1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Sunny Day: UU RMT

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Pokemaster 3000, Jan 14, 2010.

  1. Pokemaster 3000

    Pokemaster 3000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    31
    Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you.

    Hey everyone! I just recently decided to start battling UU, and I wanted to make a sunny day team. I had a reasonably decent run with rain dance in OU, and wanted to use that same fast, powerful style of play in UU with sunny day. Heres what I have so far, and I plan to make plenty changes so please give me any suggestions you have. Changes made in bold.

    My Team at a Glance
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    A Closer Look

    [​IMG]
    Alakazam @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 104 SAtk/188 SDef/216 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Sunny Day
    - Taunt
    - Counter

    Vs Ambipom: Fakeout will not flinch Alakazam due to Inner Focus and Focus Sash will prevent a OHKO from payback. Counter will take care of an opponent who doesn't expect the Inner Focus ability (I don't know how safe it is to assume that the opponent will use fakeout though). Of course counter will also take out an Ambipom that expects Inner Focus and uses return first turn. Alakazam outspeeds him too so I can taunt first turn to prevent his taunt. If I predict right and the opponent does taunt first turn, I have two turns left, and can counter on his attack and use sunny day if it looks like I will be KOed, allowing Victreebel to come in untouched.

    Vs Uxie: I originally thought to use encore first turn assuming he would trick a scarf onto me. This way we are both forced to switch out. I replaced encore with counter, but by using taunt, I can still force the switch. I switch out to Arcanine, who essentially acts as a backup lead. If Uxie is not scarfed, I still have a taunt on him, so SR can't be set up.

    Vs Froslass: Alakazam outspeeds Froslass so I can taunt it, preventing any set up or destiny bond the opponent was planning on using. the EVs in special defence allow Alakazam to avoid a 2HKO from Ice beam so I can 2HKO and then use sunny day when the opponent brings in his next poke.

    I'm not exactly sure how Arcanine and Moltres leads work, but between focus sash preventing OHKOs and my own Arcanine waiting on the sideline, I should be able to handle these fire-types.

    ---

    [​IMG]
    Victreebel (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 192 Atk/252 SAtk/64 Spe
    Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Solarbeam
    - Weather Ball
    - Leaf Blade

    This Vicrteebel set is one of the few things on this team that I would really prefer not to change dramatically. If any of you are familiar with rain dance Kingdra, this is basically his long-lost brother. It essentially foregoes type-coverage for sheer power. That being said, with fire and grass attacks, the type-coverage isn't even all that bad. Let me show you the damage calculations wich made me really love this set Updated for new EVs and Nature:

    Leaf Blade vs. 252 Def Chansey: 52%-62%
    Leaf Blade vs. Max HP / 44 Def Clefable: 49%-57%
    Weather Ball vs. Max HP / 156 SpD Registeel: 61%-72%
    Weather Ball vs. Max HP / 252 SpD Steelix: 100%
    Solarbeam vs. Max HP / 100 SDef Clefable: 52%-61%
    Solarbeam vs. Max HP Spiritomb: 72%-84%
    Solarbeam vs. Max HP / 160 SpD Spiritomb: 56%-66%
    Solarbeam vs. Max HP Donphan: 100%
    Solarbeam vs. Max HP Uxie: 52%-61%
    Solarbeam vs. Max HP Cresselia: 41%-49%
    Solarbeam vs. Max HP / 220 SpD Regirock: 94%-100%
    Solarbeam vs. Max HP Slowbro: 100%
    Solarbeam vs. Max HP Milotic: 100%


    And those are just the common defensive pokemon in UU. In addition to the power of this set, Victreebel reaches 384 speed in the sun. With Vicrteebel tearing through the opponents team from the very beginning, the opponent will be playing catchup for the rest of the match. Sleep powder can be used as a backup for anything that isn't immediately threatened by the other attacks. After changing the EV spread to be more specially-based, solarbeam has the power to get some 2HKOs that I didn't before, notably on Uxie. Victreebel just misses out on 2HKOing Cresselia, but that can be fixed with SR support. Leaf blade still has enough power to do some serious damage, and the physical-special combo can keep opponents guessing.

