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Summer's Come Early

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by BeaverBeaverBeaver333, May 4, 2013.

  1. BeaverBeaverBeaver333

    BeaverBeaverBeaver333

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2013
    Messages:
    13
    SUMMER'S COME EARLY
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I'm back bitches! I'd like you to take a look at my Hyper Offense Sun Team. It's centered on a very simple concept: trap and kill the opposing weather starter with Wobbuffet. This team is literally four sun sweepers, a spinner/spiker and Wobbuffet. Since I don't have to worry about weather wars, I made my team very dependent on sun. I've had great success with this team and I look forward to making it even better with the feedback I get. I would like to say thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to read this, and review it :)
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Ninetales @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Att)
    - Fire Blast
    - Energy Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Roar
    I choose Offensive Ninetales, because, in theory, the opposing weather starter will be dead. This set catches many people off guard, and the power is rivaled to Specs Politoed. Fire Blast has a pseudo-base power of 405 after STAB, Specs and Sun calculation. The rest is just coverage options. Energy ball hits Politoed, Hippowdon and Tyranitar on the switch really hard. Latias has no trouble setting up on this team, so I have Roar for Phazing.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 40 HP / 4Def / 252 SpA / 212 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Att)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Growth
    - Solar Beam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    Every sun team has a Chlorophyll Sweeper and mine is Venusaur. With the given EV spread it can outspeed scarf Salamance, Garchomp and Landorus and just about every other threat. Sleep Powder buys it more time to set up with growth and SolarBeam and HP Fire get almost perfect coverage. Heatran and Dragons completely walls this set, so get them off the field before you start sweeping. He can be used to revenge kill because of his amazing speed. 40 HP and 4 Def is so that Stealth Rock does less damage (HP divisible by 8 results in taking more damage from Stealth Rock) while giving him the most bulk for your buck.
    [​IMG]
    Charizard @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solar Power
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Att)
    - Fire Blast
    - Solar Beam
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    Charizard in the sun is an absolute monster. He has Stab, Sun Boost and Solar Power boost going for it to just overpower anything that tries to wall this. Fire, dragon and ground get perfect coverage with ground eliminating the annoying Heatran. Hidden Power Ground is especially useful to remove opposing Heatran. Leftovers helps counteract Solar Power HP loss for a net loss of 1/16 HP per turn.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Heatran @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpA
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Att)
    - Fire Blast
    - Solar Beam
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    This is really self-explanatory, Earth Power for other Heatrans and HP Ice for dragons. I’m going to spare you the time of reading more, because it’s no different than the other three sun sweepers.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Wobbuffet @ Colbur Berry
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    IVs: 0 Att
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Att)
    - Encore
    - Counter
    - Mirror Coat
    - Destiny Bond
    Wobbuffet is here to trap and kill the opposing weather starter. If I see a weather starter on the other team I lead with Wobbuffet and try to win the weather war from the begining. I'm not too concerned about Abomasnow. Politoed is only threatening if its Specs set, which deals 64-77% of his health so if you need to sacrifice a pokemon to get Wobbs a free switch (I usually sacrifice Forretress because he can explode before going down). As for Hippowdon, it could be a threat with whirlwind, but i usaully encore it on to E-Quake and that only does 31-36% assuming hes running smogon set. At worst he 2HKOs Wobbuffet. Now for Tyranitar, basically same thing for Specs Politoed, get a free switch in, now no matter what he chooses he will die. He uses Crunch (most likely) I eat Colbur Berry and crunch will only deal 69% at worst. He chooses Stone Edge and it only deals 86% max. If he thinks I made a mistake and misclicked he might use pursuit which would only deal 34% max which could be fatal. Anyways Wobbuffet almost always removes opposing weather starter from the field. I forgot to mention this earlier but I use 0 Attack EVs because I'm not using my attack stat anyways, and the occasional Foul Play and confusion do a little less damage. I'm just OCD basically.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Forretress @ Custap Berry
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Att / 252 SpD
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spe)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Explosion
    The only reason he is here is to keep the field clear of hazards, anything else he does is a bonus. He can be used to sponge physical dragon attacks and hit them with gyro ball. If you need to make a sacrifice to spin, you can take full advantage of sturdy and then the custap berry will let you get an explosion off. I use him to get free switches a lot.
    OTHER OPTIONS (in progress)
    Show Hide

    In the process of making this team i had to leave out a lot of the things i really liked. I believe those things still deserve a mention, however. This is a list of things that you could replace with something else if you so desire.


