1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Surprise Your Opponent: Undiscovered Threats

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by DittoCrow, Nov 23, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,478
    Discussion of 'Undiscovered' Threats​

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]

    Introduction:

    RU is a tier with a ton of viable threats. It's fairly easy to pick out a Pokemon from NU and use it in RU, since the tier is so diverse. However, few players do this as NU Pokemon seem mostly gimmicky, but we've discovered some amazing Pokemon in the past such as Absol, Swellow, and Ludicolo. If you've been trying out a lesser-used Pokemon that does really well in the tier, then please post it here. This will help find some great threats for people to use that can surprise opponents and become 'new' additions to the RU tier. It would be helpful if you posted the sprite of the Pokemon and a brief description of the sets you used or why you think it is effective.​

    [​IMG]

    Rules:

    In order to keep the thread organized and helpful, we're going to need a few ways to help maintain the thread. Your post WILL be deleted if you do not follow these rules:


    1. We will only be discussing a maximum of 2 threats a week. Do NOT post another threat if there are already two threats currently being discussed in the thread. This will let us fully discuss certain Pokemon, like the Pokemon of the Week does. Don't post 2 Pokemon in one week either. If you don't follow this rule, your post will be deleted.
    2. Try not to post Pokemon that have their skill known to the majority of players. We know that Tauros and Fraxure are good Pokemon, so we don't need to reiterate their strengths.
    3. If you post a Pokemon is not used much and is already known to be bad or just decent at best, your post will be deleted. Stuff like Alomomola and Ninjask is unacceptable.
    4. You can post a Pokemon that you think has potential, but isn't tested yet. However, you must have a really good explanation of why you think this so people can discuss whether or not the threat is effective.
    5. Theorymonning is welcomed, but it would help the discussion if you test the Pokemon.

    Discussions:

    Click on a Pokemon to find the discussion about it. Pokemon that are worth using will be in Blue, and Pokemon not worth using will be in Orange.

    Week 1: Drifblim Leavanny
    Week 2: Eelektross Seismitoad
    Week 3: Piloswine Kangaskhan
    Week 4: Altaria


    Without further adieu, let's find some new threats!
  2. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    960
    [​IMG]
    Leavanny (F) @ Life Orb
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Leaf Blade
    - X-scissor
    - Baton Pass

    Swords Dance Leavanny is a really cool Pokemon in this metagame, since it slaughters Cresselia + Poliwrath, which is one of the biggest defensive cores in the tier at the moment. While it's coverage is bad, Baton Pass lets it get past this detriment by letting Leavanny give any Swords Dances that it sets up to something like, say, Kabutops. In fact, Kabutops is actually a really good partner for Leavanny, since it makes Moltres and Entei, who have few issues with Leavanny, must predict between Hidden Power Grass and their STAB moves, while Kabutops can rip through the opposing team with the Swords Dance that Leavanny has Baton Passed to it. On the other hand, Leavanny is incredibly difficult to set up, and due to its plethora of weaknesses to common attacking types. While imo, this guy is definitely an underrated threat that people should use more, what do you guys think?
  3. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    651
    For Leavanny I think an excellent partner is Aerodactyl. Aerodactyl is one of the best offensive checks to Moltres and Entei there is, and with a SD boost Aerodactyl can easily run everything over. I think what really lets Leavanny shine is her base 92 Speed, which outspeeds notably Moltres, Lilligant and trolls Rotom.

    I've noticed that Leavanny has a hard time setting up, as she does have a few weaknesses, but the resists she has are mainly from support Pokemon like Lanturn, Slowking, and Tangrowth, all of which can use Thunder Wave / Sleep Powder to cripple her; Lum Berry is a good item then, but the problem is then the damage output is rather low. Substitute be the fourth move, as then Leavanny can set it up on the switch out, or on a support attack, but then she's left with her measly coverage. On the bright side, constantly using Substitute can put Leavanny in Swarm range, if using Swarm because Sun teams aren't too common, then its a pseduo-Choice Band boost to X-Scissor on top of Swords Dance.

    Additionally, I've noticed that Leavanny has quite the support movepool, but lacks the defenses to use them as well as others. Synthesis, Heal Bell, Baton Pass, Entrainment are all examples. I was thinking of how she could take advantage of Entrainment, like copying Natural Cure or Regenerator, but those Pokemon will either 1) cripple her, or 2) switch out anyway.

