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Sunny Fire Burning! 2.0 - OU Sun Team.

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Kusanagi Dark, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. Kusanagi Dark

    Kusanagi Dark

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Taiyou sansan Nekketsu Power! Cure Sunny!

    [​IMG]

    Helly everyone. This is the second time I post a RMT inspired by Lavos Spawn's Simulation of a Drought. Since the begining of BW I have been playing with a Sun Team because Ninetales is my favourite Pokemon and it had been a long way of trial and error gameplay and I still haven't found my "Perfect Team" But I hope that with your help maybe I'll be one step closer to it. So...Let's check the Team.

    Sunny Fire Burning!



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    [​IMG]

    Ninetales (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 212 SDef / 48 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Sunny Day
    - Roar
    - Flamethrower

    Taking LittleBigPlanet2's suggestion into account, I decided to change Ninetales EV spread to focus in Special Defense so that not only I can take repeated scalds and even some hydro pumps under the sun, but counter Substitute+Calm Mind Latias and Bulky Quiver Dance Volcarona by Roaring them away. Will-O-Wisp is there to burn Tyranitar and other physical treaths on the switch, Sunny Day to gain momentum in the weater war and Roar is, like i've said before, to phaze substitute users and stat boosters and finnaly Flamethrower to inflict decent damage.

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    [​IMG]

    Xatu (M) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Roost
    - Heat Wave
    - U-turn
    - Thunder Wave


    I've decided to make a little change toLavos Spawn's Rocky Helment Xatu by running Thunder Wave instead of Toxic to cripple faster treaths, specially Choice Scarf Latios. Otherwise, Xatu fullfills the same role as before, to prevent entry hazards and to countering Breloom and other status users. Roost is for healing. Heat Wave is to incinrate Forretress, Scizor, Ferrothorn and to inflic decent damage under the sun. and U-Turn is for momentum. Theree have been times in wich I miss Toxic...For example, when I face a Sand team using Hippowdown...But I have another Pokemon to take care of him.

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    Rotom-Heat @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature
    - Overheat
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Trick


    The newest addition to my team replacing Darmanitan. Rotom-H fullfils a variety of roles that no other Pokemon can. Overheat under the sun inflics heavy damage even on things that resist fire, I run Volt Switch instead of Thunderbolt to keep the offensive pressure using the VoltUrn strategy, but I have to be very careful when my opponent has a ground type on his team since I'm choice locked. Hidden Power ice is to take care of Dragonite, Salamence and, most importantly, Landorus-T, a Pokemon that used to give my team serious trouble. Finnaly, trick is in the last slot to cripple walls and stat boosters, specially Blissey, Hippowdown and Volcarona. The reason I run a Modest Nature instead of Timid is because I need the extra power to OHKO Landorus-T.

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    [​IMG]

    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 248 HP / 8 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    Scizor is the only member of my team who remained exactly the same. But that's because he still does his job well. U-Turn used in conjunction with Rotom-H's Volt Switch forms the VoltUrn combination so I can keeep the offensive pressure like I used to do with Darmanitan. Bullet Punch is my only priorrity attack and it has saved my in numerous ocassions, revenge killing faster threats. Superpower is still filler but I can use it against Heastran and Ferrothorn with some prediction. Finnaly, Purssuit is there to Kill Choice Scarf Latios and some weakened Pokemon on the switch, even tough it gives my opponent an oportunity to set up it's still worth the risk.

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    [​IMG]

    Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 180 Spd / 252 SAtk / 72 HP / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Growth



    In the end, even tough Victreebel can use Fire and Ice attacks in conjunction with Giga Drain. Not only he is slower than Choice Scarf Latios...But also extremely frail. So, in the end, I settled for venusaur like many of you told me to. Thee EV Spread is to outspeed Choice Scarf Latios and some other Scarfers like Terrakion. Giga Drain is my main STAB and it helps me to compensate for Life Orb's Recoil, ensuring that Venusaur doesn't die prematurely. Hidden Power Fire is to get past Scizor, Ferrothorn, Skarmaory, Forretress and a long list of Pokemon who can counter this set. Sludge Bomb is my strongest attack and it's neutral coverage proves invaluable, OHKOing Latios, Salaamence and Dragonite after Stealth Rock. Finnaly, Growth is there to turn Venusaur into a monster under the Sun. Just one growth is all that I need to sweep entire teams...And my final team member can ensure I get that Growth boost...


