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Suicune

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by TrollFreak, Jan 9, 2012.

  1. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,249
    QC Stamps- Huy|Solace
    GP Stamps- Engineer Pikachu|Komodo

    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>Facing stiff competition from all the Water-type Pokemon in VGC 2012, Suicune fills the role of a bulky team supporter. Sporting great defenses, decent Speed and Special Attack, and a pure Water typing, Suicune has only two weaknesses, making it rather difficult to KO. Combined with Suicune's wide arsenal of moves, which include Tailwind and Icy Wind, it becomes easy to see Suicune's value. However, like all Pokemon, Suicune has its flaws. Its average Special Attack can make it easy to wall. Furthermore, with Pokemon such as Zapdos so popular in the metagame, there is a limit as to what Suicune can do. However, Suicune's great bulk and supportive capabilities make it a fine Pokemon to consider when making a team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tailwind
    move 1: Tailwind
    move 2: Scald / Hydro Pump
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Protect / Calm Mind
    item: Wacan Berry / Life Orb / Sitrus Berry
    nature: Modest
    evs: 116 HP / 252 SpA / 140 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With above average bulk and a great typing, Suicune can use a Tailwind set to great effect. After Tailwind is set up, Suicune has no problem outpacing faster Pokemon such as Terrakion and Infernape. The choice of Water-type STAB is down to personal preference: Scald gives Suicune a 100% accurate move with a decent burn rate, while Life Orb Hydro Pump can OHKO Tyranitar in neutral weather, though its accuracy is shaky and its PP is low. Ice Beam is used in conjunction with Suicune's Water typing to hit Pokemon such as Garchomp, Dragonite, and Latios for super effective damage; it also hits Zapdos and Thundurus hard. Calm Mind is a nice option, allowing Suicune to use its great bulk to its advantage, making iteven harder to OHKO. Protect is also a viable option, shielding Suicune from damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The item choice depends on what Suicune needs to accomplish most. With a Wacan Berry,Zapdos's Thunder will never KO Suicune, and then it can proceed to set up Tailwind or hit Zapdos with Ice Beam. Life Orb is also a viable option, increasingSuicune's Special Attack to hit harder; with a Life Orb equipped, Ice Beam can 2HKO 140 / 0 Zapdos. Sitrus Berry, once activated, restores a nice amount of health, and can provide a Suicune a crucial extra turn in the fight.</p>

    <p>In Tailwind, the above EV spread allows Suicune to outpace Modest Ludicolo in the rain and Choice Scarf Terrakion. Special Attack is maximized, enabling Suicune to hold its own once Tailwind is set up. The remaining EVs are placed in HP to increase Suicune's survivability. Terrakion and Tyranitar make good teammates, dealing heavy damage to Zapdos and most other Electric-types who threaten to 2HKO Suicune. By summoning hail via Snow Warning, Abomasnow can cancel opposing weather and threaten Thundurus and Zapdos with a STAB Blizzard.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind + ChestoRest
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Scald / Hydro Pump
    move 3: Icy Wind
    move 4: Rest
    item: Chesto Berry
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With above average bulk and a great defensive typing, Suicune is one of the few viable Pokemon in VGC 2012 who can use a ChestoRest set. It is also one of the better Calm Mind users because of its good bulk, decent Speed and Special Attack stats, and a great offensive STAB. This set aims to set up a few Calm Minds, support the team by utilizing Icy Wind, and use Rest to recover any damage taken. The choice of Water-type STAB is, again, a personal preference. With Scald, you get consistent damage, as well as having a decent chance to burn the opponent, but Hydro Pump can be used to rip through teams after it gets enough Calm Mind boosts. Only a critical hit can bring Suicune if it has the opportunity to set up. Pressure helps Suicune by stalling out low PP moves, such as Draco Meteor.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread given allows Suicune to outpace max Speed Thundurus after an Icy Wind. Max HP EVs utilize his massive bulk. Sleep Talk can be used so Suicune can continue attacking while asleep, but Rest plus Chesto Berry is usually sufficient. Having only a Water-type attack will make it vulnerable to Storm Drain and Water Absorb users, so a Grass-type Pokemon such as Ludicolo or Amoonguss works well in checking these Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Hitmontop is an excellent partner, as Intimidate and Fake Out help Suicune set up Calm Minds. A Rage Powder or Follow Me partner is also very viable because it gives Suicune more turns to set up as well. With Zapdos and Thundurus being extremely common, Pokemon such as Abomasnow and Tyranitar also make great partners, as they can dispatch these threats. Pokemon such as Garchomp and Rotom who can outpace most Pokemon after an Icy Wind from Suicune may opt to go with bulkier spreads, not needing to invest as much in Speed thanks to Icy Wind. Finally, Pokemon with Psych Up can take advantage of all the Calm Minds Suicune accumulates, making it hit really hard as well as being ridiculously bulky.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Crowncune
    move 1: Sheer Cold
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Sleep Talk
    move 4: Scald
    item: Leftovers / Wacan Berry
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>At first glance, this looks like a gimmicky set; however, this set is really effective when played right. This set provides tremendous bulk, complementing Suicune's pure Water typing, which makes Suicune one of the few viable users of OHKO moves. With Rest and Sleep Talk, Suicune is incredibly hard to take down, as it has enough bulk to shrug off damage, as well as having plenty of chances to get lucky with Sheer Cold. Pokemon it couldn't normally deal with, such as Ludicolo, Ferrothorn, and Chansey now have a 1/3 chance to be OHKOed. Scald rounds off the set, dealing consistent damage and a higher chance to inflict burns.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread gives good overall bulk; with the given EVs, Suicune only takes about 40% from a Jolly Terrakion's Close Combat.(full stop) Furthermore, it also has a chance to survive two Discharges from a positive 252SpA Zapdos after Leftovers. As with the previous set, Terrakion and Tyranitar make good teammates, dealing heavy damage to Zapdos and Thundurus, both of whom threaten to 2HKO Suicune.</p>

