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Stunfisk [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Molk, Nov 27, 2011.

  1. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    [​IMG]
    [Overview]

    <p>Ever since its introduction, Stunfisk has been made fun of for its design; it has been called a joke, a failure, and
    quite possibly one of the worst things Gamefreak has ever made. However, when you look more closely at the electric flounder, you will see that this "joke" actually has potential. With excellent defensive stats of 109 / 84 / 99, Stunfisk can tank hits with ease. Additionally, because of its unique dual Electric and Ground typing, Stunfisk is capable of fending off some of the most common threats in the RU metagame. Although Stunfisk seems to be a decent defensive Pokemon, there are several outstanding flaws that seriously hinder its effectiveness. Its dual Electric and Ground typing, while giving it a useful resistance to Stealth Rock and Flying-Type moves, also gives it weaknesses to the common Ice-, Water-, Ground-, and Grass-type attacks that pervade the RU tier. However, if you play your cards right Stunfisk is no joke.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Defensive Derp
    move1: Discharge / Thunderbolt
    move2: Scald / Earth Power
    move3: Rest
    move4: Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Static
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Spd


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is arguably Stunfisk's best set,
    as with 109 / 84 / 99 defenses, Stunfisk can easily abuse a decent RestTalk set. In addition, this set is essentially one of the best Honchkrow counters in the game; it resists Brave Bird, and it is not 2HKOed by Sucker Punch or Hidden Power. Discharge is the most important STAB attack on this set due to its 30% paralysis rate; however, Thunderbolt can be used if you need the extra oomph. Scald is used because of its high burn rate and its ability to hit Ground-types, such as Claydol and Gligar; Earth Power can be used instead, because of its decent coverage and power. Either way, however, this set is walled by Grass-types. Rest and Sleep Talk are vital to this set, as they provide Stunfisk with a semi-reliable form of recovery. While Stunfisk is asleep, it can still potentially fire off attacks via Sleep Talk, which can be a lifesaver. The listed EV spread provides Stunfisk with balanced defenses, allowing it to tank both physical and special attacks well. The EVs can be adjusted to take certain attacks better; for example, specially defensive Stunfisk can tank a Timid Choice Specs Tri Attack from Porygon-Z.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If you don't like the idea of
    using the RestTalk strategy, Pain Split is an option as a pseudo-recovery move that also drains away the opponent's health. It also frees up a moveslot, which can be used for a status move, such as Yawn or Toxic, or another coverage move, such as Scald or Earth Power. Stunfisk likes teammates that resist its weaknesses; Pokemon with abilities such as Water Absorb and Sap Sipper work well with Stunfisk because they benefit from Stunfisk's weaknesses. Pokemon such as Sawsbuck, Bouffalant, and Poliwrath are all excellent abusers of these abilities. However, even when running RestTalk, Toxic is still an option over one of Stunfisk's attacks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move1: Thunderbolt
    move2: Earth Power
    move3: Surf
    move4: Sludge Bomb / Hidden power Fire
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Static
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spa

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Despite having only
    a base 81 Special Attack, Stunfisk makes a great user of Choice Specs. The listed moves give excellent coverage, and they all hit surprisingly hard. This variant of Stunfisk also makes an excellent lure to walls, such as Claydol and Gligar, who try to switch in on Thunderbolt, only to get hit by a super effective Surf. Likewise, Grass-types, which usually wall Stunfisk, switch in only to get hit by a super effective Sludge Bomb or Hidden Power Fire. This set is an excellent wallbreaker, as it 2HKOes most walls with hazard support. In addition, even without investment, it has good natural bulk, which allows it to take a hit or two before striking back. Hidden Power Ice can be used over Hidden Power Fire / Sludge Bomb, but its usage will be limited to targets that are 4x weak to Ice-type attacks, such as Altaria, Torterra, and Gligar, as a neutral Thunderbolt is stronger than a super effective Hidden Power.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>
    Using a Life Orb allows to switch moves, but Stunfisk loses its precious bulk, as well as the power to 2HKO certain walls, such as physically defensive Ferroseed and Uxie. Expert belt is in a similar vein, as Stunfisk loses power against threats that it can't hit for super effective damage. Again, Stunfisk works well with Pokemon that resist its weaknesses, namely Pokemon who have abilities such as Water Absorb and Sap Sipper. Discharge can be used over Thunderbolt for the paralysis rate, allowing Stunfisk to potentially paralyze and outspeed a faster threat, but on a Specs set, the power of Thunderbolt is preferred. Here are some damage calculations of Stunfisk vs. some common walls:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>Thunderbolt vs 252 / 252 Slowking 64.47% - 76.14% (2HKO)</li>

    <li>Surf vs 252 / 0 Gligar 70.66% - 83.23% (2HKO)</li>

    <li>Thunderbolt vs 252 / 0 Uxie 41.81% - 49.44% (Chance of 2HKO after Stealth Rock)</li>

    <li>Sludge Bomb vs 252 / 0 Tangrowth 100.99% - 119.31% (OHKO)</li>

    <li> Earth Power vs 252 / 0 Ferroseed 46.23% - 54.45% (2HKO)</li>

    <li> Earth Power vs 252 / 160 Steelix 114.12% - 134.46% (OHKO)</li>
    </ul>

    [Other options]

