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SunStorm

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Master of Toad, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. Master of Toad

    Master of Toad

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Messages:
    18
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]SandStorm

    1.Introduction
    2.Team Building Process
    3.The Team
    4.Possible Team members
    5.Thread List
    6.Conclusion


    1.Introduction

    I wanted to make a team with a dual weather core to controll the weather and change it at any time in my favour.First I tryed Rain and Sandstrorm.However, I thought about the team a lot and tested it and I had the problem that the weather abusers did not work well together.Then I started with the mix Sun and Sandstrom and it work brilliantly.Hippo and Nine just work really well.The whole team just works fantastic and you can predict really good.

    This is my secound RMT and I hope you all like it.


    2. Team Building Process


    Show Hide
    First I started with a Sand/Rain Team
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Then I started to dislike the team and I change the core of this team
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    I added some abusers of sun and sand
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Then I needed a sepcial wall
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I tested a bit around and I change some stuff which made the team complete

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]






    3. The Team
    [​IMG]


    Hippowdon(Cookie)@Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    Nature: Impish
    EV Spread: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def

    Slack Off
    Stealth Rocks
    Earthquake
    Ice Fang



    Hippowdon has extraordinary physical bulk not many attackers can OHKO him without a strong STAB move. This set is also probably the best counter to any CM Jirachi, which is annoying and it can be a huge thread in this team so it is very important to have a counter in Hippo. He can switch into defensive variants of Ninetales with relative ease, which is helps even more to change the weather war in my favor. Hippowdon can handle many physical attackers, such as Dragonite, unboosted Terrakion, and Landarous, fairly well. Earthquake is a huge thread to any poke with comes in on hippo which has no immunity or resistance. Stealth Rock is a necessity for a team, and Hippowdon finds many opportunities on switches or on a poke which is gonna be killed by Sand. Everything that doesn't mind Earthquake minds Ice Fang or at least a bit ;). It is an easy counter to any dragon pokemon by Ice Fang also he is able to break the balloon of heatran.




    [​IMG]

    Ninetails(Firefox)@Focus Sash
    Trait: Drought
    Nature: Modest
    EV Spread: 188 HP/4 SpA/ 204 SpD/ 112 Spd


    Roar
    Pain Split
    Flamethrower
    Will 'o' Wisp


    Ninetales is the MVP of a sun team since it is the only Drought user in OU which makes him incredible viable in this team and this makes him to the second part of the dual weather core. Any team with a Dugtrio is a huge thread to the team although it can be killed by Terrakion it is still a huge thread to Ninetails although with sash Ninetails can deal him incredible damage to him form 75%-80% of the health of Dugtrio. Ninetales can switch into most Grass-, Ice-, Fire-, and Bug-type attacks, as well as Scalds from any Water-types.
    Flamethrower in the first slot as the STAB move, having perfect accuracy and power in sun is very viable. It also provides that Nine is not only taunt fodder .Will-O-Wisp lets Ninetales check a many of the common physical attackers, by crippling them which is very important since they can hurt the sweeper of the team.It also can give you an advantage when you predict the switch in of Dugtrio. Roar is useful to cripple or better to say to prevent a set up sweeper like Latias or Dragonite which is sometimes really important and with sash it makes the move more viable sometimes.




    [​IMG]


    Heatran (καληνυχτα)@Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    Nature: Modest
    EV Spread: 252 SpA/4 SpD/ 252 Spd


    Flamethrower
    Earth Power
    HP Ice
    Substitude




    Heatran's typing has a key role in this team he has a dragon resistance which is very important in this metagame. With Air Balloon you are able to get some free switches and some OHTKS after that, Garchomp, Salamence and Celebi and others are ripped apart by Balloon Heatran. His ability Flash Fire makes him also immune to fire attacks which give him another free switch on something, he threatens any Fire Type with Earth Power. All in all Heatran threatens many pokemon out which enables him to set up a sub which protects the Air Balloon and by that Heatran even more. Fire Blast is a powerful STAB move. However, the 85% accuracy is way to horrifying for me but I notice that anything which is killed by Blast is also killed by Flamethrower so I thought it is the better option. HP Ice is the better choice on Heatran because Dragons are freaking annoying and any ground type pokemon or Gilscor and so on and so on.