    <p>It should be noted that Sheer Cold Suicune is an event from fourth generation games, and is therefore hard to obtain one with flawless IVs. For this reason, Icy Wind or Ice Beam is a decent alternative, as it retains coverage against Grass- and Dragon-type Pokemon.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Suicune doesn't get many viable options that have not been listed. ExtremeSpeed can be useful for picking off weakened Pokemon, though this is very situational, and Suicune can't afford to waste a moveslot. With Max HP EVs, Mirror Coat can KO Pokemon such as Zapdos and Thundurus, though it is very unreliable, as Suicune needs to be attacked on the special side for it to work. If you're running hail, Blizzard gives Suicune a powerful spread move that complements its Water typing, though with all the other weather changing Pokemon in VGC 2012, it's best to use the more reliable Ice Beam. Quash is an interesting move, though Suicune's average Speed means that it isn't the best user. Roar can phaze out Pokemon trying to apply Trick Room or set up, though boosting Pokemon are uncommon in doubles. Finally, Reflect is a great support move.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Suicune is very versatile and bulky, caution must be taken when trying to counter it. There are a few Pokemon that make checking Suicune easy: bulky Grass-type Pokemon, such asAbomasnow, Ludicolo, and Ferrothorn can take any attack Suicune can use, and hit it hard with their Grass STAB or use Leech Seed to pressure Suicune into switching out. Gastrodon, along with all the other Water Absorb and Storm Drain Pokemon, has no problem with Icy Wind, and Storm Drain makes it immune to Scald; however, most of them can't harm Suicune once it starts to set up Calm Minds. Zapdos, Thundurus, and other Electric-type Pokemon all threaten to 2HKO Suicune. Ninetails is a thorn in Suicune's neck, as Drought activates Chlorophyll, which means that Pokemon such as Venusaur and Sawsbuck now outpace and can 2HKO; it also weakens Suicune's Water STAB. Blissey and Chansey can take any attack Suicune can use and proceed to use Toxic, making Suicune easier to KO. However, the Crowncune and Calm Mind variants can both use Rest to shrug off Toxic, and then use Sheer Cold or set up, respectively. Pokemon such as Sableye can use priority Taunt preventing Suicune from using Calm Mind or any of its supporting moves. Choice Scarf Pokemon, such as Rotom-W and Metagross, can use Trick to give Suicune a Choice Scarf, which renders it almost useless for the remainder of the battle.</p>

    [Dream World]
    <p>Suicune has a lot to look forward to because of its Dream World ability, Water Absorb, as well as the unreleased Snarl. Snarl is a great move, as it lowers both opponents' Special Attack; this makes Suicune remarkably difficult to take down, as it is already quite bulky. Water Absorb gives Suicune an immunity to Water-type moves, and restores 25% of its HP each time it's hit,making Calm Mind variants even harder to take down. Unfortunately, Water Absorb variants will not have access to fourth generation Move Tutor and TM moves, the most notable ones being Icy Wind and Sheer Cold.</p>
    Skelly (open)

    [​IMG]
    Suicune
    [OVERVIEW]
    - Sporting great bulk with decent Speed and Special Attack, Suicune can be a versatile supporter.
    - Mono Water typing gives it only two weaknesses further complimenting its good bulk and making it hard to KO.
    - Its average attack and can make it easy to wall, except when it carries Sheer Cold.
    - Overall good stats and Pokemon.

    [SET]
    name: Tailwind
    move 1: Tailwind
    move 2: Scald / Hydro Pump
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Protect / Calm Mind
    item: Wacan Berry / Life Orb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 116 Hp / 252 SAtk / 140 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]
    - Suicune can use Tailwind and usually has no trouble getting it up because of its bulk.
    - With Life Orb, Suicune's Hydro Pump hits hard and can KO Tyranitar in neutral weather.
    - Scald chance of burn is incredibly helpful.
    - After wards, Suicune can use Icy Wind to lower opposing Tailwind teams speed.
    - Calm Mind up when you have the chance to make Suicune to raise suicunes Special Attack and Defense.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    - Ev spread allows Suicune to out speed Modest Ludicolo and Scarf Thundurus in Tailwind. The rest are put into Special Attack then Hp.
    - As with the previous set, Terrakion and Tyranitar make good teammates dealing heavy damage to Zapdos and most other Electric-types who threaten to 2HKO suicune.
    - By summoning up hail abomasnow can cancel opposing weather and threatening Thundurus and Zapdos.

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Icy Wind
    move 4: Rest
    item: Chesto Berry
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 Hp / 140 Def / 116 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    - Suicune is one of the better Calm Minders because of its good bulk, decent Speed, Special Attack, and great Stab.
    - Set aims to attempt a sweep while also supporting the team with Icy Wind Speed drops and the occasional burn from Scald.
    - Once it accumulates enough Calm Minds, usually only a crit can bring down Suicune.
    - Pressure further helps out the set by stalling out low PP moves.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    - EVs allow it to out speed max speed Thundurus after an Icy Wind and the rest are put into Hp then Defense.
    - Sleep Talk will allow Suicune to continue attacking while asleep, but Rest plus Chest Berry is usually sufficient enough, Mono water will make it vulnerable to Storm Drain and Water Absorb users, and Icy Wind is extremely helpful anyways.
    - Hitmontop is an excellent partner with Intimidate and Fake Out being excellent assets to Suicune stating up.
    - A Rage Powder or Follow Me is usually helpful giving Suicune more turns to set up.
    - With Zapdos being extremely common, Pokemon such as Abomasnow, Tyranitar, and other Pokemon that can dispatch of Zapdos are helpful.
    - Pokemon like Garchomp and Rotom who can out speed most Pokemon after an Icy Wind from Suicune may opt to go with bulkier spreads.
    - A Pokemon with Psych Up can take advantage of the all the Calm Minds Suicune accumulates.