    ---

    [​IMG]
    Arcanine (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 20 HP/252 Atk/236 Spe
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Sunny Day
    - Extremespeed
    - Flare Blitz
    - Morning Sun

    If the opponents lead is a Fire-type, or otherwise cannot be handled by Alakazam, I switch to Arcanine, which will get a boost if hit by a fire attack. A Flash Fire boost along with Life Orb and Sunny day make the power of Arcanine's Flare Blitz unrivaled. Extremespeed also has enough power behind it to do some damage and finish off weakened opponents. Morning Sun heals Life Orb and recoil damage, and is very effective in the sun. Arcanine is bulky enough to come in and set up sunny day for Victreebel after his initial run.
    ---

    [​IMG]
    Clefable (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP/152 Def/100 SDef/4 Spe
    Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Seismic Toss
    - Encore
    - Stealth Rock
    - Softboiled

    Clefable is used to set up stealth rocks, which help to turn some 2HKOs into OHKOs. If the opponent manages to use the sunlight against me, I can stall him out using Clefable, then assess the situation and try to get another Sunny Day user in. I like having stealth rocks, but if I had to chose one poke to take out of the team, it would probably be Clefable.
    ---

    [​IMG]
    Cresselia (F) @ Heat Rock
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/140 Def/116 SDef
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Lunar Dance
    - Sunny Day
    - Light Screen/Reflect

    Late in the game, Cresselia can come in, set up a screen (I'm not quite sure if my team would benefit more from a Def or SpDef boost) set up sunny day, and Lunar Dance for one of my sweepers that has been hurt and possibly statused. If used correctly, this can potentially allow Victreebel to rip through the opponent's team twice.
    ---

    [​IMG]
    Exeggutor (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Solarbeam
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Psychic
    - Moonlight

    Executor basically just cleans up whatever is left of the opponent's team after Victreebel and Arcanine have done their jobs
    ---

    So there you have it! I want to make this team as effective as possible so I am open to any comments and critiques. Victreebel and Arcanine are the heart of this team, so I will be reluctant to change them out for other pokes, but I am open minded to any help I can get. Thanks!
  2. El_Sargento

    El_Sargento

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    627
    Why not Weather Ball (Victry learns it in Heart Gold and Soul Silver)?
  3. Pokemaster 3000

    Pokemaster 3000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    31
    Hey thanks! I didn't realize he could learn weather ball
  4. iliketurkeybacon

    iliketurkeybacon

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    94
    Cool team, it doesn't seem like Swellow is a very helpful lead though. Let's see the top 5 UU leads... Ambipom will cripple it with Fake Out, or force a switch, while Swellow can't even OHKO it afterward (although it's unlikely that Ambipom would stay in after using Fake Out). Taking out Ambipom would help your team a lot, as it can keep chipping away at your sweepers and waste turns of Sun with Fake Out. Uxie could care less about any of Swellow's moves, and will either Trick it a Choice Scarf, or set up Stealth Rock and then U-turn out, and since it will move after Swellow, your opponent will get the advantageous switch. Froslass suicide leads will OHKO Swellow with Ice Beam after it uses Sunny Day, and have their sash intact to Destiny Bond your next Pokemon. Bulkier Froslass can set up Spikes on you. Moltres and Arcanine both love the sun. Put simply, Swellow loses to all of the most common UU leads.

    I suggest using either Jumpluff, Moltres, or Arcanine instead. Since your team lacks Rapid Spin, Moltres probably wouldn't be a great choice, and you already have Arcanine on your team. So maybe Jumpluff? It gets Sleep Powder to possibly give it a free turn to set up Sunny Day, and in the sun, Jumpluff will outspeed everything but other Jumpluff, even Choice Scarfed Pokemon. U-turn and Encore are also great support moves, and it's actually bulkier than Swellow. If you choose to lead with Jumpluff, you no longer need Sleep Powder on Victreebel, and can use something like Sucker Punch instead. In the sun, it allows you to take out Ambipom, and when there's no weather, it helps compensate for Victreebel's low Speed.