    Leavanny's special movepool is sorta disappointing, only having Leaf Storm, Hidden Power, Giga Drain, and Bug Buzz.

    A niche specifically for Leavanny is a Baton Passer for Sun teams; Chlorophyll, Baton Pass, and either Swords Dance, Hone Claws, or Calm Mind, and Substitute. Also, beating Lilligant in and out of Sun with Chlorophyll is always a plus ^.^

    Is there any other [setup] sweeper that is a good offensive partner for Leavanny? One that can take out Fire, Poison, Flying Pokemon? (Lol, that's quite a lot x.x)

    Lol, forgot Leavanny existed...
  4. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Messages:
    737
    Leavanny looks like a really cool poke at the moment. The main problem with it though, as others have mentioned is its inability to set-up effectively. It needs a LO to have shot at 1HKO ing 252 / 252 Bold Cresselia, but if it has a LO then it is very susceptible to Thunder Wave paralysis. Not to mention that some Cresselia are now running HP Fire to ruin Escavalier and Durant. I think that Lum Berry might be it's best choice for an item-you still 1HKO wrath after SR at +2, as well as standard 252 HP Rotom, which you would be able to set-up on with a Lum Berry.

    As far as partners go, Kabutops is definitely up there. With a Lum Berry, Leavanny is able to set-up easily on Tangrowth and other kabutops counters, while tops is able to rapid spin sr away and beat entei and moltres for leavanny. They cover each others weaknesses almost perfectly iirc.

    Spikes and SR also go a really long way in allowing Leavanny to gain some key KO's, such as against max defense Tangrowth. Both Smeargle and Crustle are excellent choices for offensive teams-Smeargle, since it has spore and the ability to almost always get up at least one layer of hazards, and Crustle since it is such a great anti-lead atm. Both are able to get up both stealth rock and spikes. For more defensive teams looking for a way to power through defensive cores, rhydon has great synergy with Leavanny since it resists fire, flying and can smash poison types with it's STAB Earthquake. As for spikers, unfortunately not many synergize that well with Leavanny. However, this often doesn't matter too much as Leavanny will be used as a stall breaker, and it's shared weaknesses with the defensive mons on your team won't matter all that much. My personal favourites are Ferroseed and Roselia-Ferroseed is arguably the best supporter in the entire tier, as with Leech Seed + Spikes + Thunder Wave + Iron Barbs, and with that excellent typing you can set-up spikes on a large number of pokes and quickly wear down physical attackers. Roselia is an excellent counter to things like sceptile and manectric, which can be very problematic for leavanny, as leavanny is going to be taking super effective damage from whichever HP sceptile has, and will fall to an Overheat / Flamethrower from Manectric.

    Overall, Leavanny is quite an underrated poke at the moment-however it does suffer hugely from its terrible defensive typing and SR weakness. Underestimate it at your peril though-at +2, Leavanny can decimate defensive and offensive teams alike.
  5. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    165
    Oh my bad I thought when it said 2 pokes per week max,I thought it meant something else oh well.Leavanny is awesome,if played correctly.SD and solid dual STAB moves in Leaf Blade and X-scissor but what really sticks out is batton pass.Remember in DW where Blaziken was so frightning,not because it could sweep you in a minute,but because when its done with its sweep it can just pass to something deadly(i.e. Garchomp)?Yeah thats Leavanny,exept worse dual STAB,and typing,and no speed boost.Think about it in a balance team Leavanny can ravage through things like cresswrath core and when the rest of the pokes are very offensive,just BP that +2 to something like Aerodactyle.That is Leavannys niche,and something that makes Leavanny a true fright in the team preview.
  6. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,838
    [​IMG]
    Drifblim (M) @ Flight Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Acrobatics
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Substitute
    - Disable / Destiny Bond

