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BW Ubers SubFreeze: A UU Hail Stall Team (Peaked #1)

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Jubilee, Jul 3, 2011.

  1. Jubilee

    Jubilee
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,990
    Okay, so this is the hail-stall team I've been using for the last two rounds that has worked extremely well for me. Peaking at #1 last round (1456) and peaked at 1412 (forget the ranking) this round, as well as getting two of my alts above 1350 this round too. This is probably the most succesful UU team I've ever made in my opinion lol... The team is built around setting up hail, Spikes, Stealth Rock, and Toxic Spikes, whittling down the foe's HP, and the use of SubStalling. However, this team is gettling a little 'old' so I decided to post it and see if anyone had any opinions/changes to make it better. Especially changes to better handle the threats I list at the bottom.​


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    Team Building Process
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow: Every hail team needs either Abomasnow or Snover, and since Abomanow is allowed in UU this gen he's the obvious choice. His SubSeed set looked the most appealing to me and it also helps in stalling so I picked that set.
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    Nidoqueen: Every hail team needs something to set up Toxic Spikes, Nidoqueen was the perfect choice for this. She has access to Stealth Rock, has amazing physical bulk my team greatly needs, and is a Poison-type. Which allows her to absorb Toxic Spikes on my side that destroy my team and a Fighting-type resist which my team gravely needs, especially Pokemon like Heracross.
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    Hitmontop: Every hail team needs a rapid spinner and Hitmontop is my favorite out of all of them in UU. He has great physical bulk, Intimidate, a strong STAB in Close Combat that allows me to hit Steel-types who give this team trouble hard, and has access to Foresight which guarantees me to pull off a Rapid Spin.

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    Walrein: I love Walrein, so cute. Yes, that is my only reason other than it being an incredible staller and having much needed special bulk to the team. ^_^
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    Victini: I needed something with Speed and power to revenge kill certain threats. Victini was perfect for this and it hits extremely hard with V-Create. It is also one of my favorite UU Pokemon. :D
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    Kyurem: The last spot belonged to Kyurem, but he got the much needed banhammer and was replaced. His sheer power and bulk is missed though. :(
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    Froslass: Although it was hard to replace Kyurem, the next best thing was Froslass. She provided the team with a much needed Ghost-typing, great Speed, and access to Taunt and Spikes, two very helpful moves for this team.


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    In Depth View

    The Snow Summoner
    [​IMG]@ Leftovers
    Abomasnow
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 192 HP / 60 Defense / 52 Special Defense / 204 Speed
    Moveset: Blizzard / Leech Seed / Substitute / Grass Knot
    Details: EVs and nature provide Abomasnow with 'magic HP number', bulk, especially some special bulk, and the Speed EVs allow him to outspeed all bulky waters (the fastest being Suicune) provided they don't invest (heavily) into Speed. Also, None of the bulky waters can break his substitutes with Scald, Surf, or Ice Beam provided they have no boosts. The moveset allows me to stall out the foe with Substitute while gaining back HP with Leech Seed. Grass Knot is to hit bulky Water-types who give this team trouble such as Suicune and Milotic, while Blizzard is for a powerful STAB. Abomasnow is my primary check to bulky waters and Electric-type Pokemon like Jolteon and Aura Sphere-less Raikou and of course sets up hail to support Froslass and Walrein.

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    The Toxic Spiker
    [​IMG]@ Leftovers
    Nidoqueen
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Defense / 4 Special Defense
    Ability: Poison Point
    Moveset: Earth Power / Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock / Blizzard
    Details: The EVs and nature provide Nidoqueen with as much physical bulk as possible. Nidoqueen is my team's much needed Fighting- and Rock-type resist that would otherwise wipe out this team. She also provides the team with much needed Toxic Spike support which allows me to deal with bulky waters that are an extreme nuisance to this team. Earth Power for STAB and Blizzard to hit Pokemon like Staraptor, Donphan, and Zapdos super effectively.​

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    The Spinner
    [​IMG]@ Leftovers
    Hitmontop
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Defense / 4 Special Defense
    Ability: Intimidate
    Moveset: Close Combat / Sucker Punch / Rapid Spin / Foresight
    Details: EVs and nature provide Hitmontop with as much physical bulk as possible which allows him to spin against threats like Donphan and Rhyperior. Hitmontop is an extremely important part of this team, without him Stealth Rock chips off 25% of 4 other teammates. Close Combat for Steel-types like Empoleon and Registeel who give this team a lot of trouble, especially Empoleon and Foresight guarantees a Rapid Spin. Hitmontop is my check to a lot of physical Pokemon like Flygon, Rhyperior, Cobalion, and Snorlax to name a few.​

