i'd be interested in doing this. i missed out on it last summer. i don't really have any opinions on tiers though. heh.
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Summer Freedom V interest thread/tier discussion
- Thread starter cook
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Definitely interested.
Cradily -> UU
Kangaskhan -> BL
Hypno -> UU
Hariyama - BL
Also ban bp teams, thanks.
Cradily -> UU
Kangaskhan -> BL
Hypno -> UU
Hariyama - BL
Also ban bp teams, thanks.
Machamp to OU
Why make Hariyama BL and this OU when they have effectively the same stats?
Hariyama to BL
See Machamp. I think both should be BL.
Hypno to UU
I agree. Toxic isn't difficult to get around, and Hypno is already ingrained into the metagame.
Cradily to UU
Absolutely, as all it does is resist normal and Toxic things.
Mr. Mime to UU
There are other Calm Mind passers like Lunatone regardless, so I agree with this.
Walrein to BL
This makes Gligar that much more dangerous, and Walrein doesn't sweep teams alone, so no.
Omastar to BL
Rain Dance and Spikes are both great, but this could upset people who are used to having Omastar on ordinary UU teams. I guess it could go either way.
Feraligatr to BL
It's a nice Swords Dancer but hardly dominating, so no.
Kanghaskhan to BL
Again, it's a nice normal, but not good enough to be BL in my opinion.
Charizard to BL
It's as good a special attacker as Typhlosion already, but Belly Drum? It can even OHKO Walrein with Rock Slide, unlike Swampert or Suicune.
Cloyster to UU
Spikes are already common often with Omastar's popularity. I would leave this be.
Houndoom to BL
It's feasible, but Pursuit and WoW are nasty. I would leave it.
Why make Hariyama BL and this OU when they have effectively the same stats?
Hariyama to BL
See Machamp. I think both should be BL.
Hypno to UU
I agree. Toxic isn't difficult to get around, and Hypno is already ingrained into the metagame.
Cradily to UU
Absolutely, as all it does is resist normal and Toxic things.
Mr. Mime to UU
There are other Calm Mind passers like Lunatone regardless, so I agree with this.
Walrein to BL
This makes Gligar that much more dangerous, and Walrein doesn't sweep teams alone, so no.
Omastar to BL
Rain Dance and Spikes are both great, but this could upset people who are used to having Omastar on ordinary UU teams. I guess it could go either way.
Feraligatr to BL
It's a nice Swords Dancer but hardly dominating, so no.
Kanghaskhan to BL
Again, it's a nice normal, but not good enough to be BL in my opinion.
Charizard to BL
It's as good a special attacker as Typhlosion already, but Belly Drum? It can even OHKO Walrein with Rock Slide, unlike Swampert or Suicune.
Cloyster to UU
Spikes are already common often with Omastar's popularity. I would leave this be.
Houndoom to BL
It's feasible, but Pursuit and WoW are nasty. I would leave it.
hi I want to join for once 8)
Machamp to OU
Hariyama to BL
Hariyama is practically the same thing as Machamp. They have essentially the same offensive and defensive power, same type and same attacks. The only difference, besides looks, is Hariyama has two traits to choose from and a couple oddball moves like Whirlwind. I could see a case for them going OU, but I'd just move Hariyama to BL and keep both of them there. Machamp and Hariyama SHOULD be on the same tier.
Hypno to UU
I am inclined to agree, but I can also see Hypno in a similar vein as I do to Mr. Mime below. It's pretty good just doing its thing. And, as per Mekkah, if Grumpig can fulfill a similar role... :[
Cradily to UU
Cradily has a mean stall, but it simply can't deal damage. I can see it in UU. It can't DO anything except receive a BP chain.
Mr. Mime to UU
Maybe, but Mime is a powerful BP chainer and it's fairly decent offensively in its own right. Fine in BL, but I don't care if it's UU either.
Walrein to BL
Definitely. Outclassed by Lapras? More than likely, since most people can't see past Tbolt, but Walrein has the stats and its own special moves to take advantage of like Yawn or Encore.
Omastar to BL
No comment. Huge power as well as Defense, but Qwilfish does Spikes decently itself and it's still slow and fragile against special attackers.
Feraligatr to BL
Overrated piece of crap. It's fine in UU.
Kanghaskhan to BL
Early Bird-Rest makes it stronger than most people give it credit for, even in standards, and it's pretty versatile. Agreed.
Charizard to BL
I made a comment expecting it was in UU, but you have it labeled as OU? It's a sweeping threat with Belly Drum, but difficult to set up and otherwise just another hard but fragile heavy hitter. I say bump it down, but I might not get much agreement here.
Cloyster to UU (flub said this, blame him)
Flub and G80 are dumb.
Houndoom to BL
Yeah. :/ Weaker than Charizard in many respects, at least in terms of sweeping potential.
