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Summer Freedom IV Preliminary List

Discussion in 'Tournaments' started by Nate, Mar 21, 2006.

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  1. Nate

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 20, 2004
    A little background, a little explanation, a little looking forward is in order. The Summer Freedom tournaments are tournaments of the UU metagame, held once annually when I get out of school. The tournament is double elimination, with an average round length of one week. With a 64 person tournament, this means that the tournament lasts the entirety of the summer. Double elimination allows slightly unusual signup numbers, so I'm not holding the tournament to a specific size yet. I am most likely going to spend the month of june in China again. Therefore, the first round, which is ridiculously huge, will be held while I am away. Unless this thing gets ridiculously big, it should be over by the end of summer.

    Team Rules:
    -5 UU
    -1 Borderline

    You may choose to have all 6 of your pokemon be from the UU category if you so choose.

    Battle Rules:
    -Allow Spectators (a must)
    -PP Ups
    -Sleep Clause
    -Freeze Clause
    -Battle Timeout
    -Self-KO Clause

    Here is my ideal list. I like to overclause stuff, most people who are playing don't. The list is not up for voting yet, simply nominate a pokemon if you think it should be changed. I don't want ten million "seconded" posts, simply suggest pokemon if you think their status should be changed. Actual voting will be open later.

    3. Venusaur – BL
    6. Charizard - BL
    9. Blastoise - UU
    12. Butterfree - UU
    15. Beedrill - UU
    18. Pidgeot - UU
    20. Raticate - UU
    22. Fearow - UU
    24. Arbok - UU
    26. Raichu - UU
    28. Sandslash - UU
    31. Nidoqueen - UU
    34. Nidoking - UU
    36. Clefable - UU
    38. Ninetales - UU
    40. Wigglytuff - UU
    45. Vileplume - UU
    47. Parasect - UU
    49. Venomoth - UU
    51. Dugtrio - OU
    53. Persian - UU
    55. Golduck - UU
    57. Primeape - UU
    59. Arcanine - BL
    62. Poliwrath - UU
    65. Alakazam - OU
    68. Machamp - UU
    71. Victreebell - UU
    73. Tentacruel - UU
    76. Golem - BL
    78. Rapidash - UU
    80. Slowbro - BL
    82. Magneton - BL
    83. Farfectch'd - UU
    85. Dodrio - OU
    87. Dewgong - UU
    89. Muk - UU
    91. Cloyster - UU
    94. Gengar - OU
    97. Hypno – BL
    99. Kingler - UU
    101. Electrode - UU
    103. Exeggutor - OU
    105. Marowak - OU
    106. Hitmonlee - UU
    107. Hitmonchan - UU
    108. Lickitung - UU
    110. Weezing - OU
    112. Rhydon - BL
    113. Chansey - BL
    114. Tangela - UU
    115. Kangaskhan - UU
    119. Seaking - UU
    121. Starmie - OU
    122. Mr. Mime - OU
    123. Scyther - BL
    124. Jynx - BL
    125. Electabuzz - UU
    126. Magmar - UU
    127. Pinsir - UU
    128. Tauros - OU
    130. Gyarados - OU
    131. Lapras - OU
    132. Ditto - UU
    134. Vaporeon - OU
    135. Jolteon - OU
    136. Flareon - UU
    139. Omaster - UU
    141. Kabutops - UU
    142. Aerodactyl - OU
    143. Snorlax - OU
    144. Articuno - OU
    145. Zapdos - OU
    146. Moltres - OU
    149. Dragonite - OU
    150. Mewtwo - OU
    151. Mew - OU
    154. Meganium - UU
    157. Typhlosion - BL
    160. Feraligatr - UU
    162. Furret - UU
    164. Noctowl - UU
    166. Ledian - UU
    168. Ariados - UU
    169. Crobat - OU