    [SET]
    name: Crowncune
    move 1: Sheer Cold
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Sleep Talk
    move 4: Scald
    item: Leftovers / Wacan Berry
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 252 Hp / 196 Def / 60 SDef

    [SET COMMENTS]
    - Suicune is probably one if not the best Sheer Cold users because of its stats and Mono Water typing.
    - With Rest and Sleep Talk, Suicune is incredibly hard to take down and has plenty of chances to get lucky with Sheer Cold.
    - Pokemon it couldn't normally deal with such as Ludicolo, Ferrothron, and Chansey now have roughly a 1/3 of a chance to be 1HKOed.
    - Scald occasional burn is helpful and can score some 2HKOs/KOs on certain pokemon.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    - Ev spread gives good overall bulk taking about 40% max damage from Close Combat from a Jolly Terrakion while also surviving 2 Discharges from a Max Special Attack Zapdos almost every time after Leftovers.
    - As with the previous set, Terrakion and Tyranitar make good teammates dealing heavy damage to zapdos and most other Electric-types who threaten to 2HKO suicune.


    [OTHER OPTIONS]
    - Extreme Speed can be useful for picking off weakened Pokemon.
    - With max Hp, Mirror Coat will pretty much KO anything that does over 40% to Suiucne
    - If your running Hail, Blizzard gives Suicune a powerful field attack.
    - Quash is an interesting move but Suicune's average speed probably doesn't make it the best user.
    - Roar can phaze out Pokemon trying set up TR or stat up.
    - Reflect is a great support move.

    [COUNTERS]
    - Bulky grass types like Abomasnow, Ludicolo and Ferrothorn wall suicune all day, can hit it hard with their Grass STABs or use Leech Seed to pressure Suicune to switch out, or give up a tenth of its health each turn.
    - Gastrodon has no problem with Icy Wind and Storm Drain makes it immune to Scald along with other water Absorb and Storm Drain users, but most of them can't harm Suicune once it starts to Calm Mind.
    - Zapdos, Thundurus, and other Electric-types threaten to 2HKO Suicune.
    - Ninetails is annoying summoning eternal Sunlight activating Chlorophyll and weakening Suicunes STAB.
    - Most specially defensive Pokemon can stay in against Suicune's Modest Special Attack.
    - Anything with Taunt can prevent Suicune from using Calm Mind or any of its supporting moves.
    - Be wary of Trick users as being locked into a move will limit Suicune's usability.

    [DREAM WORLD]
    Suicune has a lot to look forward to because of its Dream World ability Water Absorb and the unreleased Snarl. Snarl is a great move lowering both opponents Special Attack, Suicune is already hard enough to take down without both of your opponents’ Special Attack being lowered every turn. Water Absorb giving it an immunity and restoring 25% of its heath each time its hit by Surf or any Water-type attack will make the Calm Mind set even harder to take down. Unfortunately, Water Absorb variants will not have access to 4th gen move tutors and TMs, most notable being Icy Wind and Sheer Cold.
  2. sandman

    sandman Bum bum bum bum
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,123
    On the Chesto Rest set, I'm kind've Meh on the Hydro Pump slash but I really think Ice Beam should be removed since one of the main points of the set is to support with Icy Wind.

    EDIT: There are no Special Defense EVs ether, only HP, Speed, and Defense.

    Otherwise looking good.
  3. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,249
    Ok then, i'll make QC talk this over, but imo its nice alternatives, as both Ice Beam and Hydro Pump can be used to hit harder after the Calm Minds

    EDIT, i'll remove Ice Beam, after looking over the Skelly carefully, it makes sense, Hydro Pump is still a nice option for more power, so i'll leave it in.

    And sorry, it looked like Special Defense because your skelly had it as Spd

    With That, this is ready for GP
  4. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,592
    ok I'll do this FINALLY DONE

    add remove
    other (comments)


