Suggestions

Discussion in 'Past Generation Contributions' started by eric the espeon, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Post suggestions for guides, peer edits and the like here, it will be looked over and the mods will decide whether its wanted for the site.

    You do not actually need to get approval here to post anything, but it greatly reduces the chance of you wasting a lot of time on something that Smogon does not want. Remember that even if something is wanted by Smogon, it will still be rejected if done poorly. Obviously if your idea is rejected here and you go off and write it anyway, it will most probably be rejected.

    Before suggesting anything here please read all of the following:
    • Don't be afraid to suggest things. Unless its clearly stupid or has been suggested before, all relevant suggestions are welcome. If its not a good idea we will say so.
    • Always check to see if your idea has been suggested before.
    • In your suggestion post, state whether you are offering to write what you suggest, or just think its a good idea to have. This will mean that other people know whether they should offer to do the suggestion.
    • Present your idea as well as you can. This means using correct grammar, spelling and outlining exactly what would be needed for what you are suggesting, as well as any uncertainties you have about it.
    • If you are suggesting an edit of something that already exists, always provide a link back to the original. It saves everyone you are trying to convince from having to go searching for it.
    • Small changes to analysis that should not go in this thread are outlined Here and Here.
    • Suggestions that are not about single pages, such as guides, peer edits and item analysis, should generally go in the Suggestion Box forum.

    Feel free to comment on other people's suggestions, but try to avoid replies that consist simply of "good idea" especially if its already clear from other responses that the suggestion is wanted. Try to add something useful to the discussion.

    Approved suggestions:
    <suggestion name> - <person working on it>

    Approved by caelum. If mods want to edit or add to any of the above, go ahead.
  2. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    I'd like to suggest a guide to Late-game. How do you prepare to Late-game during team building, and during early and mid-game; genral tips on how to behave in late-game situations divided for game-style (Stall's late-game, Offense's late-game, Weather offense's late-game and so on). I have some ideas and I could write such a guide by myself, but if someone wants to helps, that's fine too.
  3. mtr

    mtr

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    How about a guide to building, implementing (on a team), and effectively playing lures in various metagames? Something like: what makes a good lure, how can I make sure my team uses it well, and how can I make sure it does what I want it to do in a match? Maybe a subsection on what separates a lure from a gimmick...

    I would be happy to write it up, but I'll probably need somebody to do UU since I don't know much about it. Also, although I'm decent at Ubers, I'm young compared to much of the community, so plenty of players have more expertise there than me.
  4. Maxim

    Maxim

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    Team Creating Guide

    One idea I had was to build a guide detailing the basics of building a team.

    Often while browsing through the RMT forums for ideas, I see many RMTs being locked due to not long enough descriptions. Obviously some of the people are not thinking about the rules at all, but others come to Smogon, build a team, then immediately go about building a RMT, only to be discouraged when they get locked due to breaking one rule or another. If the guide were to be built, those types of people would probably be able to build a decently acceptable team and probably work on it if it fails.

    Now they could also sign up for the Battling 101 program, trouble is, there is a limited amount of tutors, and, if the new signup system somehow doesn't work it is very hard to get in [I doubt that will be an issue, but you never know], and it even takes three weeks to complete. Some of us just aren't that patient.

    What will this guide specifically contain? Let me give some points of what I had in mind:

    • 1. Specify techniques to come up with an awesome team [such as using a team builder or looking at the RMT archives.]
    • 2. Give overviews of the "triad of style" types of teams: Offence, Balance, and Stall.
    • 3. Give a list of tried-and-true pokemon that work with each team, focusing mostly on the OU metagame, but also giving a few examples from Ubers and UU.
    • 4. Not sure if this will be appropriate, but perhaps some quick battling tips.
    • 5. Other relevant topics on the matter [such as links to the hail stall guide, just as an example]
    As for who will write it, I'm not so sure, if somebody looks interested, they are welcome to try, just be sure to post so that we don't have two versions of the same thing.

    Thank you for looking at this long post.
  5. diinbong

    diinbong *it's in you to give*
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    I think talking about different types of teams and giving suggestions on how to apply strategy to teams (DDGyara+Metagross, etc.) offensively and defensively would be a nice basic guide (in response to Maxim).

    And zarator, I think that guide would be best a bit more broad to be similar to this long term thinking guide of RSE. The information is basically the same, the examples and explanations just need to be adjusted to suit DPP.

