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Super Catch Em All Speedrun Plan

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Layell, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. Layell

    Layell Alas poor Yorick, I knew him, Bolin!
    is an Artistis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
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    Title Pending

    This is something I have been working on for a good amount of time and feel that I have a good base that I can release this for feedback and get some other feedback and ideas.

    Explanation of the project (warning long) (open)
    I think many of us have watched the speedrunners marathon where they tried their best to catch every single monster across the gen 3-5 games. Watching it was a great deal of fun and they raised an impressive amount of money. However they weren't very good and didn't optimize everything they could have. I'm here to plan out a near perfect speedrun that attempts to catch every pokemon using the minimum amount of games necessary. Currently I have no plans to actually run this, but may test each game once I feel confident in them. Here are my ground rules for the plan:

    1. Games may be restarted to transfer starters from one game to another.
    2. Eventmons will only be used if there is no other way of obtaining them. They will be used through the most common global wifi event whenever possible.
    3. If a Pokemon is caught in one game it is considered part of the overall dex.
    4. By the end we don't need one of every individual pokemon (such as a Metang, Beldum and Metagross), so long as each was obtained at one point.
    5. Trading will be necessary but considering the amount of time it wastes will be used sparingly.
    6. Swarms, random events, luck based events, Pokewalker, Dream World, Grotto's, Safari Zones, and what have you will not be used.
    7. Non gamefreak games games will not need to be "run" that are needed to get eventmons such as Pokemon Ranger for Manaphy. Pokemon Ranch is an exception because it is a dumb game.
    8. In the spirit of the games eventmons that would easily break a speedrun won’t be used at all.

    The games currently in the plan are: Black 2, Black, White, HG, SS, Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, Sapphire, and FR. Which makes a total of 10 games. Each game will need to catch in the run a total of about 74, Pearl not included for reasons explained later. We will assume that all the games would be played at the same time by ten dedicated players.

    Here is a brief description of some goals in each games speedrun

    Black 2: This game certainly changed a good amount of the run once I saw what could be acquired in it. Lucario and Magneton for one can be easily captured and allow for some very easy happiness evolutions. While the musketeers are 3 levels higher they seem to be easier to get to in these games just along the routes so for now they are in this game. Lucky egg breaks these games so badly.

    Black: Both of the fifth generation games were my starting point for the run since you cannot get their mons in any other games obviously. Black tries to catch anything not winter. I take advantage of my favourite ingame trade Petilil.

    White: Lots of white will be in here since this game will get everything in winter. Does a fair amount of trading with Black 2 in order to get the Geni’s.

    HeartGold: While it applies to all of the Gen 4 and 3 games I’ll say it here. There are a lot of possibilities for catching certain pokemon in one game of the other and the challenge is finding the best one. This is currently the only game that will trade away the first starter (Chikorita) once possible and then restart to get the third (almighty Totodile). Both of these remakes needs to beat Red to get the Hoenn starters from Steven Stone, and that may be the hardest part of the run in total. HG also takes care of Entei and Raikou. This game needs to be set for Wednesday for the Hoenn Sound to play.

    SoulSilver: This game goes to the Safari Zone, but doesn’t step inside. We need to get that darn Groundon at some point. This game will probably be the first one to beat Red with two starters and ideally a Rayquaza transfer via Sapphire. If still needed it will then trade some team members back to HG.

    Diamond: One of two games that can transfer to Pokemon Ranch. Ideally if a pokemon will be very easy to catch at low health even if it’s not needed catch it anyways because getting Mew will be a huge pain. The speedrun for this game will need to be very specific so that any pokemon not caught in the Sinnoh dex will have been seen in order to unlock the National Dex. Set the day to Friday so that lovely Drifloon can be caught.

    Platinum: This is a mixed bag, whiel getting the National Dex is a bit more difficult with 50 more mons. We get a nice level 1 Regigigas which makes things much easier compared to another level 70 capture.

    Pearl: Easily the dark horse of the run. This game has the goal of evolving Chimchar, getting Glameow and Purugly, and Mew from Pokemon Ranch. This involves catching every pokemon it can until you run out of money and have to continue on in the game. Trading the Amulet Coin from Diamond will probably be necessary, as will be selling items by some point.

    Sapphire: This game helps us avoid getting Lotad in the HG/SS Safari zone as well as easily get some other nice little mons easier. I consider the Eon Ticket a globally sent out event, but if people disagree I’ll change the Latios to B2. Snornut and the Regi’s are the main things that must be transfered to make the run work.