    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>With all of the Water-type Pokemon in VGC 2012, Suicune fills the role of a bulky Pokemon that can easily support a team well. Sporting great bulk with decent Speed and Special Attack, as well as being a mono Water-type gives it only two weaknesses further complimenting its good bulk which makes it hard to outright KO Suicune has only two weaknesses, a result of its pure Water typing, making it rather difficult to be KOed. Combine this with Suicune's arsenal of moves, such as Tailwind and Icy Wind, and its easy to see why Suicune is this good When these attributes are combined with Suicune's wide arsenal of moves, including Tailwind and Icy Wind, it becomes easy to see why Suicune is very good. However, Suicune has it its flaws;—(emdash)it's its average Special Attack can make it easy to wall. Furthermore, with Pokemon such as Zapdos so popular in the metagame, there is a limit as to what Suicune can do. However, Suicune's great bulk and versatile supportive capabilities make it a fine Pokemon to consider when making a team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tailwind
    move 1: Tailwind
    move 2: Scald / Hydro Pump
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Protect / Calm Mind
    item: Wacan Berry / Life Orb / Sitrus Berry
    nature: Modest
    evs: 116 HP / 252 SpA / 140 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With above average bulk and a great typing, Suicune can use a Tailwind set to great effect. After Tailwind is set up, Suicune has no problem outpacing faster Pokemon such as Terrakion and Infernape. The choice of Water-type STAB is a personal preference. With Scald, Suicune has a 100% accurate move that can also burn. However, Life Orb Hydro Pump, with a Life Orb, can OHKO Tyranitar in neutral weather, though it does have shaky accuracy and low PP. Ice Beam is used in conjunction with Suicune's Water typing to hit Pokemon such as Garchomp, Dragonite, and Latios for super-effective super effective damage; it also hits Zapdos and Thundurus hard as well. Calm Mind is a nice option, allowing Suicune to use it's its great bulk to it's its advantage, making Suicune even harder to OHKO. Protect is also a viable option, protecting Suicune from damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The Choice of item is up to item choice depends on what Suicune needs to accomplish. With a Wacan Berry, it can take a Zapdos's Thunder, and then proceed to set up a Tailwind or hit it with Ice Beam. A Life Orb is also a viable option, using Suicune's Special Attack EVs to hit harder, as an Ice Beam can then 2HKO 140 / 0 Zapdos. Sitrus Berry, once activated, allows Suicune to gain a nice amount of health, and therefore can work rather well with Suicune.</p>

    <p>The EV spread allows Suicune to outpace Modest Ludicolo and Choice Scarf Terrakion in Tailwind. Max Special Attack are used to make Suicune hold it's own once Tailwind is set up Special Attack is maximized, enabling Suicune to hold its own once Tailwind is set up. The remaining EVs are used in HP to increase Suicune's survivability. Terrakion and Tyranitar make good teammates,(comma) dealing heavy damage to Zapdos and most other Electric-types who threaten to 2HKO Suicune. By summoning up Hail hail via Snow Warning, Abomasnow can cancel opposing weather and threaten Thundurus and Zapdos with a STAB Blizzard.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind + ChestoRest
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Scald / Hydro Pump
    move 3: Icy Wind
    move 4: Rest
    item: Chesto Berry
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With above average bulk and a great defensive typing, Suicune is one of the few viable Pokemon in VGC 2012 who can use a ChestoRest set. It is also one of the better Calm Minders users because of its good bulk, decent Speed and Special Attack stats, as well as a great offensive STAB. This set aims to set up a few Calm Minds, support the team by utilizing Icy Wind, and then use Rest to recover any damage done to Suicune during the battle, eventually wearing the opposition down, making which makes victory easier. The choice of Water-type STAB is again,(comma) a personal preference. With Scald, you get consistent damage, as well as having a decent chance to burn the opponent. Hydro Pump can be used to rip through teams after it gets enough Calm Minds. After Suicune accumulates enough Calm Minds, only a critical hit can bring it down down Suicune. Pressure further helps out the set out by stalling out low PP moves, such as Draco Meteor.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread of this set allow given allows Suicune to outpace max Speed Thundurus after an Icy Wind. Max HP EVs are used to utilize his massive bulk, and with the Special Defense EVs, Suicune can take more advantage of the Calm Mind boosts, as well as take less damage from Giga Drains and Thunderbolts not only utilize Calm Mind to a greater effect but also take less damage from Giga Drain and Thunderbolt. Sleep Talk can be used so Suicune can continue attacking while asleep, but Rest plus Chesto Berry is usually sufficient enough. Mono water Having only a Water-type attack will make it vulnerable to Storm Drain and Water Absorb users, so a Grass-type Pokemon such as Ludicolo or Amoonguss works well in checking these Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Hitmontop is an excellent partner with Intimidate and Fake Out being excellent assets to Suicune, as they help it set setting up Calm Minds. A Rage Powder or Follow Me partner is also very viable because it usually helps giving gives Suicune more turns to set up as well. With Zapdos and Thundurus being extremely common, Pokemon such as Abomasnow and Tyranitar also make great partners, as they can dispatch these threats. Pokemon like such as Garchomp and Rotom who can outpace most Pokemon after an Icy Wind from Suicune may opt to go with bulkier spreads, as then they can take more hits. Finally, Pokemon with Psych Up can take advantage of the all the Calm Minds Suicune accumulates, making it hit really hard,(comma) as well as being ridiculously bulky.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Crowncune
    move 1: Sheer Cold
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Sleep Talk
    move 4: Scald
    item: Leftovers / Wacan Berry
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>At first glance, this looks like a gimmicky set,;(semicolon) however, this set is really effective when played right. It has This set provides tremendous bulk, complementing Suicune's pure mono Water typing, which makes Suicune one of the few viable Pokemon that can use users of OHKO moves. With Rest and Sleep Talk, Suicune is incredibly hard to take down, as it has enough bulk to shrug off damage, as well as having plenty of chances to get lucky with Sheer Cold. Pokemon it couldn't normally deal with,(comma) such as Ludicolo, Ferrothorn, and Chansey now have roughly a 1/3 of a chance to be OHKOed. Scald rounds off the set, as doing consistent damage, as well as in addition to having a chance to inflict burns to Pokemon is very useful.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread gives good overall bulk, as it takes about 40% max from Close Combat from a Jolly Terrakion while also surviving 2 two Discharges from a 252+ Zapdos almost every time after Leftovers. As with the previous set, Terrakion and Tyranitar make good teammates, dealing heavy damage to Zapdos and Thundurus, both of whom who threaten to 2HKO Suicune.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Suicune doesn't get any viable options not that have not been already listed. ExtremeSpeed can be useful for picking off weak Pokemon, though this is very situational, and Suicune can't afford to waste a moveslot. With Max HP EVs, Mirror Coat can KO Pokemon such as Zapdos and Thundurus, though it is very unreliable, as Suicune needs to be attacked by a special attack for it to work. If you're running hail, Blizzard gives Suicune a powerful spread move that compliments Suicune's Water typing, though with all the other weather changing Pokemon in VGC 2012, it's best to use the more reliable Ice Beam. Quash is an interesting move, though Suicune's average Speed means that it isn't the best user. Roar can phaze out Pokemon trying set up Trick Room or set up, though set up Pokemon are uncommon in doubles. Finally, Reflect is a great support move.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Suicune is very versatile and bulky, caution must be used while when trying to take it out. There are a few Pokemon that make checking Suicune easy; bulky Grass-type Pokemon like Abomasnow<space>, Ludicolo,(comma) and Ferrothorn take any attack Suicune can use and can hit it hard with their Grass STAB or use Leech Seed to pressure Suicune to switch into switching out. Gastrodon, along with all the other Water Absorb and Storm Drain Pokemon, has no problem with Icy Wind,(comma) and Storm Drain makes it immune to Scald along with other Water Absorb and Storm Drain users,; however, but most of them can't harm Suicune once it starts to set up Calm Minds. Zapdos, Thundurus, and other Electric-type Pokemon all threaten to 2HKO Suicune. Ninetails is a thorn in Suicune's neck, with Drough, it actives Chlorophyll, meaning as Drought activates Chlorophyll, which means that Pokemon such as Venusaur and Sawsbuck now outpace and can 2HKO,; moreover, it also weakens Suicune's Water STAB. Blissey and Chansey can both take any attack Suicune can use, and both can proceed to use Toxic,(comma) making to make Suicune easier to KO. However, the Crowncune and Calm Mind variants can both use Rest to shrug of Toxic, and then proceed to use Sheer Cold or set up Calm Minds, respectably respectively. Pokemon such as Sableye can use its priority Taunt it gets via Pranster, which can prevent preventing Suicune from using Calm Mind or any of its supporting moves. Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Rotom-W and Metagross can just use Trick to give Suicune a Choice Scarf, which renders it useless for the remainder of the battle.</p>