    While it may not be the best spinblocker, Drifblim is still a potent threat on offensive teams. Drifblim is a rather average Pokemon at first glance, with decent offensive stats and great hp thats counteracted by mediocre defenses, but there is one thing that makes the balloon stand out: Unburden. Unburden doubles Drifblim's Speed stat after its item is used up, and while it let Drifblim use Calm Mind sets to decent effect before, the advent of pokemon Black and White gave Drifblim two new ways to use its ability well, namely a STAB Acrobatics and the introduction of the elemental gems. When combining this new move and item with Drifblim's unburden, the ghost blimp has access to a makeshift 110 BP STAB agility. After the gem is used up, Drifblim can really mess with the opposition, using its newfound speed to Cripple many of the common switch-ins to Flying-types with Will-O-Wisp, which in turn can help another flying-type such as Swellow or Braviary blow past the opposition with their powerful STABs. Drifblim's typing also leaves it packed with tons of resistances and immunities to take advantage of, and quite a few Pokemon will be left with only one move that can hit it, this is where subdisable comes in handy. After a speed boost Drifblim will be able to outspeed all of the aformentioned pokemon that only have one move that can hit it and throw up a substitute, then disable the next turn, forcing them out. This combination is really deadly if you have hazards from a Smeargle or a Pineco set up, because every time you force a switch this way, you are racking up entry hazard damage! If Subdisable doesnt appeal to you, Drifblim can utilize destiny bond over disable to get a surprise KO on any pokemon that dares to knock it out on that turn. Overall, Drifblim is an excellent addition to spikestacking offense teams, and its unique qualities make it a good teammate for almost any offensive pokemon, so has anyone else tried this nigga? Really cool mon imo.
  7. citro

    citro

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2012
    Messages:
    120
    On topic, this RMT made me think about how well Drifblim partners with Swellow as a lategame cleaner. Drifblim has the fantastic ability to lure out all Rock and Steel types (pretty much the only things that can take a hit from Swellow after hazards). From there, it can burn them with Will-O-Wisp and Disable their Rock-type move, forcing them out and making them take another round of Spikes when they come back in. After that there's really not much saving the opponent from a +2 Drifblim or Guts Swellow sweep.

    edit: it also has the obvious advantage of spinblocking the spikes lol
  8. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,262
    Leavanny sounds antimetagame with this set Sword Dance + Baton Pass, can catch unprepared to many people that not know about this tier, can sweep if has chance or just use Baton Pass to another mon with better coverage to sweep the whole team of the opponent =]
    I'm thinking about good temmates, pokemon that can boost the Speed and with a good sinergy are very good options like RP Aggron and Unburden Hitmonlee.
    Also, Carracosta is another cool partner, can setupp in super effective fire attacks and has priority: Acua Jet.

    About Drifblim really I love this set, should be more used, is very fun to play. I prefer Destiny Bond > Disable and probably dont need run max Atk/ Spd. This set with Spikes support is terrible for the opponent. The only thing that I dont like is the weakness to Stealth Rock.
    Unburden Drifblim has a bunch of opportunities.
  9. col49

    col49 what.
    is a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,073
    I like blimp :] Pokemon with Flying STAB in general are very cool imo, as the vast majority of resistances to the moves are both hazard weak and lacking in reliable recovery, meaning that with proper pressure and a little patience many teams will just cave in on themselves trying to beat the 'mon. Drifblim brings all this to the table and then some. In addition to forcing Rock- and Steel-types to come in on it and take hazards damage, it can usually just Will-O-Wisp them coming in, further wearing them down and usually crippling them severely, as they tend to be physically oriented. Moreover, when it's prepped to sweep, not much can stop it. Unburden makes it a huge nuisance for offensive teams, who can't outpace it with a conventional 'mon. Moreover, it isn't even overly priority weak, being immune to Extremespeed, Mach Punch, and Vacuum Wave (from Croagunk ofc.), and having solid enough naturally bulk to shrug off Aqua Jet and Bullet Punch. Sucker Punch can be played around with Will-O-Wisp and Protect, leaving Shadow Sneak as the most "reliable" priority for handling Drifblim, which is really only seen in Spiritomb, Gallade, and Dusknoir I guess.

    As Molk states, it's spin-blocking prowess is rather middling, especially with Kabutops establishing itself as a the premier spinner of RU (though it can just force an attack and DBond for a double down in a pinch :P), and generally not wanting to play games with Cryogonal either. However, the maintenance of hazards is arguably the most important thing for Drifblim to succeed. Smeargle is a natural choice for faster-paced teams wanting to get up hazards quickly, though I've found Ferroseed and Steelix to be a very useful partner for setting up Spikes or Stealth Rock (respectively) on the Rock-, Electric-, and Steel-types Drifblim lures. Employing the concept of Dual Ghosts doesn't hurt either, with Spiritomb picking up some slack in spin-blocking, and even offering Pursuit support for trapping irritating 'mons like Rotom that aren't worn down as well by hazards, yet still keep Drifblim in check. Also double birds is very cool, as mentioned, since one can just wear down their checks for the other to clean up. 'Tops is also nice for keeping SR off the field, while also being useful in the fact that Pokemon like Manetric and Rotom always come in to RK it, allowing you to get off an Aqua Jet and wear them down to the point where they can no longer take an Acrobatics. All in all, blimp is a neat 'mon to work with, I shouldn't be the only one using him :[

