Summer Freedom Pre-Evolutions

[DragonDance]

Okay. I've changed my mind.

Ban all but scyther. I was down to just Kadabra, and fucking raped after a single CM. And I'm talking Lanturn, and all that shit.

 

[loaf]

if ues are to be banned (it looks like they will be at this rate), then vigoroth allowed pls. It's essentially a fully evolved poke in its own right, as it plays *completely* different to its arse of an evolution, and its stats mean it fits in with the uu environment well, without being overtly gamebreaking. Similarly for trapinch, clamperl, scyther, pikarat.

 

[obi]

I don't see how Kadabra, and possibly Pupitar alone are capable of banning all NFEs. Seriously, what's the point of banning Koffing?

 

[The Plant]

Were they ever a problem in past SF's.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

We had no problems until PR whored us up with the idea from their UE and all that shit tournaments they hold.


P.S. It's retarded to only ban a "few" NFEs and allow the rest.

P.P.S. Why would anyone use Koffing when there's Solrock?

 

[massi4h]

Well Wynaut has to be banned, its like uu wobby, coz the uu's have lower stats than the ou's so Wynaut still works and it's uber. I don't mind the other NFE's since I commonly use Pikachu, Viggy, Meditite and Cubone lol. So I love the NFE's. Please don't ban them.

 

[Warthog]

Im willing to negotiate, let Scyther, Kadbra, Pupitar be allowed but have them them as BLs. If people want to abuse the above pokemon they can all they want by using up their BL, which isnt a horrible trade imo.

So what do you all say?

 

[Cerberus]

At least Warthog is still thinking of all among us. He brought up a mid-situation, and you have to know I'm against the use of NFE Pokémon as well, but this could work. If people want to (ab)use them, then use up your BL spot. Seems reasonable to me.

 

[Nate]

Im willing to negotiate, let Scyther, Kadbra, Pupitar be allowed but have them them as BLs. If people want to abuse the above pokemon they can all they want by using up their BL, which isnt a horrible trade imo.

So what do you all say?

Sounds pretty good to me. First compromise I've seen in this thread yet.

 

[loaf]

i think we need to stop viewing unevolved pokemon as being any different than fully evolved pokemon. Whilst their stats are generally poorer, i don't see how you sweeping generalisations about them all is going to help determine their usefulness on an individual scale. If i want to use caterpie, then i'd damn well like to be able to without sacrificing my bl spot because someone decided it was just as effective as kadabra. Each poke should be judged on its individual merits, a sensible (unbiased) tierlist needs to be drawn up. If this just means saying

OU: Chansey, Wynaut

BL: Kadabra

UU: everything else

then so be it, but all this talk of banning pokemon just because they aren't fully evolved seems like unnecessary dilution of a potentially better metagame.

 

[WaterBomb]

I was going to come in on the side of banning them all, but I really like that idea about making the uber ones BL. You can't just judge by stats alone though, you have to look at usability and traits. Let's take Pupitar for example:

PROS:
-4x FGT weakness down to 2x
-Rock resistance from 1x to .5x
-Bug weakness eliminated
-EQ now gets STAB
-Both of its types are physical, allowing for more utilization of DD (STABs)
-Rock Head (in case you like DE)

CONS:
-Water weakness from 2x to 4x
-Grass weakness from 2x to 4x
-Lower stats
-No more STAB on Crunch (Poopyboah?)
-No more Sandstream for Endure/Reversalers
-Ice weakness gained (1x to 2x)

I might be missing some, that's just what I thought of off the top of my head. Weigh these aspects as you like, but I see many useful pros to match the cons. It may not be quite as good as T-tar, but it's certainly better than the rest of the UU environment. In conclusion: Make it BL, like Warthog suggested. Same goes for Kadabra and Scyther in my book. In fact, why don't we make a list of the plausible UE pokes and have people vote on whether they should be OU, BL, or UU?

 

[peter_pan]

scyther shouldnt count as a pre evo, cause it has the same total stat as scizor

 

[Mekkah]

Scyther should just be UU, its typing definitely cuts it down.

 

[Flub]

For the love of god, make a list of things to ban. Most pre-evos aren't good the majority of the time. For instance, would using diglett as a mini-dugtrio really screw up the metagame that much?

Kadabra
Pupitar
Shelgon
Haunter
Trapinch (100 base atk+arena trap=pwnage)
What else?

 

[DragonDance]

Trap only has 100 base attack. and is as slow as fuck.

-Rock Head (in case you like DE)

More like Shed skin.

 

[Siphai]

CB Quick Attack lol

 

[stonerchris]

OU: Chansey, Wynaut

BL: Kadabra

UU: everything else

hmm yeah, add pupitar and haunter to BL and this sounds right to me.

 

[Chronicles]

Ban them

 

[Flub]

So you are saying caterpie would be overpowered?

 

[loaf]

In fact, why don't we make a list of the plausible UE pokes and have people vote on whether they should be OU, BL, or UU?

Hell yeah

 

[Yuki [old]]

I'd be nice if people quit mentioning shit like Caterpie itt. Noone will use it if they want past the first round.

I agree with the idea of some of them being BL while the rest are UU. Making Trampinch BL is as equally retarded as making Kadabra UU.

 

[Tmnt Boy]

why allow them is the better question. I say ban the lot cause I want to see uu pokemon not rip offs of ou.

I think jakal said it best

the point of uu is another metagame not a mini ou one

 

[Mekkah]

Banning them all seems an okay option to me, so is making every questionable one BL (Chansey and Wynaut in OU, obviously).

 

[Veteran In Love]

good call wart, making pre-evos BL would discourage their usage in UU metagames but also help those who really want to use pre-evos.

 

[m800_runner]

kadabra is dangerous.period. the reason why is not because of the high Sp.Stats but the range of its movepool. haunter is not so bad because his stats are even more unbalanced than gengar, Pupitar has way too many counters and he shouldnt be a problem. the main concern is around the 2x ice weakness of shelgon with his rock head and 4 resistences it can be a bitch to take down. scyther is definitely a problem and should be...um...what was it again....oh yeah BANNED.