    What is "late game"?
    How to Prepare for Late Game
    Late Game Teambuilding
    Win Conditions
    Conclusion
  6. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    I would like to suggest a guide to Hidden Power that compiles and adds to information from Toothache's Technician Hidden Power Guide, the maths behind Hidden Power from the move description page, AA/X-Act's list of useful legal IV/Nature combinations (which could probably be expanded upon), and Aeolus's R/S list of alternate useful Hidden Power IV Spreads (with the addition of TR spreads, min Atk spreads for non physical attackers wishing to reduce confusion damage, and maybe more 30 HP spreads for SR damage reduction). It may also be a good idea to list some of the useful spreads available for Hidden Powers on legendarys with the restrictions imposed by Shoddy. This guide could also go into what kind of Pokemon tend to use Hidden Power effectively and which tend to be competitively viable in different metagames. It would help players to learn about Hidden Power without searching through several threads and pages all over Smogon.

    It could be placed as an article and linked to from several places to avoid replication of information (like here), or n the move description page (this would somewhat go against convention). If it becomes an article then the move description page should link to it.

    I am not offering to write it right now, but if no one else volunteers I may be able to do so once a few other things are finished. Would be happy to work with someone on it if they want ideas.
  7. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    I know about that guide, but I think it is too limited and generic. I wanted something more in-depth and detailed like:

    1) What late-game is
    2) How to prepare to late-game during Team Building
    a) Late-game sweepers
    b) "Win conditions" (Trick, Encore, Perish Song, Explosion etc)
    3) How to prepare to late-game in battle
    a) Bulky Offense's late-game
    b) Heavy Offense's late-game
    c) Stall late-game
    d) Weather Offense's late-game (with Weather I include also Trick Room and Gravity)
    (You could add more categories here)
    4) Conclusion

    Basically, what I disliked about the guide you linked is that it did little to distinguish between the stallish and the offensive styles, which play very differently their late-games (and the aforementioned guide is a bit biased towards offense IMO). Also, to people who say "there is little you can do to prepare for late-game", this is false. A bad built offensive team, for example, can lose to Empoleon no matter how you play it. And even a well built team cannot face late-game situations properly if they have not behaved well in the early and mid-game (assuming they do not have as well team building issues).

    Most people think that preparing for late-game is impossible because there are so many scenarios you should describe in a guide for it. Well, let me say that, for comparison's sake, there exist guides to late-game for chess: they are 800-page books with a miriad of situations which could derive from the standard 20 or so openings.

    In short, I think such a guide is not impossible, and definitely not useless. It would be long, VERY detailed and full of specific examples and explainations, but still functional and much needed IMO.

    Also, this thread needs more input! There are a lot of possibilities for articles, guides and so on.
  8. vashta

    vashta "It was pretty cool to watch Tim Duncan from afar"
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    This is/has been going on over a few months with on-and-off (severely off) periods. Split into three separate articles covering each of the three dominant styles of play.

    Stall is to be posted anytime now, for example.
  9. Maxim

    Maxim

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    Ah yes, I thought I heard that somewhere, but I suppose I figured that was a rumor :pirate:.
  10. rayquazamaster776

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    The Sunny Day guide is greatly outdated, as it uses a tier list from a year ago, at least. It needs to be rewritten.
  11. monkfish

    monkfish what are birds?
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    Ah, just the thread I was looking for..

    Firstly I was thinking that the articles section could do with a few links to the great strategy articles that appear regularly in the Smog.

    Secondly, I would like to make a suggestion for an article about 'control' in both teambuilding and battle. I would probably quite enjoy writing it myself but I don't have much time on my hands for the next couple of months so if someone wants to run with this idea that would be cool.
    When I say 'control', what I mean is forcing your opponent's hand and gaining the momentum in battle. The teambuilding section would be chiefly concerned with moves/movesets that greatly influence your control of the game, and how you can design a team to have the best chance of both taking control from the start of the game and retaining/regaining control throughout. The battle section would probably look at specific scenarios using a team built in the teambuilding section.
  12. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
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    This was actually going to be my next RMT theme. I can probably easily translate it into an article.
  13. ostrigal

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    Smogon's Strategy Pokedex is a nice tool for quick reference. I think there may be a way to speed it up.