    <p>Stunfisk can pull off a Curse set, but it is sorely outclassed by Pokemon such as Muk. Substitute can be used to protect Stunfisk from status and stronger attacks, but due to its low
    Speed, it is better off to simply attack. Thunder Wave can be used to paralyze something, but Stunfisk is usually better off using Discharge due to its 30% paralysis rate. Yawn can be used to put something to sleep, but it is unreliable, and in general, is a terrible move.</p>

    [Checks and counters]

    <p>
    Grass-types can easily take anything outside of a Sludge Bomb, and will heavily dent the flounder with a Power Whip or Giga Drain. Bulky Pokemon with a reliable recovery move give the defensive set trouble, as an uninvested Stunfisk has a somewhat low damage output. Munchlax walls both variants of Stunfisk, but it can't do much else to Stunfisk besides PP stall and phaze it out. Quagsire can switch in on a Thunderbolt and take an uninvested Earth Power or Scald, but it struggles against the Choice Specs set. In general, hail teams and Ice-types give Stunfisk a lot of trouble, as hail negates its Leftovers, and Ice-types can freeze it to death with powerful STAB Blizzards. The defensive Stunfisk set is vulnerable to Pokemon such as SubCM Uxie and Gallade, thanks to its relative lack of power. Even though Stunfisk is very bulky, strong attacks such as Bouffalant's Head Charge will still hit it very hard.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Stunfisk's hidden ability is Sand Veil, which, while useful in the higher tiers, is useless because there is no
    permanent sandstorm to abuse in RU, thus making Static the better option.</p>
  2. Dragonmaster123

    Dragonmaster123

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    On the defensive set, Discharge should be first, as getting Paralysis is very useful.
  3. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    that is arguable, as stunfisk in particular misses the power tbolt provides
  4. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    But then it conflicts with Scald. IMO burn is more useful than paralysis, due to the offensive powerhouses that exsist in the tier.

    EDIT: Ninja'd to some extent.

    Also, Molten, it's supposed to be just "name", not "set name". ;)
  5. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    fixed
  6. Keiran

    Keiran

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    HP Ice should probably be before Sludge Bomb on the Specs set, Sludge bomb is pretty much dead coverage as it only hits Grass types for SE as does HP ice but ice can also hit the rare dragons types in RU AKA Altaria/Drudd and the rare Shelgon
  7. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    idk, stunfisk loses those KOes lol and a super effective Hidden power is only about as powerful as an earth power iirc, so it really only hits torterra and altaria, i decided to slash HP fire instead.
  8. SuperJOCKE

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    Atleast mention HP Ice somewhere.
  9. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    added as you posted lol
  10. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
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    for oo: +twave, yawn, pain split. -spite.

    discharge > tbolt on the main set.

    [QC APPROVED 1/3]
  11. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Stunfish is a piece of shit I think the second set should just be called "Choice Specs" (its not really a flounder...?)

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  12. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    actually, it is a species of fish related to a flounder, but changed anyways.

    and a piece of shit? son i am disappoint
  13. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Visually, its not bad competitively :o
  14. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    i know, im just joking
  15. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Wait, why are you mentioning Sludge Bomb at all, when this thing can learn Sludge Wave, which is more powerful?
  16. EonADS

    EonADS

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    ^ I'd honestly rather have Sludge Bomb's 30% poison chance as opposed to Sludge Wave's extra five BP for a 10% poison chance. Keep Sludge Bomb.
  17. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    Stunfisk literally gains No KOes from using sludge wave, making bomb the better option.
  18. Omicron

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    Make sure to note that Grass-types wall the heck out of the defensive variant, and mention Toxic in the AC of the defensive set maybe?
  19. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    added both, thank you
  20. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    That makes no sense. It's more powerful. It's as simple as that. There's no PP difference, so Sludge Bomb has no advantage there. Sure, it has a 30 percent chance to poison, versus a 10 percent chance of Sludge Wave, but how useful is just normal poison, when your team is likely to run something using Toxic or Thunder Wave or something anyways?


    Sludge Wave should be mentioned, not Sludge Bomb.
  21. EonADS

    EonADS

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    ^ Since Sludge Bomb has a superior extra effect, it is the superior move. It's that simple. The power difference is so minimal that it rarely matters.
  22. Omicron

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    EDIT: ok nvm slash sludge wave get rid of sludge bomb
  23. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    IMO, I see where Clefable's coming from. Normal Poison is kind of bad, actually. The day you hit a Gligar, CM Slowking (idk, I know it's never seen, but just about any bulky booster that you rely on Toxic to beat.) or other bulky boosters with the fearsome normal poison may be the end of you if you rely on Toxic poison to do damage on them. Even if bulky boosters are rare in RU, normal poisoning walls with strong recovery can really screw you over in the long run if you could have Toxic'd instead and gotten much better bang for your buck.

    Also, does your OHKO damage calcs take SR into account? Especially for Lilligant, you may find that she's actually at 100% health because of Giga Drain. I don't think she OHKOs you with an unboosted Giga Drain, so I'd assume that you can OHKO back a 100% Lilligant if you switch to Sludge Wave, allowing you to win in double-switch situations. Actually, nvm that because you'll probably still lose if she chooses to Quiver Dance instead but idk, extra damage is really never bad while the normal poison is kinda underwhelming. Well, you might as well just mention in OO that sludge wave may be better if you run other status moves.
  24. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    okay, slashed
  25. Pwnemon

    Pwnemon judges silently
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    Setnames should be "derpfensive" and "Specsderp"

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