    SOME CALCULATIONS (in progress)
    Show Hide

    Percentage of total games lost because i miss Fire Blast every fucking time: 100%
    It helps to know some common things you can OHKO and ones you can't so I've put together a little list to share with you guys.

    THREAT LIST
    Show Hide

    1. Calm Mind Latias
    2. Specially Defensive Blissey
    3. Specially Defensive Umbreon
    4. Air Balloon Heatran
    5. Scarf Terrakion
    6. Bulky Volcarona
    7. Weather Starters (obviously)
    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Att)
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic/Psyshock
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roost
    Calm Mind Latias, the biggest threat to my team. Her already huge Special Defense stat compounded by the fact my team is almost all Special Attackers, makes for a lot of time for her to set up. To counter this two things need to happen, I need to know if he has cm and then I need to hit him with physical attacks from Forretress. Without HP Fire, (which cm latias rarely runs) the worst latias could do is 13% damage, almost completely negated by leftovers, while Forretress dishes back a max of 40% with Gyro Ball, and 58% on Explosion.
    Other options:
    Wobbuffet, use encore, if he attacks he's only going to do 23% and if he uses cm use Ninetales to roar him.

    [​IMG]
    Blissey @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Def)
    - Softboiled
    - Heal Bell
    - Toxic
    - Seismic Toss
    This team has a lot of trouble with special walls and no wall is tougher to defeat than Blissey. Thankfully Blissey is too passive to really do some damge. Venusaur can use Blissey as set-up bait since he is immune to toxic and he has sleep powder to force a switch (Blissey has natural cure).
    Other ways to take Blissey down include Wobbuffet and Forretress as they are the solution to most threats on this team.

    [​IMG]
    Umbreon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Att)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Foul Play
    Umbreon is not as commonly seen in OU but alas. Your best bet to counter him is Venusaur, Forretress and Wobbuffet. Seriously Wobbs and Forre can counter everything on this list. Switch to Wobbuffet, encore toxic (if he uses Foul Play stay in and counter), Switch to Venusaur set up with growth and after 2 growths he OHKOs Umbreon. Forretress is immune to toxic and can explode, doing a max of 45% to Umbreon.

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Stealth Rock
    All Non-balloon variants are easily handled by Heatran with Earth Power or Charizard with Hidden Power Ground. With Air Balloon, I am forced to hit Heatran twice. The best way to combat him is to switch into Charizard, use dragon pulse and kill him with HP Ground. If not you can hit him with whatever and switch to heatran and use Earth Power. As a last ditch Wobbuffet can use Mirror Coat to kill him.

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Sacred Sword
    Terrakion is a HUGE threat to this team, he outspeeds all my pokemon and has a huge attack stat with a movepool that is very threatening to this team. However, Forretress OHKOs him with Gyro Ball so unless Forretress is dead I can handle him pretty easily. Wobbuffet is also a solid counter to him, taking a max of 49% from X-Scissor. (He will most likely be choice locked on Close Combat or Stone Edge).

    [​IMG]
    Volcarona @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Att)
    - Quiver Dance
    - Fiery Dance
    - Bug Buzz
    - Giga Drain
    Similar to CM Latias, Volcarona has a strong Special Defense and access to a great boosting move. Basically you should treat this the same way as Latias essentially. If I see Volcarona on the other team, it can be useful to go out of the way set stealth rock (which I almost NEVER do) He's neutral to fire so a fire blast from any fire type will pretty much do it (Ninetales-93-107% damage; Heatran-83-98%; Charizard-110-130%)

    Jellicent
    Infernape
    7. Weather Starters (ordered from most to least threatening)

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Att / 4 Def
    Adament Nature (+Att, -SpA)
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Earthquake
    - Pursuit
    Tyranitar, he's the whole reason my Wobbuffet is holding a Colbur Berry. I've already went over this in detail under Wobbuffet's analysis. My Wobbuffet can beat any form of him. CBtar, Tyraniboah, Defensive Tyranitar, you name it. My opponent will probably expecting the OHKO so he will lead with him and I lead with Wobbuffet. Never switch Wobbuffet into Tyranitar. He can only sponge one attack so make a sacrifice if necessary. If Wobbuffet goes down, he can run through my team bar forretress (who he can just switch out on).
    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Att)
    - Hydro Pump/Surf
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Miss
    Like I've said before Specs Politoed gives me a lot of trouble, especially if he doesn't lead with him. Never switch Politoed into him, instead sacrifice forretress, getting off an explosion in the process. Hydro Pump does 64-76%, surf does 51-60%, even with 252 HP and 252 SpD EVs. I'm not scared about non-specs variations.
    [​IMG]
    Hippowdon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang
    - Whirlwind
    - Stealth Rock
    Assuming it doesn't have any attack EVs (I don't know anyone that does) His earthquake only does 36% max, nothing I'm worried about, I can switch to Ninetales, baiting the Earthquake, and then encore it with Wobbuffet.
    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow @ Life Orb
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Att / 252 SpA
    Quiet Nature (+SpA, -Spe)
    - Blizzard
    - Wood Hammer
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Ice Shard
    Not a huge threat honestly. It's not like I have any fire attacks or anything. Last time I played a Hail team I lead with Ninetales and swept there whole team in the hail. Not much needs to be said here.

