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Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Adrian Marin, Apr 18, 2013.
Splash has 64 PP and could be abused?
I came up with this set:
Riolu @ Toxic Orb
EVs: 252 Spe
IVs: 5 HP / 5 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SAtk / 4 SDef / 29 Spe
-Protect / Subsitute
-Hidden Power [Poison]
Once the Roar chain starts, there is no stopping him. While Roar can be prevented through Taunt, Riolu can simply Protect+Copycat the Taunt back at the user. Roar + Prankster Copycat means that any Pokemon without priority (non-existent in this meta) or Protect will be phazed out before they can even move. This makes Toxic damage build up quickly. Sub is an alternative over Protect to make damage build up faster, but you can no longer Prankster Copycat status moves such as Taunt effectively. Hidden Power Poison is in case you get Taunted and the IVs provide a HP Poison of BP 30
Also, I theorymonned the following set
Deoxys-A @ Iapapa Berry / Berserk Gene (when will this get released?)
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0SDef
-Skill Swap / Taunt
-Recycle / Taunt
-Knock Off / Fling
This is only in theory, mind you. Sub down to Iapapa range, get confused and hope you hit yourself. You easily KO yourself even after the recovery. Recycle is to retrieve the berry after it is eaten so you can confuse yourself multiple times. If Berserk Gene was released, Deoxys-A actually OHKOs itself of it hits itself, that shows how, er, amazing its defenses are. Fling if you already used your berry / gene and didn't opt for Recycle. No damage is good news for a Pokemon with an insane attack stat.
I like the PerishTrapping Smeargle set but I'd go with Whirlwind + Knock Off and Toxic Orb, so in case you fail to get off Perish Song you can still outstall yourself with Toxic Orb.
Alakazam is really good in this metagame.
I ran a very similar Riolu, and while it does its job well, it doesn't stop the opponent from doing their job - Black Sludge and status will continue to lower the opponent's health after you Roar out a new Pokemon.
Never. Berserk Gene is not programmed into any game after the second generation. As far as that Deo-A set goes, it seems too slow and tricky to get to work.
If I do this, the set has absolutely no way of avoiding Taunt, which is the entire point of Magic Guard / Mental Herb. The entire point is to Perish Trap yourself, and the extra bulk + Ingrain is there to ensure that you pull it off.
EDIT @ post below: God damn, that is an amazing idea... if Smeargle didn't have massive 4MSS that way.
Maybe Baton Pass would be a good idea, so you could Perish/Ingrainpass? Don't really know how relevant that would be.
Baton Pass Smeargle... Gotta try that someday
If Magic Room was so good that it got banned, would Embargo spam be worth anything?
Also, would Pain Split on a low HP Pokemon be good to bring down your HP and bring theirs up?
Theoretically, Embargo could really work. But i'm not sure if it would do better then Knock Off since knock off also takes the space as an attacking move.
Pain split is a standard strategy for pokemon like vulpix and is very powerful if used properly.
Magic Room has the ability to cancel all items for five turns - Embargo only does that for one Pokemon, and the effect wears off when you switch.
I was thinking of a status disruptor set.
Linoone @ Lum Berry
EVs: 252 Spd
IVs: NaN HP / NaN Def / NaN SAtk / NaN SDef
- Belly Drum
- Thunder Wave/Substitute
Trick a Lum berry, heal the opponents status, and then use thunder wave to cripple the foe for the rest of the match.
EDIT @ post below: Thanks for the suggestion, Switcheroo is definitely better so I changed it. Additionally Substitute might be more useful if you have another thunder waver.
It might be a better idea to use Switcheroo, since the only Pokemon with access to both Imprison and Switcheroo is Smeargle, whereas Imprison + Trick is quite common. That said, that looks like one hell of a set to face down. Perhaps Substitute would be better over Thunder Wave though so you can die faster and leave the Thunder Waving to another Pokemon...
I believe a frail pokemon with limber could potentially be useful, to absorb t-waves and prevent itself from being t-waved. Or maybe (if magic bounce is common) you can run entry hazards and use magic bounce to bounce them back to yourself. Just theorymonning, as I haven't played this metagame yet.
Xatu is actually a very effective pokemon in this metagame since it can bounce back taunts and t-waves and it also has access to moves like Pain Split and Trick.
My first team actually abused xatu, I skill swapped magic bounce and then switched to aerodactyl and used Stealth Rock, And then I would just switch to 4x weak Stealth rock pokemon.
Snatch is a nice move. Snatching a substitute or a Belly Drum can be very nice.
Please ban the moves Synchronoise and Last Resort.
Synchronoise will only hit Pokémon with the same type as the user and Last Resort only if all other moves are already used.
Azurill with toxic orb, protect (to take thunder waves) splash, substitute and bubble seems like it would work
Theorymonning only, but:
Smeargle @ Choice Scarf
- attacking move
Run max speed, min physical attack. Start by using Sketch on nothing; it fails. Then Struggle to death. This achieves a self-KO in just four turns (if your HP is divisible by 4), faster than most of the other methods I've seen. The great thing about the set is that Taunting it doesn't hurt it at all, unless you're Taunted on the switch.
I don't see why last Last Resort should be banned since it is not OP and also is a niche move, after all it does force you to not use all your moves. Synchronoise is something completely different though, it is also a niche move that is situational, but sometimes it might be a bit rare for it to even hit. Definitely suspected for banning. Snatch also might see some competitive use since, unlike standard play, most moves are easily taken advantage of.
Splash is a really bad move in Suicide Cup and should never even be considered to be used.
This set is ingenious and should always be considered for a team slot, I can see this set having a few problems too, since some pokemon can kill themselves faster. this is definitely a set to prepare for.
One filler should be Trick/Switcheroo, otherwise your scarf can be stolen by Trick users
Isn't magic herb skill swap alakazam instant win, since you can just wait for your opponent to get down to one pokemon and then just make them immune to all damage? seems a bit strong imo
Skill Swap Alakazam can guarantee a win in the last turn, But it can be countered by other means, Such as KO'ing it on purpose, or suiciding a pokemon that can kill itself no matter what (Even with Magic Guard).
Alakazam is definitely one of the most powerful threats and should definitely be suspected for a ban.
Ok, Alakazam is now banned, since it is extremely over-centralising and can almost guarantee a win in the last turn, however.. we now have a less OP replacement
Reuniclus @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP
- Skill Swap
- Knock Off
- Pain Split
This set is a mini version of Alakazam, the only thing that seperates itself from it is Pain Split, it's slow and doesn't have Taunt, so I'm still not sure wether Reuniclus will be useful or not.
Umbreon can use Synchonoise as it's only attacking move which does zero damage to everything.
Not sure what else it can do but it has a good support movepool.
when will the poll end?
It would be REALLY lovely if I could just end the poll now, too bad only an Administrator can do that. You can Arcticblasts reply here
Is Fling banned? because if your own pokemon doesn't have an item it fails :I.
It isn't banned, look at all the posts (should be on page 2)
What about something like this:
Smeargle @ Mental Herb
- Perish Song
- Baton Pass
Use perish song, then roar to phase opponent, then baton pass to something on your team to kill it. Scratch is the most worthless attacking move I could think of besides rapid spin, which you don't want for obvious reasons.