    Fire Red: This might be the only game that won’t use its own Masterball, since other games desperately need it. The current plan is to just roll and capture all the Kanto mons needed to get the National Dex. I’d expect this may be the first game to complete its section of the designated Pokemon. In that event it can always help catch some other necessary pokemon in the kanto dex. I do think the Sevii quests are too long to be of use, some actual testing will need to be done.

    Current eventmons:
    -Mew (Pokemon Ranch)
    -Celebi (wifi giveaway)
    -Jirachi (Colloseum bonus disc)
    -Deoxys (Pokemon Ranger)
    -Manaphy (Pokemon Ranger)
    -Shaymin (Wifi event)
    -Darkrai (Wifi event)
    -Arceus (Wifi giveaway)
    -Keldeo (Wifi giveaway)
    -Meloetta (Wifi giveaway once widely available)
    -Genesect (Wifi giveaway once widely available)

    One final note on placing Pokemon in certain games:
    -The ideal situation is to place them where they are easiest to catch and at the lowest level or at the level where they will be close to evolve if their next form cannot be caught or easily caught
    -Pokemon may be put on certain lists to accomplish happiness tasks or because of trading and lack of evolution items from one game to the next
    -Once again I’m avoiding random giveaways that aren’t necessary if a suitable ingame option exists
    -I’m not perfect so I may forget certain things.



    Here is the link to my spreadsheet Currently only I can edit it but if you help me out enough I’ll be glad to hand over the keys. Feel free to help me with anything from telling me what Pokemon I should use to run through the main game, or why capturing x mon in y game would be better.

    Current Concerns:
    -Switching White to White 2
    -Anything in Black 2 that is easier to catch than something in the other games.
    -Pokemon that will help speed through the game or catch legendaries.
  2. Ondore

    Ondore

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    For Mespirit, I'd go Diamond simply because you can get the Master Ball prior to when it becomes available and Dialga's catch rate is the second highest for mascot legends behind Reshi/Zekrom. Cressy and Latios can be used with B2's two Master Balls.
  3. Pika25

    Pika25

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    Root Fossil gets Lileep, not Claw Fossil (that's Anorith)
  4. bwburke94

    bwburke94

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    Why Sapphire instead of Emerald? If it's for exclusives, I have something to point out.

    Surskit - can be caught at Route 229 in Platinum
    Meditite - common in DPPt, can also be encountered via Sinnoh Sound in HGSS
    Roselia - common in DPPt
    Zangoose - Also missing from Sapphire. BW1 or Black 2.
    Lunatone - BW1 or Black 2.

    The main argument for Sapphire would be Surskit, but I'm pretty sure that you'd need to visit Route 229 anyway on the Platinum route. My idea is that you can use Emerald so that Groudon/Kyogre/Rayquaza can all be caught in Gen III.

    Another idea - running Pokémon XD for a few specific Pokémon we'd miss on the regular route, which also gives an extra Master Ball, most likely for Platinum. You'd need a GBA-GameCube link cable.
  5. Layell

    Layell Alas poor Yorick, I knew him, Bolin!
    is an Artistis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
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    Version exclusives have actually very little to do with why I put Sapphire rather than Emerald. Just look at my chart. While it could probably be very easy to switch the two. Emerald by its nature is just a longer game to run through, you have the Magma Hideout, the space station, Scott. I'm not sure that it's worth it for that. There is also the fact that getting Kyogre/Groundon in Emerald is a bit too random, and I've tried really hard to not let that happen. Plus all three of the trio are at level 70 and in this speed run I will probably have only a starter or something else get that level, the fact is the later gen games can handle fighting level 60+ legendaries because I can easily transfer my powerhouses from the other games. The gen 3 games are really stuck on their own in this format. I'd rather just catch Kyogre at the story point then push my way through the Sky Pillar and masterball Rayquaza.

    While I'm a huge fan of the gamecube games I'd say they aren't worth putting in since most of the exclusives can now be fairly easily caught. Plus due to the nature of the game I'd argue that you have to purify the pokemon too in order for it to be considered yours, since if I remember correctly the ID isn't yours until you do. Also if you don't snag what you need to snag there goes some 20 minutes where you need to interrupt whatever you are doing and go fight in some Colosseum to get to resnag whatever you missed. If we've been intentionally missing snags too that essentially means a reset if we kill something we meant to snag because there is no way to know for sure if Miror B will have what you need. Double battles can also really beat down on a team. You can't skip animations in them either, it's not worth it.