    IMPORTABLE
    Show Hide
    Ninetales @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Energy Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Roar

    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 44 HP / 252 SAtk / 212 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Sleep Powder
    - Growth
    - SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Charizard @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solar Power
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Earthquake
    - SolarBeam

    Heatran @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - SolarBeam

    Wobbuffet @ Colbur Berry
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Encore
    - Counter
    - Mirror Coat
    - Destiny Bond

    Forretress @ Custap Berry
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Explosion
    - Gyro Ball
  2. Cerco

    Cerco

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    Personally looking at the team, it looks quite good, but your team gets hurt by SR quite alot, and Charizard really isn't the best to use if Forretress is dead; because all it takes is one little Stone Edge and he's done. I would remove Safeguard and put Destiny Bond on Wobbuffet, because you can kill if you plant the Destiny Bond the last Turn, making him not want to hit you, but he needs to. Another thing is; Why no Venasaur? He is quite the monster in Sun, and is quite a bigger threat, I understand the whole Weather Ball situation, but how is that better than HP Fire in different weather's if Ninetails is dead? I don't really see any walls to fighting types except Wobbuffet and Victreebell. I also say remove Explosion from Forretress, he isn't a good sacrifice, and can be the final team in your team and save you.

    TL;DR
    Volt Switch > Explosion
    Venasaur > Victreebell
    Destiny Bond > Safeguard
    HP Fire > Weather Ball
  3. w1nd1n6s

    w1nd1n6s

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    Wobbuffet why not use Dugtrio instead? Its faster and more efficient imo. and also tyranitar isnt the only one who's inducing storm there's hippopotas, he's way more bulkier and plus have whirlwind, he can just whirlwind wobbufett and whoosh :3 ... just sayin.
  4. Yveltal96

    Yveltal96

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Messages:
    56
    I like that you chose Wobbuffet, he is probably the best trapper of all time, also probably the bulkiest, which i think matters a lot especially for your purposes. Well done team, and i would hate to face an opponent with this team. Only suggestion I might make is for Charizard, because of his terrible typing and his ability wearing him down every turn, I recommend you teach him Roost and just give him a Quick Claw. Roost will ensure your Charizard doesn't get creamed by his own ability and gives him more staying power, and also gets rid of his horrendous secondary flying typing, eliminating his huge weakness to rock, and also getting rid of his weakness to Electric, and making him resist Ice once more. Sure Quick Claw is taking a chance, but it's obvious you want speed for your Charizard, but if you are going to use what I recommended, you may want to just give him Leftovers, to make sure he doesn't completely die out on you.
  5. SquirtleSquad626

    SquirtleSquad626

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    69
    It seems to me like the only hard counter for this team would be another, bulkier sun team. You've taken care of other weather problems with wobbs, but this team would have a tough time battling a similar team (although that is usually the case for any team). Also, a gravity team with a banded dugtrio can trap and kill almost all of your pokes, bar maybe forretress or victreebell.
  6. BeaverBeaverBeaver333

    BeaverBeaverBeaver333

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2013
    Messages:
    13
    Thanks for the feedback! I'll address all of your replies in this message and explain what I changed and my reasons for doing so.

    Cerco,

    I really prefer Suicidal Forretress. If you've read the description I just added under Wobbuffet, you'll understand. He and Wobbuffet take down counters (mainly weather starters) to this team with impunity. I would rather have the free switch a dead Forretress provides. Honestly, I am okay with Charizard loosing 50% health switching into S Rock, he's a fast sweeper and really frail. Any hit would have killed him anyways.

    Destiny Bond over Safeguard on Wobbuffet. You're completely right. I was in a rush and I don't know why I did that.

    Same thing on Venusaur.


    w1nd1n6s,

    I am not really a fan of Dugtrio, Specs Politoed easily takes care of him. not to mention Abomasow hits him with Blizzard and Hail takes his sash. If there is any hazards he is useless.