    [Dream World]
    <p>Suicune has a lot to look forward to because of its Dream World ability, Water Absorb, as well as the unreleased Snarl. Snarl is a great move, as it lowers lowering both opponents'(apos.) Special Attack,; this makes Suicune remarkably difficult to take down, as it is already quite bulky. is already hard enough to take down without both of your opponents's Pokemon Special Attack being lowered every turn. Water Absorb gives Suicune an immunity and restores its 25% of its HP Suicune's Health by 25% of its heath each time its it's hit by Surf or any Water-type attack, which makes will make Calm Mind variants even harder to take down. Unfortunately, Water Absorb variants will not have access to 4th gen move tutors and TMs, most notable being Icy Wind, Tailwind and Sheer Cold. fourth generation Move Tutor and TM moves, the most notable ones being Icy Wind, Tailwind, and Sheer Cold.</p>


    Apologies for deleting/adding the same things; it's much easier to reword sentences in phrases instead of going word by word.

    [​IMG]
    GP [1/2]
  5. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,249
    Thanks, ready for 2nd GP Check
  6. eriXtone

    eriXtone

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    48
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    Amateur GP Check (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>With all of the Water-type Pokemon in VGC 2012, Suicune fills the role of a bulky Pokemon that can easily bulky support a team role well. Sporting great defenses bulk with decent Speed and Special Attack, Suicune has only two weaknesses, a result of its pure Water typing, making it rather difficult to be KOed. When these attributes are combined with Suicune's wide arsenal of moves, including Tailwind and Icy Wind, it becomes easy to see Suicune's value why Suicune is very good. However, Suicune has its flaws. Its average Special Attack can make it easy to wall. Furthermore, with Pokemon such as Zapdos so popular in the metagame, there is a limit as to what Suicune can do. However, Suicune's great bulk and versatile supportive capabilities make it a fine Pokemon to consider when making a team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tailwind
    move 1: Tailwind
    move 2: Scald / Hydro Pump
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Protect / Calm Mind
    item: Wacan Berry / Life Orb / Sitrus Berry
    nature: Modest
    evs: 116 HP / 252 SpA / 140 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With above average bulk and a great typing, Suicune can use a Tailwind set to great effect. After Tailwind is set up, Suicune has no problem outpacing faster Pokemon such as Terrakion and Infernape. The choice of Water-type STAB is a personal preference. With Scald, Suicune has a 100% accurate move that can also burn. However, Life Orb Hydro Pump(Space) can OHKO Tyranitar in neutral weather, though it does have shaky accuracy and low PP. Ice Beam is used in conjunction with Suicune's Water typing to hit Pokemon such as Garchomp, Dragonite, and Latios for super effective damage; it also hits Zapdos and Thundurus hard as well. Calm Mind is a nice option, allowing Suicune to use its great bulk to its advantage, making Suicune even harder to OHKO. Protect is also a viable option, protecting Suicune from damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The item choice depends on what Suicune needs to accomplish. With a Wacan Berry, it can take a Zapdos's Thunder, and then proceed to set up a Tailwind or hit it with Ice Beam. A Life Orb is also a viable option, using Suicune's Special Attack EVs to hit harder, as Ice Beam can then 2HKO 140 / 0 Zapdos. Sitrus Berry, once activated, allows Suicune to gain a nice amount of health, and therefore can work rather well.</p>