    Can't really say much about Leavanny, since I like to use stuff before straight-up theorymonning, but I'll definitely try it out and post about afterwords :P
  10. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,838
    Idk, i havent used leavanny enough to be entirely sure, but its just been complete garbage for me, there are multiple reasons for this which i will further explain in my post. For one thing i feel like Leavanny is simply outclassed by a whole slew of Pokemon in the RU tier, off hand, it has to compete with Scyther, Scolipede, Pinsir, Leafeon, and Sawsbuck. Out of these, at least Scyther can perform the same role leavanny is supposed to, SD bug-type that beats cress+poli and can baton pass. Quite a few people mentioned that Leavanny has the lack of a 4x Stealth Rock weakness over Scyther, but with great Rapid Spinners such as Kabutops and Cryogonal around, i really dont feel like Stealth Rock is as big of a concern as people make it out to be, especially when at least one of the spinners is a great teammate for the mantis. Leavanny's defensive typing isnt really any better than Scyther's overall either, Bug/Grass has some cool resists but really crippling weaknesses like a 4x weakness to both Fire and Flying. Leavanny also suffers from having really poor coverage, Bug/Grass is really terrible offensive coverage tbh, i dont think anything wants to be walled by Moltres and Entei, even if they have Baton Pass. You also lose to a bunch of other Pokemon such as Steelix, Klinklang, Escavalier, Ferroseed, and Amoonguss, all of which pose a significant threat if given a free turn whether it be offensively or defensively. Maybe theres something im missing, idk, its just been horrible for me >_>.
  11. Bigblue

    Bigblue

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    140
    Pulling out an unburden boosted destiny bond on a huge threat unexpectedly is absolutely devastating. It can also work in another way by removing a wall that would allow another pokemon to sweep, or remove a speedy threat allowing another of your pokemon to sweep. This sounds certainly like a pokemon I would throw on any team of mine, but now it's time to test!
  12. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,478
    Drifblim never really survives for long which is why I love to use Destiny Bond on it. You're usually going to be able to take a Pokemon down unless Drifblim somehow dies to residual damage like Toxic. The trouble with Drifblim is that it's hard to get it in safely especially since it's weak to Stealth Rock; it is also slower than most Pokemon on offensive teams before Unburden is activated. Electric-types will usually wall it as well, but Drifblim can take them down with Destiny Bond. However, I'm not sure if Drifblim is really worth using just to take down a Pokemon with Destiny Bond, which is what Drifblim is best at. Most of the time, there are various other Pokemon that can probably fit your team better than Drifblim. If you're dead-set on luring and taking out a certain threat though, I wouldn't ignore Drifblim. It's best used as Molk described. I would consider Drifblim viable in this metagame.

    On a side note, I'd appreciate it if you guys also discussed whether or not a Pokemon is worth using or not (or viable / not viable). I was thinking of color coding the Pokemon in the OP so people know the better threats!
  13. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,596
    who cares about ohkoing cressy with leav, they're never going to stay in on you anyways and if they do stay in on you you deal 75%+ (didnt both to calc but it's a lot) with stab and then get a slow sd passers out to your reciever because you move slower from the para. run lefties, sd pass usually doesn't care about status (except sleep. and there are no sleepers who can do anything to leav. and sd sub pass is good for other guys).

    aero is a solid reciever for leav, so is scarf aggron, so are dragons (scarf gabite in particular seems like an awesome reciever from leav as it has those awesome stabs and can switch in on fire and rock moves). but when you're building a team with quickpass don't try to shove in a reciever which doesn't fit the team synergy, baton pass is an awesome move because it lets you scout the switch and send in the best response. give yourself a couple solid options to pass to depending on the situation without being useless if you can't pull off the pass.

    leav itself looks pretty bad though because it has gaps in its coverage and it doesn't have enough defensive utility to consistently switch in, i can't see why i'd want to use it over a passer sawsbuck or something.
  14. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    651
    [​IMG]