    I've started drafting out my drafts for routes and what needs to be caught where. I've started on gen 3 and already I've changed a decent bit of the FR run to ensure that I can get 60 kanto mons for the national dex. It's also a huge pain that I cannot always find information where one pokemon is easier to find in one game than another (ie Horsea in FR and Krabby in LG) which has resulted in some changes allowing me to get Krabby in SS and level it up once to evolve. I'll probably need to go through again and do HM's and what sort of HM slaves will be best. If that means capturing a mon outside of what is planned for each game I don't really mind since those are a bit more for utility.

    Also I'm interested in Switching White to White 2, I'm just not sure if it's easier to beat one game over the other, although it may cause some minor things like the monkey trio needing actual effort to get. But the advantage is that I could get Latias here if the Sapphire one becomes too difficult along with all the other legends sitting around in the BW2 games.
  6. Kryones

    Kryones

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    So I made an account just to respond to this posting.

    I'm interested in attempting this, except I'd be doing it solo. I'm not necessarily all about the speed run as I'm really just interested in "catching 'em all" (as much as possible barring the eventmon). Do you suggest this as a good layout to do that cost-effectively? (Meaning with near the least amount of games and time required?)

    I'm also wondering if it will be possible to get the entire collection on the same game when it's all said and done?


    K thnx
  7. inanimate blob

    inanimate blob

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    As long as you're not using emulators, have a DS or DSLite, and have two DS's, yes, you should be able to get all of the Pokémon onto one system.
  8. Layell

    Layell Alas poor Yorick, I knew him, Bolin!
    is an Artistis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
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    I'll try to answer your question as best I can but there are some things.

    Yeah you could probably do this solo, although you would need two Nintendo DS handhelds. One of them would have to be an original or DS Lite to have a gameboy advance slot.

    In terms of completing your personal pokedex this might not be the best plan. Most of the games do have methods of getting a good chunk of every pokemon, it's just in the context of a speed run they are horribly inefficient. I don't want to wait every day or change the clock for the ingame swarms but in the context of a more relaxed player that might only play an hour each day that's more than fine. Since I'm minimizing luck based things such as the swarms and the Safari Zone, and some sidequests and side areas I am limiting tons pokemon that can be caught in each game.

    If you just want to personally fill your dex start at the top and figuring out how to get each mon in the games you own. Rather than say, buying the game I wrote that is best then beating the game and catching that pokemon in the area I say and raising it the one or two levels to evolve it, rather than just catching it and raising it say ten levels to evolve it in the game you own.

    Heck this isn't the minimum number of games. You can easily go without Black 2, just things like Riolu, Azuril, Latios, and a few others take a bit more time in the others.

    If you want them all on one game that actually takes more effort. I'm assuming you want a completed dex on one game. Problem is for things such as the starters you'll probably have at their highest stage, so you'll need to breed them, hatch the egg and level the baby in the second evolution. You can take some time out of it by leveling some mons right before they will evolve twice, that helps. But transferring takes a ton of time. I did most of gen 3 > 4 and I wanted to kill myself. Transfers are annoying, and I did most of them while doing other stuff while watching TV.

    Use Serebii and Bulbapedia for helping catch as much as you can, then consider if you need to shell out money for more games. Chances are you may not even have to. Also there is always wifi.
  9. Kryones

    Kryones

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    Sorry I hijacked your post. To follow up and end my question - I think I've established that (Barring event pokemon/non catchable) the least amount of games necessary to catch all available pokemon are:

    Fire Red
    Emerald
    Diamond
    Pearl
    Heart Gold
    Black 1
    White 1 & 2
    (Edit - noticed I had missed Zorua/ Zoroark which are only available in White 2, so I included it as well.)

    Each of these have exclusive pokemon. I think all game versions have pokemon that are repeated somewhere in these titles. So yea.

    On topic: I think this is a great layout for a speed run. It'd be interesting to see it executed. Good work.
  10. Pika25

    Pika25

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    No, not even the DSi has a GBA slot, so that leaves an original DS.
  11. Layell

    Layell Alas poor Yorick, I knew him, Bolin!
    is an Artistis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
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    Now that I've played Black 2 a few thoughts. While it is longer there is certainly a ton of opportunity for abuse. Memory link is amazingly useful but since you need to have beaten Black or White that does mean I can't use it as easily as I had on my ingame run. The possibility of skipping through Chargestone Cave in B2 and then after getting memory link going back to get N's Pokemon and an Elektross is very enticing with their 1.5 exp. Magnemite can easily carry a game. Plus it's only after Chargestone you get the wonderful Lucky Egg, which would be the only point I'd seriously consider training pokemon that won't be part of the standard team. With all the optional legends in Black 2 as well I might just use them as leveling fodder for some quick exp.

    Pass me any other thoughts that may occurr

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