    <p>The EV spread allows Suicune to outpace Modest Ludicolo and Choice Scarf Terrakion in Tailwind. Special Attack is maximized, enabling Suicune to hold its own once Tailwind is set up. The remaining EVs are used in HP to increase Suicune's survivability. Terrakion and Tyranitar make good teammates, dealing heavy damage to Zapdos and most other Electric-types who threaten to 2HKO Suicune. By summoning hail via Snow Warning, Abomasnow can cancel opposing weather and threaten Thundurus and Zapdos with a STAB Blizzard.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind + ChestoRest
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Scald / Hydro Pump
    move 3: Icy Wind
    move 4: Rest
    item: Chesto Berry
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With above average bulk and a great defensive typing, Suicune is one of the few viable Pokemon in VGC 2012 who can use a ChestoRest set. It is also one of the better Calm Mind(Space)users because of its good bulk, decent Speed and Special Attack stats, as well as a great offensive STAB. This set aims to set up a few Calm Minds, support the team by utilizing Icy Wind, and then use Rest to recover any damage done to Suicune during the battle, wearing the opposition down, making which makes victory easier. The choice of Water-type STAB is again, a personal preference. With Scald, you get consistent damage, as well as having a decent chance to burn the opponent. Hydro Pump can be used to rip through teams after it gets enough Calm Minds. After Suicune accumulates enough Calm Minds, only a critical hit can bring it down. Pressure helps the set out by stalling out low PP moves, such as Draco Meteor.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread given allows Suicune to outpace max Speed Thundurus after an Icy Wind. Max HP EVs are used to utilize his massive bulk, and with the Special Defense EVs, Suicune can not only utilize Calm Mind to a greater effect but also take less damage from Giga Drain and Thunderbolt. Sleep Talk can be used so Suicune can continue attacking while asleep, but Rest plus Chesto Berry is usually sufficient. Having only a Water-type attack will make it vulnerable to Storm Drain and Water Absorb users, so a Grass-type Pokemon such as Ludicolo or Amoonguss works well in checking these Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Hitmontop is an excellent partner with Intimidate and Fake Out being excellent assets to Suicune, as they help it set up Calm Minds. A Rage Powder or Follow Me partner is also very viable because it usually gives Suicune more turns to set up as well. With Zapdos and Thundurus being extremely common, Pokemon such as Abomasnow and Tyranitar also make great partners, as they can dispatch these threats. Pokemon such as Garchomp and Rotom who can outpace most Pokemon after an Icy Wind from Suicune may opt to go with bulkier spreads, as then they can take more hits. Finally, Pokemon with Psych Up can take advantage of all the Calm Minds Suicune accumulates, making it hit really hard as well as being ridiculously bulky.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Crowncune
    move 1: Sheer Cold
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Sleep Talk
    move 4: Scald
    item: Leftovers / Wacan Berry
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>At first glance, this looks like a gimmicky set; however, this set is really effective when played right. This set provides tremendous bulk, complementing Suicune's pure Water typing, which makes Suicune one of the few viable users of OHKO moves. With Rest and Sleep Talk, Suicune is incredibly hard to take down, as it has enough bulk to shrug off damage, as well as having plenty of chances to get lucky with Sheer Cold. Pokemon it couldn't normally deal with, such as Ludicolo, Ferrothorn, and Chansey now have roughly a 1/3 chance to be OHKOed. Scald rounds off the set, as doing consistent damage(space) and having a chance to inflict burns to Pokemon is very useful.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread gives good overall bulk, as it takes about 40% max via from Close Combat from a Jolly Terrakion while also surviving two Discharges from a 252+ Zapdos almost every time after Leftovers. As with the previous set, Terrakion and Tyranitar make good teammates, dealing heavy damage to Zapdos and Thundurus, both of whom threaten to 2HKO Suicune.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Suicune doesn't get any viable options that have not been already listed. ExtremeSpeed can be useful for picking off weak Pokemon, though this is very situational, and Suicune can't afford to waste a moveslot. With Max HP EVs, Mirror Coat can KO Pokemon such as Zapdos and Thundurus, though it is very unreliable, as Suicune needs to be attacked by a special attack for it to work. If you're running hail, Blizzard gives Suicune a powerful spread move that complements compliments Suicune's Water typing, though with all the other weather changing Pokemon in VGC 2012, it's best to use the more reliable Ice Beam. Quash is an interesting move, though Suicune's average Speed means that it isn't the best user. Roar can phaze out Pokemon trying set up Trick Room or set up, though set up Pokemon are uncommon in doubles. Finally, Reflect is a great support move.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Suicune is very versatile and bulky, caution must be used when trying to take it out. There are a few Pokemon that make checking Suicune easy; bulky Grass-type Pokemon like Abomasnow, Ludicolo, and Ferrothorn take any attack Suicune can use and hit it hard with their Grass STAB or use Leech Seed to pressure Suicune into switching out. Gastrodon, along with all the other Water Absorb and Storm Drain Pokemon, have has no problem with Icy Wind, and Storm Drain makes it immune to Scald ; however, most of them can't harm Suicune once it starts to set up Calm Minds. Zapdos, Thundurus, and other Electric-type Pokemon all threaten to 2HKO Suicune. Ninetails is a thorn in Suicune's neck (Pain in its neck, thorn in its side?), as Drought activates Chlorophyll, which means that Pokemon such as Venusaur and Sawsbuck now outpace and can 2HKO; moreover, it also weakens Suicune's Water STAB. Blissey and Chansey can take any attack Suicune can use and proceed to use Toxic, making Suicune easier to KO. However, the Crowncune and Calm Mind variants can both use Rest to shrug off Toxic, and then(Space)use Sheer Cold or set up Calm Minds, respectively. Pokemon such as Sableye can use priority Taunt preventing Suicune from using Calm Mind or any of its supporting moves. Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Rotom-W and Metagross can just use Trick to give Suicune a Choice Scarf, which renders it useless for the remainder of the battle.</p>