    [​IMG]

    Jellicent (It´s a me Mario)@Leftovers
    Trait: H2O Absorber
    Nature: Calm
    EV Spread: 252 HP/4 SpA/ 252 SpD


    Scald
    Recover
    Giga Drain
    Will'o'Wisp


    Jellicent's typing is arguably one of the best typing’s we have in the meta.He has with his ability 3 immunities which is great and these immunities are needed in this team. He walls Jirachi, most of the times, Keldeo, Politoed and almost any Water pokemon. Will ‘o’ Wisp is a good way to counter any incoming physical sweeper which can hurt Jelli quite a bit and most of the time fire pokes don’t want to come in on Jelli so he is pretty safe to use Will ‘o’ Wisp. Scald is another great move since it has a 30% chance to burn the opponent. Giga Drain has 2 proposes here first of all it is a way to deal with Keldeo and specs Politoed. Second of all it is another way to recover Health which is always a good thing on such a special defensive pokemon like Jelli. Recover is the most important move of Jelli, since it supports stalling against any Draco meteor users. All in all Jelli is very important for this team.


    [​IMG]


    Venasur (SnifDatPowder)@Life Orb/Black Slugde
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    Nature: Modest
    EV Spread: 252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spd

    Sleep Powder
    Growth
    HP Fire
    Giga Drain


    Venusaur is a boss under the sun it can sweep entire teams. I am still not sure if I want to use Black Sluge or Life Orb since Life Orb + Sand damage take a huge chuck out of the health of Vena. On the other hand it makes Vena even more powerful. Venasur has a great use in this even under SS, it can absorb Toxic Spikes and can come into Leech Seed which is nice since it is a free switch. It provides also a nice needed water resistance as well as a grass resistance. Growth is a wonderful set up move in sun with Sleep Powder it is even better because it allows you to have a free set up turn. The 2 attacks are really good coverage moves. My Powder is only walled by Heatran and some other things.




    [​IMG]



    Terrakion (Red Bull)@Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    Nature: Adamant
    EV Spread: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd


    Close Combat
    Stone Edge
    Earthquake
    X-Scissor


    He is my revenge killer and a great damage dealer. His base attack state of 129 is sky high also its Speed state is really nice 109 this makes him a brilliant scarfed poke. He has a great coverage with Close Combat and Stone Edge which are fairly obvious choices here. Earthquake and X-Scissor are moves that are not usually seen on Terrakion but he suffers from the 4 move syndrome. I felt that these 2 are the best moves to have a good coverage since they both cover things that are quite hard to handle.​



    4. Possible Team members

    Moxiemance

    Rock Polish Landarous

    Scoutland

    Mamoswine

    5.Thread List

    Show Hide
    Standard OU Offensive Threats
    [​IMG] Keldeo:

    • Calm Mind/HP Ghost
    [​IMG] Salamence:
    • Dragon Dance -
    • Mixed
    Standard OU Defensive Threats

    [​IMG] Gliscor:
    • Substitute + Protect
    -[​IMG] Sableye:
    • Prankster -
    [​IMG] Xatu:

    • Standard -


    6. Conclusion


    That was my team I hope you all enjoyed reading it. There are still some issues this team has but I try to work them out and cover them. I hope that you can help me as well.After you read it all here are some replays.
    Here are the results of the time I tested the team on PS:
    ou 1485 54 1545 ± 43 48(W) 43(L)0

    I 1 I 2 I 3 I 4 I 5 I

  2. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,417
    So a possible change you should consider is Donphan over Hippowdon. Now I understand if you want to keep your dual weather as you did say you made the team with that in mind but I thought I recommend it anyways. Donphan does a lot of the same sort of stuff Hippowdon does, used as a physical wall at lays Stealth Rocks. It also gets the similar Ice+Ground-type coverage, though Ice Shard's priority would serve you much better due to its ability to "revenge" Salamence and Rock Polish Landorus.