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    I Don't Die <3
    [​IMG]@ Leftovers
    Walrein
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 220 HP / 36 Defense / 244 Special Defense / 8 Speed
    Ability: Ice Body
    Moveset: Blizzard / Substitute / Protect / Roar
    Details: EVs and nature provide Walrein a leftovers number, as much special bulk as possible, and the 8 Speed EVs are kind of random, I just put them there to outspeed other Walreins... Anyways, Walrein provides the team with much needed special bulk support and is the best Pokemon on this team at stalling the foe out. Substitute and Protect allow Walrein to lose no HP from using Substitute and Roar is for set up Pokemon like Snorlax, Suicune, Kingdra, and to just shuffle through and cause damage to the opponent's team. Walrein can take hits extremely well especilly from the special side which is very needed on this team. She can survive pretty much every special attack out there as long as it isn't STABed and backed up by any boosts (LO Zapdos Thunderbolt fails to KO at full HP, although it does do like 80-90%...)​

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    The ReVenge Killer
    [​IMG]@ Choice Scarf
    Victini
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Attack / 4 Defense / 252 Speed
    Moveset: V-Create / Zen Headbutt / U-Turn / Wild Bolt
    Details: With a Choice Scarf, Victini basically outspeeds the whole tier provided they don't have base 100 Speed at +1 / Choice Scarf. Victini revenge kills so many threats to this team including Mismagius, Roserade, Raikou, Zapdos, Staraptor, Celebi, Durant, Cobalion, Zoroark, Mew, Froslass, Venomoth, and Heracross just to name a few. OHKOing all of them (provided not heavily invested into bulk.) Victini also provides the team with another Pokemon to combat against Steel-type Pokemon who of course give this team trouble. U-Turn and V-Create are really the only moves I use, U-Turn allows Victini to scout and V-Create just has sheer power behind it Zen Headbutt is reliable Psychic STAB to hit Pokemon like Hitmontop and Heracross. Wild Charge hits bulky waters, but I rarely even use the move anyways. ​

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    The Spin Blocker
    [​IMG]@ Leftovers
    Froslass
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 224 HP / 108 Defense / 176 Speed
    Moveset: Blizzard / Taunt / Substitute / Spikes
    Details: The EVs and nature give Froslass some bulk, a 'magic HP number', enough Speed to outspeed base 100 Pokemon, and the rest was dumped into Defense. Froslass' Ghost-typing provides the team with a much needed Rapid Spin blocker. Taunt is an extremely valuable move to this team. Not only does it prevent the foe from setting up hazards of their own, but more importanly stops set up SleepTalkers from beating my team. Pokemon like Milotic, Snorlax, and Suicune all wall this team with Rest, however if I have Toxic Spikes up I can Taunt them from resting and keep substituting until they faint or miss. With Substitute and Taunt it also completely walls Chansey and prevents it from Heal Bell / Wish passing. Froslass can easily set up three layers of Spikes with Snow Cloak and Substitute. Blizzard is to hit Pokemon like Celebi and Zapdos.​

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    Team Threats
    I'm feeling a little lazy right now and don't feel like typing up an entire list of all the Pokemon and how they're handled, so I'll just point out the Pokemon who are a great inconvienence / threat to this team... Any opinions on what Pokemon would help combat against these threats would be extremely appreciated.​

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    Blastoise: Resists Blizzard and has Rapid Spin... He almost guarantees to get a Rapid Spin agaisnt my team since I can't do anything back. Walrein doesn't outspeed him so Walrein can potentially be Toxiced / Roared out, Froslass can Taunt it, but is helpless other than that, and Abomasnow can SubSeed on it unless it carries Roar and can do some damage with Grass Knot, but not a lot.. Rest versions are extremely difficult to KO... The only hope I have agaisnt Blastoise is if I already have Toxic Spikes up and can Taunt / Substitute stall it with Froslass.​

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    Empoleon: This Pokemon is extremely annoying to this team. 4x resists Blizzard, Scald burns me everytime, and Stealth Rock and Roar shuffle through and cause 25% to 4/6ths of my Pokemon... The only thing I can do back is Taunt it with Froslass which stops it from using Stealth Rock and Roar, but Froslass is still helpless against it. Abomasnow can Leech Seed it, but other than that it can't do much damage with Grass Knot. Walrein is luckily faster and can Roar Empoleon out, but like the other two is helpless other than that. Victini can do about 70-75% with V-Create, but is then OHKOed by Scald. Hitmontop doesn't even OHKO with Close Combat and from my experience is burned each time... >_<​

    [​IMG]
    Staraptor: Choice Scarf variants either OHKO/2HKO my whole team, so I can't switch into it at all. The only Pokemon who can KO it without being outspeed (still a speed tie if both are Jolly) is Victini who can OHKO with V-Create. However, if Victini isn't out I have to sacrifice something, I usually sacrifice Nidoqueen who can take two hits from Choice Scarf versions. This usually wears it down to 20-30% sometimes KOing itself if Poison Point activiates. If one of my Pokemon have a Substitute up I can stall it out with its recoil damage or just hit it with a STAB Blizzard.​

    [​IMG]
    Victini: Just like Staraptor it OHKO/2HKOes my whole team and it resists Blizzard. Choice Scarf variants also outspeed my whole team and can hit them with V-Create. Same as Staraptor again, I have to wear it down with Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes, and hail damage. If my Pokemon have Substitutes up I can stall it out until its slower than me or make it run out of V-Create PP. Hitmontop can hit it with a super effective Sucker Punch as well which does around 40-50% at -1. Other than that it's a serious threat to my team​
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  2. Ubiquitous

    Ubiquitous

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
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    To solve your Blastoise and Empoleon problem you could try running Thunderbolt on Froslass, possibly over Substitute or Taunt. I'm not sure if they 2HKO, but i'm sure that it can significantly dent them and deter them from switching in happily on almost every member of the team. Staraptor and Victini will probably be banned anyway, so... lol.