    [Dream World]
    <p>Suicune has a lot to look forward to because of its Dream World ability, Water Absorb, as well as the unreleased Snarl. Snarl is a great move, as it lowers(space) both opponents' Special Attack; this makes Suicune remarkably difficult to take down, as it is already quite bulky. Water Absorb gives Suicune an immunity and restores its 25% of its HP each time it's hit by Surf or any Water-type attack, which makes Calm Mind variants even harder to take down. Unfortunately, Water Absorb variants will not have access to fourth generation Move Tutor and TM moves, the most notable ones being Icy Wind, Tailwind, and Sheer Cold.</p>
  7. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Made some of the chanages, also remembered that Sheer Cold Suicune is an event Pokemon, and made a refference about it
  8. sandman

    sandman Bum bum bum bum
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    In Dreamworld section, Tailwind is a level up move.
  9. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Whoops, forgot to change it after i fixed the ev issue, fixed

    and yeam i thoought it was a tutor move in 4th Gen just like most other Pokemon, fixed
  10. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor

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    Amateur GP check
    Removals in RED, changes in BLUE, comments in BOLD

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    <p>With all of the Water-type Pokemon in VGC 2012, Suicune fills the role of a bulky Pokemon that can easily support a team well. Sporting great defenses with decent Speed and Special Attack, Suicune has only two weaknesses, a result of its pure Water typing, making it rather difficult to be KOed. When these attributes are combined with Suicune's wide arsenal of moves, including Tailwind and Icy Wind, it becomes easy to see Suicune's value. However, Suicune has its flaws. Its average Special Attack can make it easy to wall. Furthermore, With Pokemon such as Zapdos so popular in the metagame, there is a limit as to what Suicune can do. However, Suicune's great bulk and versatile supportive capabilities make it a fine Pokemon to consider when making a team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tailwind
    move 1: Tailwind
    move 2: Scald / Hydro Pump
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Protect / Calm Mind
    item: Wacan Berry / Life Orb / Sitrus Berry
    nature: Modest
    evs: 116 HP / 252 SpA / 140 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With above average bulk and a great typing, Suicune can use a Tailwind set to great effect. After Tailwind is set up, Suicune has no problem outpacing faster Pokemon such as Terrakion and Infernape. The choice of Water-type STAB is a personal preference. With Scald, Suicune has a 100% accurate move that can also burn. However, Life Orb Hydro Pump can OHKO Tyranitar in neutral weather, though it does have shaky accuracy and low PP. Ice Beam is used in conjunction with Suicune's Water typing to hit Pokemon such as Garchomp, Dragonite, and Latios for super effective damage; it also hits Zapdos and Thundurus hard. Calm Mind is a nice option, allowing Suicune to use its great bulk to its advantage, making Suicune even harder to OHKO. Protect is also a viable option, shielding protecting Suicune from damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The item choice depends on what Suicune needs to accomplish. With a Wacan Berry, it can take a Zapdos's Thunder, and then proceed to set up a Tailwind or hit it with Ice Beam. Life Orb is also a viable option, using Suicune's Special Attack EVs to hit harder, as Ice Beam can then 2HKO 140 /0 Zapdos. Sitrus Berry, once activated, allows Suicune to gain a nice amount of health, and can provide a Suicune a crucial extra turn in the fight. therefore can work rather well.</p>

    <p>In tailwind, (I'm not sure if this is capitalized. We're not talking about the move, but the "field effect" could be a smogon proper noun) the above EV spread allows Suicune to outpace Modest Ludicolo and Choice Scarf Terrakion in Tailwind. Special Attack is maximized, enabling Suicune to hold its own once Tailwind is set up. The remaining EVs are used in HP to increase Suicune's survivability. Terrakion and Tyranitar make good teammates, dealing heavy damage to Zapdos and most other Electric-types who threaten to 2HKO Suicune. By summoning hail via Snow Warning, Abomasnow can cancel opposing weather and threaten Thundurus and Zapdos with a STAB Blizzard.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind + ChestoRest
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Scald / Hydro Pump
    move 3: Icy Wind
    move 4: Rest
    item: Chesto Berry
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With above average bulk and a great defensive typing, Suicune is one of the few viable Pokemon in VGC 2012 who can use a ChestoRest set. It is also one of the better Calm Mind users because of its good bulk, decent Speed and Special Attack stats, as well as and a great offensive STAB. This set aims to set up a few Calm Minds, support the team by utilizing Icy Wind, and then use Rest to recover any damage done to Suicune during the battle. This wears the opposition down, making victory easier. The choice of Water-type STAB is again, a personal preference. With Scald, you get consistent damage, as well as having a decent chance to burn the opponent, but Hydro Pump can be used to rip through teams after it gets enough Calm Minds. After Suicune accumulates enough Calm Minds, Only a critical hit can bring Suicune down if it's fully set up. Pressure helps Suicune the set by stalling out low PP moves, such as Draco Meteor.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread given allows Suicune to outpace max Speed Thundurus after an Icy Wind. Max HP EVs are used to utilize his massive bulk. Sleep Talk can be used so Suicune can continue attacking while asleep, but Rest plus Chesto Berry is usually sufficient. Having only a Water-type attack will make it vulnerable to Storm Drain and Water Absorb users, so a Grass-type Pokemon such as Ludicolo or Amoonguss works well in checking these Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Hitmontop is an excellent partner, with as Intimidate and Fake Out being are excellent assets to Suicune, as because they help it set up Calm Minds. A Rage Powder or Follow Me partner is also very viable because it usually gives Suicune more turns to set up as well. With Zapdos and Thundurus being extremely common, Pokemon such as Abomasnow and Tyranitar also make great partners, as they can dispatch these threats. Pokemon such as Garchomp and Rotom who can outpace most Pokemon after an Icy Wind from Suicune may opt to go with bulkier spreads, not needing to invest as much in Speed thanks to Tailwind as then they can take more hits. Finally, Pokemon with Psych Up can take advantage of all the Calm Minds Suicune accumulates, making it hit really hard as well as being ridiculously bulky.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Crowncune
    move 1: Sheer Cold
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Sleep Talk
    move 4: Scald
    item: Leftovers / Wacan Berry
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>At first glance, this looks like a gimmicky set; however, this set is really effective when played right. This set provides tremendous bulk, complementing Suicune's pure Water typing, which makes Suicune one of the few viable users of OHKO moves. With Rest and Sleep Talk, Suicune is incredibly hard to take down, as it has enough bulk to shrug off damage, as well as having plenty of chances to get lucky with Sheer Cold. Pokemon it couldn't normally deal with, such as Ludicolo, Ferrothorn, and Chansey now have roughly a 1/3 chance to be OHKOed. Scald rounds off the set, as doing consistent damage and having a chance to inflict burns is very useful.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread gives good overall bulk, as it takes about 40% max from a Jolly Terrakion's Close Combat while also has a chance to survive two Discharges from a 252+ Zapdos almost every time after Leftovers. As with the previous set, a Terrakion of your own and Tyranitar make good teammates, dealing heavy damage to Zapdos and Thundurus, both of whom threaten to 2HKO Suicune.</p>