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    Dugtrio (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Memento
    - Reversal
    - Stealth Rock

    Even tough Dugtrio is still the second most important member of my team after Ninetales, it usssually ended up as set up fodder after Killing something, specially when it's focus sash is broken...And that's why I replaced Stone edge with Memento. Now Dugtrio not only can set up Stealth Rock, trap and Kill Heatran, Politoed and Tyranitar. It can guarantee that Venusaur got that crucial Growth Boost. Earthquake is it's main STAB and a death senctence to Heatran. Reversal is to OHKO Tyranitar and to finish off a weakened politoed. Stealth Rock for when Xatu can't bounce them and to keep Volcarona, Salaamence, Dragonite, Thundurus-T and Gyarados at Bay. And Finnaly, the most important move in the set, Memento. If Heatran is Gone and Stealth Rock is on the field, Only strong priority moves can prevent Venusaur from sweeping entire teams.

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    There it is. I know it will never be as good as Lavos Spawn's Simulation of a Drought...But I still want to hear your opinions on how to improve it.
  2. LittleBigPlanet2

    LittleBigPlanet2

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Hi Kusanagi Dark, very nice team !

    Building a sunny team is not so easy, but a well-built sun team can be devastating.
    Your team is good, Xatu + Dugtrio combo gives you the best way to avoid entry hazards, and if a tyranitar tries to kill your bird, you can just send out dugtrio and win the weather war.

    A lot of sunny teams are weak to dragons, especially latios, and scizor it's a good choice to kill it. A lot of latioses doesn't have hp fire, and even a specs surf can't do anything under the sun.

    If you want to use Victreebel as a rkiller, you can just use Venusaur with HP Ice and Sleep powder instead of it. It's quite better, and put on sleep a pokemon is always a good thing, especially when you can't take out the opponent. Venusaur can take an earth power from Landorus, Victreebel can't. Venusaur has more speed than Victreebel, and it can outspeed scarftios. The only reason to use victreebel instead of venusaur is the possibility to use the flamebeam coverage (weatherball + hp ice), and this thing is good, but the fire move can be useful against Jirachi, which is not a problem for your team, lol. If you try to use it against scizor, just prepare to take this damage: 394 Atk VS 166 Def and 301 HP (40 Base Power): 231 - 272 (76.74% - 90.36%).

    [​IMG]

    Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 72 HP / 8 Def / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Growth / Sludge Bomb


    I suggest you to use this Venusaur instead of Victreebel, it's more bulky and if you want to use it as a sweeper you can overcome steel types with Sleep Powder (but I guess that a steel type can be trapped by Dugtrio, right?). Sludge Bomb it's a good stab, if you want to rkill stuff and deal a good damage generally.

    Another thing I can suggest you is to change the spread of Ninetales, try this: EVs: 248 HP / 212 SDef / 48 Spd with Calm nature, it allows you to take scalds and water moves in general better, which is important if you don't want to get someone burned.

    Luvdisc'd, GJ and GL :)
  3. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Hi there,

    as lbp said there is no point actually on using victrebeel, i feel like its just outclassed by Venusaur which has more bulk to setup a growth. However, i think your team would appreciate more the standard growth / Sludge bomb / Hidden power fire / Giga drain because your team needs a cleaner, the set lbp posted is better as an offensive supporter or something like that.

    The other thing i think you can change is stone edge on Dugtrio. Dugtrio is too much setup fodder for a pletora of things, like Dragons (and stone edge fails to ko) Landorus-t, landorus, almost any ground resistor / flying pokemon / levitate, and this can be annoying. Memento is also usefull when you are in trouble, because you can sacrifice your dugtrio to take an hit with the sash and drop the attack of your opponent. its also great in a pinch if you need to setup with Venu/victrebeel since memento will let you have a free turn of setup.

