1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

SubToxic Tentacruel

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Mynism, Jan 25, 2012.

  1. Mynism

    Mynism

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    [​IMG]

    Tentacruel

    [SET]
    name: SubToxic
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Toxic
    move 3: Rapid Spin
    move 4: Scald
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Rain Dish
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Unlike Tentacruel's classic Rapid Spin set, this set surrenders Toxic Spikes, to beat its usual counters and function as a good wallbreaker. It also takes full advantage of its ability Rain Dish, with Substitute, and status-spreading moves. Substitute is the main move in this set, abusing Rain Dish's 12.5% recovery in rain. It prevents opposing status, while helping the jellyfish spread its own. Toxic pairs well with Substitute, as it allows Tentacruel to get past Jellicent and prevents opposing Pokemon from setting up. With Rain Dish activated, Toxic helps it stall its enemies out effectively. Due to the prevalence of hazards in the metagame, Rapid Spin is also a must. Scald is its only attacking move, but is very useful. It burns Ferrothorn and other Pokemon immune to Toxic, making Substitute shine even more.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>By reaching 264 Speed, Tentacruel can Toxic Pokemon, such as Substitute Gyarados and Dragonite before they even set up. It also helps it set up Substitute against defensive Pokemon, such as Specially Defensive Jirachi and other Tentacruel. 252 HP EVs are allotted for maximum recovery and what's left is added to Defense for the bulk. Sludge Bomb can be used over Toxic for as a second STAB, but while it hurts Grass-types, the lack of Toxic impairs this set. Toxic Spikes can also be used over Toxic, but the same problem applies.</p>

    <p>Politoed is without a doubt the most appreciated teammate, with Drizzle enabling Tentacruel to abuse Rain Dish. Teammates with Pursuit really help Tentacruel, since they can KO Substitute Latias. Pokemon with Natural Cure and Heal Bell users, such as Blissey, Chansey, and Celebi, which don't mind status are also decent teammates. Dugtrio is useful as well, ensuring the rain lasts forever by trapping Tyranitar and Ninetales, as well as trapping Blissey and Chansey. With prediction, Dugtrio can also defeat Toxicroak, something very important, since otherwise it can just switch in on Tentacruel and use it as a set up bait. Other obvious partners are those with a weakness to Stealth Rock; there are many choices for these. Tentacruel has good synergy with Pokemon resisting its weaknesses and vice versa, such as Terrakion, Ferrothorn, and Landorus. Lastly, Heal Bell support is ideal, since a random Thunder Wave, or burn destroys the set.</p>
  2. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,172
    I've been using this set as well, it's pretty awesome. A lot of people think they can bring Ferrothorns into Tentacruel, only to get all of their Power Whip PP drained and Leech Seed blocked. It's also a great Jellicent troll.

    After a while of using this set I decided to put Toxic Spikes over Toxic since I had so many free turns with it. Toxic just wasn't cutting it because it was only useful on slow Dragonite, and you can't beat Rotom-W anyways. I'd give it a slash on that moveslot.
  3. Mynism

    Mynism

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    I think I'll AC it since it just makes Tenta unable to beat Jellicent and let him be a set-up fodder for Gyarados, Latios, .. And Substitute purpose without Toxic is like only beating Ferrothorn. But yeah, it DOES deserves a mention
  4. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,983
    This looks like a pretty interesting set actually, I might use it on my team.

    One suggestion I do have is to give Tentacruel 80 special attack evs. They allow Tentacruel to always 1HKO Dugtrio with scald, which otherwise you can get an low damage roll and end up losing a spinner.
  5. Mynism

    Mynism

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    90% of the Duggys run Focus Sash and this set is supposed to be played under rain (and anyway most Duggy are on sun team...). Its far from being worth it. And even if no duggy runned sash id have doubt about wasting 80 def evs on killing duggy

    edit : and if under a sub it beat duggy whatever the evs !!
  6. Blue_Star

    Blue_Star
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    763
    Awesome set. Maybe mention Protect in the AC?
  7. Mynism

    Mynism

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    Substitute, speed an Toxic is what differenciate this set from the classic one. I think Substitute is superior to Protect with the evs and the rain. If you want to use Tentacruel in a non-rain team, just use the classic spinner set which is way better in this condition.
  8. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,983
    Pfft, sub, derp. Ok whatever.
  9. corrupt vergil

    corrupt vergil

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Messages:
    31
    can you bring battle logs?cause i dont believe this set beats ferrothorn
  10. Delko

    Delko "ghost mod"
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,326
    Didn't j7r's post explain it?
    Substitute blocks Leech Seed and you can PP stall Power Whip. Not to mention you can burn with Scald and keep Sub'ing until Ferrothorn dies.