    Levanny can dry pass, but she still has a harder time actually setting up. Leavanny has the easiest time scaring out Water-type Pokemon like Quagsire, Slowking, and Kabutops. I tried to utilize the fourth moveset with Return, as then Leavanny isn't dead weight against Pokemon like Moltres and many Pokemon that resist her STAB combination. Also, Return only hits harder against Fire-type Pokemon, which predominately are Moltres and Entei, and with Stealth Rock on the field they aren't switching in for "free" either. However, with Return Leavanny has a hard time setting up, as then paralysis and burn will outright cripple her; there is two ways to help alleviate this problem, Lum Berry and Substitute. Should Leavanny use Lum Berry then she will lose some offensive power, which she needs. The added benefit, though, is that Leavanny can now set up on Cresselia without fear, and Tangrowth lacking HP Fire. I can't think of any more that would really prove that much better than having Life Orb. Additionally, Life Orb helps Leavanny get the needed 2KOes like Escavalier with SR, Steelix with hazards, and a lot of Pokemon in general. Leavanny does have a lot of power once it has +2 boost, but can't OHKO many things, but can 2KO a lot.

    Substitute is also a good move, as then it lets Leavanny avoid status and set up with much more ease. It also lets Leavanny set up a buffer on a switch, and Leavanny can't take too many neutral hits, so the Substitutes aren't detracting too much from her bulk.
  15. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,478
    For future reference, I'll announce when the new week starts. It most likely won't be every 7 days like it was this week. And as a reminder, try to include if you think a Pokemon is worth using or not if you've used it. For week 1, I've decided that Leavanny was not worth using due to certain posts (it's outclassed by Sawsbuck xD) and Drifblim is worth using. Since I didn't ask you guys this at the beginning of the week, you can still ask for this to be changed if you want. Anyways, I'm going to steal the first mon of week 2!

    [​IMG]
    Eelektross

    Molk mentioned Eelektross to me last week and I've been using it ever since! Eelektross is an awesome pivot for offensive teams. It's decently bulky with 85 / 80 / 80 defenses and, of course, no weaknesses. Levitate is really good to come in on stuff like Sandslash or Rhydon and hit it with a Giga Drain. Furthermore, between Leftovers and Giga Drain, Eelektross can actually stay healthy for a good part of the match. It can also hit stuff like Escavalier and Steelix with Flamethrower, which is incredibly useful. The best part about Eelektross is its slow Volt Switch, which gives offensive teams the opportunity to get frail sweepers such as Zangoose or Durant in safely. Offensive teams also appreciate paralysis support, which is a good fourth move on Eelektross, but it can be replaced with Thunderbolt or whatever you feel like such as Acid Spray. Eelektross has amazing coverage so you can really surprise your opponents since it's not that popular at the moment. This Pokemon is definitely worth using imo. People will usually expect Coil or physical sets, but this is the best one at the moment; here's what I've been using:

    Eelektross (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Flamethrower
    - Giga Drain
    - Thunder Wave / Thunderbolt
  16. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,838
    Seismitoad


    [​IMG]
    Seismitoad @ Life Orb / Damp Rock
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Spa / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Rain Dance
    - Hydro Pump / Surf
    - Earth Power
    - Sludge Wave / Stealth Rock

    Seismitoad has been overlooked for quite a while, but its actually pretty good in the RU metagame, especially with its new toys given to it by the new Pokemon games: Stealth Rock and Water Absorb. Seismitoad's stats are pretty good all around, with its HP stat being particularly high at base 105, more than enough to take a few hits. Seismitoad is also gifted with the wonderful Water/Ground typing, having only one weakness while being immune to Electric-type moves (as well as Water-type moves if you're running Water Absorb) and resisting Fire, Poison, Rock, and Steel! Seismitoad's Electric immunity really comes in handy when your using a Rain Dance team thanks to the multiple Electric weaknesses they usually have, and makes it one of the most unique and effective rain sweepers around. Seismitoad is really solid defensively as well, being able to go both physically and specially defensive with its 105/75/75 defenses, resistance to Stealth Rock, ability to set up Stealth Rock for your team, use the rare but invaluable knock off, and hit back rather hard. Examples of Pokemon that Seismitoad can check/counter include Kabutops, Entei, Nidoqueen, Aerodactyl, Slowking, and Klinklang. So what do you guys think of Seismitoad? I personally think its a great mon, one of the best Rain Dance sweepers in the tier, and better than Quagsire in every way (seriously Quagsire sucks lol why is it ru - TROP).
  17. cbt