    Now, like any sun team, you rely on scizor too much to combat dragons i guess. Latwins spamming drago meteors or strong CB outrage can seriously dent your scizor, and you really want him to stay alive as much as possible, otherwhise you will be in troble with them. I also see some other specially based pokemon like Gengar, alakazam or reuniclus being a problem to switch in into, so i think you can try this set: Bullet punch / U-turn / Roost / Sword dance, with Metal coat as your item and a specially defensive spread consisting of EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 216 SDef with an Adamant Nature. This helps you for a couple of reason, first you will have more switch in for the latwins and a more solid dragon resistor in general, as well as being a good switch in for the other things i mentioned, just watch out for hp fire since they can run it sometimes. This set gives you an another setup mon, which is great since you rely too much on venusaur in my opinion to close the battle, and a +2 bullet punch with metal coat is still powerfull enough to ko a lot of stuff, it still have your turning move so you dont lose your strategy.
    If you dont want to change this set and you want to keep choice band, i think its worth a try a specially defensive spread for Cb zor anyway. I dont have the exact spread because i've never used it honestly, but i think you can find it on site if you are interested.
    Other than that, great team and gl!
  4. Mr. Green

    Mr. Green

    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Hi, there

    The team seems particularly weak in Rock Polish Landorus, I suggest therefore Memento> Stone Edge on Dugtrio, which decreases the stats of the Pokemon opponent, allowing you to enter your Victrebell Growth in the field to use a more secure, also as mentioned above in addition I also suggest Venusaur> Victrebell, as with most bulkyness and more speed with this set of 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd Timid Nature with to outrun Scarf Latios and Growth - Sludge Bomb - HP Fire - Giga Drain. in my opinion HP Ice does not serve as a +2 with the support of Stealth Rock the dragons you can still kill them using Sludge Bomb, HP Fire is for Steel Pokemon (like Ferrothorn, and Forretress Skamory for example).

    Last thing I suggest is to use Ninetales with the set Chesto Rest in my opinion is one of the strongest that we are, if not the strongest, because what matters is that Ninetales can survive the most stretch to win the Weather War, since Dugtrio with Arena Trap can kill through pretty much just Tyranitar, and Hippowdon you can not view its huge bulkyness for Politoed however not all the variations of his moveset can be killed with Dugtrio.
    With the set Chesto Rest can save you from possible status Toxic type from Rest well, which is important, since it is a bit 'more difficult to manage the Weather setter infatuated with each status.
    Good luck, with your team!

    tl;dr
    Show Hide

    Memento > Stone Edge (for Dugtrio)

    Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sludge Bomb

    Ninetales (M) @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Flamethrower
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Sunny Day
    - Rest
  5. Nova

    Nova Samsung Alpaca
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,519
    Hi Kusanagi Dark

    Solid sun team you have here, I think you have a lot of offensive presence that can put pressure on your opponent. Looking at your team, there is a weakness to Quiver Dance Volcarona. After a Quiver Dance, the moth outspeeds your entire team save Victreebel and can really do a number with Fire Blast and Bug Buzz as both of your resists (Ninetales and Darmanitan) don't have the greatest of defenses. Another threat to your team is opposing Chlorophyll Venusaur who can outspeed everything under your team under the sun and hit extremely hard with its standard coverage of Giga Drain / Hidden Power Fire / Sludge Bomb. Lastly, special attacking Dragon types such as Latios and Latias can give you trouble as nothing can really sponge Draco Meteors so every time one of them switches in freely, something is going to be taken out. For these threats, I suggest replacing Scizor with a Specially Defensive Heatran with a moveset of Lava Plume / Earth Power / Roar / Toxic. Specially Defensive Heatran can easily check Volcarona and Venusaur as long as they don't make Hidden Power Ground and Earthquake respectively which is quite rare on both. He can Roar out the former to rid it of its Quiver Dance boosts while forcing it to take extra Stealth Rock and take out the latter easily with a Lava Plume. With his Steel typing and great special defense bulk, Heatran can take Draco Meteors and cripple Latios and Latias with Toxic. Earth Power allows Heatran to hit opposing Heatrans and Roar allows him to phaze out boosting sweepers.

    Now as previously mentioned, a Chlorophyll Venusaur is more effective as a sweeper than Victreebel. I suggest a set with Growth / Giga Drain / Hidden Power Fire / Sludge Bomb. Despite Victreebel having its Speed doubled under sun, it can still be outsped by common scarfers such as Latios and Terrakion and then get revenged. Venusaur outspeeds both Scarf Latios and Scarf Terrakion under sunlight. Sludge Bomb gives you a strong way to hit Dragon types with STAB and a boost from Life Orb especially after a Growth boost.


