Sun/Moon Good Cores Discussion Thread

Well it might not be a terrible idea. A user in another thread pointed out how Mantine could be a good hail setter and partner to Alolan Sandslash. He was talking about VGC doubles but still I think there might be some place for him in a singles team perhaps.

I think that's the issue though if you want to run a slush rusher you need to find a second hail setter.
I'd like to hear more about that Mantine set, because it sounds like a neat little tech for this sort of playstyle. Mantine can even cover Tapu Fini's Defog role in addition to Hail, and run Roost + Scald. Sableye meshes pretty well with your core as well by keeping rocks off the field.
 
Amoongus is a good switch in to Loom
from my experience Tornadus-I has Prankster Taunt and Hurricane, and resists Breloom's priority. Alternatively, Grass pokemon and Overcoat pokemon are immune to Spore's effects.
I'll take these both into consideration. Hurricane sucks outside Rain, though, doesn't it?

I'd also note that Tapu Fini prevents Spore from working...except, ironically, on Flying types, the best normal counters to Breloom.
 
I'd like to hear more about that Mantine set, because it sounds like a neat little tech for this sort of playstyle. Mantine can even cover Tapu Fini's Defog role in addition to Hail, and run Roost + Scald. Sableye meshes pretty well with your core as well by keeping rocks off the field.
On sandslash's discussion thread:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...dslash-discussion.3586475/page-2#post-7085790

and also, on the 4th page of this very thread:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...discussion-thread.3586909/page-4#post-7085892

Note that this is aimed at vgc, but can probably me adjusted to singles.
 

Ninetales-A @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard
- Moonblast
- Freeze-Dry



Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs:248 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power Ground

Tapu Fini @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Defog
- Moonblast
- Blizzard


Alolan Ninetales not only gets five turns of hail, it also has Aurora Veil. It's probably the best new move of the generation, giving five turns of dual screens, and Ninetales-A is likely the best user of it. While Hail may be overall the weakest weather, it still takes away the weather of opposing teams, which is great. Light Clay extends the five turns to eight. Blizzard and Moonblast are potent STAB and Freeze Dry hits Water types super effectively. It's important to note that Freeze Dry can OHKO Pellipper. Ninetales-A is absolutely helpless against Steel types; Volcarona can roast Steel types with Fire Blast and with Aurora Veil up it can potentially be a terrifying sweeper with Quiver Dance. Tapu Fini is a very solid Defogger and can also easily dispose of Heatran and Ground types with Surf, Grass types with Blizzard and Dragon types with Moonblast. Furthermore, Misty Terrain protects the team from status; coupled with Aurora Veil, that's pretty awesome. A Bold nature with max HP lets it switch into physical attacks and remove hazards multiple times. Overall, this core abuses the amazing Aurora Veil and while Hail may not be the strongest weather, it's at least very fun to use and does have the potential to at least be somewhat viable in OU.
Edit: originally had Beartic in the core but as Bugsy pointed out, he's worthless when Hail is gone and may not fit in OU; he certainly has a chance, though.
Was thinking more about this and I think Sableye or Absol might make a good mega for this team because you'll want Magic Bounce to keep your veil from getting defogged. Sableye is obviously a strong mon but I think Absol might be better since this is an offensive team anyways and with the changes to mega evolution mechanics this gen he won't be so vulnerable on the turn he evolves, he'll get that 115 speed right away. As a fast dark type he's also good v Tapu Lele teams and with his speed and sucker punch (assuming Lele is taken care of) he could potentially clean up after Volcarona.

Edit: Beyond that I think you need some kind of u-turn/volt switch pivot that can bring Volcarona or one of your other mons in safe but idk who to use. Scizor is an option but he has that big fire weakness and this team is already kind weak to fire.
 
Last edited:
I'll take these both into consideration. Hurricane sucks outside Rain, though, doesn't it?

I'd also note that Tapu Fini prevents Spore from working...except, ironically, on Flying types, the best normal counters to Breloom.
It also learns air slash if you'd prefer to miss less. With that 4X weakness to flying that Breloom has, honestly you could just run gust and be fine haha.
 
I think that a lot of people are theory-crafting cores for this new Gen, and I think it's kind of cool that a lot of people are keeping them secret for the time being :) It will make this new Gen far more entertaining to learn, and gives a lot of opportunity for the creative, intelligent, and crafty people to shine :)
 

Voltage

OTTN5
is a Pre-Contributor
+
+


Kartana @ Life Orb / Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword / X-Scissor / Night Slash / Psycho Cut
- Swords Dance / Sacred Sword / X-Scissor / Night Slash / Psycho Cut / Laser Focus

Tapu Fini @ Terrain Extender / Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 224 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Moonblast
- Ice Beam / Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind / Haze / Taunt / Nature's Madness

Heatran @ Leftovers / Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast / Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon / Hidden Power Ice / Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

I haven't seen much comment on Karatana lately. Some people think it'll be quickbanned like Pheromosa, but I honestly disagree. It doesn't get great STABs and literally dies to and ember from Charmander. Now having 181 Attack and 131 defense makes it a pretty nice mon in general, though its base 31 SpDef leaves me wanting more. It really needs a way to deal with incoming fire attacks from literally anything. There are two mons that work really well there, Tapu Fini and Heatran. In particular, Tran takes complete coverage of any and all fire types aimed at Kartana while Tapu Fini covers the fighting weakness. Additionally, Tapu Fini covers the whole "Hey let's burn/paralyze this thing to cripple it!" idea with the Misty Terrain that can last for 5 to 8 turns depending on if you want passive recovery, or more support on teammates. There's also the fact that this core is really anti-stall, and it's a very cute FWG core.

