to make them a nonissue. pain split would be cool but right now i'm keen on hp rock, so i'll definitely need the leftovers recovery.

    but yeah i had no idea just how much fire blast could do, can't believe i wasted so much time with fiery dance. as for hidden power, i totally agree that ice is useless, but every single heatran i run into is balloon, making me kind of reluctant to use ground, especially since fighting ohkos balloontran after rocks. though, i can't seem to find an hp fighting that lets me keep 31 speed; does one even exist? if not i will probably bite the bullet and switch to ground, i don't like the idea of being slower than mence and friends.

    thanks for the help everyone!
  6. XxpokemonmasterXx


    Jul 24, 2012
    No disrespect but with you being a mod, I expected this team's presentation to be a bit more...professional. At least have pictures or something. W/e

    Anyways, I recommend you listen to the three people above me, they covered pretty much everything. Alternatively you can try Roost over HP Ice on Volcarona to recover health better.
  7. PDC

    PDC this cruel thesis
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    Mar 18, 2010
    Hey Glen, nice team you got here.

    I suggest putting 0 Def and SDef IVs on Dugtrio to help it reach it's Focus Sash much quicker. I also suggest trying Memento on Dugtrio over Substitute to help support Volcarona and Venusaur come in and sweep. Not much else to say that everybody else hasn't already.

    Good luck!
  8. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Aug 18, 2009
    When I first saw this rmt I thought the person who made this thread was Glen1242525, but holy shit its the one and only Glen.

    Ok so I don't have much to offer that the others haven't mentioned already. Finding the ideal Volcorona moveset is impossible, but have you given his other sets a try? LO Volcorona is my least favorite version of it because of that SR weakness, and if Rocks are up and you're forced out you can't switch in twice (which isn't the case if you're running Lefties). You could also run your current set as is, but with HP ice. That way you still got Mence, Dnite and the occasionally rain covered, and you last a lot longer too.

    2 cents for the frogman.
  9. Sazandoringlps


    Nov 17, 2011
    why run Atk investment on Genesect is useless
    i think you missing the point of Genesect.Genesect is suppost to come in and try to get a special atk boost,if it comes in and gets Atk then you use u-turn tog et the hell out of there becuase your weak with a boost.
    i know this is hard to understand because i suck at speaking but the point im trying to get to is that you should run max Spatk Max speed because Speed ties and you can outspeed oher things like Hydreigon Haxorus if they have the scarf as well

    Genesect @Choice scarf
    252 Sp.Atk/4 Sp.Def/252 Spd
    -Ice beam
    -Flamethower/Bug buzz
  10. Glen

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jan 7, 2006
    i made the changes already covered and they've been fantastic, thanks everybody! as for the more recent points:

    sorry, i'll try harder next time

    good call on the ivs, i'll occasionally get duggy down to like 5% and get kind of mad

    LO volc is ideal for this team, i've tested bulkier versions and while they certainly live longer, the sheer power that this thing has is just too enticing

    it's way too easy to get a dance off. for example, if the opponent uses genesect, i just lead volc (since everyone seems to think genesect is always the best lead regardless of circumstance) so i get a guaranteed dance off. choice toed can't even switch in, there's a 50% chance it's ohkod by +1 buzz, 100% after rocks. if i miss the ko i trapkill with dug, get rocks off, and win the weather war with venusaur waiting in the wings. not to mention the fact that i usually lead dug and go rocks into memento, which usually wins the game.

    i've played a little under 200 games with this team and only once was i forced to switch volc into rocks (i won anyway). while bulkyrona is maybe more 'consistent' the damage output of this thing is crazy both on its own and in what it allows venusaur to do.

    mence is ohko'd by +1 fire blast after either rocks or sunny day, and dnite is ohko'd after both, so hp ice isn't really necessary. as i climb higher on the ladder i'm running into more spdef trans, so hp ground has actually been putting in a lot of work.

    it's not that it's hard to understand, it's just kind of myopic!!

    the 100 atk lets me do an extra 3-5% with u-turn on most pokemon, which, while seemingly minor, is more useful than a) speed tying with genesect because if you play well it never happens (havent actually ever had a situation where it was necessary, and ive probably run into 75 genesects in the past few days) and b) outspeeding stuff nobody uses like scarf hydreigon and scarf/dance max spd jolly haxorus.

    playing gene just to score a special attack boost is kind of limiting. it's obviously a great way to clean (trust me, i'm aware of how potent +1 sunny day flamethrower is), but just as often i'll bring it out on something i ohko regardless of boost, get the attack boost, and pivot out with u-turn, scoring a bit of extra damage in the process. the fact that you're suggesting timid over naive makes me think you're underestimating u-turn's damage output!

    as for threats, newer version has basically 0 trouble with heatran, but dragonite has been killing me. my best answer is forretress but if nite has fire punch i'm fucked. i don't really know how to fix the problem without completely changing the team, though, as i really can't afford to switch my venu to hp ice (its coverage vs scizor and gene and ferro and celebi and jirachi and etc is way too important to give up just to beat dragonite). i'd sooner go back to hp ice on volc but then heatran makes me play my dugtrio so much more carefully and ahhhh

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