    171. Lanturn - BL
    176. Togetic - UU
    178. Xatu - UU
    181. Ampharos - UU
    182. Bellossom - UU
    184. Azumarill - UU
    185. Sudowoodo- UU
    186. Politoed - UU
    189. Jumpluff - UU
    190. Aipom - UU
    192. Sunflora - UU
    193. Yanma - UU
    195. Quagsire - UU
    196. Espeon - BL
    197. Umbreon - OU
    198. Murkrow - UU
    199. Slowking - BL
    200. Misdreavus - UU
    201. Unown - UU
    202. Wobbufet - OU
    203. Girafarig - UU
    205. Forretress - BL
    206. Dunsparce - UU
    207. Gligar - BL
    208. Steelix - BL
    209. Snubbull - UU
    210. Granbull - UU
    211. qwilfish - UU
    212. Scizor - BL
    213. Shuckle - UU
    214. Heracross - OU
    215. Sneasel - UU
    217. Ursaring – BL
    219. Magargo - UU
    221. Piloswine - UU
    222. Corsola - UU
    224. Octillery - UU
    225. Delibird - UU
    226. Mantine - UU
    227. Skarmory - OU
    229. Houndoom - OU
    230. Kingdra - OU
    232. Donphan - OU
    233. Porygon2 - OU
    234. Stantler - UU
    235. Smeargle - OU
    237. Hitmontop - UU
    241. Miltank - BL
    242. Blissey - OU
    243. Raikou - OU
    244. Entei - OU
    245. Suicune - OU
    248. Tyranitar - OU
    249. Lugia - OU
    250. Ho-oh - OU
    251. Celebi - OU
    254. Sceptile - OU
    257. Blaziken - OU
    260. Swampert - OU
    262. Mightyena - UU
    264. Linoon - UU
    267. Beautifly - UU
    269. Dustox - UU
    272. Ludicolo - OU
    275. Shiftry - UU
    277. Swellow - UU
    279. Pelipper - UU
    282. Gardevoir - BL
    284. Masquerain - UU
    286. Breloom - OU
    289. Slaking - OU
    291. Ninjask - OU
    292. Shedinja - BL
    295. Exploud - UU
    297. Hariyama - UU
    299. Nosepass - UU
    301. Delcatty - UU
    302. Sableye - UU
    303. Mawile - UU
    306. Aggron - UU
    308. Medicham - OU
    310. Manectric - UU
    311. Plusle - UU
    312. Minum - UU
    313. Volbeat - UU
    314. Illumise - UU
    315. Roselia - UU
    317. Swalot - UU
    319. Sharpedo - UU
    321. Wailord - UU
    323. Camerupt - UU
    324. Torkoal - UU
    326. Grumpig - UU
    327. Spinda - UU
    330. Flygon - OU
    332. Cacturne - UU
    334. Altaria - UU
    335. Zangoose - BL
    336. Seviper - UU
    337. Lunatone - BL
    338. Solrock - UU
    340. Whiscash - UU
    342. Crawdaunt - UU
    344. Claydol – OU
    346. Cradily - BL
    348. Armaldo - BL
    350. Milotic – OU
    351. Castform - UU
    352. Kecleon - UU
    354. Banette - UU
    356. Dusclops - OU
    357. Tropius - UU
    358. Chimeco - UU
    359. Absol - UU
    360. Wynaut - UU
    362. Glalie - UU
    365. Walrein - BL
    367. Huntail - UU
    368. Gorebyss - UU
    369. Relicanth - UU
    370. Luvdisc - UU
    373. Salamence - OU
    376. Metagross - OU
    377. Regirock - OU
    378. Regice - OU
    379. Registeel - OU
    380. Latias - OU
    381. Latios - OU
    382. Kygore - OU
    383. Groudon - OU
    384. Rayquaza - OU
    385. Jirachi - OU
    386. Deoxys - OU

    Changes from last year's list:

    Hypno: UU to Borderline
    Golem: UU to Borderline
    Mr. Mime: UU to OU
    Omaster: Borderline to UU
    Dragonite: Borderline to OU
    Typhlosion: UU to Borderline
    Scizor: UU to Borderline
    Medicham: Borderline to OU
    Flygon: Borderline to OU
    Zangoose: OU to Borderline
    Walrein: OU to Borderline
    Gligar: UU to Borderline

    I am aware this is not pokerealms list. I am aware this is not smogon's list. This is my list.