    Anyway, this is an effective set and very fun to use. Thanks for sharing it Mynism!
  11. BTzz

    BTzz spams overhand rights
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    689
    Cool set Mynism! You could mention Water Pulse in AC as an option over Scald for the confusion hax. I would imagine trying to take down Tenta while poisoned + confused being quite difficult.

    Oh and Sludge Bomb is an option so you can still Toxic the opponent if they Taunt you. It also has some decent power with STAB.

    And I would change the name to Sub Staller or something since Rapid Spin is standard on Tenta.
  12. Mynism

    Mynism

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    Sludge bomb induces normal poison and is already an option.
    I'll change the name :)

    About Water Pulse I'm rejecting it for the following reasons : #1 Scald is more useful overall 2# Scald is stronger 3# 30% of Burn > 20% of Confusion 4# Water Pulse doesn't beat Ferrothorn and Tentacruel 5# It's better to Sub stall during Toxic than trying to confuse and take damages.
  13. Danilo

    Danilo
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,253
    I hate this damn set. Played against it what and it kind whopped my ass. mention how good this set is against stall/defensive teams.
  14. Knight of Cydonia

    Knight of Cydonia dance commander
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2011
    Messages:
    249
    I used this once with protect over rapid spin for more efficient stalling and left spinning to my starmie, but it did mean that against ferro and other tentas they would get hazards up while I went for the burn. I guess you have to decide if you want better stalling or keep the probably more useful rapid spin.
  15. Danilo

    Danilo
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,253
    One of Tenta's qualities is being an incredibly efficient rapid spinner, so I don't know if you should consider protect, even though it helps gain tons of hp
  16. Nova

    Nova Samsung Alpaca
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,521
    Black Sludge over Lefties?
  17. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Danned Beucer.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,405
    I think Toxic Spikes should be slashed with Toxic instead of AC material, based on what j7r said.
  18. MegaKick

    MegaKick

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,482
    black sludge isnt used over leftovers because it gives trickers a weapon to use against your team. But it deserves a mention in AC i think.
  19. Mynism

    Mynism

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    Black Sludge could be mentioned but since Leftovers is better.. would be odd to mention. Especially since this set is destined to be used in a semi-stall/stall team.

    I already answered to the rest
  20. Slash Protect with Rapid Spin.

    PS. used it before, its good but i don't use rapid spin lol.
  21. Ojama

    Ojama May your scattered remains entertain me
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Palace Mavenis the Smogon Tour Season 15 Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,952
    Great set bro i used it a lot and of course it beats ferro lol. Just watch out with tar + ss cause you could lose your hp quickly with sub
  22. Onicon

    Onicon

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,044
    Somehow I saw this one coming after SubToxic-Gliscor; Protect really should at least have a honorable mention in the case we just need more PP, additionally recovery or the infamous sub-lock. If you ask me it shouldn't be used without Substitute, then again we had to drop Rapid Spin. It' probably a matter of our own preferences.
  23. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    882
    Black Sludge should only really be used in Item-Clause matches, as Tentacruel has no way of abusing the difference between it and Leftovers, whilst opposing Trick users do.
  24. Mynism

    Mynism

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    Thing about slashing protect with rapid spin is that the main purpose of this set is to beat spikers/spinblockers, making the spinning more effective. Yes, it does wallbreak but its far from being his only goal. If you want a wallbreaker, definitely use something else. Dont forget its supposed to be used on semi-stall/stall rain teams, which are by definition weak to spikes and sr. And in such teams you won't use a mon that only wall infernape and scizor with a burn, where both are not known for wrecking havoc.

    And again, its weather dependant. It ISNT Sub Gliscor with Poison heal, resistance to sand damages and overall better stats. If you want something slashed explain clearly why, im not gonna slash things to make people glad and explain that they are just inferior.

    edit : sorry if i look agressive, im always like that ><
  25. prem

    prem failed abortion
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,778
    mention sub set-up mons (only one i can think of is subcm latias but there are probably more) they literally dont give a crap what tenta is doing and tenta wont be able to stop them from setting up. also mention mons that beat them. scizor is great cause latias would only run dragon pulse and it will win, though latias can leave with a sub

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)