    cbt last
    is a Pokemon Researcher
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,393
    I certainly agree with Molk, having used Seismitoad for about 100 battles, and when it sets up rain (I have it as a lone rain abuser), it is able to steamroll through teams. Unfortunately, it hates Grass moves of any form, being KOed or hurt if it switches into a random HP Grass or Giga Drain.
  18. fryfrey

    fryfrey

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    169
    I like Eelektross mainly due to the no weakness factor and pretty nice attacking stats for NU (Aside from eh speed). Sure, there are other Pokemon in RU and NU that are bulkier like Cresselia and Gigalith, but their weaknesses and lack of formidable attacking stats from the get-go is what makes them less popular (Eg: Gigalith has a nightmarish 25 base speed and Cresselia has only 75 Base SpA, both of which stats are able to be boosted.) Eelektross on the other hand can pull off sets like Utility Offense and Specs without needing a large amount of support.
  19. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,478
    Seismitoad is a really good Pokemon. I've been using the rain sweeper set that Molk posted which is pretty good on bulky offense. It isn't necessary to use it on a rain team, since it is bulky enough to set up Rain Dance by itself and then hit hard with a STAB Hydro Pump or Earth Power. Seismitoad does well against Kabutops and can set up against other Water-types such as Qwilfish. Sludge Wave surprises Grass-types such as Tangrowth and Sceptile which allows Seismitoad to act as a decent lure to weaken these Pokemon. I used it on a team with QuiverPass Smeargle as well, it was a pretty good recipient since it has good coverage and bulk. Seismitoad can also use a defensive set with Stealth Rock and Water Absorb which isn't half-bad. Overall I think that Seismitoad is a viable Pokemon and is definitely something that people should try out.

    Anyways, if no one else wants to comment on Seismitoad or Eelektross, feel free to post another Pokemon.
  20. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,838
    Lampent

    [​IMG]

    Lampent @ Eviolite
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Flamethrower / Fire Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Pain Split

    [​IMG]
    Lampent @ Eviolite
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Fire Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Memento / Pain Split


    I've been using Lampent on and off for the past three days or so expecting it to be pretty bad, but it's actually performed pretty well for me overall. At first glance, Lampent seems to be completely outclassed by fellow bulky Ghost-types Misdreavus and Rotom, but it has some cool perks that help set it apart, most notably Flash Fire. Using Flash Fire, Lampent can check several Pokemon that no other Ghost-type is capable of walling, such as Magmortar, CB Entei (scout for Stone Edge), and (lol) Typhlosion. Lampent isn't just limited to walling these Fire-types, though, Lampent is perfectly capable of walling multiple other Pokemon in the RU tier such as Escavalier, Klinklang, Durant, Cryogonal (it also spinblocks this, which is yet another perk), Sceptile assuming you can keep Stealth Rock away, and some Lilligant, among other things. Lampent is also surprisingly powerful for a bulky Ghost-type, possessing a base 95 Special Attack stat and the second strongest secondary STAB out of all RU legal Ghost-types in the form of Fire Blast (Golurk's Earthquake is stronger). This same Special Attack stat allows the haunted lamp to pull off offensive sets to decent effect as well, such as an OTR set that can cover the bug weakness that Trick Room teams often have from stacking up on Psychic-types. Lampent is a particularly good choice on hail teams that need a Ghost imo (although the hail damage is annoying ;_;) because of its handy immunities to Fire and Fighting, two types which commonly plague the Ice-types that are almost always on these teams. As well as countering three other big threats to Hail Teams in the form of Durant(unless rock slide), Klinklang, and Escavalier. Sadly, Lampent does come with one, crippling flaw. While its Fire/Ghost typing provides it with a multitude of resistances and immunities (5 resistances and three immunities, most of which are to relevant types is pretty awesome), it also plagues the Lamp with weaknesses to common moves such as Earthquake, Scald, Stone Edge, Stealth Rock, and Night Slash, which means that lampent needs a teammate or two to take these attacks for it to function to its maximum potential. Nonetheless, Lampent's various positive qualities make me think that its a viable threat in the current RU metagame, thoughts?
  21. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    [​IMG]
    Hariyama @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 40 Def / 216 Atk / 252 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    ~ Close Combat
    ~ Bulk Up
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Payback

    Hariyama is a neglected Fighting-type of this tier. People opt for Poliwrath or Gallade when they choose for a bulky Fighting-type, but Hariyama possesses a unique combination of Guts, 120 base Atk, and useful bulk to set itself apart.