    This topic is not for signups.

    About the bitching: It is expected. Please keep in mind, however, there are two factors that go into deciding whether a pokemon is UU or not:

    1) How often it is used
    2) Whether it is unsuitable for UU play

    Current suggestions:

    Arcanine: BL to UU
    Chansey: BL to OU
    Charizard: BL to OU
    Cloyster: UU to BL
    Crobat: OU to BL
    Espeon: BL to OU
    Exeggutor: BL to OU
    Forretress: BL to OU
    Gligar: BL to UU
    Gardevoir: BL to OU
    Granbull: UU to BL
    Golem: BL to UU
    Hariyama: UU to BL
    Houndoom: OU to BL
    Jumpluff: UU to BL
    Jynx: BL to OU
    Lanturn: BL to UU
    Lapras: OU to BL
    Ludicolo: OU to BL
    Lunatone: BL to UU
    Machamp: UU to BL
    Magneton: BL to OU
    Meganium: UU to BL
    Miltank: BL to OU
    Mr. Mime: OU to BL
    Omastar: UU to BL
    Pinsir: UU to BL
    Porygon2: OU to BL
    Rhydon: BL to OU
    Scyther: BL to UU
    Shedinja: BL to UU
    Slowking: BL to UU
    Steelix: BL to OU
    Swellow: UU to BL
    Ursaring: BL to OU
    Venusaur: BL to OU
    Walrein: BL to UU

    Marowak will not be changed, due to the fact that I don't want to start clausing items or moves. While marowak without thick club is indeed UU, that's a recipe for confusion. See Vineon, sandslash, SF#1.
  2. cholena

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnuswon the 1st Official Smogon Tournament

    Dec 19, 2004
    i don't agree with venusaur or charizard but i doubt anyone will agree with me
    espeon has no place in an uu tourney imo, too fast/strong (so shush jump before you even start)
    if rhydon is bl golem is uu or if golem is bl rhydon is ou
    scyther isn't bl scizor is
    if ursaring is bl machamp is too

    apart from that good list lol
  3. Raikou21

    is a Past WCoP Champion

    Oct 2, 2005
    IMO Crobat should be BL at most, as Gligar/Steelix are on most UU teams and they wall the shit out of it.
  4. gene

    gene (* ̄(エ) ̄*)
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a defending SPL Champion

    May 1, 2005
    Chansey as bl is really :[. Its stats are just a little shittier than blissey and it can wall the fuck out of all the manectrics/electabuzzes etc.

    edit: rhydon and zard for ou, cloyster and machamp for bl imo
  5. noobster

    noobster space cowboy
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnuswon the 2nd Official Smogon Tournament

    Apr 1, 2005
    Here are my suggestions. I haven't looked at the current ones yet.

  6. Raikou21

    is a Past WCoP Champion

    Oct 2, 2005
    Magneton can be UU-BL-OU, it doesn't really matter, there is no Skarm/Metagross and Magneton is completely outclassed by Amapharos/Lanturn. Only thing it has going for it IMO, is MS.
  7. noobster

    noobster space cowboy
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnuswon the 2nd Official Smogon Tournament

    Apr 1, 2005
    Magneton has the potential to be a really good normal resists considering there is no dugtrio around that can trap it. Considering how common normal cbers are in uu, it could switch in and deal a strong hit to whatever switches into it
  8. spies


    May 20, 2005
    Magneton is a decent Flying/Normal resist with a STAB Thunderbolt coming from 125 base satk (iirc), with Toxic and Sub it can wear anything that could wall it down, other than probably Grumpig which can avoid it with Sub, but you can be faster most of the time.