As for my own suggestions:
Golem: It's not THAT much weaker than it's buddy Rhydon, but it's UU and Rhydon is OU. Shouldn't Golem be at least BL?
Porygon2: I think it should be OU, easily. Great Boltbeamer, fantastic support, can even function as Curselax-lite using the semi-standard Cursing set. Just because it's not a common standard doesn't mean it can't hang with them.
The most usable NFEs include: Kadabra, Vigoroth, possibly Pupitar and Shieldon. Chansey and Scyther are obviously usable, as are Pikachu and Clamperl. Cubone is outclassed by Sandslash.
Chansey and Scyther have been addressed, Kadabra should probably be BL. I'd say Pikachu is worthy of BL status and Clamperl UU, though one could argue to place them at OU and BL, respectively.
Machamp to OU
Hariyama to BL
Hariyama is practically the same thing as Machamp. They have essentially the same offensive and defensive power, same type and same attacks. The only difference, besides looks, is Hariyama has two traits to choose from and a couple oddball moves like Whirlwind. I could see a case for them going OU, but I'd just move Hariyama to BL and keep both of them there. Machamp and Hariyama SHOULD be on the same tier.
Hypno to UU
I am inclined to agree, but I can also see Hypno in a similar vein as I do to Mr. Mime below. It's pretty good just doing its thing. And, as per Mekkah, if Grumpig can fulfill a similar role... :[
Cradily to UU
Cradily has a mean stall, but it simply can't deal damage. I can see it in UU. It can't DO anything except receive a BP chain.
Mr. Mime to UU
Maybe, but Mime is a powerful BP chainer and it's fairly decent offensively in its own right. Fine in BL, but I don't care if it's UU either.
Walrein to BL
Definitely. Outclassed by Lapras? More than likely, since most people can't see past Tbolt, but Walrein has the stats and its own special moves to take advantage of like Yawn or Encore.
Omastar to BL
No comment. Huge power as well as Defense, but Qwilfish does Spikes decently itself and it's still slow and fragile against special attackers.
Feraligatr to BL
Overrated piece of crap. It's fine in UU.
Kanghaskhan to BL
Early Bird-Rest makes it stronger than most people give it credit for, even in standards, and it's pretty versatile. Agreed.
Charizard to BL
I made a comment expecting it was in UU, but you have it labeled as OU? It's a sweeping threat with Belly Drum, but difficult to set up and otherwise just another hard but fragile heavy hitter. I say bump it down, but I might not get much agreement here.
Cloyster to UU (flub said this, blame him)
Flub and G80 are dumb.
Houndoom to BL
Yeah. :/ Weaker than Charizard in many respects, at least in terms of sweeping potential.
As for my own suggestions:
Golem: It's not THAT much weaker than it's buddy Rhydon, but it's UU and Rhydon is OU. Shouldn't Golem be at least BL?
Porygon2: I think it should be OU, easily. Great Boltbeamer, fantastic support, can even function as Curselax-lite using the semi-standard Cursing set. Just because it's not a common standard doesn't mean it can't hang with them.
The most usable NFEs include: Kadabra, Vigoroth, possibly Pupitar and Shieldon. Chansey and Scyther are obviously usable, as are Pikachu and Clamperl. Cubone is outclassed by Sandslash.
Chansey and Scyther have been addressed, Kadabra should probably be BL. I'd say Pikachu is worthy of BL status and Clamperl UU, though one could argue to place them at OU and BL, respectively.
1 BL being allowed is what makes SF SF. This is not your standard UU tourney.
And I made top 16 last year, so I am 100% interested for this. Will post my opinions on tiers when it isn't late at night.
I'm definitely interested, even though one BL really isn't my cup of tea. I don't join enough tournies :s
Both are proven to be perfectly fine working in UU. Walrein and Kangaskhan shouldn't be moved to BL at all, especially in this tournament.
VERY interested, and my opinions pretty much mirror SSBM roy's. Although I think houndoom should be BL, because I don't see it being too good.
I am interested in this tourney! I have always wanted to join, but never got good at UU...
Those calculations with hariyama and machamp are off by a lot. Hariyama takes hits better than machamp. From a modest electabuzz thunder when both have 188 HP, 252 Special defense "adamant" nature-
Machamp takes- 42%-49%
Hariyama takes- 39%-46%
Machamp needs a Careful nature just to tie those damages with an adamant hariyama and hariyama would have higher attack due to its adamant nature. Also, hariyama's movepool is much better than machamps. There is no reason for them to be in different tiers.
Machamp takes- 42%-49%
Hariyama takes- 39%-46%
Machamp needs a Careful nature just to tie those damages with an adamant hariyama and hariyama would have higher attack due to its adamant nature. Also, hariyama's movepool is much better than machamps. There is no reason for them to be in different tiers.
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