    I'm glad you brought up Hippowdon because I was so frightened by Tyranitar I forgot about him and you bring up an interesting point. If I see Hippowdon on the other team, I lead with Ninetales (just in case he doens't lead with Hippowdon to lure him in), I use Energy Ball if he isn't in hoping to hit him on the switch and then I swtich to Wobbuffet on the Earthquake, encoring it the next turn so he can't whirlwind me away. Then he's gone.


    Yveltal96

    You're right about Charizard needing some recovery, but look at that movepool, I mean damn! I didn't want to loose a moveslot or use Quick Claw so I met it halfway with Leftovers. Leftovers sort of negates Solar Power.


    SquirtleSquad626,

    I actually haven't had a huge problem with Sun Teams, because of Heatran. He can literally outspeed and sweep their whole team with Earth Power.

    You're completely right about my team being weak to Gravity, but in my whole career as a pokemon player I haven't seen one so I'm not too scared about that.

    Again, thank you all for taking the time to review this team. It really means a lot to me, and feel free to use this team yourself :)
  7. Yveltal96

    Yveltal96

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Messages:
    56
    While this is true, I think you could potentially replace dragon pulse with roost
    But that is your call also gives charizard a better typing in pure fire
    Also I noticed you changed it, but if you're going to use wobbuffet you're gunna need destiny bond
  8. BeaverBeaverBeaver333

    BeaverBeaverBeaver333

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2013
    Messages:
    13
    Yeah I'll do some testing with that and let you know what I think. It's just this team has a little trouble with dragons since they resist Fire and Grass moves which I have on like every pokemon. When I see a 4Drag2Mag team I can spam Dragon Pulse and watch them die. Thanks for the input though, and if I can do anything to help you out let me know!
  9. Yveltal96

    Yveltal96

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Messages:
    56
    only thing you might want to do is run a mixed growth set with that venusaur
    moves like this:
    -Earthquake
    -Slude Bomb/Sleep Powder
    -Growth
    -Grass Knot
    Grass Knot instead of solar beam because well for one, the types of threats Venusaur tends to face are heavier. Also if they do manage to take down your sunny day, grass knot will be more reliable
    also venusaur makes a better mixed sweeper than charizard because of it's stats, also because of growth in the sun, it raises Venusaur's atk and spatk 2 stages each, and it seems to be a waste to boost it's attack stat and not do anything with it

    also in theory, if you are going to make venusaur your mixed, you could replace earthquake on your charizard with roost and possibly squeeze air slash in there so you could also go for the flinch, and also receives STAB status
  10. dwarfstar

    dwarfstar mindless philosopher
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    606
    Giga Drain is actually better than Grass Knot, Yveltal96, since it has reliable base power and healing potential. Moreover, with your set, Hidden Power [Ice] should be placed over Sludge Bomb/Sleep Powder because Venusaur needs the SE coverage on Flying-types and Dragons.
  11. Yveltal96

    Yveltal96

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Messages:
    56
    while giga drain is a decent move, the type of venusaur he is using isn't going to be bulky, also he will find very quickly that PP is a huge problem with that move. But yes HP Ice could be a suitable replacement for sludge bomb/sleep powder
  12. BeaverBeaverBeaver333

    BeaverBeaverBeaver333

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2013
    Messages:
    13
    You two bring up a good point, and I've ran a mixed set in the past with mixed success (lol). Tell me what you think of this. It covers my weakness to Chansey and Blissey with a boosted Earthquake, hits Latias and other dragons with HP Ice, hits heatan with Earthquake and sweeps everything else with SolarBeam.


    Specially-based Mixed Venusaur
    [​IMG]
    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 44 Att / 252 SpA / 212 Spe
    Rash (+SpA, -SpD)
    - Growth
    - Solar Beam
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earthquake
  13. Yveltal96

    Yveltal96

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Messages:
    56
    it is good. Still would have gone for Grass Knot as it is a more reliable move, but whatever works.
    Also Grass Knot will be the best move for taking out bulkier water types like Politoed and Kyogre and that's what you have to think about when you are making this set. Most of the water types in this tier also weigh enough for Grass Knot to deal massive damage, and as i said is a more reliable move as opposed to Solarbeam because you cannot count on people only using abilities to set up weather. I myself have pokemon in my weather teams that know the moves that start the required weather (sunny day, rain dance, etc) JIC someone takes out my main weather starter, which is your strategy, making grass knot more reliable as you don't have to count on the sun to make Grass Knot deal damage

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