    This particular set is designed to absorb all those status that has been flying around recently. With max special defense it can survive 2 STAB Psychic from Cresselia / Uxie, while scoring a 2HKO with +1 Payback. Thus not even the bulkiest Psychic-types can wall this set, making for a powerful wallbreaker. It can survive other powerful special moves such as a Sludge Wave from Nidoqueen, and is also a nice check to Rock-types, such as Kabutops without Waterfall, Aerodactyl, and Aggron. When playing with Hariyama, it had the same feel as the likes of Druddigon and Bouffalant - it can absorb powerful hits and dish them back!
  22. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    651
    [​IMG]
    Hariyama @ Leftovers
    Thick Fat | Careful
    EVs: 12 HP / 244 Def / 252 SpD
    - Force Palm
    - Whirlwind
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Hariyama has a lot of potential, especially with Hail running around. The set that Pocket posted is a great wallbreaker that is indeed similar to Druddigon. Haryiama is similar to Poliwrath as both of them are good defensive Pokemon. Thick Fat is what sells the sumo over Poliwrath, which can handle more physically-inclined hits thanks to its typing. On the other hand, Haryiama can take special attacks with relative ease with Thick Fat.

    A common Pokemon that could overcome the Cresselia + Poliwrath core is Lilligant, which Hariyama puts a full stop to. Sleep Powder is no threat as RestTalk just laughs at the flower lady. Also, the annoying Glaceon can only muster a 3KO with a Choice Specs Blizzard, which is the strongest it'll get. Compared to Poliwrath, which is 2KOed. Basically, if its a special attacker that does not have a SE attack Hariyama can live a hit and [hopefully] paralyze with Force Palm.

    I find Escavalier to be an excellent partner as it can take out the Psychic-types that can easily come in on this set. In return, Hariyama can take an Fire-type attack all day. This set isn't really meant to attack, rather just take punishment and shuffle the opponent's deck. I find Ferroseed and Crustle to be excellent partners in crime. I really like Ferroseed's ability to set up both Stealth Rock and Spikes, whilst having Leech Seed to regain health. Crustle can also set both up and be an offensive presence with Shell Smash. Further down the line, Spiritomb is Hariyama's best friend. First, Spiritomb spinblocks, so the hazards are always down. Second, Spiritomb can punish Psychic-types trying to ruin the party.

    In the end, Hariyama is a bit like the special analog to Poliwrath.

    Edit:

    [​IMG]

    I tested Lampent thinking that it is completely useless; a NFE that isn't really gonna do anything until Shadow Tag is released. I was impressed by the floating lamp. There is a common theme between the Ghost-types with the lack of reliable recovery, and Lampant carries the lamp high with Pain Split. When I was playing with it, I kept thinking it was a dual Electric-type ;-;, but the Fire-type does hurt it due to Stealth Rock. Although it does beat Cryogonal, it loses to Kabutops. Its biggest job--spinblock--isn't done well against the primer Rapid Spinner. But the easy switch-in to a Flare Blitz from Entei is still really sweet. Its ability to scorce Escavalier and Durant is a nice plus, that other Ghost-types can boast about! Lampent is a hybrid in a way between Misdreavus and Spiritomb. It isn't as bulky as Misdreavus but isn't as useful as Spiritomb. Misdreavus has more use on a slower team, and Spiritomb for offense. Lampent is more for balanced teams that need specific bases covered, like spinblock, Fire-type check, Escavalier check, etc.
  23. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,838
    [​IMG]
    Piloswine @ Eviolite
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Icicle Crash / Stone Edge