    Is there a way to search the 'dex using multiple input? With a simple data entry feature, a person would be able to find all pokemon that can learn Yawn + Pursuit... or all Water Absorbers who can learn Thunder... or all Imprisoning Safeguarding Protectors.

    If there were a 'build-a-pokemon' feature where one could enter the desired moves/abilities from the existing database it could speed up the 'dex tremendously.
  14. monkfish

    monkfish what are birds?
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    ostrigal - I suggested (and started work on) such a feature a year ago but I wasn't experienced enough to complete it. I will probably give it another crack in May
  15. Phantom_IV

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    Given its usage, Scarf Tyranitar needs to be moved up a few slots and might deserve a small revamp, including the mention of some special attacking options.

    I would say that a guide to earlygame is just as important as a guide to lategame. Inexperienced players often reveal all their pokes off the bat, or fail to scout the opponent's moveset (Forry not scouting for HP fire, Swampert not scouting for HP grass, etc).
  16. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    I brought monkfish's first suggestion up in #is, generally supported but jimbo said he wanted to bring it up with other Smog people before we added them.

    ostrigal: that kind of suggestion is more appropriate for the suggestion box forum, this is for article/analysis suggestions.

    Phantom IV: Made the change to set ordering after checking stats and asking #stark, could do with a bit of a rewrite to emphasize it's ability to deal with Latias better but I'll leave that for a peer edit.

    An article about control could be pretty good if it was well written imo.

    edit: I did bring up rayquazamaster776's suggestion on #C&C soon after he posted it and a couple of people agreed to work on it, but forgot to post.
  17. monkfish

    monkfish what are birds?
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    We have item analyses; would it not be a nice idea to have move analyses too? Obviously not for every move but for the more popular strategic ones out there (Think: SR, spikes, trick, t-wave etc) it would be cool to have some discussion on uses of the moves and their best users
  18. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    I don't see why not, would be quite helpful for newer players especially with the interesting but slightly obscure moves like Snatch and Memento, there are already a few articles devoted to specific moves (mostly RS ones), but we would want much more condensed information than those for the actual move pages. If a SSer or someone gives this the go ahead I can get together a list of what moves want doing, some guidelines, and we'll have ourselves a little project.

    Edit: "and their best users"
    should probably avoid the moves turning into mini analyses for common Pokemon, focus on the move.
  19. jumpluff

    jumpluff ghosts will come & kiss our eyes
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    Good idea. I would find this interesting and I'm sure many would find it informative. Volunteering for the project if it goes ahead.
  20. monkfish

    monkfish what are birds?
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    re:
    i was thinking of the use case that i commonly encounter where i think "hmmm, i have a pretty good team here but i really need an appropriate SR user"

    even just a quick bullet-point list of common users would be nice for this scenario

    edit: i agree ete, link to specific analyses of good users
  21. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    A bullet point list of good users of certain moves in various metagames could be helpful I guess, but probably best to link to the analyses (with a set specific link like this) rather than going into any detail on specific users in the move analysis imo.
  22. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    I actually started on a project like this a while back, and got about halfway through completion before it stopped (I either gave up or a moderator rejected it, can't remember which). Although I did it slightly differently - rather than having analyses for different moves, I organised it as a sort of anthology/article, and put slightly more emphasis on where you were likely to come across these moves in a competitive context (and hence offensive moves were a lot more commonly referred to).

    In short, in my own opinion it's a good idea, but from what I remember I don't expect everyone to think the same way.
  23. monkfish

    monkfish what are birds?
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    Personally I wouldn't be that bothered about offensive moves - if I need an Earthquake user then it is probably in response to a specific threat, in which case I can just go to the analysis for that threat.

    Do you still have the writing you did?
  24. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    For straight out offensive moves (Surf, EQ, Ice Beam) all you really need is the list of Pokemon that get it in the right tier/their stats to see if they can use it/link to their analysis. Since all of these are already on the moves page it would only be very useful to have item analyses for somewhat "interesting" moves that are competitively viable. Including straight out offence moves could work if there is careful thought put into it (eg comparison of Surf against Hydro Pump, table of what attack you need to OHKO/2HKO certain Pokemon in OU with Earthquake), but I'd not be so keen on having a paragraph of "X is a high power move with good coverage. Use on physical/special sweepers.".

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