    Otherwise i'm not surprised that this team got to No.1, it's very well built. Good Luck!
  3. IronBullet93

    IronBullet93 Sitting on a cornflake waiting for the van to come
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    Hey,

    This is a very nice team, but you have one troubling weakness: Blastoise/Milotic with Toxic. They can easily outstall your team with Toxic and Scald, and you can do practically nothing about it as Victinis Wild Charge doesn't do nearly enough. Matters become worse if your opponent has a poison type, as then you have no hope of stalling it out. An easy way to remedy this would be to try out Wood Hammer or Grass Knot over either Blizzard or Protect on Abomasnow. Both Blizzard and Protect obviously have their props, but it depends on whether you prefer a free turn of leech seed recovery or another attack. Another option would be Toxic on Walrein over Roar. This now allows you to stall out Milotic. If it's RestTalk Milo, however, then your only hope really is Wood Hammer or Grass Knot on Abomasnow.

    Id prefer dumping the sp atk evs on Froslass into defense so that you can take hits from common spinners such as Donphan more effectively. Great team, and good luck!
  4. Jubilee

    Jubilee
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Thanks for the rate however, Taunt and Substitute are moves I really wouldn't like to change.

    Thank you for the rate, I have been thinking about trying another attack on Abomasnow, but never actually went about doing it. I will try Grass Knot first so I don't have to change my nature/spread around. I'm pretty sure it will hit Empoleon for some decent damage as well.
    Roar has too much use to my team, it allows me to Roar out set up SleepTalkers (and sweepers in general like CM Slowbro and Mismagius) that didn't come in when Toxic Spikes were up so I actually have a chance at KOing them when they come back in. Its ability to shuffle through the foe's team is very useful as well.
    Yeah, I've considered moving the some EVs into Frolass's Defense as well, being OHKOed by Donphan EQ kind of sucks, so i'll try that as well lol.
    Thanks again. :)
  5. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Hi there :D

    Anyways, I really like your hail team, it exemplefies what hail is all about in UU. Having faced it several times, I know that this team is very annoying, and I´ve only managed to beat it maybe once or twice :P

    From my experience battling you, once Victini is gone, opposing Froslass can abuse your perma hail and Taunt your team into oblivion. It can also 2HKO Nidoqueen with Ice Beam given some SpA investment, and other than Victini, Nidoqueen is the only one with a chance against opposing Froslass. I honestly don´t like SubSeed Abomasnow since it has so many weaknesses to be exploited and its hella slow, and since there are better SubSeeders out there, but it seems to have worked for you so far.

    I don´t know what else to say haha, you made me hate hail xD

    Great team overall, just a few threats to watch out for, but even those can be played around with smart switching and prediction and things like that.
  6. bygbyrd

    bygbyrd

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
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    Hi Jubilee! Your team is pretty solid, but so many waters, especially those with rest, are a problem. To alleviate this and give your team more of an offensive presence, I would swap out froslass for Rotom-Fridge. The set would look like this :

    Rotom-F @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Blizzard
    - Substitute
    - Pain Split

    STAB bolt-beam is nothing to mess around with. This guy can dent basically everything as well as abuse the life orb recoil with pain split. I hope this helps :D
  7. fatty

    fatty
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    as noted, you're pretty weak to opposing bulky waters, especially ones with toxic, and you lack a reliable staraptor switch-in. on top of that, you also don't really have a very good switch-in into CB Escavalier, who seems like it could be a major pain for you to face.
    thankfully, i think this can easily be remedied by making a simple from ScarfTini to SubRoost Zapdos. you say in your description that victini revenge kills threats such as cobalion, celebi, raikou, durant, and heracross (there's more but i won't name them all), but you have a way to deal with almost everyone of these threats outside of revenge killing. for this reason, i don't really feel that you need a dedicated revenge killer and would benefit a lot more from zapdos. as for what zapdos does for the team, it easily deals with those bulky waters that you had trouble with before, helps with the stalling nature of the team with pressure +subroost, and gives you a fairly reliable switch-in into staraptor and escavalier. here's the set...

    hope that helped at least a little bit, good luck with the team!
  8. Jubilee

    Jubilee
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Yeah, Froslass can be a little tricky and Victini is the only Pokemon on the team that can OHKO. Other than that I just have to BlizzSpam it lol...

    I've actually tried Rotom-F over Victini before except it was a bulky rest-talk variant. I've never thought about replacing Froslass due to it being the only thing being able to block Rapid Spin, has access to Taunt, and can outspeed base 100s... But, I'll give that Rotom a shot, thanks. :)

    I actually really like the idea of Zapdos over Victini... You pretty much covered every reason why, I will definitely try this, thanks! :)

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