In depth on each of the members of the core:

Kartana was who I really wanted to build this core around especially since it's a powerful mon who can easily rip through teams if given the opportunity. Yes, it's frail on the special side, but fuck it. Leaf Blade and Smart Strike are the two best STABS this thing gets, which is lol. then you've got the last two slots which can go towards a lot of things (which may get narrowed down when the meta really emerges). You've got your coverage moves which are kinda necessary, and then I have SD and Laser Focus Slashed on the last two to just keep offensive presence if you think your team needs it. If you feel like Kartana isn't already hitting hard enough, then you can get to +2, or if you feel like you could predict some switch, you can Laser Focus to keep up your offensive pressure. Think about it, who wouldn't want to get a nice crit and knock out something that you wouldn't knock out otherwise? If not, you've always got a second coverage spot.

Next up is probably the most underrated of the Tapus, Tapu Fini. Tapu Fini compliments Kartana extremely well as it prevents foes from stopping Kartana from doing anything too ridiculous. Tapu Fini also is a great switch-in to prevent other terrains from getting out of hand as well, especially with her sister Tapu Lele and her bf Zam. The Hydro Pump / Moonblast coverage is pretty nice and the third move can be used for which ever gives you more troubles, bulky Grounds like Landy-T and Chomp, or psychic types like Zam and Lele. Then her last slot can be played to your advantage. CM lets you set up and hit and get hit, while Haze can stop any set up sweepers that might come along. Taunt is also somethign you can do to stop Stall coming along even more than normal. Same thing goes for Nature's Madness since it's a fun super fang. The EVs are how they are because 248 HP gives you 343 HP, which can then give you a nice Single point you can put into defense to sponge up stuff. Oh and check out this cool calc should you run Lefties. And if you run 32 EVs in Defense you can live an LO High Jump Kick from a Pheromosa. There's also the fact you can run 200 EVs in Defense to maybe switch into a CB HJK, but like Poison jab is a thing, so it's iffy. The rest goes into SpA to hit hard, and then there's 4 points in Speed just to hit 207 at Modest or 227 at Timid.

Heatran rounds out this core pretty nicely. I personally am running offense here, but I suppose a stallbreaker set could work just as well as this core really is anti-stall. The thing about Tran is that you can send it in on the predicted fire move against Kartana, and then return with a wide variety of options. The big thing outside STAB is having Earth Power on this core. Earth Power allows this core mainly to hit hard hitting Electric Types like Thundy and the new Tapu Koko. Then there's coverage on the third move, and then Stealth Rocks because you know, Stealth Rocks.

All in all, I think this core could be pretty alright. Of course it needs some support from other members in a team, but Ithink it sets up a decent internal framework for more offense teams that want to shut down stall.

Relevant calcs:
252+ Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 32 Def Tapu Fini: 136-160 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 200 Def Tapu Fini: 135-160 (39.3 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Charmander Ember vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 276-328 (106.5 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

But yeah, let me know if I'm goofing up something, missing anything or anything else.
 
Last edited:
Was thinking more about this and I think Sableye or Absol might make a good mega for this team because you'll want Magic Bounce to keep your veil from getting defogged. Sableye is obviously a strong mon but I think Absol might be better since this is an offensive team anyways and with the changes to mega evolution mechanics this gen he won't be so vulnerable on the turn he evolves, he'll get that 115 speed right away. As a fast dark type he's also good v Tapu Lele teams and with his speed and sucker punch (assuming Lele is taken care of) he could potentially clean up after Volcarona.

Edit: Beyond that I think you need some kind of u-turn/volt switch pivot that can bring Volcarona or one of your other mons in safe but idk who to use. Scizor is an option but he has that big fire weakness and this team is already kind weak to fire.
I wish it did but Defog gets rid of screens from both sides of the field, so Magic Bounce would not prevent Aurora Veil from disappearing sadly :(
 
I wish it did but Defog gets rid of screens from both sides of the field, so Magic Bounce would not prevent Aurora Veil from disappearing sadly :(
Not true. Defog does not remove screens from your side when you use it and magic bounce effectively makes you the user of the move so it keeps your screens up.
 
It does, actually. Defog only removes the opponent's Aurora Veil, in that specific case.
What??? That rocks! I had no idea! My apologies for being wrong. Damn, Aurora Veil is OP.
In that case, yeah, Mega Sableye could definitely work. I would say that this will mean we're going to see more Mega Absol but the nerfed Sucker Punch kinda sucks.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
I got one for you guys


Kartana @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance




Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Adamant
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Pursuit

Simple - Kartana's main defensive counter is Aegislash. Pursuit Bisharp is the only thing that can threaten to trap and kill Aegislash, thanks to Pursuit + Defiant. It was a tried and true tactic in XY OU's glory days. Conveniently, Kartana's access to Night Slash applies sufficient pressure to Aegislash, forcing it to scout with king's shield, or attack with Shadow Ball. This provides opportunity for Bisharp to switch in, as a Sacred Sword is not the safe play for Aegis. Once the meta calms down and stuff like Mega Lucario gets banned again, I can imagine Kartana will be unparalleled as a great physical attacker that can really dish out damage without boosting, and can boost to smash through anything defensively inclined, all the while not sucking up the mega slot.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top