    Next I want to recommend a few move set changes. Change Calm Mind to Roar on Ninetales. Ninetales really has no place trying to set up in this metagame and with Roar it actually brings some nice utility to the table, besides Drought. Namely it helps you a lot against Calm Latias, who can even 6-0 right now if it has Substitute. Roar lets you phaze it out before it accumulates too many boosts and lets you hopefully deal with it later with momentum on your side. On Ninetales, give it Leftovers over Focus Sash. Focus Sash is a pretty poor item on Ninetales as you'll most likely be bringing it in more than once to set up Sun. Ninetales is already really weak to hazards, and even with Donphan's spin support it'll need the passive recovery of Leftovers.

    My next change is probably slightly biased :} but I think it would help the overall success for your team, not necessarily help with any threats in particular. Try Substitute over Hidden Power Ice on Heatran, plus a Timid Nature and Fire Blast over Flamethrower. Sub Heatran is so good in this metagame, as it gets so many opportunities to force something out and get a free sub. From there is where it causes a lot of damage as people seem to have forgotten how offensively threatening Heatran can be, in favor of its specially defensive set.

    Finally I suggest you use the more standard Growth Sweeper Venusaur. Timid is really useful as otherwise you'll be out sped by the, unfortunately now quite common, Choice Scarf Latios. Also you say that you'll explain why Jellicent has Giga Drain in your rmt but never actually do. Regardless I think Taunt over Giga Drain would be better.

    Good Luck!

    Sets (open)
    Donphan @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard

    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
  3. Master of Toad

    Master of Toad

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Messages:
    18
    I change the thread so you should read over it again I already change somethings and added a few explations =P but thx anyway
  4. joshe

    joshe the best

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    796
    this is an incredibly solid team and i really like the overall synergy of the team. I do however see that double weather can harm you more than it helps sometimes and i want to suggest something that could probably fill in the same role that hippo currently does. Sandstorm inhibits your main sweeper, venusaur and can kinda harm jellicent too because you would lose out on leftovers recovery. I feel something like a Defensive Forretress could fill the same role in being your physical wall and can even add more to your team in certain cases with both Spikes and Rapid Spin. Spikes gives Venusaur and Terrakion a hell of a time sweeping teams as most of the common pokemon that wall the pair aren't immune to spikes hazards. You will have to play a bit more carefully against boosting Terrakion and boosting Landorus but I feel we can change a few sets around to help with that weakness as well. Forretress also gives you a pretty solid outrage tank in cases of Choice Band Kyurem-B and Dragon Dance Dragonite as it takes about 30-40% from a boosted Outrage and deals enough to 2HKO or OHKO some versions with Gyro Ball / Hidden Power Ice. I do suggest Gyro Ball over HP-Ice though as it helps prevent stuff like Latias and Latios from switching in on you for free. Also pending on my suggestion below I would say that you should choose Stealth Rock over Spikes if you don't want to run it on Heatran. stealth rock is more important than spikes because it hits everything including those weak to it, namely: dragonite, gyarados, zapdos, salamence, etc :P

    Show Hide
    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Spikes / Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Volt Switch
    - Gyro Ball / Hidden Power [Ice]


    Continuing on the suggestion of Heatran, I think you can just run a standard Balloon Heatran with Stealth Rock over Substitute or Hidden Power [Ice] and just be fine. You could even try out a Sub-Toxic version (toxic over hidden power ice and a timid nature on your current set) which allows you to poison heatran's normal switch ins such as Rotom-w, Keldeo, Politoed, Tyranitar, and I suppose Jellicent which just generally gives you an easier time against those threats and helps you keep sun up by ruining opposing weather setters' durability. Again, I must stress that you should run Stealth Rock on forretress over spikes if you don't want to run Stealth Rock on Heatran. You have a phazer in Ninetales which makes excellent use of both Stealth Rock and Spikes so I really want you to try to incorporate both forms of hazards onto your team as your team can abuse the heck out of them. You also have a spinblocker in Jellicent which makes the decision all the more enticing.