    Sets:
    Show Hide
    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 252 Spe
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    -Lava Plume
    -Earth Power
    -Roar
    -Toxic

    Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+SAtk, -SAtk)
    -Growth
    -Giga Drain
    -Hidden Power Fire
    -Sludge Bomb



    tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Choice Band Scizor ----> Specially Defensive Heatran
    Victreebel ----> Venusaur
  6. Kusanagi Dark

    Kusanagi Dark

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    First of all, thank you everyone for your help in improving the Team. Second, I have indeed listened to your suggestions and did some testing. You were right, Venasaur is Better than Victreebel even without acces to an Ice Coverage move.

    I still havent tested Heatran since I just recently read Novaray's posts. But I'm not too sure about taking out Scizor for him since he, along with Darmanitan, forms the offensive core of the team.

    I'll keep you updated in how the team is going and once again, thank you.
  7. Strategywin

    Strategywin

    Joined:
    May 4, 2012
    Messages:
    47
    Hello. Interesting team you have going on there. Few things I would reccomend:

    Don't use duggy. I use gothitelle on my team and it is very effective. The set:

    Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 64 Spd / 252 SAtk / 192 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Psychic
    - Trick

    The best gothitelle set out there. Do not doubt it. Hp fighting 2HKO's standard Ttar and you can live a crunch. Psychic for hippo, tbolt for politoed, and trick because it learns it. I am considering hp fire, but i like this for now. Speed for bulky toed.

    Anyways, I am also drafting a sun team, so pm me for ideas.
  8. Kusanagi Dark

    Kusanagi Dark

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Finnaly, after a long time of testing...I edited the first post with the upgraded version of my team, covering some of my weaknesses without sacrificing my U-Turn(Now VoltUrn) Offense. So...What do you think?
  9. CedOmega

    CedOmega

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    May want to edit the suggested set, as it seems you made a mistake in adding an additional 244 EVs.

    Ok. Now aside from that, you have quite the interesting Sun team, Kusanagi Dark!

    • Your team would seem to appreciate Xatu running NightShade>HeatWave, as it allows Xatu to chip away @ opposing Pokemon(especially Dragons) like Heatran, Gliscor, Dragonite, Salamence and Garchomp. HeatWave doesn't seem to really be doing much for your team anyways, so I'm sure you'll barely notice the change much.
    Xatu
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Xatu@Leftovers/RockHelmet([​IMG])
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    Bold Nature
    248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spd
    NightShade, Roost, U-turn & Thunder Wave/Toxic
    • In conjunction with the previously suggestion, I suggest Venusaur run a spread of GigaDrain/HiddenPower(Ice)/Earthquake/Growth with 80 Attk/ 252 Sp.Attk/ 176 Spd and a Naive/Hasty nature to hit Heatran who'd otherwise wall your current set to death, OHKO Scizor easily. Ice and Ground is great coverage for Venusaur's common weaknesses and, furthermore, makes this spread arguably the best set for Venusaur to use. Althought you do have Dugtrio, you might miss out once on this Tran counter once Memento has been used against something before Heatran has been dealt with.
    Venusaur
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Venusaur@LifeOrb([​IMG])
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    Naive/Hasty nature
    80 Attk/ 252 Sp.Attk/ 176 Spd
    GigaDrain, HiddenPower(Ice), Earthquake & Growth
    • Now that your Heatran weaknesses have been taken care of, your team is extremely weak to opposing Rain teams. My only suggestion to fix this would be to second Mr. Green's suggestion of Rest+Chesto Ninetales over your current set to keep Ninetales alive and healthy as long as possible. This helps win the weather war when an unexpected Toxic or T-wave cripples your current set. Rest+Chesto relieves you the worry of having to keep Ninetales from being statused and damaged to death.
    Ninetales
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Ninetales@Chesto Berry([​IMG])
    Trait: Drought
    Timid nature
    252 Hp/ 252 Spd/ 4 Sp.Attk
    FireBlast/Flamethrower, SunnyDay, Will-O-Wisp & Rest
    So far, it's all I can see that would help your team. Good luck & I hope this helped! :)

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