    <p>It is also important to remember that a Sheer Cold Suicune is an event from fourth generation games, and is therefore hard to obtain one with new flawless IVs. Therefore, Icy Wind or Ice Beam is a decent alternative, as it retains coverage against Grass- and Dragon-type Pokemon.</p>


    [Other Options]

    <p>Suicune doesn't get many viable options that have not been listed. ExtremeSpeed can be useful for picking off weak Pokemon, though this is very situational, and Suicune can't afford to waste a moveslot. With Max HP EVs, Mirror Coat can KO Pokemon such as Zapdos and Thundurus, though it is very unreliable, as Suicune needs to be attacked on the special side for it to work. If you're running hail, Blizzard gives Suicune a powerful spread move that complements Suicune's Water typing, though with all the other weather changing Pokemon in VGC 2012, it's best to use the more reliable Ice Beam. Quash is an interesting move, though Suicune's average Speed means that it isn't the best user. Roar can phaze out Pokemon trying to apply Trick Room or set up, though boosting Pokemon are uncommon in doubles. Finally, Reflect is a great support move.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As Suicune is very versatile and bulky, caution must be used when trying to take it out. There are a few Pokemon that make checking Suicune easy; bulky Grass-type Pokemon like Abomasnow, Ludicolo, and Ferrothorn take any attack Suicune can use and hit it hard with their Grass STAB or use Leech Seed to pressure Suicune into switching out. Gastrodon, along with all the other Water Absorb and Storm Drain Pokemon, has no problem with Icy Wind, and Storm Drain makes it immune to Scald; however, most of them can't harm Suicune once it starts to set up Calm Minds. Zapdos, Thundurus, and other Electric-type Pokemon all threaten to 2HKO Suicune. Ninetails is a thorn in Suicune's neck, as Drought activates Chlorophyll, which means that Pokemon such as Venusaur and Sawsbuck now outpace and can 2HKO; moreover, it also weakens Suicune's Water STAB. Blissey and Chansey can take any attack Suicune can use and proceed to use Toxic, making Suicune easier to KO. However, the Crowncune and Calm Mind variants can both use Rest to shrug off Toxic, and then use Sheer Cold or set up Calm Minds, respectively. Pokemon such as Sableye can use priority Taunt preventing Suicune from using Calm Mind or any of its supporting moves. Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Rotom-W and Metagross can just use Trick to give Suicune a Choice Scarf, which renders it (almost) useless for the remainder of the battle.</p>

    [Dream World]
    <p>Suicune has a lot to look forward to because of its Dream World ability, Water Absorb, as well as the unreleased Snarl. Snarl is a great move, as it lowers both opponents' Special Attack; this makes Suicune remarkably difficult to take down, as it is already quite bulky. Water Absorb gives Suicune an immunity and restores its 25% of its HP each time it's hit by Surf or any Water-type attack, which makes Calm Mind variants even harder to take down. Unfortunately, Water Absorb variants will not have access to fourth generation Move Tutor and TM moves, the most notable ones being Icy Wind and Sheer Cold.</p>
  11. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Implemented a few of the changes, thanks
  12. Komodo

    Komodo I have a custom title?
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Red is remove, Blue is edit.
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  13. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Thanks Komodo, this is now done
  14. eriXtone

    eriXtone

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
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    Before this is posted, the following should be fixed:

    It should be noted that Sheer Cold Suicune is an event from fourth generation games, and is therefore hard to obtain one with flawless IVs. For this reason, Icy Wind or Ice Beam are is a decent alternatives, as it retains coverage against Grass- and Dragon-type Pokemon.
  15. sandman

    sandman Bum bum bum bum
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Besides the fact that currently you can only get suicune in 3rd and 4th gen, Wondercard abuse is fairly easy and many trade threads have the flawless movie trio, Sheer Cold is the name of the set and probably shouldn't be getting slashed for other options.

  16. Solace

    Solace darling i'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    uploaded

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