    EDIT: Also it could trap and kill weak Steelixes with HP Water/Fire lol
  9. Justin8649

    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Jan 26, 2005
    If you are having this tournament at smogon you should just use the Smogon Tiers. That is what most people are accustomed to using, why change it?
  10. Bookwolf


    Apr 28, 2005
    My thoughts

  11. noobster

    noobster space cowboy
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnuswon the 2nd Official Smogon Tournament

    Apr 1, 2005
    Justin, since the SF has always used one borderline, the most important part is editing the tier list specifically for this tournament. Our borderlines are used for a different purpose i guess. since regular uu rules do not allow borderlines, it has to be changed around a tidbit to fit an uu metagame where one borderline is allowed. although i do agree that the base could've been taken from our tier list.
  12. Chaasrainer


    Jan 21, 2006
    Forry should be OU IMO. It can be a bitch when it wants to with Spikes, Explosion and only one weakness.


    Dec 20, 2004
    Shedinja, BL to UU. Give that poor guy a chance, he is nice, yes, but you need to be careful as hell to play him, and UU is full of surprises. He's not on the level of other BLs.
    Omastar, UU to BL. Omastar has Normal resist and fucks things up like no other once Mantine/Quagsire are gone seeing Lanturn is BL. Plus there's still Gorebyss.
    Oh yeah, also everybody's favorite tournament is starting X)
  14. Warthog

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 20, 2004
    Shedi is a bitch and turns tides to well in UU games for me to give it a 2nd chance. Its one pokemon you're guarantteed to atleast wall 1-2 pokemon and possibly more and that is just another + on stall teams.

    I havent checked over the entire list yet but Im agreeing with the few statements saying that Ursaring and Champ should be paired together where ever they go, same with Hariyama because he isnt far behind. Ill check over more of the list later and 2nd or add more to possible changes.
  15. Glalie

    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 19, 2004
  16. Jackal

    Jackal I'm not retarded I'm Canadian it's different
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 20, 2004
    HI Nate ilu :*

    I haven't looked at what others said!

  17. Warthog

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 20, 2004
    a few things Id like to add.. if we put Gligar BL then were limiting ourselves with Pinsir counters. So if Gligar goes BL then he should too because there is no way to counter this without sacrificing a pokemon before hand. Steelix on the other hand wont be missed too much because Rhydon and Golem exist, so Fearow or Crobat wont have a field day.. yet. However Steelix being immune to most electrics is a good arguement, most got smart and start packing Fire Punch.

    All Im saying is before we ban certian pokemon lets check to see if its necessary to have it or not. We dont want one pokemon that supposivly goes away for another to rise because the other isnt there to push it around anymore.
  18. Veteran In Love

    Veteran In Love
    is a Past WCoP Championis the Smogon Tour Season 3 Championis the Smogon Tour Season 1 Champion

    Dec 20, 2004
    That's kinda what they're doing with Slowbro and Cloyster..trying to remove counters for Gligar that own it stone cold because most if not all teams are too damn overreliant on Gligar >_>
  19. Nate

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 20, 2004
    Gligar is far more of a threat than pinsir. Though pinsir was fun to use in 200. Anyway, gligar is easily on 80% of the UU teams I see right now, so I'm strongly supportive of gligar in the BL category.

    EDIT: I've been going over some possible pairing setups, and I'm going to have the general format be based on a power of 2 system. The winner's bracket will have every other round be a bye round, so it is beneficial to remain in the winner's bracket. The more you win, the less battles you have to play.

    So say there are 32 people in the winner's bracket, and 32 in the loser's.