    A few more things that may be helpful-
    Clefable learns Moonlight, so it will heal more if you're not concerned with its low PP and unreliability in other weather. On Exeggutor, I think you'll find Hidden Power Fire to be more useful than HP Ground, and if you wanted the latter to hit Fire-types, Explosion will take care of them, and Chansey (but obviously Exeggutor dies too).

    Good luck!
  5. Bluewind

    Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fea
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,337
    I really believe you should invest more on Victreebel's speed, so that it could at least reach 384, outspeeding base 125 Pok├ęs, notably Swellow. Also, if you happen not to add Sucher Punch over Sleep Powder, I'd emphatize more his SpAtk. You'll be firing Solarbeams and Weather Balls much more frequently than Leaf Blade, due to the much higher base power of those attacks, so I'd max its SpAtk, give it a boosting nature (Rash), add enough speed to outspeed Swellow and Co. (64 Speed EVs) and put the rest on Atk, to hit Chansey (who isn't likely to fall for Victreebel anyway, because unless you sleep it, it can stall out the sun and LO recoil with Wish).
  6. Pokemaster 3000

    Pokemaster 3000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    31
    First off, ilikeyourname haha. Anyways, I see what you're saying about Swellow. I'm new to UU so I didn't really know much about the threats. Jumpluff seems interesting, but i would rather start with a lead that doesn't scream "SUNNY DAY!!!!!!" until I am about ready to proceed to the Victreebel phase of my strategy. How does this look?

    Alakazam @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Inner Focus
    104 SAtk/188 SDef/216 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Sunny Day
    - Taunt
    - Encore

    Vs Ambipom Fakeout will not flinch Alakazam due to Inner Focus and Focus Sash will prevent a OHKO from payback. Alakazam outspeeds him too so I can taunt first turn to prevent his taunt. If I predict right and the opponent does taunt first turn, I have two turns left, and can attack with psychic then use sunny day just before being KOed, allowing Victreebel to come in untouched.

    Vs Uxie Encore first turn assuming he will trick a scarf onto me. This way we are both forced to switch out. I switch out to Arcanine, who essentially acts as a backup lead. If Uxie is not scarfed, will encore work, or will it fail due to the fact that the opponent was out-sped and hasn't used an attack yet?

    Vs Froslass Alakazam outspeeds Froslass so I can taunt it, preventing any set up or destiny bond the opponent was planning on using. the EVs is special defence allow Alakazam to avoid a 2HKO from Ice beam so I can 2HKO and then use sunny day when the opponent brings in his next poke.

    I'm not exactly sure how Arcanine and Moltres leads work, but between focus sash preventing OHKOs and my own Arcanine waiting on the sideline, I should be able to handle these fire-types.


    OK I think I'll try that out. Thanks!
  7. iliketurkeybacon

    iliketurkeybacon

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    94
    I never really liked lead Alakazam, but I think it would work very well for your team, preventing your opponent from setting up while getting the sun up quickly. To answer your question, Encore fails if the opponent hasn't moved earlier, so you'll normally have to use it on the second turn, rather than actually preventing hazards from going up at first. Encore is nice against things like Calm Mind Raikou/Cresselia that try to set up, but at the beginning of the game, it's not too useful in my opinion. You might want to try Counter in the last slot, allowing you to take advantage of Inner Focus to OHKO Ambipom that use Fake Out, or even a teammate if they use U-turn (Ghosts ruin this strategy though). It also allows you to take on Arcanine better, which can 2hko with Flare Blitz+Extremespeed before you can take it out with Psychic.
  8. Pokemaster 3000

    Pokemaster 3000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    31
    OK I have one more question before I'm completely sold on switching encore out for counter on Alakazam. Would it be more beneficial to taunt, preventing the opponent from setting up, and then encore their failed set up move, or to be able to deal that heavy damage to Ambipom that counter provides?