    Piloswine is one of the most underrated pokemon in the current metagame imo. Almost completely irrelevant in past months, Piloswine has recently entered the spotlight as a unique Stealth Rock setter and blizzard resistance. Eviolite bolsters Piloswine's already good bulk to astronomical levels, giving it the ability to take all kinds of hits at once, super effective or otherwise. Piloswine's incredible bulk makes it rather easy to find a safe time to set up Stealth Rock, which makes it all the more appealing in this role. While Ice/Ground isnt so great defensively, Thick Fat helps compensate for this, neutralizing its weakness to Fire-type attacks as well as giving it a handy resistance to Ice, which makes it an effective Hail check. Using a combination of these two traits Piloswine can check one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the metagame, Nidoqueen, its completely immune to Thunderbolt and has a resistance to Sludge Wave, while Thick Fat cancels out its weakness to Fire Blast, leaving Earth Power as the only common move that can 2HKO even a 252/0 Piloswine. In return Piloswine can smack queen around with either of its STABs, and is capable of picking off a weakened Nidoqueen with a decently strong Ice Shard. While Ice/Ground is poor without Thick Fat defensively, it is amazing offensively, providing Piloswine with almost unresisted coverage in just its STAB moves, and with a solid base 100 Attack, Piloswine is capable of doing major damage to most of the RU tier.
    So what do you all think of Piloswine? Ive been using it for the past month or so and it hasnt disappointed me yet!
  24. col49

    col49 what.
    is a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,073
    Btw I'm reviving this 'cuz it's cool, thanks =)

    [​IMG]
    Kangaskhan (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Scrappy
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Return
    - Drain Punch
    - Sucker Punch

    Since I haven't been trying to hype up Kanga enough already or anything .-. Kangaskan has been, and still is, a painfully underrated Pokemon in RU since I first started using it in November, to the point where I literally the only person using it over the course of a month (if I'm reading usage stats right :x). Either way, Kangaskan is a really effectual Pokemon in the RU metagame. Its respectable combination of bulk and power allow it to take and dish out hits rather well, and its movepool caters to it quite well. The combination of Fake Out and Sucker Punch is enough to keep a variety of frailer Pokemon in check. Fake Out also offers a respectable method of dealing with suicide leads at minimal risk, breaking their Focus Sash with Fake Out and proceeding to KO in the proceeding turn with either Return or Drain Punch (Sucker Punch if you're up against Accelgor). Scrappy is really cool for Kangaskan, granting it perfect 2 move coverage and deterring Pokemon such as Rotom-N from switching in freely. Though Kangaskan isn't the hardest-hitting 'mon around, it can still deal out impressive damage to non-resists quite well, and with good Spikes support Kangaskan can be really dangerous. Kangaskan also has access to some interesting alternatives such as Wish and Focus Punch, and while I have admittedly never used them myself (partially 'cuz LO is so good :<), it would be cool to see if somebody cool take advantage of them in some way ^_^
  25. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,838
    Even though i havent used much Kangaskhan during this meta myself, i can attest to it being a very underrated not just in BW2 RU, but in BW1 RU as well. While Kangaskhan might seem outclassed by fellow Normal-types Tauros and Zangoose at first, it actually has a pretty solid and well defined niche over both of them due to its various positive qualities, most notable of which is Scrappy. While i also frown upon the usage of Fake Out on most Pokemon due to it being easy to advantage of (free switch in for things like tomb and steelix, basically), Kangaskhan makes use of it well when combined with Scrappy. Kangaskhan can revenge kill a fairly large portion of the tier using a combination of Fake Out and Sucker Punch, and it also serves the purpose of stopping Smeargle early game. Thanks to Scrappy, Kangaskhan is one of the few Normal-type Pokemon thats able to reliably get past Spiritomb, as its threatened by both Return and Drain Punch after a small amount of prior damage, and Kangaskhan is bulky enough to take a Sucker Punch in return. While Life Orb Kangaskhan is good, ive also liked using other sets in the past, mainly Choice Band and Subpunch. Choice Band sacrifices Fake Out and a reliable Sucker Punch for a significant amount of power, especially when using Double Edge, which can often mean the difference between a 2HKO and a OHKO given Kangaskhan's only above average Attack Stat. Subpunch Kangaskhan is capable of setting up Substitutes on most of the defensive Pokemon in the tier due to its great Speed stat and good 105/80/80 bulk, but while it can still do significant damage to most offensive Pokemon, Subpunch Kangaskhan often finds itself walled by the likes of Steelix and Tangrowth without some kind of support to take them out, making it a lesser option.

    Overall, i think Kangakhan is definitely worth a shot in the RU tier ^_^, it has a pretty well defined niche and can be quite the pain in the ass when it wants to be, i'd like to see some people use the two sets i mentioned, as well, to see how they do in the current metagame.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)