    W | L
    32 | 32
    16 | 32
    16 | 16
    8 | 16
    8 | 8
    4 | 8
    4 | 4
    2 | 4
    2 | 2
    1 | 2
    1 | 1

    This would be the simplest way to organize it, but if signups dont approach a handy power of 2 the brackets can be handled other ways.
  20. goofball

    is a Past WCoP Championwon the 4th Official Smogon Tournamentis the Smogon Tour Season 4 Champion

    Dec 19, 2004
    As you can see I chosen to disregard everybody else list mainly because they all suck and I am the best lol :P
  21. Somebody


    Dec 20, 2004
    I haven't read what everyone else posted

    3. Venusaur – BL OU
    6. Charizard - BL OU, especially if Wynaut is allowed...
    68. Machamp - UU How is this UU when Ursaring is BL?
    76. Golem - BL UU
    82. Magneton - BL OU
    91. Cloyster - UU Some people will want this for BL. I'm fine with either.
    97. Hypno – BL Meh, I'd like this for UU but people will complain.
    112. Rhydon - BL OU
    113. Chansey - BL OU :(
    123. Scyther - BL UU
    131. Lapras - OU What? Should be UU imo, so at least make it BL.
    139. Omastar - UU I don't care about this one, but some people will want B:.
    169. Crobat - OU BL if Steelix is allowed.
    171. Lanturn - BL Same deal with Lapras. I say UU but whatever
    189. Jumpluff - UU BL
    196. Espeon - BL OU
    207. Gligar - BL Meh, UU
    229. Houndoom - OU BL imo
    233. Porygon2 - OU BL
    241. Miltank - BL OU
    282. Gardevoir - BL OU
    292. Shedinja - BL Meh. I've not much problem with this in BL, but I think it belongs in UU


    337. Lunatone - BL What? lol UU
    348. Armaldo - BL I'm fine with it, but some may want it banned
    360. Wynaut - UU ew. I say ban this thing altogether.
    365. Walrein - BL UU
  22. ToP


    May 14, 2005
    Solrock CAN'T be UU if Lunatone is BL. Solrock is used even more than Lunatone.

    Shedinja NEEDS to be UU, otherwise nobody will use it (except me and somebody [we gotta stick together]) :(
  23. Mekkah