    For the rest of the team, I'm mostly concerned with EV spreads, natures and some move sets. On Ninetales, I feel Sunny Day would be better over Pain Split and then using Leftovers over Focus Sash. I also Recommend using Calm over Modest as the main purpose of Ninetales is to survive and keep Sun up, not deal damage, With Sunny Day you can absolutely wreck opposing teams that are bent on keeping their weather up, i.e. rain and you make them waste 1 valuable turn. If you sunny day on the Politoed switch in which is a very common switch in to Ninetales then you essentially force them to switch again and again trying to get their weather up. This also works well with Roar as you are forcing many switches and you can rack up that hazard damage for an easy venusaur or terrakion clean up sweep. I should also mention that I feel just a standard 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd spread will work just fine for a ton more bulk.

    With Terrakion, you absolutely must run Jolly over Adamant on him. With Adamant you lose out on most base 100 and 101 Scarf pokemon or Boosted pokemon such as Jirachi, Salamence, Thundurus-t, and Landorus-i. You won't lose much on power and you now have more hazards to make up for that power as well. Overall this is an absolute must as you can't afford to lose to these pokemon straight up. I also feel a defensive version of Jellicent is better for your team in order to take on Terrakion and other aforementioned threats that can plague your team if you can't get the momentum set up correctly. Keldeo isn't much of a threat and neither is Politoed when they can't use their stab water moves. 252 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd or SDef with a Bold nature fits your team much better in my opinion. This allows you to switch into Terrakion and Scizor more safely and to do your job. Giga Drain is also an excessive move that would be better replaced by Taunt or Ice Beam. Ice Beam helps you out immensely against 4x weak pokemon that hamper Terrakion such as Landorus-T and Landorus as well as the 4x weak dragons, such as Dragonite, Garchomp, and Salamence if you feel you can't risk the accuracy of Will-o-wisp or the chance that they have Lum Berry. Taunt would help you out against pokemon such as Skarmory and Forretress who can set up on you pretty easily otherwise as they don't care about the status too much. I feel Ice Beam is better though as I'll point out later that you're pretty weak to Landorus and this would prevent Landorus from switching in for free.

    Just a final note, you'll always be inherently weak to special landorus with rock polish and all you can really do currently is to never let it switch in for free. You could try out a Rotom-w over Jellicent and then be more careful in handling Terrakion and Keldeo. Keldeo shouldn't be too much trouble if you can constantly keep Sun up which renders it nearly useless. Its role kinda overlaps with Ninetales and its based on dealing damage with Hydro pump which contradicts with Sun but it would give you a pretty much sure fire "counter" to Landorus as the chance of opposing Landorus hitting Focus Blast twice is about 49%. I'll just list the set here and ask that you try it out and see if you like it. You'll just have to choose whether you'll just have to play well and absolutely not let it switch in for free with Jellicent on your team or go an easier route with Rotom-w and be weak to something else like Terrakion and other fighting types. Such is BW OU :(

    Show Hide
    Rotom-w @ Chesto Berry / Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 232 SDef / 28 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Rest / Pain Split
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-o-wisp


    Anyway, good luck with your team and I hope you enjoy my suggestions :)
  5. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch Formerly Pokemasta77

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    796
    I am personally a huge fan of dual weather. Lets see what we got here. With Hippowdon, all seems good. For Ninetails, I would recommend switch Roar>Toxic and then Will-O-Wisp>Energy Ball. This is because I feel that Roar is not really needed and each team should have at least one pokemon with Toxic and Ninetails is a good candidate. I think that now that you have Toxic, WoW is not really needed and Energy Ball would be a good replacement for coverage. I would also recommend switching Focus Sash>Leftovers. Imo, you should just get rid of Heatran and replace it with a Life Orb Or Choice Band Mamoswine. I do not see Heatran really doing do so much while Mamoswine can tear apart any Dragon. The moveset will be in the end. For Jellicent, lets be honest, without any Defense investment, that thing will get raped. That set will also be in the end. With Terrakion, the only one issue I can see is that you need to run JOLLY. Trust me, you will lose speed battles and in a tier where speed is everything, that would be pretty bad. For Venasaur, the only thing I would recommend is that you switch up the evs, nature, and change Sleep Power>Earthquake This creates coverage and since Growth raises both, you might as well use it. Overall, I like the team and I am glad that you are trying to go outside of the box. Good Luck! Hope This Helped!
    Changes Recommended:
    Show Hide