    Edit: I updated the Victreebel set to be more specially-based. Thanks Bluewind, the added power in solarbeam gets me a 2HKO on the slower Uxie.
  9. Ekanselttar

    Ekanselttar

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    196
    If you Taunt a setup move, the opponent will most likely switch out anyways.

    Also, you're not looking at "heavy damage" to Ambipom. You flat out annihilate the sucker. Fake Out does somewhere around 75% (too lazy to find calcs atm) to 'Zam, and Counter pays it back double. Counterzam can also deal with a bunch of other threats. With the new moveset, you'll be able to do two of the three most of the time: Sunny Day, a KO, and preventing setup
  10. Pokemaster 3000

    Pokemaster 3000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    31
    haha ok so I guess I have a pretty good way to deal with Ambipom then. I now have eliminated encore so I think my Alakazam is pretty much set. By the way I like your avatar. I'm a fan of the Eva series.

    So now I'm looking at Clefable. I kinda threw him in the team to wall the opponent in case the opponent gets an edge on me. I like the SR support, and I like the idea of a backup, but I want to make sure I have the best backup I can get. Does anyone have any ideas of what an opponent could do to really ruin this team? Because thats what I want to be able to stop... obviously haha
  11. YaM

    YaM

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Messages:
    322
    I think you should replace Clefable with Regirock who can also set up SR, set up Sun, and hit Fire types/Flying types with Rock Slide (more PP than Stone Edge to beat SubRoostTres) Regirock can also explode. He hurts Altaria/Moltres/Scyther.
  12. Pokemaster 3000

    Pokemaster 3000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    31
    So if I switch Clefable out for Regirock I think I would use a set like this:

    Regirock @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP/36 Atk/220 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    -Rock Slide
    -Earthquake
    -Stealth Rock
    -Thunder Wave/Sunny Day

    I'm not sure if I would want Sunny Day on Regirock because I already have 3 Sunny day users. I also don't really like explosion on this because Alakazam works kind of like a suicide lead, and I am considering explosion on Exeggutor. Add in the Lunar dancing Cresselia and you get a team with four members fixing to kill themselves. (If this is in fact a viable strategy, please let me know).

    While we're talking Regis, would Registeel be an option? In the sun he would have an effective 4x weekness to fire attacks, giving me a good chance to switch in Arcanine for a Flash Fire boost. Cresselia could take ground and fighting moves aimed at it. Registeel also has high stats in both physical and special defence and in the sun has 12 resists and 1 immunity. It's higher special attack allows it to use thunderbolt on bulky waters, but it's not like I have a lack of ways to deal with bulky waters.

    So let me know what you think; Regirock? Registeel? Keep Clefable? Use something completely different? I'm willing to listen to any ideas.
  13. YaM

    YaM

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Messages:
    322
    let's just say Regirock is way more useful at beating Altaria and Fire Types than Registeel. 75 Sp. Atk is not high at all while Rock has a 100 base atk. Imagine your Arcanine eating an Air Slash from Moltres. Doesn't sound very nice. Arcanine's more of a sweeper than sun setup so you'll appreciate extra sun support.
    Ps have you considered Sub on Exe beat sucker punchers
  14. Pokemaster 3000

    Pokemaster 3000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    31
    OK then I'll make a more refined regirock set and see how I like that with this team. I'll look into substitute on Exeggutor too as that can help protect me from crippling statuses.

    Edit: let me know if this is too wacky but what about running sandstorm and sunny day on Regirock? I could get a boost in SDef and eliminate the threat of an opponent who can use the sun to their advantage. (This is just an idea I had after doing some damage calcs. Specs Moltres' overheat does 55%-65% to Regirock in the sun, but only 24%-29% during sandstorm). I'm not sure if running sandstorm on a sunny day team is really viable, though...

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)