    is a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Feb 8, 2005
    3. Venusaur – BL This thing won't really be a big danger, kinda like an upgraded Meganium, so for all I care let it stay.
    6. Charizard - BL OU. I think Charizard is too versatile and too powerful to let through, Waters are already pumping hits 24/7.
    59. Arcanine - BL When PR put this thing at UU, I actually used it. It absolutely is horrible in standard, but in this metagame I think it does just fine. It beats all common Fire-types to an extent, even Bellyzard if you allow it. It owns Grassers and stuff...
    68. Machamp - UU Both Machamp and Hariyama should be put at BL. They have awesome possibilities I won't bother listing. They do fine at the very least in standard, hitting a bunchload of stuff hard, I don't see why they'd be at the lowest tier possible here.
    76. Golem - BL Golem isn't that much of a danger, it isn't as much of a threat as Rhydon. Just put it at UU. People have used this in UU for years.
    80. Slowbro - BL yes
    82. Magneton - BL I don't really care, nobody will use it unless you put it in UU. Then again, with that Special Attack it might be a bit too threatening.
    85. Dodrio - OU I agree.
    91. Cloyster - UU I don't care if few people can use Cloyster effectively in standard, it is a very good Pokemon and I don't want to change UU to a Spikes metagame. This thing renders cool stuff like Gligar and Quagsire useless. BL at the very least, but I'd say OU.
    97. Hypno – BL Hypno is an UU standard, that doesn't mean it should become BL. It kinda does gay up the game though, making for annoying UU stall teams which is definitely the most stupid thing ever. Still, UU is UU.
    99. Kingler - UU
    112. Rhydon - BL Should I now list all Rhydon's awesome pro's and stuff again like everyone else does? Rhydon is fucking fucking fucking awesome, there's no 100% safe switch into him in ANY metagame. OU.
    113. Chansey - BL What's next? :/ Ban it. It's not OU but it's so dumb to allow this just because it's a pre-evo. It has major differences with Blissey but the only reason this isn't on every standard team is because Blissey exists.
    122. Mr. Mime - OU It's not that dangerous, its low defensives keep it from being broken. Fake Out and Quick Attack are so common it won't have a chance to do a lot.
    123. Scyther - BL Bug/Flying is awful typing. Scyther is used MUCH less than Cloyster. It's walled by Fearow, Mawile, Aggron and a lot of other stuff, while the Reversal sets are beaten by standard. UU.
    124. Jynx - BL Jynx is overrated, I'm fine with BL. People should stop being like "oh skarm's set is so awesome jynx is great" since it isn't.
    131. Lapras - OU Excellent. Lapras is an awesome Pokemon, don't change this. If you're going to change it, BL but not UU. Don't listen to goofball, Lapras is absolutely broken in UU and gives Walrein no chance.
    154. Meganium - UU It does kinda turn UU into a walling fest, it's like a Celebi, but fine.
    157. Typhlosion - BL This was my BL in my first SF (the previous one). If you allow Arcanine, it's not much of a threat.
    169. Crobat - OU Oh who's affraid of Crobat? Use Aggron. Use Mawile. Use Muk. Use your flippin' "UU" Cloyster. UU or BL.
    171. Lanturn - BL This is good, Lanturn as an utter UU is dangerous.
    189. Jumpluff - UU Jumpluff is a (BAN ME PLEASE), I don't care where it is.
    196. Espeon - BL Allow it and everything will revolve around it. Espeon can sweep UU teams without blinking. OU plox
    199. Slowking - BL Slowking isn't that dangerous. :( Put it at UU and it still won't be used much.
    205. Forretress - BL So you like to overclause things, but you put Forretress, Gligar, Lanturn, Scyther, Rhydon and Chansey in the fucking same tier? Forretress is OU. It is on every other team that likes Spikes, and walls everything and its dog. UU isn't meant to be a stallfest.
    207. Gligar - BL Ridiculous. Don't listen to VIL, Gligar might be an UU bog standard, but it's not going to rape anything completely. :[ Just put it back to UU where it belongs. I mean, there's other UU standards like Quagsire and Solrock that completely own it.
    208. Steelix - BL Just go back to OU, you (BAN ME PLEASE). I hate whoever started this in UU. Ok, I hate BLs in UU nonetheless but this thing annoys me to no hell.
    209. Snubbull - UU Good thing!
    210. Granbull - UU I don't see how this is BL, it's slow as fuck and, like you said for Hypno, "it takes quite a beating from CBers". So either of your reasonings is flawed, and I think both! It can stay in UU.
    212. Scizor - BL I'm fine with this, just fyi.
    217. Ursaring – BL Ursaring is gay, allowing it puts Granbull in its shadow. Put it to OU. Like with Rhydon, there's no good switch at all here. I don't care if its slow, Ursaring increases his (already higher) Attack much faster than Granbull, IS speedier, and has Guts over Intimidate to be even scarier.
    241. Miltank - BL Yet another stalling (BAN ME PLEASE) that somehow made it to BL. Hello? It is someone there? Miltank takes hits like none other and has an easy time Cursing up, Belling things and stuff. OU
    282. Gardevoir - BL Go back to OU with this, it's way too powerful and versatile.
    292. Shedinja - BL I don't care, I'd like this to be in UU but meh. If you are staying adamant on allowing stuff like Cloyster and Forretress this won't be of any use.
    297. Hariyama - UU Hariyama and Machamp aren't much different, Hariyama should be BL as well.
    335. Zangoose - BL Fine.
    337. Lunatone - BL
    338. Solrock - UU How the hell are these two in different tiers? How are they above UU, even? They're both not that freaking awesome, just good.
    346. Cradily - BL I won't like this but fine.
    348. Armaldo - BL Way too much of a fucking monster but I doubt anyone will use it.
    365. Walrein - BL Just go for UU, Walrein doesn't have such a great typing, it's just a fat bastard that knows what his job is. It's in no way BL.
    382. Kygore - OU yeah Kygore is way too powerful
  24. freaktron


    Aug 2, 2005
  25. Chronicles


    Dec 21, 2005
    Exeggutor Bl what the fuck, expecially if steelix is OU.

    Also I am not really sure what you meant about Rhydon, but he is way too overpowered for BL, Rhydon should never ever be allowed in UU :(
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