    Ninetails:
    Roar>Toxic
    Will-O-Wisp>Energy Ball
    Focus Sash>Leftovers

    Heatran>Mamoswine:
    Mamoswine@Choice Band
    252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    -Ice Shard
    -Earthquake
    -Superpower
    -Icicle Spear

    Jellicent:
    Jellicent@Leftovers
    252 HP/196 Def/60 SpDef
    Bold Nature
    -Scald
    -Shadow Ball
    -Recover
    -Ice Beam/Taunt

    Terrakion:
    Adamant Nature>Jolly Nature
    Venasaur:
    Venasaur@Black Sludge
    252 Spd/196 Atk/60 SpAtk
    Naive Nature
    -Earthquake
    -Hidden Power Fire
    -Giga Drain
    -Growth

  6. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Mad, mad love
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,389
    Hey Master of Toad!

    Dual weather is interesting on paper, but I feel like, in practice, it just won't work. You should either choose to make this a sand team or a sun team and go in the appropriate direction depending on which you choose. Personally, I think this is more of a sun team than a sand team. if you choose sun to be your weather, your plan for winning should be simple: set up hazards, get your sun to stay up, and sweep with Venusaur. To help this happen, I second Joshe's suggestion of Forretress over Hippowdon. With Forretress, you can set up hazards while also spinning them and keeping your Ninetales alive so that Venusaur can sweep. I would also switch your Ninetales set to SDef Tales. The longer your sun is up, the more of a chance you have of winning, so change Focus Sash to Leftovers, and give him the set posted below. Not only will the bulk allow Ninetales to live longer, but you can predict switches into Tyranitar and Politoed and use Sunny Day to maintain your weather advantage (which, I believe, was the whole point of having dual weather in the first place, no?). Finally, you should change your Venusaur set to be more offensive (with better coverage) and ditch Sleep Powder. Sleep Powder just doesn't have good enough accuracy to use on your most important Pokémon, so you're better just trying to sweep. Since you already have Ninetales and Heatran to take care of things like Skarmory and Ferrothorn, I suggest using Mixed Growth Venusaur. With Earthquake and Hidden Power Ice, you'll be able to kill most dragons, as well as Heatran and Jirachi more reliably (I believe that +2 Hidden Power Fire still doesn't OHKO SDef Jirachi, even in the sun, but +2 Earthquake does). Hidden Power Ice also gives you a way to KO non-boosted Landorus, which otherwise gives your team a hard time.

    There are a few smaller issues with sets, for example, Terrakion NEEDS to be Jolly, and Venusaur NEEDS to be Naive. Jellicent should use Ice Beam over Giga Drain to give you more insurance against Landorus. Personally, I would also run Toxic over Will-O-Wisp since you already have Scald, and this allows you to cripple annoying walls like opposing Jellicent, Blissey, and Chansey.

    Show Hide

    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 SDef / 136 Spe
    Calm Nature

    - Flamethrower
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Sunny Day
    - Solarbeam

    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Growth

    Then just do the other minor changes i suggested and check Joshe's post for Forretress.


    Anyway, cool team, and I hope my suggestions helped. Good luck!
  7. Cygnis

    Cygnis

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    79
    Sup

    Read all the previous posts, I got nothing to suggest XD

    Between Donphan or Forretress, I would recommend Forretress, the Custap set most favorably because it laets you set entry hazrds while rapid spinning with priority while in the correct range. Running this kind of set would involve using Pain Split so keep in mind of that.

    Cool team, nice work.
  8. Usatoday

    Usatoday

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2012
    Messages:
    139
    Hi there got your request and I must admit everything I could offer to you has been said such as using leftovers on ninetales and running a standard forretress sorry if this seems half assed there is really nothing to say.

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